How would you Describe Fedors Career?

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POLL: How would you describe Fedors Career?
Overhyped 45% (13)
As advertised 55% (16)
prophecy033
7/31/11 2:29:05PM
A lot of discussion is going on about the validity of Fedors opponents. Some say he fought legends of the sport and beat them, others say that he fought cans and beat them. I wanna see were the majority of you stand on the Last Emperor
jjeans
7/31/11 2:36:52PM
Woah, where's the middle ground? When he fought the best and won he was the best then he didn't fight tough compeition for a lengthy period of time and that hurt his reputation...

I believe if any diehard unbiased MMA fan has an opinon then well there not what I just said
sbulldavid
7/31/11 2:52:52PM
I think Fedor made several bad career choices. I don't think he ever ducked anybody but I do believe he's hung on too long. It's been obvious for a while that he has been relying on loading up that right hand. What everybody loved about Fedor was that he was the last great champion to be the guy next door, that guy that didn't dominate but managed to find a way to win. I think he lost his fire a few years back and this was inevitable.
mrsmiley
7/31/11 2:52:55PM
See Telenights post on the other thread. Pretty much sums it up.
Fedor was the best for close,but not quiet a whole decade but his questionable management has left his legacy at its close a little tarnished. Yet,even after the collapse of Pride he still managed to fight a good amount of top 10 competition before having his first legitimate loss.
PJ Penn,Frank Mir,and GSP all at one time aknowledged he was the best fighter on the planet but with the invetiable turning of time these things change and a lot of fans ushered in through the Ultimate Fighter can now only look at things with modern eyes and wonder what all the hype was about. Granted not all of them are new fans,but even old school fans that are not proponnents of Fedor still seem to at least know what he was for his time. The best.
pmoney
7/31/11 3:24:45PM

Posted by mrsmiley

See Telenights post on the other thread. Pretty much sums it up.
Fedor was the best for close,but not quiet a whole decade but his questionable management has left his legacy at its close a little tarnished. Yet,even after the collapse of Pride he still managed to fight a good amount of top 10 competition before having his first legitimate loss.
PJ Penn,Frank Mir,and GSP all at one time aknowledged he was the best fighter on the planet but with the invetiable turning of time these things change and a lot of fans ushered in through the Ultimate Fighter can now only look at things with modern eyes and wonder what all the hype was about. Granted not all of them are new fans,but even old school fans that are not proponnents of Fedor still seem to at least know what he was for his time. The best.



I agree with mrsmiley, both in his reference to Telnights post (I believe in the "I apologize to everyone" thread), and his own comments.

I would describe Fedor's career with one word. Legendary. If he were to have done what he did in the UFC's early days, I don't think anyone would have a disparaging word towards his legacy.

And let's not forget.... Big Nog was champ in the UFC. After Fedor beat him. Granted, interim... Rampage KO'ed Chuck and took his title. Anderson Silva, who's Pride FC record is 3-2, is currently 13-0 in the UFC, and is now regarded as one of, if not the, best mixed martial artists on the planet. So I think that says something about Pride.

Every organization has their contenders. Someday, Cain Velasquez will not be the UFC HW champ anymore. Be it 5 months or 5 or 10 years from now. Will people be saying he was a can crusher, and that he was never **** because he beat Brad Morris, Jake O'Brien, Denis Stojnic and a Big Nog that had been defeated multiple times by Fedor, on the way to his belt?
telnights
7/31/11 3:34:46PM
I will move my post over here because I'm not sure how much longer I will keep the other topic open if it keeps spinning the way it is.

It amazes how unwilling some people are to look up or try to understand history of things. With that said to understand why fans love Fedor you have to understand what Fedor did in Pride in it's heyday. Was Fedor the best HW in the world? Yes, he clearly was, he fought the best of the best from 2002 to 2005.

All the fighters below Fedor fought from the years above and all these guys where ranked in the top 10 in the years he fought them. Some of them were even ranked in the top P4P list.

Semmy Schilt
Heath Herring
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira x2
Kazuyuki Fujita
Mark Coleman
Kevin Randleman
Mirko Filipovic

Also below I pulled some rankings I could find from the years above.

HEAVYWEIGHT 2002
1. Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira
2. Josh Barnett
3. Heath Herring
4. Randy Couture
5. Pedro Rizzo
6. Mark Coleman
7. Ricco Rodriguez
8. Igor Vovchanchyn
9. Mario Sperry
10.Semmy Schilt

Heavyweight 2003
1) Fedor Emelianenko
2) Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
3) Josh Barnett
4) Mirko Filipovic
5) Tim Sylvia
6) Andrei Arlovski
7) Heath Herring
8) Mark Coleman
9) Wesley Correira
10) Travis Wiuff

Heavyweight 2004
1. Emelianeko Fedor
2. Minotauro Nogueira
3. Tim Sylvia
4. Josh Barnett
5. Mirko Cro Cop
6. Andrei Arlovksi
7. Heath Herring
8. Pedro Rizzo
9. Semmy Schilt
10.Frank Mir

He also fought and beat both Andrei Arlovski ( who was ranked 2nd at time of fight) and Tim Sylvia ( who was ranked 3rd at time of fight). Now I don't think anyone can name one HW that has beat that many top 10s and went undefeated the hole time. You add that with the fact he was undersized and you have the greatest HW ever.

Now I think what hurt Fedor's image was the freak show fights and his management seemingly avoiding the UFC. Did he fight some cans in his time? Yes, but does that really take away from what he did back in the day? I don't think so.
kingsmasher
7/31/11 3:39:23PM
Well I do think 30 -0 run is impressive against anyone...to not get caught is impressive for that number of years but IMO go watch the fight he had with Arona...He didnt win that IMO...

but I question this...I am sure he was told by anyone who knows how he was considered the best of all time....Now if you are the best of all time...Do you not owe it to your fans and yourself to test yourself against the best in the world..I think he could have made it happen...Instead people tlike Werdum and Silva were honored to fight who many considered the greatest of all time...WHy were they honored? So they could also test themselves..


Im sorry but I have not Seen GSP, Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, jeez Shogun, Aldo or Dominic Cruz who through fighting are the best....Or even Nick Diaz....not make fights happen.Nick comoing to the UFC...Melendez wants to fight Edgar or whoever...You can bet Askren wants to fight GSP...I mean when fans were crying for Fedor to take on Brock...HIS OWN LEGIONS OF FANS..so he could show he was the best...he basically ignored anyone and everyone based on what? I would like to hear your opinions on that...

I play a little chess...now if I go play 30 matches against subpar talent does that make me the best of all time...No it makes me Great against subpar talent...a legend among friends but if I go into competitions..and get slaughtered at my first match...does it make me not good...no just not that good amongst people who take it just as serious as I do and even more...

And personally I dont want to bash anyone here and defintiely not fighters...but look...I think its a bit ridiculous to get all up in arms especially when fighters bash each other...what is the difference it basically a matter of opinion?


Chael_Sonnen
7/31/11 3:51:49PM
4-3 in the states
Poor_Franklin
7/31/11 4:28:45PM
from someone who was never on the bandwagon

Never been a fan, but never missed a fight. He was amazing. now he's human. Who gives a ****? He's still talented & has dynamite in his hands. KEEP FIGHTING! He's only 34. It's not like he's been getting "Chuck'd" & laid out fight after fight

Fedor has a lot of haters, but from my experiences, I've noticed that most of the people with a lot of haters are actually pretty good at what they do.

Did you hear that arena cheer for him after he lost last night?
No hype there, guys!!!!
Hype causes fans to boo from disappointment after a showing like Fedor had last night. They didn'd do it.




Budgellism
7/31/11 4:50:58PM
He was a great fighter who did a lot for the sport back in the day. Did he always face the very top competition? No. But he still fought some of the best and whether or not those fighters are impressive wins today, they were damn impressive when he earned them. He's a man that should be respected. If you don't, that's cool, but stop spewing the same, negative crap over and over again. That's my issue with this. There are some guys that will try and put down Fedor every single chance they get. Just give it a rest.
warglory
7/31/11 6:17:18PM

Posted by kingsmasher

Well I do think 30 -0 run is impressive against anyone...to not get caught is impressive for that number of years but IMO go watch the fight he had with Arona...He didnt win that IMO...

but I question this...I am sure he was told by anyone who knows how he was considered the best of all time....Now if you are the best of all time...Do you not owe it to your fans and yourself to test yourself against the best in the world..I think he could have made it happen...Instead people tlike Werdum and Silva were honored to fight who many considered the greatest of all time...WHy were they honored? So they could also test themselves..


Im sorry but I have not Seen GSP, Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, jeez Shogun, Aldo or Dominic Cruz who through fighting are the best....Or even Nick Diaz....not make fights happen.Nick comoing to the UFC...Melendez wants to fight Edgar or whoever...You can bet Askren wants to fight GSP...I mean when fans were crying for Fedor to take on Brock...HIS OWN LEGIONS OF FANS..so he could show he was the best...he basically ignored anyone and everyone based on what? I would like to hear your opinions on that...

I play a little chess...now if I go play 30 matches against subpar talent does that make me the best of all time...No it makes me Great against subpar talent...a legend among friends but if I go into competitions..and get slaughtered at my first match...does it make me not good...no just not that good amongst people who take it just as serious as I do and even more...

And personally I dont want to bash anyone here and defintiely not fighters...but look...I think its a bit ridiculous to get all up in arms especially when fighters bash each other...what is the difference it basically a matter of opinion?





You have no idea what you're talking about. All the guys you mentioned with the exception of Askren are in the UFC, and are forced to fight the best whether they want to or not. In addition, Fedor, from the beginning, has fought for different reasons than the vast majority of fighters, and has stuck to his guns, which in the process, meant laying stake and loyalty to the M-1 brand. The decision to stick with M-1 sealed the deal for him in his post-PRIDE career, but you're blatant disregard for his PRIDE days, and even his initial run outside of PRIDE shows that you have NO idea what the mma landscape was like 5-10 years ago. Did Fedor fights cans during his career? Yes, but he also beat CroCop in his prime, Big Nog, Kevin Randleman, Mark Coleman, Mark Hunt (yes, he was on a tear in PRIDE at that time, so this was a good win), Tim Sylvia, Andrei Arlovski, Brett Rogers, Heath Herring, Renato Sobral, Ricardo Arona. Some of these guys you might consider irrelevant to your hindsight way of viewing the sport, but when Fedor beat them, they were top echelon fighters.

This is like saying Igor Vovchanchyn was over-rated because all anyone sees of him now is him getting KO'ed, despite the fact that he was THE most feared striker on the planet 10 years ago in MMA, with not even a close second, or the same for Sakuraba. You disrespect the accomplishments of Fedor by saying his career is over-rated.


kingsmasher
7/31/11 6:42:53PM

Posted by warglory


Posted by kingsmasher

Well I do think 30 -0 run is impressive against anyone...to not get caught is impressive for that number of years but IMO go watch the fight he had with Arona...He didnt win that IMO...

but I question this...I am sure he was told by anyone who knows how he was considered the best of all time....Now if you are the best of all time...Do you not owe it to your fans and yourself to test yourself against the best in the world..I think he could have made it happen...Instead people tlike Werdum and Silva were honored to fight who many considered the greatest of all time...WHy were they honored? So they could also test themselves..


Im sorry but I have not Seen GSP, Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, jeez Shogun, Aldo or Dominic Cruz who through fighting are the best....Or even Nick Diaz....not make fights happen.Nick comoing to the UFC...Melendez wants to fight Edgar or whoever...You can bet Askren wants to fight GSP...I mean when fans were crying for Fedor to take on Brock...HIS OWN LEGIONS OF FANS..so he could show he was the best...he basically ignored anyone and everyone based on what? I would like to hear your opinions on that...

I play a little chess...now if I go play 30 matches against subpar talent does that make me the best of all time...No it makes me Great against subpar talent...a legend among friends but if I go into competitions..and get slaughtered at my first match...does it make me not good...no just not that good amongst people who take it just as serious as I do and even more...

And personally I dont want to bash anyone here and defintiely not fighters...but look...I think its a bit ridiculous to get all up in arms especially when fighters bash each other...what is the difference it basically a matter of opinion?





You have no idea what you're talking about. All the guys you mentioned with the exception of Askren are in the UFC, and are forced to fight the best whether they want to or not. In addition, Fedor, from the beginning, has fought for different reasons than the vast majority of fighters, and has stuck to his guns, which in the process, meant laying stake and loyalty to the M-1 brand. The decision to stick with M-1 sealed the deal for him in his post-PRIDE career, but you're blatant disregard for his PRIDE days, and even his initial run outside of PRIDE shows that you have NO idea what the mma landscape was like 5-10 years ago. Did Fedor fights cans during his career? Yes, but he also beat CroCop in his prime, Big Nog, Kevin Randleman, Mark Coleman, Mark Hunt (yes, he was on a tear in PRIDE at that time, so this was a good win), Tim Sylvia, Andrei Arlovski, Brett Rogers, Heath Herring, Renato Sobral, Ricardo Arona. Some of these guys you might consider irrelevant to your hindsight way of viewing the sport, but when Fedor beat them, they were top echelon fighters.

This is like saying Igor Vovchanchyn was over-rated because all anyone sees of him now is him getting KO'ed, despite the fact that he was THE most feared striker on the planet 10 years ago in MMA, with not even a close second, or the same for Sakuraba. You disrespect the accomplishments of Fedor by saying his career is over-rated.






I have no idea what I am talking about nuff said about Fedor....its all opinions here nothing fact based....except he went 30-0...my argument all along has been if he faced top competition the whole time he would not of went 30-0...I dont care we talk about judging just watch his fight with Arona...if you think he won that well fine I guess he did in Pride rules...Based on him holding onto a guillotine for 5 minutes with Arona Across hiss body...but like I said..

I obviously dont see it so I will not comment on Fedor anymore...
Pookie
7/31/11 6:48:17PM
Rings rules. Not Pride rules. Fedor fought Arona in Rings.
___________
I think in like 10 years or so when they make a MMA videogame with the all-time fighters in their primes(similar to fight night champions with boxing) i think Prime Fedor will have a ranking just as high as Prime Anderson Silva or Prime Gsp. They're the 95+/100 in the sport. And pretty much the only ones.
telnights
7/31/11 7:18:51PM

Posted by kingsmasher
its all opinions here nothing fact based....except he went 30-0...



That's not fully true if you read my post a large part of it is based off facts. Now forget all the other fights and just see that Fedor fought over 10 fights against top 10 fighters at HW without losing. Fact is you cant show me one HW that has done that other than Fedor? Fact is large amount of MMA writers were calling Anderson Silva after just 6 wins in a row over top 10 the top p4p fighter and a legend. Anderson just now hit 11 wins without a loss against top 10 fighters. That should show you how big of accomplishment it was for a small HW to do what he did.

BTW the Arona fight was 2 years before he even started his run in Pride.
grappler0000
7/31/11 7:23:43PM

Posted by kingsmasher

I have no idea what I am talking about nuff said about Fedor....its all opinions here nothing fact based....except he went 30-0...my argument all along has been if he faced top competition the whole time he would not of went 30-0...I dont care we talk about judging just watch his fight with Arona...if you think he won that well fine I guess he did in Pride rules...Based on him holding onto a guillotine for 5 minutes with Arona Across hiss body...but like I said..

I obviously dont see it so I will not comment on Fedor anymore...



If you don't feel he is the GOAT, that's one thing, but you seem to want to discredit his career as a whole. You think it's only fanboys on MMA websites that speak so highly of him? Have you ever listened to what people who work in the industry think or even other fighters? It's not a coincidence that the majority of those folks agree about him. Unless you think you know more about the sport than everyone else, including the very people involved in it. That's called a God Complex, my friend. And trust me, nobody likes that attribute.
ThaAxeMurderer7
7/31/11 7:41:05PM
Legendary.
Pookie
7/31/11 7:41:49PM
I think a fighters career can pretty much be summed up by how well they excel in this dichotomy: Legacy and Legend.

Legacy - This is the facts. The empirical information. The information you would see on ESPN. The details with which to weigh out your opinion. The "Georges St. Pierre".

Legend - This is their impression. The fear. The skill. The subjective inferences we see in their style. The thing that gives weight to the details. The "Beeeejay Penn"


i think Fedor's a top 3 in both Legacy and Legend, but not the most impressive in either.



Legacy - His Legacy is full of accomplishments, and disregarding the luxury of hindsight, his accomplishments are titanic relative to his peers. Even his contemporaries of today(JDS,Brock,Cain) haven't faced the cream of the crop as much, with as much success as he had. Fedor has fought elite competition 18 times in his career, in the context of who is elite at the time of the fight. His record in these fights 14-3-0 (1 NC). The three losses coming in his last three fights. He fought the #2 ranked heavyweight 4 times in his career. Went 4-0.

Legend - His legend goes almost without saying. He outstrikes the best strikers. He dropped almost every fighter he ever fought. He has no fear of submissions. His ground and pound is ridiculous. He embarrassed most of the fighters he fought. He broke fighters mentally in a way that caused his opponents careers to decline after him. His fundamentals are so fundamentally sound, they look awkward. Let that sink in.


And on top of all that, he have the knowledge of how Fedor's career is ending. We don't know who beats Anderson, or Gsp, or Cain, or Junior. But someone will. And then we'll have to hear people praising their self about how they knew the best wasnt really the best the whole time. How they were just overrated. With Fedor we already have that in mind. Who know's how their careers will turn out. The ways they get exposed. What happened to their chin once they started getting hit.


PABLOMAFIOSO
7/31/11 10:57:43PM
I for one think he has the right to be labled legendary for his Pride achievements. In the modern era I fear he is in the same vein as Wanderlei Silva. His glory days are behind him and modern day competition has caught up enough to make him obsolete as a top contender. I doubt whether Fedor is even top 10 nowadays. He is coming off 3 losses from not even top 10 Heavyweight contenders. I would like to see him drop to 205 and make a statement in the UFC.
Patchedup15
7/31/11 11:40:09PM

Posted by sbulldavid

I think Fedor made several bad career choices. I don't think he ever ducked anybody but I do believe he's hung on too long. It's been obvious for a while that he has been relying on loading up that right hand. What everybody loved about Fedor was that he was the last great champion to be the guy next door, that guy that didn't dominate but managed to find a way to win. I think he lost his fire a few years back and this was inevitable.



i agree why he's so lovable in that he can always find a way to win but i think avoiding the ufc is bordering on ducking superior opponents
tn_rebel
8/1/11 1:24:11AM
I love watching Fedor because he always comes to fight. It never seems like he's not ready for a war like some other fighters that have been great (Frank Mir, ect.). Not to mention, he went on one of the best streaks of all time. This is why he is one of the top 10 mma fighters of all time. With that being said, the heavyweight division has always been one of the weakest divisions in mma until now. Mike Tyson and Roy Jones Jr. went on streaks that have been unmatched in their sport as well. Would you consider either one to be the best boxer of all time? Probably not and for the same reasons alot of people don't consider Fedor the best. Whats the difference? Royce Gracie was unbeatable at his time too. Sometimes beating 3 or 4 guys a night; that were sometimes twice his size. He is also in my top 10, but do I think he could do the same in today's UFC. The answer is no. The point being, I appreciate everything Fedor did for the sport, but for whatever reason he took less money per fight to go to Strikeforce instead of coming to the UFC to prove he was the best. I would have loved to see him fight Randy or Brock and it would have probably been the biggest PPV draw of all time. If you think your the best, why would you turn that down?
Pookie
8/1/11 1:34:22AM
Im pretty sure he made more money outside the ufc than what the UFC offered him, considering that M-1 raped affliction and Fedor gets payed through his shares of m-1 also.

And Roy Jones Jr, one of the top 5 best boxers of all time. He was that good.
tn_rebel
8/1/11 1:58:11AM

Posted by Pookie

Im pretty sure he made more money outside the ufc than what the UFC offered him, considering that M-1 raped affliction and Fedor gets payed through his shares of m-1 also.

And Roy Jones Jr, one of the top 5 best boxers of all time. He was that good.



But if Jones had to face hagler, hearns, duran, and sugar in theirs primes do you think he could have went on that streak?
KungFuMaster
8/1/11 2:01:07AM
Some of you have read this post of mine from "Where is the good ship" thread - but I will paste it here as my response to the topic of this thread.

I remember the Last Emperor all too well. It was one of my first ships in which I did 3 deployments. Its crew was one of the finest crews I have ever had the privilege of serving with on-board the Last Emperor. These men would go to great lengths for each other and there is no doubt in my mind each crew member would gladly sacrifice his life to save another.

The voyages on-board the Last Emperor was certainly no vacation cruise. We were bombarded with rogue waves, typhoons, tsunamis and attacks from many other ships. It is amazing a vessel of this stature have withstood the prowess of the seven seas and not to mention the constant bombardment of missiles from much bigger, more modern and stealthier ships. The Last Emperor is neither a war ship nor is it a ship built of armor. It is plain and simple - like that of an 18th century ship with oars and sails and armed with nothing more than a few cannons. Yet, through thick and thin, we have survived all the perilous voyages which nearly took the life of half our crew.

There were times I said my prayers and farewells while getting my raft ready for abandon-ship...Just when all hopes seemed lost, the Last Emperor manages to put up its sail to catch the wind in the nick of time and sail on to safety. Those were dangerous times on-board the Last Emperor, but if I could do it all over again, I would not change a thing.

Long live the Last Emperor. Your crew will always remember you as you are indeed - one of the finest vessels to have ever graced the seas.
Pookie
8/1/11 2:03:20AM
Maybe not, but i bet he would have done better against those 4, than any of those 4 could do (the three others and himself).

The streak isn't what makes him the best. It's what he showed in the matches. Not just the result of those matches.
tn_rebel
8/1/11 2:21:06AM

Posted by Pookie

Im pretty sure he made more money outside the ufc than what the UFC offered him, considering that M-1 raped affliction and Fedor gets payed through his shares of m-1 also.

And Roy Jones Jr, one of the top 5 best boxers of all time. He was that good.



All the good things I just said about Fedor and you still come out swinging? I can't even compliment him without you getting defensive. I can tell he is your favorite fighter and I know we disagree on most subjects but everytime I make a post you ain't got to act like I insulted your mama.
Pookie
8/1/11 3:20:23AM

Posted by tn_rebel


Posted by Pookie

Im pretty sure he made more money outside the ufc than what the UFC offered him, considering that M-1 raped affliction and Fedor gets payed through his shares of m-1 also.

And Roy Jones Jr, one of the top 5 best boxers of all time. He was that good.



All the good things I just said about Fedor and you still come out swinging? I can't even compliment him without you getting defensive. I can tell he is your favorite fighter and I know we disagree on most subjects but everytime I make a post you ain't got to act like I insulted your mama.



I don't see how any of that is defensive. I just stated that fedor got payed more money with m-1 strikeforce, because you made the assertion that he turned down more money. Which isn't the case, to my knowledge.

And you also asked, why would someone turn that down. I answered your question.
tn_rebel
8/1/11 11:53:19AM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by tn_rebel


Posted by Pookie

Im pretty sure he made more money outside the ufc than what the UFC offered him, considering that M-1 raped affliction and Fedor gets payed through his shares of m-1 also.

And Roy Jones Jr, one of the top 5 best boxers of all time. He was that good.



All the good things I just said about Fedor and you still come out swinging? I can't even compliment him without you getting defensive. I can tell he is your favorite fighter and I know we disagree on most subjects but everytime I make a post you ain't got to act like I insulted your mama.



I don't see how any of that is defensive. I just stated that fedor got payed more money with m-1 strikeforce, because you made the assertion that he turned down more money. Which isn't the case, to my knowledge.

And you also asked, why would someone turn that down. I answered your question.



Oh ok. Well I didn't mean turn down the money. I meant turn down the chance to prove your the best.Would Jordan have played in Euro league or did he want to beat Magic in the NBA finals.
grappler0000
8/1/11 11:56:40AM

Posted by tn_rebel

Oh ok. Well I didn't mean turn down the money. I meant turn down the chance to prove your the best.Would Jordan have played in Euro league or did he want to beat Magic in the NBA finals.



That analogy only works if the Euro league were offering a bigger paycheck.
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