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MFOTHER
3/2/08 12:42:23PM
did not impress me last night. he gets so much hype on these kinds of boards. YEs he is an impressive fighter, but people were talking about wilson being a chump that was just supposed to further fitch's win record (to get close to or pass r. gracie's)
After last night i dont think he has a chance in hell againts GSP.
Kastro
3/2/08 12:48:45PM
Same here.

I was hoping Fitch would lose, he was rocked in that first round and IMO almost got finished by a relatively unknown fighter like Chris Wilson.

My hats off to Wilson, he showed just how good he can be in the UFC and definitely was a wake up call for Fitch...

Was a boring fight, as was lots of Fitch's other fights.. I remember watching the fight last night thinking to myself "GSP would destroy this go so badly..."

This should silence some of the hype on Fitch, if he was what people say he was he should have had no problems finishing Chris Wilson, instead it had a couple rocky moments for Fitch and went the distance..
MALICE
3/2/08 12:50:36PM
I dont remember anyone calling Wilson a chump.


he gets so much hype on these kinds of boards


What hype are you referring to. He is making a very good name for himself. And what kind of boards are these? Only the biggest group of educated mma fans on the Net.
MFOTHER
3/2/08 12:53:59PM
dont take it personally, although i am new to the boards i agree that these (you) people are the most educated fans...thats why i'm here. and i agree that fitch has had some impressive fights and wins, but on this, and other mma boards people act like he is the only hope for ANYONE beating GSP, which i do not agree with. last night solidified my opinion.
i acctually think serra has a better chance. But thats all it is ...a chance. IMO GSP and Silva will reign over their devisions for a long time.
MALICE
3/2/08 12:59:46PM
No, I dont think Fitch is ready for GSP yet either. But you cant judge Fitch by his performance last night. You count him out because he had a poor showing against a mostly unknown Wilson. Who does that remind me of? Oh...Matt Serra defeating GSP. Are you going to say GSP had one poor showing so he is all hype.

Fitch has things to work on, but count him out, I will not.
MFOTHER
3/2/08 1:06:25PM
still misunderstanding my first post. all im saying (which you apparently are as well) is that fitch isnt ready for GSP. is he a good fighter? of course. do i think he doesnt belong in mma? of course not. my only point was many poeple think he is the only hope for the WW division..................i do not agree.
the only thing i count him out on is a win over the current champ.

i think its similar to franklin.......great fighter, can take out most if not all of the division, except the champ. obviously with franklin it was proved......twice, and fitch (if he got the shot) could surprise us all. but IMO he wont.
Kpro
3/2/08 1:10:08PM
Yeah, because there are so many fighters who have fought 8 times in the UFC and their worst showing was a Win.

MALICE
3/2/08 1:16:35PM

Posted by MFOTHER

did not impress me last night. he gets so much hype on these kinds of boards. YEs he is an impressive fighter, but people were talking about wilson being a chump that was just supposed to further fitch's win record (to get close to or pass r. gracie's)
After last night i dont think he has a chance in hell againts GSP.



Nothing misunderstood here. I think I commented on your ORIGINAL post.

Hype - yup. commented on it.
Chump - yup. commented on it.
no chance in hell - yup. commented on it.


my only point was many people think he is the only hope for the WW division..................i do not agree


I do not agree with that comment either. Because it is ridiculous, and I have never seen anyone post it. To think that Fitch is the only hope is foolish. The WW division has always been stacked, and there are always multiple fighters lined up for a title shot, that is why I don't believe anyone thinks Fitch is the only hope.
MFOTHER
3/2/08 1:22:10PM
this kid is pissed!


its all good man, i respect your opinion.........and fitch for that matter.
Kpro
3/2/08 1:24:38PM
Yeah, with the way Serra could barely muster a Split Decision to win the TUF 4 finale over Lytle, he has no shot at hanging with GSP for one round for the title.

Oh wait, you mean he beat him?
Kpro
3/2/08 1:25:40PM
So you're saying we can't judge a fighters future performance based on their last fight?


Hmm, I guess that does make sense.
MFOTHER
3/2/08 1:30:41PM

Posted by xxMALICExx


Posted by MFOTHER

did not impress me last night. he gets so much hype on these kinds of boards. YEs he is an impressive fighter, but people were talking about wilson being a chump that was just supposed to further fitch's win record (to get close to or pass r. gracie's)
After last night i dont think he has a chance in hell againts GSP.



Nothing misunderstood here. I think I commented on your ORIGINAL post.

Hype - yup. commented on it.
Chump - yup. commented on it.
no chance in hell - yup. commented on it.


my only point was many people think he is the only hope for the WW division..................i do not agree


I do not agree with that comment either. Because it is ridiculous, and I have never seen anyone post it. To think that Fitch is the only hope is foolish. The WW division has always been stacked, and there are always multiple fighters lined up for a title shot, that is why I don't believe anyone thinks Fitch is the only hope.




you have so many more posts than me and you've never seen somone say fitch is GSP's only competition?..........IT HAS BEEN SAID...more than once. if i cared enough i would look it up.

i dont want this to be a back and forth argument post........ we agree GSP would/will beat fitch ....other than that io said i respected your opinions
its all good.
warglory
3/2/08 2:34:39PM
Fitch is the only fighter other than Royce Gracie to win 8 fights in a row in the UFC, and Royce's were multiple fights in the same night against inferior opponents. Fitch has garnered his 8-0 record in a modern UFC, where the competition is more fierce than it has ever been. Not only does Fitch have an undefeated record in the UFC, but he DOMINATES his opponents. Save for a few tight chokes here and there, Fitch has never been in danger of losing a fight, last night's included. Was Fitch rocked early on? Yeah, but so what? That just goes to show that the man can take a punch and keep on clockin.

I will say it here, Jon Fitch is the best competition in the welterweight division right now and will most likely receive a title shot against whomever wins the upcoming title fight. I will also be the first in line to place some money on my man Fitch, because if its him vs GSP, I have a big chance of winning a bunch of cash.

How anyone can deny the skill, power and endurance of Jon Fitch is beyond me. The man has earned his just deserves and will be UFC champion in 2008.
iwannabesedated
3/2/08 3:20:19PM

Posted by warglory

Fitch is the only fighter other than Royce Gracie to win 8 fights in a row in the UFC, and Royce's were multiple fights in the same night against inferior opponents. Fitch has garnered his 8-0 record in a modern UFC, where the competition is more fierce than it has ever been. Not only does Fitch have an undefeated record in the UFC, but he DOMINATES his opponents. Save for a few tight chokes here and there, Fitch has never been in danger of losing a fight, last night's included. Was Fitch rocked early on? Yeah, but so what? That just goes to show that the man can take a punch and keep on clockin.

I will say it here, Jon Fitch is the best competition in the welterweight division right now and will most likely receive a title shot against whomever wins the upcoming title fight. I will also be the first in line to place some money on my man Fitch, because if its him vs GSP, I have a big chance of winning a bunch of cash.

How anyone can deny the skill, power and endurance of Jon Fitch is beyond me. The man has earned his just deserves and will be UFC champion in 2008.






Right On
DevonFoxy
3/2/08 3:34:22PM

Posted by warglory

Fitch is the only fighter other than Royce Gracie to win 8 fights in a row in the UFC, and Royce's were multiple fights in the same night against inferior opponents. Fitch has garnered his 8-0 record in a modern UFC, where the competition is more fierce than it has ever been. Not only does Fitch have an undefeated record in the UFC, but he DOMINATES his opponents. Save for a few tight chokes here and there, Fitch has never been in danger of losing a fight, last night's included. Was Fitch rocked early on? Yeah, but so what? That just goes to show that the man can take a punch and keep on clockin.

I will say it here, Jon Fitch is the best competition in the welterweight division right now and will most likely receive a title shot against whomever wins the upcoming title fight. I will also be the first in line to place some money on my man Fitch, because if its him vs GSP, I have a big chance of winning a bunch of cash.

How anyone can deny the skill, power and endurance of Jon Fitch is beyond me. The man has earned his just deserves and will be UFC champion in 2008.



I agree Fitch is the man standing on top of the stacked mountain of WW staring up at the title. I always think of Fitch as Koscheck with better stand up but worse wrestling and more aggression.

I really hope Fitch practices his take down D with Koscheck because if he does he will have a great chance at beating GSP along with watching the kicks of GSP he has a chance of dethroning the great GSP.Has the weapons to just hoping he doesn't get too confident standing and focuses on putting GSP on his back and keeping him there. We will see though.
keith-hackney1
3/2/08 4:00:46PM
Sorry fitch fans, the guy is over hyped, davis would smash him !!!
warglory
3/2/08 4:24:32PM

Posted by keith-hackney1

Sorry fitch fans, the guy is over hyped, davis would smash him !!!



Marcus Davis is a damn good fighter, but he has never faced anyone at the caliber of Jon Fitch. Does he have better stand up than Fitch? I would say yes, but Fitch's wrestling is far superior and once he got into a clinch with Davis, I don't see Fitch having any difficulties taking Davis down, and once that happened, I highly doubt Fitch would have any problems having his way. Fitch would just need to stay inside of Davis' punching power since his dirty boxing and clinch are not his strong suit as an American style boxer.
cj_striker
3/2/08 5:45:01PM
completely agree with warglory on his first and second posts. he took the words right out of my mouth.
gartface
3/2/08 5:59:14PM

Posted by warglory


Posted by keith-hackney1

Sorry fitch fans, the guy is over hyped, davis would smash him !!!



Marcus Davis is a damn good fighter, but he has never faced anyone at the caliber of Jon Fitch. Does he have better stand up than Fitch? I would say yes, but Fitch's wrestling is far superior and once he got into a clinch with Davis, I don't see Fitch having any difficulties taking Davis down, and once that happened, I highly doubt Fitch would have any problems having his way. Fitch would just need to stay inside of Davis' punching power since his dirty boxing and clinch are not his strong suit as an American style boxer.



In the same way you could say that Fitch hasn't fought the caliber of fighter Marcus Davis is.
warglory
3/2/08 6:02:00PM

Posted by gartface


Posted by warglory


Posted by keith-hackney1

Sorry fitch fans, the guy is over hyped, davis would smash him !!!



Marcus Davis is a damn good fighter, but he has never faced anyone at the caliber of Jon Fitch. Does he have better stand up than Fitch? I would say yes, but Fitch's wrestling is far superior and once he got into a clinch with Davis, I don't see Fitch having any difficulties taking Davis down, and once that happened, I highly doubt Fitch would have any problems having his way. Fitch would just need to stay inside of Davis' punching power since his dirty boxing and clinch are not his strong suit as an American style boxer.



In the same way you could say that Fitch hasn't fought the caliber of fighter Marcus Davis is.



Touche, but you have to admit that Fitch deserves the title shot much more than Davis does, or anyone else for that matter in this division. Though I would like to see Davis vs. Fitch as a fan.
Beardotheweirdo
3/2/08 6:02:33PM
It's got to be hard to motivate yourself to train for a fight against a guy who you should easily dominate. Fitch had a lot of pressure on himself to perform well. All it takes is one mistake in mma, Ficth made sure that he didn't make that mistake last night. Wilson has skills and if Fitch lost that fight, people would be calling him a scrub and his title-shot would be out the window.

And for Wilson, he had no pressure on him, because he had nothing to lose, EVERYONE expected him to get his ass kicked. That is a big advantage.

There are 100's of factors that affect the outcome of a fight.

I'm pretty sure Ficth will train much harder for his title-shot, when he gets it. It is very common for fighters to come under-prepared when facing lesser competition.

How do you motivate yourself to train at 100% when you only need 75% of your abilities to beat the opponent? You don't, because NO ONE likes pushing themselves 100%. It is human nature to seek the easier route.
MALICE
3/2/08 6:05:28PM

Posted by Beardotheweirdo

It's got to be hard to motivate yourself to train for a fight against a guy who you should easily dominate. Fitch had a lot of pressure on himself to perform well. All it takes is one mistake in mma, Ficth made sure that he didn't make that mistake last night. Wilson has skills and if Fitch lost that fight, people would be calling him a scrub and his title-shot would be out the window.

And for Wilson, he had no pressure on him, because he had nothing to lose, EVERYONE expected him to get his ass kicked. That is a big advantage.

There are 100's of factors that affect the outcome of a fight.

I'm pretty sure Ficth will train much harder for his title-shot, when he gets it. It is very common for fighters to come under-prepared when facing lesser competition.

How do you motivate yourself to train at 100% when you only need 75% of your abilities to beat the opponent? You don't, because NO ONE likes pushing themselves 100%. It is human nature to seek the easier route.



Nicely put.
JimiMak
3/2/08 6:34:26PM

Posted by MFOTHER


the only thing i count him out on is a win over the current champ.



You do realize Matt Serra is the current WW champ, right?
tberg420
3/2/08 6:36:11PM

Posted by Beardotheweirdo

It's got to be hard to motivate yourself to train for a fight against a guy who you should easily dominate. Fitch had a lot of pressure on himself to perform well. All it takes is one mistake in mma, Ficth made sure that he didn't make that mistake last night. Wilson has skills and if Fitch lost that fight, people would be calling him a scrub and his title-shot would be out the window.

And for Wilson, he had no pressure on him, because he had nothing to lose, EVERYONE expected him to get his ass kicked. That is a big advantage.

There are 100's of factors that affect the outcome of a fight.

I'm pretty sure Ficth will train much harder for his title-shot, when he gets it. It is very common for fighters to come under-prepared when facing lesser competition.

How do you motivate yourself to train at 100% when you only need 75% of your abilities to beat the opponent? You don't, because NO ONE likes pushing themselves 100%. It is human nature to seek the easier route.



I think that Fitch's striking game needs work in order for him to move to the next level. As far as Marcus Davis goes, he's overrated big time. He hasn't fought anyone and will get dominated when he fights someone in the Top 15.
NatedawgThaM
3/2/08 6:37:03PM

Posted by MFOTHER

did not impress me last night. he gets so much hype on these kinds of boards. YEs he is an impressive fighter, but people were talking about wilson being a chump that was just supposed to further fitch's win record (to get close to or pass r. gracie's)
After last night i dont think he has a chance in hell againts GSP.



The only people who thought Chris Wilson was a can are not diehard fans. The man trains a Team Quest which is a wrestling powerhouse which is Fitch's strength.

That last sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This was his worst performance by far but didn't he still win? Get off GSP's nuts. Serra proved he's not unstoppable. Fitch has the exact style to beat him. He's a young explosive wrestler with good enough striking training at AKA. He has a better chance then Matt Hughes would ever have on a bad night.

keith-hackney1
3/7/08 5:34:48PM


How do you motivate yourself to train at 100% when you only need 75% of your abilities to beat the opponent? You don't, because NO ONE likes pushing themselves 100%. It is human nature to seek the easier route.


I think that Fitch's striking game needs work in order for him to move to the next level. As far as Marcus Davis goes, he's overrated big time. He hasn't fought anyone and will get dominated when he fights someone in the Top 15.


You will change your mind when davis ko's swick !!!!
Rush
3/7/08 6:27:14PM
Am I the only one finding it funny that people in here are assuming they know the mental state of a fighter while they are training?

Another thing, saying "all a fighter needs to do is practise this and watch that and he will beat so and so" means nothing. Talk is cheap. Doing it is the hard part and not everyone can do everything they need to do.

Fitch is a good fighter with lots of potential. He does not deserve a title shot at this moment. He needs to fight more recognized fighters for his shot to be more legit. I keep saying this, there is a reason why Fitch's competition has stagnated (for the most part) over his last 4 fights.

I can only speculate what that reason(s) might be:
1) The UFC might not think he is the most marketable fighter right now
2) The UFC might think he isn't ready (or Fitch himself might not think he's ready)
3) There are issues with ranking (who came first) with him and Koscheck (and now Swick) or even Karo
4) TUF and Serra's injury have literally screwed up the WW division rankings and title shots.
5) Any combination of the the above


Tailgunner
3/8/08 9:13:03PM

Posted by JimiMak


You do realize Matt Serra is the current WW champ, right?



Not for much longer.........I hope Serra savored being the Champ cause he will never be Champ again come April!
warglory
3/9/08 2:33:12PM

Posted by Rush

Am I the only one finding it funny that people in here are assuming they know the mental state of a fighter while they are training?

Another thing, saying "all a fighter needs to do is practise this and watch that and he will beat so and so" means nothing. Talk is cheap. Doing it is the hard part and not everyone can do everything they need to do.

Fitch is a good fighter with lots of potential. He does not deserve a title shot at this moment. He needs to fight more recognized fighters for his shot to be more legit. I keep saying this, there is a reason why Fitch's competition has stagnated (for the most part) over his last 4 fights.

I can only speculate what that reason(s) might be:
1) The UFC might not think he is the most marketable fighter right now
2) The UFC might think he isn't ready (or Fitch himself might not think he's ready)
3) There are issues with ranking (who came first) with him and Koscheck (and now Swick) or even Karo
4) TUF and Serra's injury have literally screwed up the WW division rankings and title shots.
5) Any combination of the the above





I couldn't disagree more. Fitch is the clear front runner for the next title shot. Fitch has fought and beaten convincingly everyone they have thrown at him (including Sanchez; that split decision was a horrible call on the judge's part). Every opponent he has had has been tough, and not one of his opponents has come close to beating him in the UFC. I really don't understand how so many fans can have such a lack of confidence in him. Everyone else in the division has lost matches in between winning them, including the top dogs in the division like Karo, Sanchez, Davis and Koscheck. The next title fight needs to be Fitch vs. GSP/Serra or I will be immensely disappointed.
Rush
3/9/08 2:58:54PM

Posted by warglory

I couldn't disagree more. Fitch is the clear front runner for the next title shot. Fitch has fought and beaten convincingly everyone they have thrown at him (including Sanchez; that split decision was a horrible call on the judge's part). Every opponent he has had has been tough, and not one of his opponents has come close to beating him in the UFC. I really don't understand how so many fans can have such a lack of confidence in him. Everyone else in the division has lost matches in between winning them, including the top dogs in the division like Karo, Sanchez, Davis and Koscheck. The next title fight needs to be Fitch vs. GSP/Serra or I will be immensely disappointed.




Ok you disagree, but everyone that disagrees with my points has yet to explain why the UFC hasn't given him better fighters. Why is Sanchez the only "ranked" fighter Fitch has fought in 8 UFC fights? I have provided a detailed argument, but all the people that disagree just say that he has beat good fighters and is undefeated.

I'm not doubting that Fitch is a good fighter and potential contender. I just don't think the UFC has created a situation where Fitch deserves a title shot. Right now I see Fitch in a similar position as Nate Marquardt was when he got his title shot. Nate didn't fight any top 10 fighters and got the title shot. Look at what happened. It's easy to say in hind sight "well it ws anderson Silva" but I am sure a lot of people picked Nate to win that fight.

Here was my detailed explanation from another thread (note this was prior to UFC 82)


Larson's record is impressive, but both losses are his only two fights in the UFC. Also notice that with the exception of Burkman (of whom I have not been really impressed lately) Fitch is fighting these guys in
their first or second UFC match. And most of them were 1-2 or 2-1 in the UFC at the time.

If you look at Fitch's record (IMO) he beat some decent guys when he first came. However, the level of his competition has stayed the same for 2.5 years. GSP is a perfect example (And IMO more typical) of a fighter that has progressively better opponents when he keeps winning.

Let's do the comparison

Fitch
-First fight is with Larson. Both guys are pretty new to the UFC so it makes sense.
-Second fight is with Burkman. Burkman is a reasonably decent fighter at the time with a couple wins. Fitch wins again. So far makes sense.
-Third fight is with Alves. Alves had a rocky start, but had just come off two wins. Still makes sense.
- Fourth fight with Hironaka. Fitch has a three fighting winning streak a couple of them decent guys and then they give him Hironaka, who is fighting his first fight in the UFC.
-Fifth fight against Luigi. This was Luigi's 4th fight in the UFC, previously with a 2-1 record. Not really what I would call a step up from Fitch's first or second fights
-Sixth fight against Roan. This was Roan's second fight after a decision win against Rich Clementi. Still not a step up in opponents from Fitch's first or second fights
-Seventh fight. Finally Fitch fights a guy that is top ten (not top 5, top 10). This is the fight Fitch should have had for his Fourth or Fifth fight. Yet, he gets it as his seventh fight after Diego loses. It's a small step up, but I get the hunch that he would not have fought Diego had Diego beat Koscheck and he sure as hell wouldn't have fought Koscheck if Diego won.
-Eighth fight upcoming with Chris Wilson. The guy is 13-3, which is decent, but it's his first fight in the UFC, so you have to take that with a grain of salt.

Now GSP
-First fight is with Karo. A pretty appropriate fight I think considering this was Karo's second fight in the UFC.
-Second fight Jay Hieron. Not a step up in competition, but like Fitch, it was GSP's second UFC fight at the time
-Third fight MAtt Hughes. This fight should not have happen so soon IMO. Sure GSP ran a clinic on Hieron, but I think it was too soon for him to fight Hughes and it showed by GSP losing
-Fourth fight Jason Miller. It was Jason's first fight in the UFC, but Georges was coming off a loss. I still think it would have been better to give George Miller instead of Hughes, but hey.
-Fifth fight Trigg. This is where you can see GSP's level of opponents separate from Fitch's and where I think Fitch's (see above) opponents should have been top ten. GSP fights Trigg, who just came off a title fight loss to Hughes, where he came close to winning the fight
-Sixth fight with Sean Sherk. Three previous fights with the UFC and only loss in career was to Hughes as well as a fight in Pride.
-Seventh fight with BJ Penn. Do I need to actually explain this one?
-Eighth fight was a title shot with the guy many considered to be the most dominant UFC fighter at the time.


So you tell me if there is something wrong here.

Fitch goes 7-0 and is now fighting a guy, who's fighting his first fight in the UFC.
GSP 6-1 and gets a title shot (his second title shot)


I know there is some strange timing issues with respect to title shots, but that doesn't change the fact that Fitch should have been fighting guys of Diego's calibre by the time he was 4-0 in the UFC. He is 7-0 now and still not getting the competition he should be.

The UFC is doing it for a reason. Either they don't think is marketable yet or what, I don't know, but he has not gotten the competition he needs to be a top 5 fighter.
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