Fence grabbing and warnings

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telnights
10/28/10 12:05:51AM
After watching TUF tonight it got me really thinking about fighters grabbing the fence to either stop a take down, get up, or escape a sub. I feel this rule doesn't seam to get nearly enforced as strictly as it should be. As important as TDs are in MMA scoring I don't see why Refs aren't enforcing it more. Like UFC 121 Patrick Cote used the fence to escape a fight ending sub and the ref(Big John) did nothing. I feel at the very least a point should have been taken. Tonight on TUF I watched Sayers get screwed on 3 take downs because Chivitchian grabbed the fence. All the ref did was warn him every time, a total of 5 to 6 times. This also brings up something else warnings seam to have no real meaning. Lets look at the Kongo fight. The ref warned Kongo countless times about grabbing the other fighters shorts but he keep on and on finally the ref took a point but still let Kongo keep doing it over and over again after this. I feel fighters should get one warning after that a point should be taken away and then if they do it again DQ.
kopower
10/28/10 12:18:05AM
That bothered me about the Sayers fight as well, and I agree that only 1 warning should be given before taking a point away. Another possible way to look at it is if a fighter is warned once about grabbing the fence, then grabs it again, the ref could stop the action and award the fighter trying to get the takedown top control or whatever position he would have gained.

Reminds me of pro wrestling when wrestler a is choking wrestler b for 4 seconds and right before the ref gets to 5, he lets go. Technically not cheating
Jackelope
10/28/10 1:53:05AM
I've been stewing on this stuff for a while. The Kongo fight really sent me over the edge.

Warnings serve no purpose if they're not followed by strict and harsh punishment.

That's really all I'm going to say on the subject before I get myself too fired up over it. Sayers had some deep double legs that absolutely would have been takedowns no questions asked if it weren't for the fence grabbing. And don't even think about getting me started on Kongo. Ugh.
BeeR
10/28/10 6:11:57AM
they have many types of steel or wire meshing that is plenty durable and damn near invisible when looking at it from a distance, and the holes are small enough that it would be impossible to grab, I install this stuff all the time and the selling points are "strong, durable, anti climb"
maybe the octagon needs some revamping.


postman
10/28/10 7:56:44AM
I agree something needs to be done but here is my issue with taking a point away as the system stands now..... Its the first round you grab the fence 2 times you are warned once and lose a point on the second mistake. Its now a 10-8. Then you go in and win the next two rounds and the fight ends in a draw do you really deserve to lose the fight cause you grabed the fence which by they way is human instinct? Now I see flaws in the 1/2 point system but if there were 1/2 points I would have less of an issue with a 1/2 point being taken. I think taking a point in a game that each point is so important should only happen when you are clearly breaking the rules and causing damage to the other fighter.
cowcatcher
10/28/10 10:43:39AM
its the human element in sports. that doesnt mean it doesnt suck for the guys on the wrong end of a non-call, but you see it in every sport where you depend on an official for judgment calls. i get mad about it too though, and would like to see something more black and white in the rules rather than leaving it solely to the ref to make a call based on his opinion of whether a point should be taken or not.

i dont hate the idea of a new cage at face value, but if the links are more closed than they are now then people in the audience, and more importantly, the judges will have a tougher time seeing the action. it just wouldnt work.
postman
10/28/10 10:47:24AM
He is claiming that you will be able to see better
cowcatcher
10/28/10 10:50:38AM
i didnt read carefully enough i guess. i dont see how that could be, but im no f'n fence expert so he might be right.
FlashyG
10/28/10 12:10:26PM
maybe its time for a Plexiglass Octagon?

kopower
10/28/10 1:50:01PM
I say electrify the cage, and when a fighter is grabbing the fence, hit a button and give him a little old school shock treatment
mrsmiley
10/28/10 2:59:15PM


I would like to see yellow cards implemented for obsessive cage grabbing.
cowcatcher
10/28/10 3:04:21PM

Posted by kopower

I say electrify the cage, and when a fighter is grabbing the fence, hit a button and give him a little old school shock treatment



somewhere bob meyrowitz is smiling.
jae_1833
10/28/10 3:40:30PM
My opinion is that there are several possible solutions to the problem out there and that the issue should be looked into by the UFC themselves. The UFC has so much power when it comes to shaping the future of this sport it's ridiculous....they already pretty much established the "Unified rules of MMA" for things like stomps, elbows and knees.....I bet if they used TUF for experimenting with ideas like yellow cards, referee pauses and positioning, or even plexi glass octogans they could figure out some very viable solutions to all the problems they have.....there are several other issues (poor referee calls, poor judging, etc...)
postman
10/28/10 4:24:52PM

Posted by FlashyG

maybe its time for a Plexiglass Octagon?




I like that Idea to be honest then putting your hand on the wall would be fine. I kinda find it funny that there is no problem with using the cage to help execute a takedown but we want to take a point for using it to stop at takedown.
JimiMak
10/28/10 6:05:19PM

Posted by postman



I kinda find it funny that there is no problem with using the cage to help execute a takedown but we want to take a point for using it to stop at takedown.



Exactly. The cage is a weapon that is allowed to be used in matches... I'm not trying to say we should allow grabbing, but that's what sucks about the cage, it shouldn't be used in the ways it is currently so I guess it kinda balances things a bit. This is why the ring, or even better the open mat, is a far better environment to hold a fight... but, alas, that argument is done.

Also excessively taking points to the point that it starts deciding matches often would be horrible. Sports have to decide that certain infractions need to be dealt w/ the way grabbing currently is... just like penalties in football. Everyone knows that holding isn't going to stop, and we all know that if you look hard enuf there is holding on every play probably from both sides, so it is dealt w/ somewhat and allowed to go on somewhat but they don't deal w/ it in a way that usually makes a huge difference in the outcome of the game (at least no one penalty has that much impact most of the time). I don't think most ppl want 2-3 fights on every card decided by minor infractions. And there aren't a lot of ways to penalize someone in a fight w/o directly effecting the outcome of the fight. (personally i like the idea of fining after the fight but think that would go over like a lead balloon)
BeeR
10/28/10 8:01:13PM
a plexiglass octagon would smear with sweat and nobody would be able to see, like I said, there are plenty of different types of wire meshing that viewing friendly
Jackelope
10/28/10 9:05:13PM

Posted by BeeR

a plexiglass octagon would smear with sweat and nobody would be able to see, like I said, there are plenty of different types of wire meshing that viewing friendly



Can you see through them equally as well at varying distances? Like say 5 feet away. Are they easy to see through even that close?
mrsmiley
10/28/10 9:29:27PM

Posted by BeeR

a plexiglass octagon would smear with sweat and nobody would be able to see, like I said, there are plenty of different types of wire meshing that viewing friendly



That's part of the reason why the voted against using a pexiglass cage for the first UFC event. Their was also a refelction problem involving the camera's as well.
BustedKnuckle
10/28/10 9:32:59PM
They're a lot of what I will call "grey" rules in MMA. Striking to the back of the head, holding the fence/shorts, Groins shots, Loss of mouth piece. ETC. MMA relies heavily on the referee to make "judgement" calls. And every ref is different. Hell every ref's "TKO" is called a bit different! I dont really see a quick way around it. Time will make for better refs and judges!! Just give it more time to evolve as a sport and the rules will catch up to the hype!!
BeeR
11/1/10 6:26:25AM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by BeeR

a plexiglass octagon would smear with sweat and nobody would be able to see, like I said, there are plenty of different types of wire meshing that viewing friendly



Can you see through them equally as well at varying distances? Like say 5 feet away. Are they easy to see through even that close?




the further you get the more it blends in to what you're viewing, same as the meshing at a hockey game, you know its there, but when you're staring through it its damn near transparent, if you unfocus your eyes and try to look AT it, you'll see it, if you look through it, its not even there
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