Fedor's reputation/standing?

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JBatch
2/14/08 3:21:27PM
I know there are posts with how Dana feels about him and how he feels abou dana. Then there is Joe Rogans opinions on the whole situation. I am wondering how us the general public the MMA fan feels about his situation.

Do you see him as a trailblazer paving the way for the likes of Couture, CC and possibly Big Tim to turn away from the big dog the UFC?
Is he so good he is making the top competition come to him?

Was he selfish/scared ( I hate to use the word scared here) to join the UFC when he saw what was happening to CC and other Pride vets??

I just want to know the general consensus among people the post on here often and whose opinions I do value as informed, is Fedor with all his inactivity and his lack of top competition in the last 2 years still Top HW and basically the best fighter in the world????
DCRage
2/14/08 3:28:00PM
Top HW, yes. Top Fighter, no-Anderson Silva is now #1 to most. Fedor hasn't really fought really tough opposition since the Matt Lindland fight (when Lindland jumped all the way up from MW), although there's been rumors of another CC fight, which is just what he needs although everyone knows the only fight that might really make him happy is Couture.
StevenSeagal
2/14/08 3:35:31PM
Holy Batman!!!
JBatch
2/14/08 3:38:30PM

Posted by StevenSeagal

Holy Batman!!!



Its not supposed to be beating a dead horse my friend and if thats how you feel don't read the post. I am basically trying to decipher common opinions. I read all over the place on different sites all the experts views I am trying to find out what the general fan feels.
waylon_o
2/14/08 3:40:41PM
I hate to say it, but he has finally slipped from #1 in my book. I was a Fedor nuthugger, but I don't see how someone can still have him as #1 anymore. He needs to fight a top 10 guy at least to show everyone he still has it. I'm not saying he doesn't still have it because come on man, it's Fedor. I think there are a few interesting opportunities about to open up though. He definitely needs to stay away from the Hong Man Chois and the Bob Sapps of the world. He is only risking a very disappointing and embarassing loss by fighting these people. At LEAST keep it in the top 15 man.
Rush
2/14/08 4:15:12PM
There haven't been very many, if any, real top ten type fights in the HW divisions throughout MMA. Most of the big names have been pretty quiet or have only rematched each other. The smaller names have not made enough noise for me to put them in my top 10 list.

Nothing significant has happened such that I feel the need to add fighters into the top then that were not there a year ago, nor remove fighters that were already in my top 10. I've made a few adjustments over the past year, but nothing really major (Cro Cop and Syvia moving down) and leaving a few empty slots.
Pookie
2/14/08 4:15:53PM
Ok hmm.... where to start.

I wouldnt say that hes so good that he makes the competition come to him (except in couture's case). But he is good enough that i have yet to see a single hole in his fight game.

The two years without facing top competition is a little askew though. He was a free agent for 8 months. If zuffa hadnt of bought pride he would have fought other top competition IMO. It's just that he couldnt. Then the UFC gave him a contract that he didnt like so he didnt sign it. So he went to m-1. People complain about him fighting hong man choi, but people dont realize how big of a name choi is in japan. He was the only fighter k-1 was willing to offer him. In a co-promotion your hands are sort of tied. But we'll see as it seems anybody worth a damn in the division is leaving the ufc other than nog.

As far as his standing as #1 in the HW division. I support this claim. Not because "omgz hes indestructable rabble rabble" but because theres no one else deserving more than him. The only person you could logically make a case for is nog, but fedor is like nog x2 in practically every area (with the exception of a pain threshold, that attribute nog is unparalleled). Anyone nog can beat fedor can beat in the same manner. And when you pit them against each other Fedor wins a one-sided victory everytime. Some might say "well, what about couture." IMO coutures level of competition has been worse then fedor's. Gonzaga and sylvia(with a back injury at that) does not quite add up to Hunt, Choi(who is like sylvia x2) and lindland.

Also Lindland is really really underrated. People are saying well hes a mw...
When he moved up to fight Rampage at LHW he brang it to a split decision. And at this time rampage was training with Ibarra already. It was the same rampage who fought chuck and hendo, the only difference is that lindland gave him a MUCH tougher fight. If lindland decided to fight at LHW id rank him easily in the top 5.
Rush
2/14/08 4:21:46PM

Posted by waylon_o

He definitely needs to stay away from the Hong Man Chois and the Bob Sapps of the world. He is only risking a very disappointing and embarassing loss by fighting these people. At LEAST keep it in the top 15 man.



Caveat Emptor

Fedor made a comment on his website that he likes interesting fights. He likes fighting different fighters each with their own little quirks. He seems less concerned with "winning" per se and more interested in the competition.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't care to see the same fighters fight over and over again. Sylvia-Arlovski or Ortiz-Shamrock, those were ridiculous. What happens if he comes to the UFC, we see Fedor and Nog fight for the three more times?
Pitbull09
2/14/08 4:47:27PM
I think he is the top Heavyweight fighter in the world but he is overrated. Thats not saying he isnt good but people make him out to be god along with all other Pride fighters when the orgs were seperate.

Henderson < Jackson
Wandy <Liddell
Nog almost got KOed by Hearring
CC < Insert UFC fighter here
Werdum < AA

This isnt an all out blast of UFC vs Pride cause thats just stupid. Its just showing how fighters that wee thought were at a whole other level had trouble with guys that never got a shot at them.

I understand the rules difference and ring/cage thing to but in the end people must admitt no fighter should have a status that Fedor has and all fighters eventually meet their match.

Other than that, the HW ranking are so screwed right now since Fedor is in M-1, Couture and Barnett havnt fought for a long time, CC has had two bad fights, and Nogeria is in a somewhat weak division. I really have no idea how to rank fighters in this division right now but I can tell you Fedor still deserves the #1 spot since Couture left UFC. Anyone who argues, be patient and wait til Fedor/Couture
TNunley
2/14/08 4:48:14PM

Posted by Rush


Posted by waylon_o

He definitely needs to stay away from the Hong Man Chois and the Bob Sapps of the world. He is only risking a very disappointing and embarassing loss by fighting these people. At LEAST keep it in the top 15 man.



Caveat Emptor

Fedor made a comment on his website that he likes interesting fights. He likes fighting different fighters each with their own little quirks. He seems less concerned with "winning" per se and more interested in the competition.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't care to see the same fighters fight over and over again. Sylvia-Arlovski or Ortiz-Shamrock, those were ridiculous. What happens if he comes to the UFC, we see Fedor and Nog fight for the three more times?



I didn't know Canadians spoke Latin.
Rush
2/14/08 4:52:38PM

Posted by TNunley

I didn't know Canadians spoke Latin.



Some of us even speak French.
waylon_o
2/14/08 5:00:13PM

Posted by Pookie
IMO coutures level of competition has been worse then fedor's. Gonzaga and sylvia(with a back injury at that) does not quite add up to Hunt, Choi(who is like sylvia x2) and lindland.

I'm not blasting you or anything, but do you really think Hong Man Choi is Tim Sylvia x2?
waylon_o
2/14/08 5:02:38PM

Posted by Pookie

IMO coutures level of competition has been worse then fedor's. Gonzaga and sylvia(with a back injury at that) does not quite add up to Hunt, Choi(who is like sylvia x2) and lindland.

I'm not blasting you or anything, but do you really think that Hong Man Choi is Tim Sylvia x2? Please delete my last post...
waylon_o
2/14/08 5:05:12PM
DAMNIT haha I'm trying to quote Pookie's post on Sylvia. Pookie said Hong Man Choi was Tim Sylvia x2...I was just asking (not blasting) Pookie if he honestly thought Choi was Sylvia x2? MOD please delete my last 2 posts
DevonFoxy
2/14/08 5:19:06PM
I agree with most of the people posting def. the top Heavyweight by a good margin but I have Henderson above him P4P. I think he will beat Anderson and just destroy that division leaving soon after and fighting some of the great LHW's in the UFC and perhaps hold the title there as well.

I think if Henderson does in fact defeat The Spider the UFC only fans are gonna have another fighter to drool over. Man can't be knocked out and his stand up is so well put together now along with his Olympic wrestling and his training in Judo (which hes been training with a Silver Medalist in the Olympics) hes a major threat for any guy. I can't get over this guy he just went 5 rounds with the UFC LHW champion and it was a match i personally think could have gone either way.

Dan Henderson is the P4P best fighter in the world.......IMO
Pookie
2/14/08 5:23:36PM
well look at Sylvia's attributes.

He's a big tough guy sort of hard to take down who hits pretty hard. Submission defense is lacking.

What is choi's attributes.

Tough as nails: Watch him in k-1 against lebanner, many people would have crumbled against that kind of beating, Sylvia Included IMO.

Hard to take down: Fedor, possibly the best sambo practitioner in the world could not throw him off balance and choi ended up on top of him twice. In terms of a sprawl(if you could call it that), i believe Choi's is much better than sylvia's because he has 100 pounds of extra weight(muscle at that) he can put on his opponents head.

Hits pretty hard: Lebanner said one of chois punches was like taking 5 of Aerts'. Sylvia does not hit that hard.

and of course choi's submission defense is lacking, although his might be a little better as he showed he can power out of an incredibly deep armbar, which was put on by the best Submission artist in the heavyweight division.


The difference in size between Sylvia and choi is the difference in size between Sean Sherk and Fabricio Werdum.

waylon_o
2/14/08 5:39:17PM
I couldn't disagree more man. I know everyone hates him, but Tim Sylvia is pretty good. I think if Sylvia and Choi fight, Sylvia would take it 9 times out of 10. Maybe not in a kickboxing match, but in MMA, Sylvia would take it all the way.
Tein_Lung
2/14/08 7:41:31PM

Posted by waylon_o

I couldn't disagree more man. I know everyone hates him, but Tim Sylvia is pretty good. I think if Sylvia and Choi fight, Sylvia would take it 9 times out of 10. Maybe not in a kickboxing match, but in MMA, Sylvia would take it all the way.

ok what drugs are you on??? I'm not saying Sylvia is trash but at the same time, anyone with a ground game has beated him ( I know he beat monson but hes a foot shorter then him and Tim did nothing but stall because he was scared on the ground)... Tim wins fights because of his range, you get past that and he crumbles, look at the coture fight, he came out poped him in the jaw and dominated every area of the fight after that. Mir grabed his arm and broke it because Tim doesn't know proper sub defense... If you arms are longer then Sylvias then you win the fight, provided you know how to strike or know how to take him down.

Personally i think Tim is one of the most overrated fighters ever because hes a bigger Kongo... They both suck on the ground you just don't see people exploit that with Tim...



On the Fedor thing, i agree he was most likely the best in the world, but honestly when is he gonna fight someone whos got a chance at beating him, weather its Coture or not, hes done nothing but beat on cans for 2 years... Until Fedor and Randy fight i can't see one being ranked higher then the other. I also don't see that fight ever hapening because of the Contracts and Randys age...
Pookie
2/14/08 8:25:42PM

Posted by waylon_o

I couldn't disagree more man. I know everyone hates him, but Tim Sylvia is pretty good. I think if Sylvia and Choi fight, Sylvia would take it 9 times out of 10. Maybe not in a kickboxing match, but in MMA, Sylvia would take it all the way.



So you think Sylvia could take choi down? Double leg or single? Or would he just tombstone piledriver him?
bayonetxwork
2/14/08 9:51:45PM
It is ridiculous to consider Fedor anywhere near the top IMO. Maybe a couple months ago, but after being inactive forever, no one should be able to rank him...That is totally ridiculous and biased. Sure he was the best, but to rank him solely on that is dumb. Rankings are supposed to be current, right? Whens the last time he fought a legitimate HW? December of LAST year.

Just for the record, Fedor is one of my favorite fighters. But if ANYONE else went on a hiatus for over a year, theres no way you'd keep them on the list, why keep him?
JBatch
2/14/08 10:27:38PM

Posted by bayonetxwork

It is ridiculous to consider Fedor anywhere near the top IMO. Maybe a couple months ago, but after being inactive forever, no one should be able to rank him...That is totally ridiculous and biased. Sure he was the best, but to rank him solely on that is dumb. Rankings are supposed to be current, right? Whens the last time he fought a legitimate HW? December of LAST year.

Just for the record, Fedor is one of my favorite fighters. But if ANYONE else went on a hiatus for over a year, theres no way you'd keep them on the list, why keep him?



This is how I feel as well. I respect Fedor and know he is a top calibre fighter. Yet too long a layoff hurts your reputation in any sport. Also Fedor is one of my favourite fighters as well I just can't rank him #1 because he is a spectacle now. Fights a MW in Lindland, then a bohemotth in Choi and now a reality show "Fighting Fedor". He has turned from a legit #1 P4P in the world IMO, too a sideshow. He needs Barnett, Couture, Sylvia and any other HW over to fight him soon.

As for the Sylvia vs. Choi debate. I am goig to side with whoever was arguing Sylvia is better. Sylvia's irst trainer was a pro boxer in Marcus Davis and he has since trained with the Miletich Camp of insane wrestlers. I am not fully aware of Choi's background but what I have seen of him in 2 or 3 fights he is not near the fighter that Big Tim is.

Plus Tim gets under 265 and Choi will never and should never see that weight.
Pookie
2/14/08 10:31:00PM
Choi is a k-1 champion.

That makes you a more accomplished striker than being trained by marcus davis.
JBatch
2/14/08 10:38:02PM
K-1 is all stand up if I am not mistaken and thats why I brought up the ground work broseff. Choi is a giant and thats his only upside. Other than that the guy is a chump, Fedor made him look like he made Zulu look too big, too slow and too reliant on his size. So Tiim has quite the advantag over Choi.
Pookie
2/14/08 10:43:38PM
how could sylvia get choi off his feet?

DevonFoxy
2/14/08 11:50:03PM
I agree with Pookie on this one Choi is actually a very accomplished kickboxer and would pick Tim apart with his reach and power. He has better hands then Tim and more power then Tim and there is no way Tim could get the giant off his feet. Even if some how he got him to the ground Tim doesn't have a very good game either so they would more likely get stood back up where Choi has the advantage by a good margin imo. This fight just does not play into Tim's strengths and works entirely against him. Choi by TKO/KO in the 1st or 2nd.

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Back on topic if you really feel Fedor should not be ranked i have to strongly disagree with you.

Beating every fighter that is put in front of you including fighters that many feel at the time they faced Fedor top 5 and Fedor just makes them look silly I mean come on sounds like we have Dana White syndrome going on here but you guys are entitled to your opinion thats what makes this sport great and this website great.
cmill21
2/15/08 12:06:40AM

Posted by DevonFoxy

I agree with Pookie on this one Choi is actually a very accomplished kickboxer and would pick Tim apart with his reach and power. He has better hands then Tim and more power then Tim and there is no way Tim could get the giant off his feet. Even if some how he got him to the ground Tim doesn't have a very good game either so they would more likely get stood back up where Choi has the advantage by a good margin imo. This fight just does not play into Tim's strengths and works entirely against him. Choi by TKO/KO in the 1st or 2nd.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back on topic if you really feel Fedor should not be ranked i have to strongly disagree with you.

Beating every fighter that is put in front of you including fighters that many feel at the time they faced Fedor top 5 and Fedor just makes them look silly I mean come on sounds like we have Dana White syndrome going on here but you guys are entitled to your opinion thats what makes this sport great and this website great.



I agree with everything posted here. Choi is just Tim but bigger with better striking, how can tim beat him? He's not going to win a jab fest, since choi has a better jab with more reach, and I don't know how he would take him down, I honestly don't know if anyone can take him down, he's so damn big. Anyways, Fedor is a crazy fighter, he's always doing what people said he shoulden't, he stood with Cro Cop longer then anyone ever thought he would, everyone said "no one can survive in Nog's guard" guess who did. He's a terminator IMO.
JBatch
2/15/08 1:51:41AM
I've said that Emelianenko is the best fighter ever and when Pride was in full swing, Fedor was king. Yet when ranking someone who is supposed to be currently active and facing good comp. Fedor fails in every criteria right now.

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As for Choi, jump off his balls please. The guy is not a good MMA fighter, he is a spectacle, a freak show if you will. Its sad for me to say because I do not like Tim but he would beat Choi in a ring, maybe not the octagon if Choi knew ho to use it.

I just did my research and looked at every Hong Man Choi fight there is. He is nothing special just as I expected. Pookie makes im sound like some kickboxing wizard. All he has is his front knee that is at most of his opponents head level but not at Tims. If Bob Sapp had a technique or a gas tank at least he would have beat him no problem. His wins come due to his size he fights guys a foot shorter and 120 lbs lighter or a foot shorter and the same weight or guys with limited kickboxing credentials. Timmy is what like 6 inches shorter and could probably fight him at like 290. It is a fight that looks like it is getting closer to happening and I would love to see it.

My question for you guys speaking of how great he is, is why?? What makes you think he would beat Tim in an mma fight??? You stated earlier because they are th same they ar nowhere close. Tim has years of ground exprience on him.
Tein_Lung
2/15/08 2:03:23AM

Posted by JBatch

K-1 is all stand up if I am not mistaken and thats why I brought up the ground work broseff. Choi is a giant and thats his only upside. Other than that the guy is a chump, Fedor made him look like he made Zulu look too big, too slow and too reliant on his size. So Tiim has quite the advantag over Choi.

not gonna say that Tims hands are slow... but the only thing Tim had going for him in the UFC was his size, thats how he beat monson, and that why he was beat by randy...
Pookie
2/15/08 2:31:48AM

Posted by JBatch

I've said that Emelianenko is the best fighter ever and when Pride was in full swing, Fedor was king. Yet when ranking someone who is supposed to be currently active and facing good comp. Fedor fails in every criteria right now.

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As for Choi, jump off his balls please. The guy is not a good MMA fighter, he is a spectacle, a freak show if you will. Its sad for me to say because I do not like Tim but he would beat Choi in a ring, maybe not the octagon if Choi knew ho to use it.

I just did my research and looked at every Hong Man Choi fight there is. He is nothing special just as I expected. Pookie makes im sound like some kickboxing wizard. All he has is his front knee that is at most of his opponents head level but not at Tims. If Bob Sapp had a technique or a gas tank at least he would have beat him no problem. His wins come due to his size he fights guys a foot shorter and 120 lbs lighter or a foot shorter and the same weight or guys with limited kickboxing credentials. Timmy is what like 6 inches shorter and could probably fight him at like 290. It is a fight that looks like it is getting closer to happening and I would love to see it.

My question for you guys speaking of how great he is, is why?? What makes you think he would beat Tim in an mma fight??? You stated earlier because they are th same they ar nowhere close. Tim has years of ground exprience on him.



I said no such thing, i said he was a K-1 champ. Saying Jerome lebanner has limited kickboxing credentials is leaping over the line of hyperbole and into the realm of insanity.

You're arguement that Choi only wins because of his size is 100% true, but it's the exact same reason that Tim wins his fights.
The fact of the matter is that Choi still has a size advantage over tim, while tim is coming in as the smaller man as once.

Tim has years of ground experience on him? Defensively sure, but hes never taken anybody down before. And considering Fedor couldnt get Choi down, a 6'9" man who has never trained to take people down is not going to have even a mediocre shot in taking him down. He cannot do it.

The fight will stay a stand-up fight, because niether has the tools to force it too the ground.

On the feet Choi is much more dangerous, durable and has the reach advantage. This means sylvia is, for the very first time in his career, going to have to move foraward and slip someone elses punches.

Use your noggin dude, stylistically sylvia would have to change everything that has made him successful this far going into the match.

If anyone is hugging nuts here its you.
Schizoidman
2/15/08 3:29:06AM
I personally give Fedor and his management team credit for not settling for the UFC's terribly one-sided contracts. There is no reason why he should settle for not being able to fight in Sambo tournaments, or getting paid incredibly less if he starts losing. If the UFC wants to start pay fighters less because they lose, they should draw up shorter contracts. More fighters are realizing that the UFC's contracts are unfair, and more fighters are willing to go to other organizations because of it. So, whatever Fedor's current ranking is, I still think it's fair to say that he's one of the smartest fighters to grace the sport. And Randy was right to follow suit. I sincerely hope that the UFC can adapt and create more fair contracts before all of their talent leaves.


Choi beats Sylvia (no matter what sport you want to call it, it's still a kickboxing match)
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