Who do you think is the fighter to have Shogun's Number?

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haggiswashere
4/29/10 8:34:16PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by Pookie

I dont think Machida has the power necassary to make shogun abandon his aggressive gameplan. But shogun did prove his power was enough to debilitate machida's base and mobility. He worked his way up, Machida rarely got hit in the face so of course there's not going to be a knockout.

He did get a loss marked in the column, but that means little compared to how effective his gameplan was for countering Lyoto's damn near untoachable style of fighting. In my opinion, Lyoto's way of fighting is not adequate for dealing with powerful leg strikes, and coupled with the fact that Lyoto has never had to deal with them - i dont think he will adapt as well as Shogun. A fighter who's made his name by adapting his game to the styles hes faced.



You don't think that Anderson Silva can help Machida with leg kicks?



I think if he can than he already did going into the first fight.

Also, even though Anderson and Shogun are both muay thai fighters, i think they have completely different styles.



Exactly. Its like saying Muhammed Ali and Mike Tyson are the same for both being boxers. There are different styles,within each style.
CwB
4/29/10 9:02:50PM
Anderson Silva, maybe...
Bones in the future, maybe...

The real person to hold Shoguns number... Cecil Peoples
bjj1605
4/29/10 9:54:19PM
I think Shogun would have a lot of trouble with Randy Couture. And I personally think Randy is finally past his prime. Never the less, shogun had trouble with Coleman who is no where near Randy (as evidenced by their fight.)

I think even at this stage in his career Randy would stick to Shogun like glue and tire him out. In a three round fight I would pick Randy by UD. In a five round fight I would bet anything with anyone that Randy would finish Shogun.
BlueSkiesBurn
4/30/10 12:39:06AM

Exactly. Its like saying Muhammed Ali and Mike Tyson are the same for both being boxers. There are different styles,within each style.


I didn't say that they didn't have different styles. I didn't even allude to that fact. I just said Silva could help Machida with a leg kick. I'm sure Tyson and Ali could help someone with their boxing ability.
sbulldavid
4/30/10 10:43:09AM


Posted by sbulldavid

Shogun Nuthugger Here ! LOL. I still think Machida is his equal, Shogun should have won the first fight but, the crying is over, he's gotta do it again and that is a tough task. Shogun has the best tools in the world, he's the better fighter on the ground, but he'll probably never get it there. He still has to play the guessing game for 5 rounds and he's been dropped often in his career, if Machida drops him it's going to be a short night. A big part of Shogun's game is his finishing skills, but he's going to need to land something solid on Machida's chin first. I think that if he can dominate the same as he did the last fight he will be aggressive enough to get the late KO, but I think that Machida will go in as the slight favorite.




Posted byBlueSkiesBurn

Um, how is Shogun better on the ground? Both are BJJ black belts but Lyoto also trained in Sumo. And were these the shots that you said he needed to land?



The first was partially blocked, the second was all cheek, and the third was more push to the skull.

Shogun is incredibly fast on transitions with his JiuJitsu, and is comfortable throwing submissions and sweeps and turnovers from every position and he's not training in a Gi, that is why I feel his JiuJitsu is better in the Octagon.

SUMO? Big deal, dude has a white diaper in Sumo, does not affect the ground game.

And I did say they were equals
BlueSkiesBurn
4/30/10 2:32:33PM
Sumo is useful in that it's all about positioning and leverage. Combine that with a BJJ black belt and it makes for a more complete ground game. If you think Sumo isn't a big deal then why was Shogun unable to take Machida to the ground? More importantly, why was Tito (with a massive wrestling pedigree) unable to get Machida down?
sbulldavid
4/30/10 3:27:17PM
I'm not talking takedowns, did I not say that Shogun wouldn't get it to the ground, do you read or just speak?

A Sumo wrestler with a good ground game is a losing wrestler.
BlueSkiesBurn
4/30/10 4:00:18PM
I think you're taking this a bit more personally than you really need to be. I did notice that you said he probably won't get it there. I was only addressing the "better on the ground" aspect of your argument, not how it would end up there. If, as you say, Shogun will most likely be unable to get it to the ground, then there's only three possible scenarios that would place the fight on the ground. A.) Shogun lands a punch that puts it there. B.) Machida lands a punch that puts it there, and C.) Machida takes down Shogun.

If either B or C happens then I see Lyoto being able to use his Sumo to, as Pookie said, gain and control his position. That will be a huge advantage for someone in the ground game. Rua received his Black Belt from Nino Schembri who was a part of Black House. He's been doing BJJ since he was 17 and is now 28.

Lyoto began training BJJ at 15 and is now 31. So, aside from the years of additional training Lyoto has had the ability to learn from the same coach as Rua and more in the Nogueira brothers. They might have different styles but it's not as though Lyoto isn't familiar with the style of BJJ that Shogun would employ as a tactic. This is why I think having additional ground skills favors Machida over Rua.
Bloodhound
4/30/10 6:02:51PM
A. Silva Vs Machida would be a snooze fest talk about boring

i think Shogun should do exactly what he did the first fight except be slightly more aggresive when it comes to throwing the hands.

i think if Lyoto wants to win he should try to stay distant from Shogun to avoid leg kicks and when they get close look for the takedown (no disrespect to Lyoto's striking game) and i know Shogun is very good on the ground but i think Lyoto has a better chance to hold position and do some GnP than to stand with Shogun.
lohmann
5/9/10 12:49:30AM
Bump.

(Props to Pookie.)

Can people answer this now?
cmill21
5/9/10 2:00:02AM
No one in the UFC unless Shogun is injured. Shogun is the best at 205 and I hope he fights Andy...he will crush andy to....IMO hahaha
lohmann
5/9/10 2:40:28AM

Posted by cmill21

No one in the UFC unless Shogun is injured. Shogun is the best at 205 and I hope he fights Andy...he will crush andy to....IMO hahaha



I disagree, but if Shogun beat Anderson Silva it would not shock me at all.

Anderson Silva would force Shogun to rely on his hands, much weaker than his kicks, a little too much, and to this point, Silva's been pretty untouchable.
hate4thestate
5/9/10 5:49:04AM
anderson silva?????

silva will get koed against shogun. the only dance silva will be doing in a fight with shogun is the stanky leg, na mean.

the question that i was thinking after the 2nd machida fight was this. was shogun really back to 100% in the first machida fight? (which i think he won) or is he just now back to 100%? or is he still getting better? the shogun that came out tonight was the shogun i remember from pride, not the shogun that has been fighting in the ufc.
BlueSkiesBurn
5/9/10 6:28:35AM
I am a man, I will admit things, Shogun outgunned Machida tonight. Impressive win for him, great knockout, LWH ought to be interesting.
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