Fedor On Time Magazine

MMAPlayground.com » MMA General » General MMA Talk » Fedor On Time Magazine
snakerattle79
7/11/09 5:39:14AM
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1909703,00.html

Imagine a pro quarterback with Peyton Manning's talent playing up in the Canadian Football League instead of the NFL. Or picture Tiger Woods shunning the PGA and all the major championships to star in the second-string Nationwide Tour. It may sound ridiculous, but the fast-growing, wildly popular sport of mixed martial arts (MMA) is grappling with such an unthinkable, uncomfortable scenario.

And it couldn't come at a worse time. Just as the sport's premier league, the Ultimate Fighting Championship, prepares to stage its milestone UFC 100 event in Las Vegas this Saturday — which is expected to attract more than 1 million pay-per-view purchases — the top fighter in the world has no plans to participate. Instead of slugging it out in Sin City, Fedor Emelianenko, 32, will be training in a small Russian mining town 385 miles south of Moscow, preparing for an Aug. 1 pay-per-view fight in Anaheim, Calif., against former UFC champion Josh Barnett. That fight is being co-promoted by M-1 Global, an Amsterdam-based organization in which Fedor has an ownership stake, and Affliction Entertainment, an upstart UFC challenger whose financial backers include Donald Trump and Mark Cuban (Cuban's cable network, HDNet, televises Affliction fights). Why isn't Fedor fighting for the more established brand? "The UFC wants his mind, his soul, his body," says Joost Raimond, chief operating officer for M-1 Global. (See pictures of women's ultimate fighting.)

A former member of the Russian army who possesses an assassin's glare and a face-denting right jab, Emelianenko, the top-ranked heavyweight in the world, is so good he is known simply as "Fedor," according to the World Alliance of Mixed Martial Arts. He has won 30 fights in his career and lost just one, a controversial referee's decision in Japan nine years ago. Fedor has already beaten five former UFC champions, two of them twice. He has finished four of them off in the first round.

"He's the best," says Freddie Roach, a famed fight trainer who has worked with boxing greats Mike Tyson, Oscar de la Hoya, Manny Pacquiao and Fedor's last opponent, Andrei Arlovski, whom Fedor knocked out in three minutes in January. "He's so calm. He sees things happening. If you make a mistake, he'll knock you out. That's the mark of a great fighter."

Not having that great fighter as part of the UFC has been a rare black eye for a promoter that has enjoyed a meteoric rise over the past decade. Led by its irascible president, foul-mouthed ex–aerobics instructor Dana White, the UFC has turned the blood sport from a fringe combination of boxing, wrestling and Taekwondo with a handful of followers into a global spectacle that has come to dominate pay-per-view television. The UFC generated $300 million in pay-per-view revenue in 2008, surpassing both boxing and pro wrestling for the second straight year. According to the UFC, 473 million TV households in more than 60 countries now have access to its programming; that kind of reach was enough to get White and his partners a $1.2 billion offer to sell the UFC about a year ago, which they ultimately turned down, according to White. "And we haven't even scratched the surface," says White, no fan of understatement. "We're still so far from mainstream. I am 100% confident that we are going to be the biggest sport in the world in 10 years." Sure, that's a bit much, but the UFC's hold over mixed martial arts is so complete that most people just call the sport "ultimate fighting." (See photos of boxers fighting their way out of poverty in Thailand.)

According to Fedor, White offered him a UFC deal two years ago. "What they wanted was very rigid," says Fedor, through an interpreter, during a recent interview in New York City, where he had gone to promote the Aug. 1 fight. In conversation, Fedor is serene, but his narrow eyes are piercing, just like those of one of his biggest fans, Russian Prime Minister (and martial-arts practitioner) Vladimir Putin. "The bottom line was that the UFC was a one-sided offer, and you know, that's something that can never be acceptable," he says.

Fedor says White demanded that he fight exclusively with the UFC. Given his stake in his own promotion company, M-1 Global, that would have been a significant sacrifice. Fedor also insists the UFC would have virtually owned him if he won and would have been able to dump him if he lost. "If I was the UFC champion, I would never be able to leave the UFC," Fedor says. "The contract would just keep extending and extending. But if I lost, they could just kick me out of the UFC."

Further complicating matters, Fedor also specializes in another form of martial arts called sambo. This judo-like sport was developed for the Red Army after World War I and is now a Russian pastime. Under White's dictates, says Fedor, he'd have to stay away from sambo. "That's something I do for the pride of my country and is very important to me," says Fedor.

TIME asked White to respond to Fedor's accusations, and he pulled no punches. "Let me put it to you this way. I've done fight contracts with all the best fighters in the world," he said, working his way to the knockout blow. "With big huge superstars — Brock Lesnar, Chuck Liddell, the list goes on and on. Who the f___ is Fedor? Are you serious? The guys who fight for me have a chance to make a lot more money fighting with me than with anybody else. If he signed with us, he'd find his place in history, find out if he really is the best heavyweight in the world. It's all semantics. It's all bulls___." It wasn't the first time White had used fighting words. At a UFC-fight press conference in April, White said, "Fedor is not the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world ... Fedor is at a buffet somewhere in Russia." (Read "Ultimate Fighting's Ultimate Fight.")

So despite growing pressure from ultimate-fighting fans who want White to sign Fedor, it doesn't look like the pair will be doing celebratory vodka shots anytime soon. "Fedor doesn't make or break my business one way or the other, you know what I mean?" says White. "The reality is, I don't need Fedor." Still, over the long term, the Fedor-White standoff could leave mixed martial arts much like pro boxing, decimated by warring promoters and fighters, with talent spread across too many divisions for followers to keep count. After all, no sport can keep rolling in the dough if fans keep feeling shortchanged.

Kpro
7/11/09 5:45:20AM

Posted by snakerattle79

"The reality is, I don't need Fedor."




So very very true. It's up to Fedor's management to cave in, if it ever happens, not the UFC.
snakerattle79
7/11/09 10:42:07AM

Posted by Kpro


Posted by snakerattle79

"The reality is, I don't need Fedor."




So very very true. It's up to Fedor's management to cave in, if it ever happens, not the UFC.



No its the UFC that has to cave in cause Fedor is the Tiger Woods,Jordan,Gretzky of MMA, Fedor is an intelligent guy who plays chess and loves his National Sport(sambo) and his Country, being in the UFC he wont be able to fulfill these endeavors and besides he doesnt need more money in his life cause he lives a very humble and modest life Fedor's legacy is fixed winning more fights in the future is just a bonus, so its illogical for him wanting to go to the UFC just because he wants to prove himself , he did already in the Biggest MMA Org in the world in PRIDE
John_Jobber
7/11/09 12:14:18PM

Posted by snakerattle79

TIME asked White to respond to Fedor's accusations, and he pulled no punches. "Let me put it to you this way. I've done fight contracts with all the best fighters in the world," he said, working his way to the knockout blow. "With big huge superstars — Brock Lesnar, Chuck Liddell, the list goes on and on. Who the f___ is Fedor? Are you serious? The guys who fight for me have a chance to make a lot more money fighting with me than with anybody else. If he signed with us, he'd find his place in history, find out if he really is the best heavyweight in the world. It's all semantics. It's all bulls___." It wasn't the first time White had used fighting words. At a UFC-fight press conference in April, White said, "Fedor is not the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world ... Fedor is at a buffet somewhere in Russia." (Read "Ultimate Fighting's Ultimate Fight.")






Dry those tears, Dana. Your attempt to shove fighters down our throats isn't working. You can't decide one fighter is better than another because they are willing to sign with you. The world knows and loves Fedor and there's nothing the UFC can do about that. It only makes Dana look worse that many top trainers and pros all point to Fedor being at the top of the MMA game, while at the same time Dana White is crying and going on about how Fedor ain't sh#t.

Who the **** is Fedor? Are you serious?

Dana White: (crying) "I'm gonna take my league and go home."

The more Dana and the UFC cry over their lack of ability to sign Fedor the worse they look. Fedor has pride and pride is the biggest enemy of any soulless corporate machine like the UFC.

StriderXero
7/11/09 1:46:53PM
I think when it comes to big name fighters like Fedor, they should leave the negotiations to Lorenzo.

Dana talks about how easy it is to sign other top fighters, well those fighters aint Fedor.

The UFC might not need Fedor, but Fedor might not need the UFC to be called by many (including Pro fighters in the UFC) as the greatest of all-time.

Fedor knows the UFC needs him way more.
Playground_Samurai
7/11/09 1:54:14PM

Posted by Kpro


Posted by snakerattle79

"The reality is, I don't need Fedor."




So very very true. It's up to Fedor's management to cave in, if it ever happens, not the UFC.



Everyone else can continue to say what the want, but Kpro is definatly right. UFC will continue to grow and continue to be the #1 MMA organization in the world weather they sign Fedor or not.
Kpro
7/11/09 3:14:42PM

Posted by snakerattle79

not like all these american fighters who loves to party and get wild at bars and discos



Yes. All these American fighters love to party and get wild at discos.

I mean, who wouldn't ?
scobac
7/11/09 8:05:43PM
ill say it, the UFC is a mma MACHINE and they dont need Fedor, he can end his legacy with the ? what could have been. he is a great fighter but if he dosnt have the bag to step into the deadliest lineup in mma then it's his loss not the ufc's. why do people hate on the UFC? do you realize what dana and zuffa have done for mma in the states? and you still ? their buss.? personally im goin with the hot hand and call dana "FightGod".
mrsmiley
7/11/09 8:53:22PM

Posted by StriderXero

I think when it comes to big name fighters like Fedor, they should leave the negotiations to Lorenzo.

Dana talks about how easy it is to sign other top fighters, well those fighters aint Fedor.

The UFC might not need Fedor, but Fedor might not need the UFC to be called by many (including Pro fighters in the UFC) as the greatest of all-time.

Fedor knows the UFC needs him way more.




I agree.

I don't think either one will really need eachother.
Manfred
7/13/09 4:16:18AM
I agree that the UFC doesn't really NEED Fedor.

But I hope for the sake of the future of the sport, Fedor isn't the one to bend.
His main problem isn't Sambo, it's the champions' clause.

Maybe it made sense back when guys walked away with the belt because other orgs could outbid the UFC. But they are the big dog now.

Add to that the continued bullying the UFC is doing (banning established sponsors with little notice, the video game fiasco, threatening to ban a whole camp, requiring sponsors pay 100k, the list goes on) and I'm glad a top fighter is standing up to them.

I want Fedor to smash Brock more than anything right now, but I wonder if him bending to the UFC will hurt the sport in the long term .
TimW001
7/13/09 1:39:02PM
That article was fantastic!
mrsmiley
7/13/09 2:54:23PM

Posted by Manfred

I agree that the UFC doesn't really NEED Fedor.

But I hope for the sake of the future of the sport, Fedor isn't the one to bend.
His main problem isn't Sambo, it's the champions' clause.

Maybe it made sense back when guys walked away with the belt because other orgs could outbid the UFC. But they are the big dog now.

Add to that the continued bullying the UFC is doing (banning established sponsors with little notice, the video game fiasco, threatening to ban a whole camp, requiring sponsors pay 100k, the list goes on) and I'm glad a top fighter is standing up to them.

I want Fedor to smash Brock more than anything right now, but I wonder if him bending to the UFC will hurt the sport in the long term .



I wonder the same thing.


To me,I almost don't want to see him go to the UFC.
Not because I'm affraid as a fan he would lose or anything like that (i'm actually pulling for Barnett!),but because Fedor is growing the rebel aurora about him that is showing fighters you can be famous and sucsussful without having to submit to the powers that be (UFC).
I think that has a healthy impact on the sport.
The UFC needs competition. Not because I want to see them go down or belly up,but because competition brings out the best in a promotion.
I believe that Fedor is a good representation of that.

Even if he goes to the UFC and beats Brock and everyone else, in a funny way I feel like he suffers from any even bigger loss potentialy,in the fact that he folds to the UFC.Unless of course,he's able to negotiate a deal were he compromises nothing,or very little.
That in itself could have a lot of potential.
telnights
7/13/09 3:28:36PM
The UFC doesn't need Fedor at all. I would love to see Fedor fight in the UFC but the UFC will keep growing with out him. Some people seam to think Fedor has some huge drawing power when the truth is he only does to the hardcore fans. Affliction is having problems and it ranges from over paying to having to co-promote M1 just to get Fedor to fight in Affliction. Fedor's management is forcing their own agenda and not Fedor's on these orgs. They are more worried about themselves than they are Fedor. Which will end up hurting Fedor in the long run. People's thinking most of the time is very shortsighted. But if Fedor never fights in the UFC or a cage think about what people will say 20-30 years form now. People will say things like *Fedor could have been the greatest ever but we don't know because he never fought in the UFC or a cage.* and that will just be the Hardcore fans with your avg fans going who is Fedor.
mrsmiley
7/13/09 7:22:56PM

Posted by telnights

The UFC doesn't need Fedor at all. I would love to see Fedor fight in the UFC but the UFC will keep growing with out him. Some people seam to think Fedor has some huge drawing power when the truth is he only does to the hardcore fans. Affliction is having problems and it ranges from over paying to having to co-promote M1 just to get Fedor to fight in Affliction. Fedor's management is forcing their own agenda and not Fedor's on these orgs. They are more worried about themselves than they are Fedor. Which will end up hurting Fedor in the long run. People's thinking most of the time is very shortsighted. But if Fedor never fights in the UFC or a cage think about what people will say 20-30 years form now. People will say things like *Fedor could have been the greatest ever but we don't know because he never fought in the UFC or a cage.* and that will just be the Hardcore fans with your avg fans going who is Fedor.




I would argue though,that view in itself may be very shortsighted.
At least within our own cultural standards of seeing it.


First of all I think we would have to take into account what the UFC may look like in 20-30 years. And we have to consider what historic point of view on the sport will hold the most influence at that time.
We should consider a few possiblities:

1.What if the UFC isn't the most influencial promotion 20-30 years from now?
This may seem like the unthinkable thought,but it should be something to consider.
Chances are this would change most modern thinking of MMA at that point in the future.Or at least their would be some reprocussions from it.
Their is the possiblity that if this were the case,then who fought for which organization in our own time might not seem as important in the future as it does today. Arguably,I would think that possibly a fighters performance,regardless of promotional boundries would mean the most.And you have to add the fact of what opposistion they faced as well.
If the UFC is not the nominant force in MMA 20-30 years into the future,the idea that Fedor was not the greatest because he never fought for them may not be as strongly inforced as it is today.
Their are already critics in our own time that make note of how shallow the HW division in the UFC is as of now (i'm not saying I agree with this,but their are those who say it). If what I proposed above comes to pass,sadly, it may be their point of view that future fans would hold most valid.

2. Cage VS promotion.
Which is most important,or does it really matter?
What if Fedor fought for Strikeforce,as opposed to the UFC? They use a cage as well.If Fedor was sucsussful their or even lost,would the cage play any part in that? I think the question has some valid arguements on both sides,but I believe their is another option that is the more likely the culprit of the "ring sucsuss does not equal cage sucsuss" theory.
I don't know,to me the whole issue of cage VS ring was spawned based on the fact that PRIDE fighters seemed to be less signficant when placed in a cage. I would say looking back on it now that is not necessarily the case that some made it out to be. I think to answer this question we shouldn't look at the PRIDE fighters,but the UFC fighters to understand it.
Lets reverse history for a moment.
What if PRIDE had bought out the UFC?
In the same time period we would have arguably seen the decline of Matt Hughes,Rich Franklin,Chuck Liddell,Tito Ortiz,etc.
I think their would be a lot of people pointing to two reasons. 1.The competition in PRIDE is better 2. These fighters can not transistion their skills as well in a ring as they do a cage.
I find neither point 100% valid,but believe more in the truth that at some point or another every athlete hits their peak.
You can only stay on top so long before the only option is to go down a little,or go down a lot.
I can't say the format set for were you fight doesn't make a difference,but I don't think it's an argument to really make in itself either.
With all this said,I think doubters of Fedor will probably doubt him regardless.To me,the cage argument seems to have only made a small resurgence in face of him facing Sylvia and Arloski (both of whom were ranked top 10 when he fought them).
It seems more like a way of saying those fights only went they way they did in light of those bouts taking place in a ring as opposed to a cage. As if to say Fedor could beat anyone in a ring,but hasn't proved himself until he wins in a a cage.
If he wins in a cage what then?
Would doubters of his face up and admitt he's as good as his fans claim (some of which did after he beat Slyvia)?
Or would they point to another cause that aided Fedor in victory?
Even in light of defeating Arloski,critics made note of the fact that he did not do it in a dominant fashion that was expected of him. Something that seems to be a back handed compliment of sorts.
Some will argue the fact that AA and Sylvia were fefeated by Fedor,but in light of their recent performances something has been taken away from those victories. I would argue most people Fedor fights hit a slump after he defeats them.


3. Being in the biggest promotion doesn't always equal star power.
I agree that in 20-30 years their will be your average fans asking "who is Fedor".
A part of that(more than likely the biggest part of that) will probably be the result of not competing in the UFC.
But I think it's worthy to argue the fact that in 20-30 years their will be casual fans asking who is Antonio Nogueria,Dan Henderson,Keith Jarine,Wanderlei Silva,Tim Sylvia,etc.
I think the average base of average fans only have a few stars that stay with them.
The average fan 20-30 years from now will probably be familar more with their own MMA fighters at the time,and probably not as much with ones from the past. Their will be ones who are remembered for sure,but I doubt Fedor will be the only one forgotten. I would say their are current UFC fighters that are popular today,that won't be remembered as well tomorrow.

4. The truth is in the eye of the beholder,and culture may play the biggest part.
I think a lot of what is said about Fedor may depend on what cultural aspect you look at it from.
I would say that arguably,Fedor's MMA status as a star in Russia or Japan may be larger than what any fighter has achieved in America or the western world. He was(for a time) the limelight of MMA fighters in Japan, where the sport reached a pennacle that it has yet to see anywere else.
He is the face of Sambo in Russia,were it is held in the highest regard. He has been in the company of Vladmir Putin,who is a huge fan of his. He even got to carry the olympic torch.
He hasn't amassed that fame in the US,but I don't know if fans in Russia or Japan really take into consideration what we think here as much as we think they do.
In his home country he's considered a hero,and Fedor seems to take that modestly.
I agree that fans in the US would probably say those things,but I'm not sure if fans world round will feel the same.
Though in defense,you could also argue the fact that in 20-30 years The UFC may grow globably as well,and the opinions your speaking of could even possibly expand.
Their's flaws in everything I said.I wouldn't claim any of that is in itself solid truth,but I think the question is much broader than what we may think.
telnights
7/13/09 8:46:47PM

Posted by mrsmiley
I would argue though,that view in itself may be very shortsighted.
At least within our own cultural standards of seeing it.



Not really....Yes Fedor is big in Japan and Russia but is not very well known in the rest of the world. Unless all of sudden the promotion he is with gets a huge fan base over night he will stay unknown to large portion of MMA fans. Fedor only has a few more years before he cant make an impact anymore.



Posted by mrsmiley
1.What if the UFC isn't the most influencial promotion 20-30 years from now?
This may seem like the unthinkable thought,but it should be something to consider.



Yes I agree but right now with the growth of the UFC and the fact that your avg fan thinks MMA is the UFC this shouldn't be an issue. People seam to think MMA is growing but the truth is it the UFC making MMA grow.


Posted by mrsmiley
2. Cage VS promotion.


and again I will say that your avg North American fan thinks the UFC and the cage is MMA.


Posted by mrsmiley
3. Being in the biggest promotion doesn't always equal star power.



I don't disagree but fact is the UFC does have the star power to back up their promotion. Now the names you named off your avg fan may not know who they are in 20-30 years but they also aren't as good as Fedor is either. Your avg boxing fans don't know a lot of the great fighters of the past but if you say names like Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson they know who they are. Your avg fan in the US considers the UFC the pros of MMA and by doing so not fighting in the UFC makes it look like your not fighting the best no matter how truly good your opponent is.


Posted by mrsmiley
4. The truth is in the eye of the beholder,and culture may play the biggest part.
I think a lot of what is said about Fedor may depend on what cultural aspect you look at it from.



Again I don't disagree but MMA isn't growing in Russia or Japan like it is in North America. In fact in Japan it has lost a lot of its growth. The fact that the UFC is now marketing in China and Mexico should be sign of what direction they are going. As much as some people don't want to admit it the UFC is here to stay and at the rate it is growing now it will be the fully global force in no time at all if it isn't already. Pride even at its greatest time wasn't near as big as the UFC has become.

Now not saying Fedor isn't a great fighter just saying the UFC doesn't need him as badly as he needs them. The direction MMA is going now its looks as if the view of the UFC being the pros will come true and if Fedor doesn't ever fight there to most it will look like he never fought in the Pros. The UFC has all the time in the world right now they have a well known brand name that sales and are opening up in to even bigger markets. The UFC wont age and loss it ability to compete. Time is not on Fedor's side.....

Now dont get me wrong Fedor will always be a legend in Russia. But the world knows who Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson. So you tell me what promotion does Fedor has the best chance of building his legacy with? I think you will find its the UFC.
mrsmiley
7/13/09 10:19:58PM
"Not really....Yes Fedor is big in Japan and Russia but is not very well known in the rest of the world. Unless all of sudden the promotion he is with gets a huge fan base over night he will stay unknown to large portion of MMA fans. Fedor only has a few more years before he cant make an impact anymore"
I think I would argue that he is known more throughout most the world,and his lack of popularity comes mainly from america.
I think his fights with Nogueria,and his fight with Crocop helped cement his popularity outside of Russia and Japan and made his fanbase more broad.
If anything,the massive popularity of fighters like Crocop helped elivate Fedors popularity within a guy like Crocops fanbase.

"Yes I agree but right now with the growth of the UFC and the fact that your avg fan thinks MMA is the UFC this shouldn't be an issue. People seam to think MMA is growing but the truth is it the UFC making MMA grow."

I would agree with you. For better or for worse.

"I don't disagree but fact is the UFC does have the star power to back up their promotion. Now the names you named off your avg fan may not know who they are in 20-30 years but they also aren't as good as Fedor is either. Your avg boxing fans don't know a lot of the great fighters of the past but if you say names like Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson they know who they are. Your avg fan in the US considers the UFC the pros of MMA and by doing so not fighting in the UFC makes it look like your not fighting the best no matter how truly good your opponent is."

I would say that being good or great doesn't equate to star power. I think a good example of this is Kimbo Slice. Slice isn't of the caliber of the higher tier fighters,but promotion alone catapulted him to the status of household name.I would add to the fact I was on gametrailers.com the other day and one forum member pointed out Kimbo Slice lost in the UFC to a guy with pink hair.I once also read a post on sherdog were a guy told a story of how he was talking to another guy he worked with about how good Fedor was.
He then said his fellow co-worker quipped back by asking "If he's so good,why don't he fight Kimbo"?
I think this is were we hit a grey area of also thinking counter productive to what your saying.Their are those that will assume what their watching is UFC soley because the fighter they see has amassed a large amount of popularity. I think based on stories we hear like this,it's also fair to assume that talent doesn't always equal star power. Maybe these stories aren't as common as i'm thining,and their's the possiblity some are a bit exaggerated,but I think most of us have some first hand experince with fans like that as well.
Now Kimbo Slice,you could argue, is an isolated incident of the youtube age,and that under the good graces of God we will never have this type of hype around such an untested individual such as him.
As for Mike Tyson and Ali, I think too,it takes more than just soley skill to reach the status guys like Ali and Tyson have. Skill and raw power absolutley played a role in their popularity,but what really put them at the pennacle of popularity was the same thing that helped put guys like Tiger Woods,Michael Jordan and Tony Hawk reach that as well.
They were able not only to excell at their sport,but were able to break into the modern pop culture of their age.What becomes important in america tends to become important elsewere,and these guys were prime examples of that. MMA has yet to see a fighter who can equal that level of mainstream awareness. I would say that sadly,Kimbo Slice may have been the closet thing yet,but his skill level could not equal the celebrity status he was given.but I think Chuck Liddell came close as well. I would argue that Liddells biggest drawback was that despite the fact he was their during the American big bang of MMA,I think he may have hit his peak before it stayed at the steady pace it is now.
That's arguable for sure,but I think Liddell came around just a bit too early.

"Again I don't disagree but MMA isn't growing in Russia or Japan like it is in North America. In fact in Japan it has lost a lot of its growth. The fact that the UFC is now marketing in China and Mexico should be sign of what direction they are going. As much as some people don't want to admit it the UFC is here to stay and at the rate it is growing now it will be the fully global force in no time at all if it isn't already. Pride even at its greatest time wasn't near as big as the UFC has become.

Now not saying Fedor isn't a great fighter just saying the UFC doesn't need him as badly as he needs them. The direction MMA is going now its looks as if the view of the UFC being the pros will come true and if Fedor doesn't ever fight there to most it will look like he never fought in the Pros. The UFC has all the time in the world right now they have a well known brand name that sales and are opening up in to even bigger markets. The UFC wont age and loss it ability to compete. Time is not on Fedor's side.....

Now dont get me wrong Fedor will always be a legend in Russia. But the world knows who Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson. So you tell me what promotion does Fedor has the best chance of building his legacy with? I think you will find its the UFC. "
I totaly agree that MMA is not growing in Japan or Russia like it is in North America.But I think we need to also take into consideration that MMA in America will at some point,most likely decline. Maybe not as dramatic as it did in Japan,but I think the possibility is their. I'm interested to see how the UFC fairs in countries like China and Mexico.
China has just joined the world of MMA,and already the promotion Art of War has really started to shine. I just wonder if China and Mexico will openly recieve the UFC as much as most of us are hoping,or if they'll attempt to close them off like they said Japan did. But here http://www.mmaplayground.com/forums/topic34006-1.html , Brain Smasher claims Dan has said getting a deal in Mexico is nearly impossible. I'm not sure were the source came from though.
I'm not sure if I can buy into the idea that it will look like Fedor never fought in the pros. I think you have to consider how many champions he dispatched that came from the pro-organization as well.
I think we should also consider the fact that Fedor is very humble,and modest about his posistion in the world of MMA.He seems to keep in touch with what the fans and critics think,but I don't think he's ever made the claim that being considered the best fighter in the world is his primary goal either. He seems to have a very good track record of not really letting his ego get in the way.

Who Does Fedor has his best chance of building his legacy with?
I think this question has more than one dimension to it. Yes,the obvious answer is the UFC. But like I mentioned above,though on his skill set alone,he may get considered with the likes of Ali and Tyson,i'm not sure that the UFC could ever break him into the media awareness guys like Ali are. Certainly he has gained a lot of popularity out of the UFC already amongst the critics and hardcore fans,but I don't know if an American audience will relate to the cold,disattached,demeanor of Fedor.




tomp6581
7/14/09 8:30:19AM
The Major flaw in the UFC argument of "we dont need Fedor" is this ...

The bigger UFC gets, the more mainstream media follow MMA. In turn the media will eventually have more influence on casual fans than the UFC, which in turn will raise more "Why dont you sign Fedor questions"

They give Randy special clauses in his contract, why not Fedor? A contract should be based on a fighters ability, and potential income based around his ability. Nothing else. The UFC should make it their business to go out of their way to sign Fedor.

telnights
7/14/09 3:37:49PM

Posted by mrsmiley

"Not really....Yes Fedor is big in Japan and Russia but is not very well known in the rest of the world. Unless all of sudden the promotion he is with gets a huge fan base over night he will stay unknown to large portion of MMA fans. Fedor only has a few more years before he cant make an impact anymore"
I think I would argue that he is known more throughout most the world,and his lack of popularity comes mainly from america.
I think his fights with Nogueria,and his fight with Crocop helped cement his popularity outside of Russia and Japan and made his fanbase more broad.
If anything,the massive popularity of fighters like Crocop helped elivate Fedors popularity within a guy like Crocops fanbase.

"Yes I agree but right now with the growth of the UFC and the fact that your avg fan thinks MMA is the UFC this shouldn't be an issue. People seam to think MMA is growing but the truth is it the UFC making MMA grow."

I would agree with you. For better or for worse.

"I don't disagree but fact is the UFC does have the star power to back up their promotion. Now the names you named off your avg fan may not know who they are in 20-30 years but they also aren't as good as Fedor is either. Your avg boxing fans don't know a lot of the great fighters of the past but if you say names like Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson they know who they are. Your avg fan in the US considers the UFC the pros of MMA and by doing so not fighting in the UFC makes it look like your not fighting the best no matter how truly good your opponent is."

I would say that being good or great doesn't equate to star power. I think a good example of this is Kimbo Slice. Slice isn't of the caliber of the higher tier fighters,but promotion alone catapulted him to the status of household name.I would add to the fact I was on gametrailers.com the other day and one forum member pointed out Kimbo Slice lost in the UFC to a guy with pink hair.I once also read a post on sherdog were a guy told a story of how he was talking to another guy he worked with about how good Fedor was.
He then said his fellow co-worker quipped back by asking "If he's so good,why don't he fight Kimbo"?
I think this is were we hit a grey area of also thinking counter productive to what your saying.Their are those that will assume what their watching is UFC soley because the fighter they see has amassed a large amount of popularity. I think based on stories we hear like this,it's also fair to assume that talent doesn't always equal star power. Maybe these stories aren't as common as i'm thining,and their's the possiblity some are a bit exaggerated,but I think most of us have some first hand experince with fans like that as well.
Now Kimbo Slice,you could argue, is an isolated incident of the youtube age,and that under the good graces of God we will never have this type of hype around such an untested individual such as him.
As for Mike Tyson and Ali, I think too,it takes more than just soley skill to reach the status guys like Ali and Tyson have. Skill and raw power absolutley played a role in their popularity,but what really put them at the pennacle of popularity was the same thing that helped put guys like Tiger Woods,Michael Jordan and Tony Hawk reach that as well.
They were able not only to excell at their sport,but were able to break into the modern pop culture of their age.What becomes important in america tends to become important elsewere,and these guys were prime examples of that. MMA has yet to see a fighter who can equal that level of mainstream awareness. I would say that sadly,Kimbo Slice may have been the closet thing yet,but his skill level could not equal the celebrity status he was given.but I think Chuck Liddell came close as well. I would argue that Liddells biggest drawback was that despite the fact he was their during the American big bang of MMA,I think he may have hit his peak before it stayed at the steady pace it is now.
That's arguable for sure,but I think Liddell came around just a bit too early.

"Again I don't disagree but MMA isn't growing in Russia or Japan like it is in North America. In fact in Japan it has lost a lot of its growth. The fact that the UFC is now marketing in China and Mexico should be sign of what direction they are going. As much as some people don't want to admit it the UFC is here to stay and at the rate it is growing now it will be the fully global force in no time at all if it isn't already. Pride even at its greatest time wasn't near as big as the UFC has become.

Now not saying Fedor isn't a great fighter just saying the UFC doesn't need him as badly as he needs them. The direction MMA is going now its looks as if the view of the UFC being the pros will come true and if Fedor doesn't ever fight there to most it will look like he never fought in the Pros. The UFC has all the time in the world right now they have a well known brand name that sales and are opening up in to even bigger markets. The UFC wont age and loss it ability to compete. Time is not on Fedor's side.....

Now dont get me wrong Fedor will always be a legend in Russia. But the world knows who Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson. So you tell me what promotion does Fedor has the best chance of building his legacy with? I think you will find its the UFC. "
I totaly agree that MMA is not growing in Japan or Russia like it is in North America.But I think we need to also take into consideration that MMA in America will at some point,most likely decline. Maybe not as dramatic as it did in Japan,but I think the possibility is their. I'm interested to see how the UFC fairs in countries like China and Mexico.
China has just joined the world of MMA,and already the promotion Art of War has really started to shine. I just wonder if China and Mexico will openly recieve the UFC as much as most of us are hoping,or if they'll attempt to close them off like they said Japan did. But here http://www.mmaplayground.com/forums/topic34006-1.html , Brain Smasher claims Dan has said getting a deal in Mexico is nearly impossible. I'm not sure were the source came from though.
I'm not sure if I can buy into the idea that it will look like Fedor never fought in the pros. I think you have to consider how many champions he dispatched that came from the pro-organization as well.
I think we should also consider the fact that Fedor is very humble,and modest about his posistion in the world of MMA.He seems to keep in touch with what the fans and critics think,but I don't think he's ever made the claim that being considered the best fighter in the world is his primary goal either. He seems to have a very good track record of not really letting his ego get in the way.

Who Does Fedor has his best chance of building his legacy with?
I think this question has more than one dimension to it. Yes,the obvious answer is the UFC. But like I mentioned above,though on his skill set alone,he may get considered with the likes of Ali and Tyson,i'm not sure that the UFC could ever break him into the media awareness guys like Ali are. Certainly he has gained a lot of popularity out of the UFC already amongst the critics and hardcore fans,but I don't know if an American audience will relate to the cold,disattached,demeanor of Fedor.



Great post isn't always nice when two people can talk without calling each other names or getting upset because the other person doesn't 100% agree with them. For that I give you props!!!

You make some very good points but I really think if Fedor made it in the UFC and was able to beat the likes of Mir, Lesnar, Carwin, and Randy he would instantly become a MMA legend in the US. I bet if he just beat Lesnar in the way has beat a lot of others it would skyrocket his popularity. The only place this can happen is in the UFC.

Now I agree star power doesn't mean skill but I think there a lot of guys in the UFC that have huge star power and is still growing. They have the skill to back it. Lensar is one and there are a few more. GSP is doing commercial's for the biggest sports drink company in the world. I also agree I'm not sure if the UFC can make him as big as Ali or Tyson but they have much better chance than anyone else. It takes a lot of time to do what the UFC has done in the MMA world and now that they have strong control over the market any other company's chances of competing are very slim at best.

The UFC will keep going with or without Fedor but the company's he has joined don't seam to be able to grow even with him headlining almost every event. This in itself should show that he isn't near as big of a draw as the UFC is or some of their fighters. Now that doesn't mean he isn't a great fighter just means he is unknown to large part of MMA fans. Now I agree it has helped some beating Tim and AA but in the end it may have hurt him even more because of both guys performances as of late. It makes it look like they are washed up. Now he is facing another relative unknown to your avg MMA fan in Barnett. Who is left for him to face after this fight? More unknown's to the avg MMA fans. So it comes down to again who needs who more.

Now on decline and growth of MMA in North America. I agree at some point its popularity will decline but I don't think it ill be to the level that will affect the UFC much. The UFC is playing it smart and targeting the younger people so its fan base will be round for many years and I imagine they will keep targeting younger new fans. There market base keeps getting bigger and bigger as they expand so not only do they have a strong fan base in North America but also the UK and have plans to expand in to almost every possible market.
ncordless
7/14/09 4:27:49PM

Posted by telnights


Posted by mrsmiley

"Not really....Yes Fedor is big in Japan and Russia but is not very well known in the rest of the world. Unless all of sudden the promotion he is with gets a huge fan base over night he will stay unknown to large portion of MMA fans. Fedor only has a few more years before he cant make an impact anymore"
I think I would argue that he is known more throughout most the world,and his lack of popularity comes mainly from america.
I think his fights with Nogueria,and his fight with Crocop helped cement his popularity outside of Russia and Japan and made his fanbase more broad.
If anything,the massive popularity of fighters like Crocop helped elivate Fedors popularity within a guy like Crocops fanbase.

"Yes I agree but right now with the growth of the UFC and the fact that your avg fan thinks MMA is the UFC this shouldn't be an issue. People seam to think MMA is growing but the truth is it the UFC making MMA grow."

I would agree with you. For better or for worse.

"I don't disagree but fact is the UFC does have the star power to back up their promotion. Now the names you named off your avg fan may not know who they are in 20-30 years but they also aren't as good as Fedor is either. Your avg boxing fans don't know a lot of the great fighters of the past but if you say names like Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson they know who they are. Your avg fan in the US considers the UFC the pros of MMA and by doing so not fighting in the UFC makes it look like your not fighting the best no matter how truly good your opponent is."

I would say that being good or great doesn't equate to star power. I think a good example of this is Kimbo Slice. Slice isn't of the caliber of the higher tier fighters,but promotion alone catapulted him to the status of household name.I would add to the fact I was on gametrailers.com the other day and one forum member pointed out Kimbo Slice lost in the UFC to a guy with pink hair.I once also read a post on sherdog were a guy told a story of how he was talking to another guy he worked with about how good Fedor was.
He then said his fellow co-worker quipped back by asking "If he's so good,why don't he fight Kimbo"?
I think this is were we hit a grey area of also thinking counter productive to what your saying.Their are those that will assume what their watching is UFC soley because the fighter they see has amassed a large amount of popularity. I think based on stories we hear like this,it's also fair to assume that talent doesn't always equal star power. Maybe these stories aren't as common as i'm thining,and their's the possiblity some are a bit exaggerated,but I think most of us have some first hand experince with fans like that as well.
Now Kimbo Slice,you could argue, is an isolated incident of the youtube age,and that under the good graces of God we will never have this type of hype around such an untested individual such as him.
As for Mike Tyson and Ali, I think too,it takes more than just soley skill to reach the status guys like Ali and Tyson have. Skill and raw power absolutley played a role in their popularity,but what really put them at the pennacle of popularity was the same thing that helped put guys like Tiger Woods,Michael Jordan and Tony Hawk reach that as well.
They were able not only to excell at their sport,but were able to break into the modern pop culture of their age.What becomes important in america tends to become important elsewere,and these guys were prime examples of that. MMA has yet to see a fighter who can equal that level of mainstream awareness. I would say that sadly,Kimbo Slice may have been the closet thing yet,but his skill level could not equal the celebrity status he was given.but I think Chuck Liddell came close as well. I would argue that Liddells biggest drawback was that despite the fact he was their during the American big bang of MMA,I think he may have hit his peak before it stayed at the steady pace it is now.
That's arguable for sure,but I think Liddell came around just a bit too early.

"Again I don't disagree but MMA isn't growing in Russia or Japan like it is in North America. In fact in Japan it has lost a lot of its growth. The fact that the UFC is now marketing in China and Mexico should be sign of what direction they are going. As much as some people don't want to admit it the UFC is here to stay and at the rate it is growing now it will be the fully global force in no time at all if it isn't already. Pride even at its greatest time wasn't near as big as the UFC has become.

Now not saying Fedor isn't a great fighter just saying the UFC doesn't need him as badly as he needs them. The direction MMA is going now its looks as if the view of the UFC being the pros will come true and if Fedor doesn't ever fight there to most it will look like he never fought in the Pros. The UFC has all the time in the world right now they have a well known brand name that sales and are opening up in to even bigger markets. The UFC wont age and loss it ability to compete. Time is not on Fedor's side.....

Now dont get me wrong Fedor will always be a legend in Russia. But the world knows who Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson. So you tell me what promotion does Fedor has the best chance of building his legacy with? I think you will find its the UFC. "
I totaly agree that MMA is not growing in Japan or Russia like it is in North America.But I think we need to also take into consideration that MMA in America will at some point,most likely decline. Maybe not as dramatic as it did in Japan,but I think the possibility is their. I'm interested to see how the UFC fairs in countries like China and Mexico.
China has just joined the world of MMA,and already the promotion Art of War has really started to shine. I just wonder if China and Mexico will openly recieve the UFC as much as most of us are hoping,or if they'll attempt to close them off like they said Japan did. But here http://www.mmaplayground.com/forums/topic34006-1.html , Brain Smasher claims Dan has said getting a deal in Mexico is nearly impossible. I'm not sure were the source came from though.
I'm not sure if I can buy into the idea that it will look like Fedor never fought in the pros. I think you have to consider how many champions he dispatched that came from the pro-organization as well.
I think we should also consider the fact that Fedor is very humble,and modest about his posistion in the world of MMA.He seems to keep in touch with what the fans and critics think,but I don't think he's ever made the claim that being considered the best fighter in the world is his primary goal either. He seems to have a very good track record of not really letting his ego get in the way.

Who Does Fedor has his best chance of building his legacy with?
I think this question has more than one dimension to it. Yes,the obvious answer is the UFC. But like I mentioned above,though on his skill set alone,he may get considered with the likes of Ali and Tyson,i'm not sure that the UFC could ever break him into the media awareness guys like Ali are. Certainly he has gained a lot of popularity out of the UFC already amongst the critics and hardcore fans,but I don't know if an American audience will relate to the cold,disattached,demeanor of Fedor.



Great post isn't always nice when two people can talk without calling each other names or getting upset because the other person doesn't 100% agree with them. For that I give you props!!!

You make some very good points but I really think if Fedor made it in the UFC and was able to beat the likes of Mir, Lesnar, Carwin, and Randy he would instantly become a MMA legend in the US. I bet if he just beat Lesnar in the way has beat a lot of others it would skyrocket his popularity. The only place this can happen is in the UFC.

Now I agree star power doesn't mean skill but I think there a lot of guys in the UFC that have huge star power and is still growing. They have the skill to back it. Lensar is one and there are a few more. GSP is doing commercial's for the biggest sports drink company in the world. I also agree I'm not sure if the UFC can make him as big as Ali or Tyson but they have much better chance than anyone else. It takes a lot of time to do what the UFC has done in the MMA world and now that they have strong control over the market any other company's chances of competing are very slim at best.

The UFC will keep going with or without Fedor but the company's he has joined don't seam to be able to grow even with him headlining almost every event. This in itself should show that he isn't near as big of a draw as the UFC is or some of their fighters. Now that doesn't mean he isn't a great fighter just means he is unknown to large part of MMA fans. Now I agree it has helped some beating Tim and AA but in the end it may have hurt him even more because of both guys performances as of late. It makes it look like they are washed up. Now he is facing another relative unknown to your avg MMA fan in Barnett. Who is left for him to face after this fight? More unknown's to the avg MMA fans. So it comes down to again who needs who more.

Now on decline and growth of MMA in North America. I agree at some point its popularity will decline but I don't think it ill be to the level that will affect the UFC much. The UFC is playing it smart and targeting the younger people so its fan base will be round for many years and I imagine they will keep targeting younger new fans. There market base keeps getting bigger and bigger as they expand so not only do they have a strong fan base in North America but also the UK and have plans to expand in to almost every possible market.



I agree with most of what has been said.

I disagree with some the reasoning about why Fedor needs to come the UFC.

If we put aside the bickering and all the other things... it comes down to money.
Fedor makes more money fighting outside of the UFC. He also has a much less harsh contract. The UFC doesn't need Fedor to appear legitimate in the eyes of most fans. The UFC also doesn't have much of an interest in creating exceptions to the harsh contracts they are trying to make industry standard.

For Fedor to come to the UFC... one of two things would have to happen:
1) People stop giving Fedor more money and better terms to fight outside of the UFC
2) The UFC comes to a place where they need Fedor to legitimize their HW division.

We will see if those things happen. Fedor is not getting younger... and if the move is not made in the next couple years it probably won't matter. I have a feeling that the Fedor we will see in the UFC will be long past him prime and will only add to the arguments about his true place in MMA history, which is too bad because up to this point in the sport's young history he is by far the greatest to have ever competed.
telnights
7/14/09 11:12:07PM

Posted by ncordless
I agree with most of what has been said.

I disagree with some the reasoning about why Fedor needs to come the UFC.

If we put aside the bickering and all the other things... it comes down to money.
Fedor makes more money fighting outside of the UFC. He also has a much less harsh contract. The UFC doesn't need Fedor to appear legitimate in the eyes of most fans. The UFC also doesn't have much of an interest in creating exceptions to the harsh contracts they are trying to make industry standard.

For Fedor to come to the UFC... one of two things would have to happen:
1) People stop giving Fedor more money and better terms to fight outside of the UFC
2) The UFC comes to a place where they need Fedor to legitimize their HW division.

We will see if those things happen. Fedor is not getting younger... and if the move is not made in the next couple years it probably won't matter. I have a feeling that the Fedor we will see in the UFC will be long past him prime and will only add to the arguments about his true place in MMA history, which is too bad because up to this point in the sport's young history he is by far the greatest to have ever competed.



I would agree it maybe money but I really don't think so. Lorenzo Fertitta said in an interview just few days ago that he offered Fedor a lot more money than anyone has or is paying him now. He also said that the Sambo wasn't an issue at all. I cant find the full interview because it was at the expo but Sherdog has some of it HERE. I'm mad that I missed out on this at the expo.
ncordless
7/14/09 11:28:50PM
Yeah, but Fedor has a stake in M-1. That's where I am beginning to believe the problem is because Fedor wants money for that "company" because he and his "managers" make like bandits when they get to co-promote with other shows. That's why Fedor's purses aren't that big. You know he made more dough than Tim that night, but yet the purse showed he made less than half. All told, there is nothing the UFC can do to offer the amount of money and unrestrictiveness that Fedor gets when M-1 co-promotes on a card with the likes of Affliction. And the UFC is definitely not going to share its brand name with M-1. Mind you this is all just conjecture and bits and pieces of what I've heard and read, but I think it comes down to Fedor's people not wanting to just sign a fighting contract, but to co-promote and the UFC not being willing to do so.



snakerattle79
7/15/09 8:07:40AM

Posted by Manfred

I agree that the UFC doesn't really NEED Fedor.

But I hope for the sake of the future of the sport, Fedor isn't the one to bend.
His main problem isn't Sambo, it's the champions' clause.

Maybe it made sense back when guys walked away with the belt because other orgs could outbid the UFC. But they are the big dog now.

Add to that the continued bullying the UFC is doing (banning established sponsors with little notice, the video game fiasco, threatening to ban a whole camp, requiring sponsors pay 100k, the list goes on) and I'm glad a top fighter is standing up to them.

I want Fedor to smash Brock more than anything right now, .



Agree Well said
telnights
7/15/09 2:33:58PM

Posted by ncordless

Yeah, but Fedor has a stake in M-1. That's where I am beginning to believe the problem is because Fedor wants money for that "company" because he and his "managers" make like bandits when they get to co-promote with other shows. That's why Fedor's purses aren't that big. You know he made more dough than Tim that night, but yet the purse showed he made less than half. All told, there is nothing the UFC can do to offer the amount of money and unrestrictiveness that Fedor gets when M-1 co-promotes on a card with the likes of Affliction. And the UFC is definitely not going to share its brand name with M-1. Mind you this is all just conjecture and bits and pieces of what I've heard and read, but I think it comes down to Fedor's people not wanting to just sign a fighting contract, but to co-promote and the UFC not being willing to do so.



Well I agree but I don't thinks it Fedor who cares about the Co-promotions but I think his management does. Here is a full interview that was post on Sherdog and even Lorenzo thinks the main problem is Fedor's management and this is coming from a guy that has been directly involved in this.
mrsmiley
7/15/09 3:27:29PM

Posted by telnights


Posted by mrsmiley

"Not really....Yes Fedor is big in Japan and Russia but is not very well known in the rest of the world. Unless all of sudden the promotion he is with gets a huge fan base over night he will stay unknown to large portion of MMA fans. Fedor only has a few more years before he cant make an impact anymore"
I think I would argue that he is known more throughout most the world,and his lack of popularity comes mainly from america.
I think his fights with Nogueria,and his fight with Crocop helped cement his popularity outside of Russia and Japan and made his fanbase more broad.
If anything,the massive popularity of fighters like Crocop helped elivate Fedors popularity within a guy like Crocops fanbase.

"Yes I agree but right now with the growth of the UFC and the fact that your avg fan thinks MMA is the UFC this shouldn't be an issue. People seam to think MMA is growing but the truth is it the UFC making MMA grow."

I would agree with you. For better or for worse.

"I don't disagree but fact is the UFC does have the star power to back up their promotion. Now the names you named off your avg fan may not know who they are in 20-30 years but they also aren't as good as Fedor is either. Your avg boxing fans don't know a lot of the great fighters of the past but if you say names like Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson they know who they are. Your avg fan in the US considers the UFC the pros of MMA and by doing so not fighting in the UFC makes it look like your not fighting the best no matter how truly good your opponent is."

I would say that being good or great doesn't equate to star power. I think a good example of this is Kimbo Slice. Slice isn't of the caliber of the higher tier fighters,but promotion alone catapulted him to the status of household name.I would add to the fact I was on gametrailers.com the other day and one forum member pointed out Kimbo Slice lost in the UFC to a guy with pink hair.I once also read a post on sherdog were a guy told a story of how he was talking to another guy he worked with about how good Fedor was.
He then said his fellow co-worker quipped back by asking "If he's so good,why don't he fight Kimbo"?
I think this is were we hit a grey area of also thinking counter productive to what your saying.Their are those that will assume what their watching is UFC soley because the fighter they see has amassed a large amount of popularity. I think based on stories we hear like this,it's also fair to assume that talent doesn't always equal star power. Maybe these stories aren't as common as i'm thining,and their's the possiblity some are a bit exaggerated,but I think most of us have some first hand experince with fans like that as well.
Now Kimbo Slice,you could argue, is an isolated incident of the youtube age,and that under the good graces of God we will never have this type of hype around such an untested individual such as him.
As for Mike Tyson and Ali, I think too,it takes more than just soley skill to reach the status guys like Ali and Tyson have. Skill and raw power absolutley played a role in their popularity,but what really put them at the pennacle of popularity was the same thing that helped put guys like Tiger Woods,Michael Jordan and Tony Hawk reach that as well.
They were able not only to excell at their sport,but were able to break into the modern pop culture of their age.What becomes important in america tends to become important elsewere,and these guys were prime examples of that. MMA has yet to see a fighter who can equal that level of mainstream awareness. I would say that sadly,Kimbo Slice may have been the closet thing yet,but his skill level could not equal the celebrity status he was given.but I think Chuck Liddell came close as well. I would argue that Liddells biggest drawback was that despite the fact he was their during the American big bang of MMA,I think he may have hit his peak before it stayed at the steady pace it is now.
That's arguable for sure,but I think Liddell came around just a bit too early.

"Again I don't disagree but MMA isn't growing in Russia or Japan like it is in North America. In fact in Japan it has lost a lot of its growth. The fact that the UFC is now marketing in China and Mexico should be sign of what direction they are going. As much as some people don't want to admit it the UFC is here to stay and at the rate it is growing now it will be the fully global force in no time at all if it isn't already. Pride even at its greatest time wasn't near as big as the UFC has become.

Now not saying Fedor isn't a great fighter just saying the UFC doesn't need him as badly as he needs them. The direction MMA is going now its looks as if the view of the UFC being the pros will come true and if Fedor doesn't ever fight there to most it will look like he never fought in the Pros. The UFC has all the time in the world right now they have a well known brand name that sales and are opening up in to even bigger markets. The UFC wont age and loss it ability to compete. Time is not on Fedor's side.....

Now dont get me wrong Fedor will always be a legend in Russia. But the world knows who Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson. So you tell me what promotion does Fedor has the best chance of building his legacy with? I think you will find its the UFC. "
I totaly agree that MMA is not growing in Japan or Russia like it is in North America.But I think we need to also take into consideration that MMA in America will at some point,most likely decline. Maybe not as dramatic as it did in Japan,but I think the possibility is their. I'm interested to see how the UFC fairs in countries like China and Mexico.
China has just joined the world of MMA,and already the promotion Art of War has really started to shine. I just wonder if China and Mexico will openly recieve the UFC as much as most of us are hoping,or if they'll attempt to close them off like they said Japan did. But here http://www.mmaplayground.com/forums/topic34006-1.html , Brain Smasher claims Dan has said getting a deal in Mexico is nearly impossible. I'm not sure were the source came from though.
I'm not sure if I can buy into the idea that it will look like Fedor never fought in the pros. I think you have to consider how many champions he dispatched that came from the pro-organization as well.
I think we should also consider the fact that Fedor is very humble,and modest about his posistion in the world of MMA.He seems to keep in touch with what the fans and critics think,but I don't think he's ever made the claim that being considered the best fighter in the world is his primary goal either. He seems to have a very good track record of not really letting his ego get in the way.

Who Does Fedor has his best chance of building his legacy with?
I think this question has more than one dimension to it. Yes,the obvious answer is the UFC. But like I mentioned above,though on his skill set alone,he may get considered with the likes of Ali and Tyson,i'm not sure that the UFC could ever break him into the media awareness guys like Ali are. Certainly he has gained a lot of popularity out of the UFC already amongst the critics and hardcore fans,but I don't know if an American audience will relate to the cold,disattached,demeanor of Fedor.



Great post isn't always nice when two people can talk without calling each other names or getting upset because the other person doesn't 100% agree with them. For that I give you props!!!

You make some very good points but I really think if Fedor made it in the UFC and was able to beat the likes of Mir, Lesnar, Carwin, and Randy he would instantly become a MMA legend in the US. I bet if he just beat Lesnar in the way has beat a lot of others it would skyrocket his popularity. The only place this can happen is in the UFC.

Now I agree star power doesn't mean skill but I think there a lot of guys in the UFC that have huge star power and is still growing. They have the skill to back it. Lensar is one and there are a few more. GSP is doing commercial's for the biggest sports drink company in the world. I also agree I'm not sure if the UFC can make him as big as Ali or Tyson but they have much better chance than anyone else. It takes a lot of time to do what the UFC has done in the MMA world and now that they have strong control over the market any other company's chances of competing are very slim at best.

The UFC will keep going with or without Fedor but the company's he has joined don't seam to be able to grow even with him headlining almost every event. This in itself should show that he isn't near as big of a draw as the UFC is or some of their fighters. Now that doesn't mean he isn't a great fighter just means he is unknown to large part of MMA fans. Now I agree it has helped some beating Tim and AA but in the end it may have hurt him even more because of both guys performances as of late. It makes it look like they are washed up. Now he is facing another relative unknown to your avg MMA fan in Barnett. Who is left for him to face after this fight? More unknown's to the avg MMA fans. So it comes down to again who needs who more.

Now on decline and growth of MMA in North America. I agree at some point its popularity will decline but I don't think it ill be to the level that will affect the UFC much. The UFC is playing it smart and targeting the younger people so its fan base will be round for many years and I imagine they will keep targeting younger new fans. There market base keeps getting bigger and bigger as they expand so not only do they have a strong fan base in North America but also the UK and have plans to expand in to almost every possible market.




I was actually going to bring up GSP in my post above,but didn't.
I think him doing a Gatorade commerical shows how far MMA has come in America (and all around the world for that matter).
I think though,we will have a few years to go before MMA really has its' first superstar. But I think it will happen for sure.
MMA will have it's equivalent to Michael Jordan,Woods,Hawk,etc.
I just don't see any of the fighters today being that one to break the mold.
telnights
7/15/09 10:55:12PM

Posted by mrsmiley
I was actually going to bring up GSP in my post above,but didn't.
I think him doing a Gatorade commerical shows how far MMA has come in America (and all around the world for that matter).
I think though,we will have a few years to go before MMA really has its' first superstar. But I think it will happen for sure.
MMA will have it's equivalent to Michael Jordan,Woods,Hawk,etc.
I just don't see any of the fighters today being that one to break the mold.



I agree I think right now GSP has the best chance and if Fedor joins the UFC soon and can pull a Randy with age he has chance as well. GSP is still young and I don't think he is even hit his peak yet. So there maybe chance that he will hit his peak at a time that MMA will be at its biggest. That's a scary thought that GSP hasn't hit his peak...
Related Topics