Is fedor Too good?

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Someguy
2/17/07 9:48:12PM

Posted by richieb19
I'm posting right now so that people can hopefully realize that Fedor is an amazing fighter, and nothing more. Ten years ago, people were laying claim that Ken Shamrock was an unstopable beast, and look today what most MMA fans have to say about him.

Ten years ago MMA was a much different beast then it is now, and people actually realize what skills you need to posses to become a true great, and thats what he is. Fedor is the total package; a perfectly rounded fighter. He has undeniable ability in every aspect an MMA fighter needs to be a true champion. In addition to his physical attributes he has great mental capability, look how he strategically dismantled Crocop, he effectively neutralized all of his offensive weapons in a way that only a true master could. It's my belief that he will retire not only with the heavyweight belt (or atleast should retire with it, I'm sure he's smart enough to know when to end it, unlike Ken), but also as the first TRUE, fully complete MMA champion. He will (and does) set the bar for what aspiring MMA competitors should become.

richieb19
2/17/07 10:16:33PM

Posted by Someguy


Posted by richieb19
I'm posting right now so that people can hopefully realize that Fedor is an amazing fighter, and nothing more. Ten years ago, people were laying claim that Ken Shamrock was an unstopable beast, and look today what most MMA fans have to say about him.

Ten years ago MMA was a much different beast then it is now, and people actually realize what skills you need to posses to become a true great, and thats what he is. Fedor is the total package; a perfectly rounded fighter. He has undeniable ability in every aspect an MMA fighter needs to be a true champion. In addition to his physical attributes he has great mental capability, look how he strategically dismantled Crocop, he effectively neutralized all of his offensive weapons in a way that only a true master could. It's my belief that he will retire not only with the heavyweight belt (or atleast should retire with it, I'm sure he's smart enough to know when to end it, unlike Ken), but also as the first TRUE, fully complete MMA champion. He will (and does) set the bar for what aspiring MMA competitors should become.


I completely agree, and never have I denied his abilities or accomplishments, I'm just getting annoyed with how he is often being portrayed by people. Don't fool yourself, MMA may have been a different sport 10 years ago, but be sure of one thing, it's going to be different in another 10 years just the same. Being a fan for so long, I can remember that this is the same way people portrayed Shamrock in the early 90's after beating Royce and Severn with a combination of well rounded skills and brilliant gameplans. In ten years, sadly enough, there will be a new phenom, and the name Fedor will most likely fade in the same fashion Ken's did.
dstlvb
2/17/07 11:20:46PM
I agree with you on a new Phenom in the next ten years. Whether Fedors name goes by the way side will greatly depend on him. Ken has hurt his own image by sticking around to long and not evolving(evidenced by the fact he doesnt have a grappling coach on TUF). On the other hand Royce has stayed at the top and has only lost very little of his rep by coming back and losing to Hughes. Fedor has shown a willingness to learn and adapt to every fighter that has come down the path. I belive in all athletes there is that intangible that make the great, The Greatest. We see it in Tiger, Jordan, Gretzkey, Manning, Royce. I dont think it is to early to put Fedor in that class.
richieb19
2/17/07 11:40:58PM

Posted by dstlvb

I agree with you on a new Phenom in the next ten years. Whether Fedors name goes by the way side will greatly depend on him. Ken has hurt his own image by sticking around to long and not evolving(evidenced by the fact he doesnt have a grappling coach on TUF). On the other hand Royce has stayed at the top and has only lost very little of his rep by coming back and losing to Hughes. Fedor has shown a willingness to learn and adapt to every fighter that has come down the path. I belive in all athletes there is that intangible that make the great, The Greatest. We see it in Tiger, Jordan, Gretzkey, Manning, Royce. I dont think it is to early to put Fedor in that class.

Ken not bringing a grappling coach on TUF is not odd at all, seeing as hes a better grappler than anyone he could have ever brought in. I wouldnt compare Fedor to Gretzky or Jordan just yet, seeing as the sport is still so young, but anyone who doesnt credit him as one of the greatest of all time and a legend of a sport is simply confuzed.
Spiderman
2/17/07 11:42:21PM
I think Pride has a load of top contenders for Fedor still .. He hasnt even fought Barnett , Sergei , or Werdum Yet !! The # 2 HW in the world [ NOG ] has totally revamped his style to beat Fedor , and I think Nog will beat Fedor in a 20 min fight if they fight again .. Also Barnett is no exactly a chump either , Its not much of a stretch to consider Barnett a better mma fighter than Mirko , and possibly more of a challenge to Fedor . Barnett can fight on the ground and beat guys Mirko cant like Semmy , and Hunt [ Mirko cant beat a better kickboxer due to haveing only kickboxing skills ] also Mirko i really only see Mirko haveing 1 win over Barnett in what was a very close fight in which Barnett was winning the standup ,and the whole fight for the first 15 minutes , Mirko then came on in rd3 when Barnett gassed and squeked out a Dec , the first fight was a fluke injury , and #3 was not a fair matchup as MIrko was fresh , and Barnett was exhausted and Beatenup from the 15 min fight with Nog . I dont think Barnett , Sergei , or Werdum are given enough Respect .
I also dont understand why a rematch with Mirko [ who Fedor beat at his own game with only 1 hand ] is appealing , but a rematch with Nog [ who has actually taken steps to improve , to make a differant result this time a definite possiblity ] is not ?

The fights I want to see Fedor have are
1 a Rematch with Nog [ who is the best HW other than Fedor ]
2 a Fight with Barnett
3 a Rematch with Mirko
4 Junior Silva
5 Sergei .K
6 F. Werdum
7 then down the road a rematch with Hunt [ with improved ground skills ]


@ previous poster saying Pride never reciprocated the ufc sending fighters to Pride ... Pride tried to send fighters its pretty well known they Offered Mirko , Sergei , and Ninja just to name a few ... Do you think the Ufc really wanted Pride HW fighters comeing onto a ppv and blowing there guys away ? do they think they would have let a Pride employee guest commentate , and promote Pride on there ppv [ like Pride let Dana plug the ufc ] ? They wont even say the word " Pride " they just say japan . Pride is / was trying to break into the american market of course they want publicity from the ufc .. I also doubt Pride would ever have allowed the Ufc on there PPV if the ufc where a threat to them in japan [ which they are not ]

Spiderman
2/17/07 11:50:47PM

Posted by richieb19

I know I'm going to be critisized heavily for this post, but I feel it needs to be said. Fedor Emelianenko is definately one of the greatest fighters of all time, and is easily the # 1 or 2 HW in the world currently, but he is not what most fans claim him to be. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching him fight, and I'm more than impressed at his 15-0 record in the best division in MMA, but within the last few years his hype has gotten the better of most fans. Emelianenko is a fantastic fighter who can dominate on the feet or on the mat, and he has a gameplan for everyone, but is he unbeatable, far from it... Within the last 2 or 3 years, message boards have lit up with these "hardcore" mma fans who lay claim that Fedor is an indestructable cyborg, I mean how can anyone else survive a suplex from Randleman... I'm posting right now so that people can hopefully realize that Fedor is an amazing fighter, and nothing more. Ten years ago, people were laying claim that Ken Shamrock was an unstopable beast, and look today what most MMA fans have to say about him. I wish Fedor the best and will always remember him as one of the greatest of all times, but a loss is due, and Barnett, CroCop (or Nastula IMHO) or some worthy fighter will soon dethrone him...



Who was laying claim that Ken Shamrock was a unstoppable beast ? Take a look at his record , he lost a lot of fights in his prime . No one has ever done what Fedor has done in mma , which is beat all the top guys without takeing any defeats [ other than the Tk cut , and close fight with Arona in rings ]

Fedor is the most dominant fighter the sport has ever seen so far , and its at a time when the HW div is at alltime high for talent [ Fedor , Nog , Barnett , Mirko , Hunt , Sergei , Werdum , Alex

Also a prime Shamrock is a very good fighter , he is just old and washed up now .
jwvincent32
2/18/07 12:26:59AM
Going back to what richieb19 said and being a gracie fan and doing my first bjj training with royce and his brothers in the military which does make me a little bias Ken Shamrock never won a fight against royce.Royce won the first and it was a draw the second Royce Gracie is a true mma legend IMO
Just my thinking

Fedor is one of my favorites and I think he will hold onto the title for awhile
richieb19
2/18/07 12:41:27AM

Posted by jwvincent32

Going back to what richieb19 said and being a gracie fan and doing my first bjj training with royce and his brothers in the military which does make me a little bias Ken Shamrock never won a fight against royce.Royce won the first and it was a draw the second Royce Gracie is a true mma legend IMO
Just my thinking

Fedor is one of my favorites and I think he will hold onto the title for awhile

Royce is most definately a MMA legend, and he beat Shamrock in under a minute at UFC 1... but what took place at UFC 5 is far from a draw, Shamrock had the perfect gameplan, and as boring as it was to watch, it took Royce out of the octagon.
richieb19
2/18/07 12:44:11AM

Posted by Spiderman


Posted by richieb19

I know I'm going to be critisized heavily for this post, but I feel it needs to be said. Fedor Emelianenko is definately one of the greatest fighters of all time, and is easily the # 1 or 2 HW in the world currently, but he is not what most fans claim him to be. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching him fight, and I'm more than impressed at his 15-0 record in the best division in MMA, but within the last few years his hype has gotten the better of most fans. Emelianenko is a fantastic fighter who can dominate on the feet or on the mat, and he has a gameplan for everyone, but is he unbeatable, far from it... Within the last 2 or 3 years, message boards have lit up with these "hardcore" mma fans who lay claim that Fedor is an indestructable cyborg, I mean how can anyone else survive a suplex from Randleman... I'm posting right now so that people can hopefully realize that Fedor is an amazing fighter, and nothing more. Ten years ago, people were laying claim that Ken Shamrock was an unstopable beast, and look today what most MMA fans have to say about him. I wish Fedor the best and will always remember him as one of the greatest of all times, but a loss is due, and Barnett, CroCop (or Nastula IMHO) or some worthy fighter will soon dethrone him...



Who was laying claim that Ken Shamrock was a unstoppable beast ? Take a look at his record , he lost a lot of fights in his prime . No one has ever done what Fedor has done in mma , which is beat all the top guys without takeing any defeats [ other than the Tk cut , and close fight with Arona in rings ]

Fedor is the most dominant fighter the sport has ever seen so far , and its at a time when the HW div is at alltime high for talent [ Fedor , Nog , Barnett , Mirko , Hunt , Sergei , Werdum , Alex

Also a prime Shamrock is a very good fighter , he is just old and washed up now .

I'm not taking anything from Fedor, all I did was compare his dominace to a fighter from another era to prove a point.
jwvincent32
2/18/07 12:56:15AM
I agree richie that fight showed how good Ken was coming back to face Royce it showed how good his training was your right that fight was long and not very exciting was it
mrsumo
2/18/07 1:01:37AM
Fedor is definitely the Bee's Knee's in the fight world today. But I don't think that he has any lack of challengers. It's a money issue. His managers and the pride people wait to see what matchup is going to rake in the most cash, then they unleash him. You will probably see more Fedor soon because of the internal issues with pride. Until that unfolds, they are going to keep him tucked away and dole him aout a little at a time to suit their needs.

Is he too good? Can anyone be too good? I say that noone is unbeatable, but damn that man can fight.
mmadb
2/18/07 11:03:34AM
I see Fedor's 4 fights after the Lindland fight being against, not necessarily in this order:

1. Noguiera (I'd love to see it personally)
2. Barnett (interesting matchup no doubt)
3. Kharitonov (assuming he gets back on track which I hope happens)
4. Yoshida (odd pick but I could see it happen, Yoshida gets paid huge dollars and is a monster draw in Japan and usually fights opponents that are superior to him. although the loss to thompson kinda ruined this possibility I think it'd be interesting to see)

P.S. UFC sent Vitor to Pride once as well if I remember correctly
Spiderman
2/18/07 4:25:30PM
Just to clarify it . The UFC Did not and Will not allow W.Silva to come to the Ufc for just one fight .. They would only allow Silva to come to the Ufc if he signed a 3 fight contract with them [ if Silva became a Ufc fighter ] Check the interviews with Dana white .. And the Ufc turned down a bunch of fighters that Pride offered to send to the Ufc [ Sergei , Mirko , Ninja and others ] Dana used the excuse that those fighters salarys where to high for the UFc to pay them ..

Right from the beggining [ 2003 gp ] it was obvious to me that the ufc didnt want any Pride fighters comeing to there show . Who did Dana say he wanted on the ufc ppv ? was if Fedor , Mirko , Nog ??? Nope Nope Nope . Dana wanted Fujita , and Sak 2 guys that are Probably 2 of the hightest paid guys in Pride [ and the ufc could not even afford Sergeis salary ] They are also not elite fighters in Pride and i would not consider Fujita very exciting , and most of there appeal is in japan .

I understand Dana not wanting to promote his competition in the USA on his own PPV , but he never should have made a deal to trade fighters [ if that was ever the case ? maybe Pride just allowed them to enter the gp ?] if he intended to not honor his part of the deal .. But worst of all is for the weasel to turn down all the fighters that Pride tried to send [ you can find interviews where Dana admits to it ] and then turn around and the claim that " we sent fighters to Pride , but they didnt return the favor " trying to defend his dec to axe the W.Silva fight , also he has no place saying the japanese are hard to do bussiness with .
hippysmacker
2/18/07 5:14:54PM
SInce both sides have said the sticking point on Wandy was the 3 fight contract i think that is the truth. Both side's comment's since have been just hype, rhetoric and non-sense IMO. Since you are on team Pride, I think it's a fair assumption that you might prefer Pride. That's fine, you have that right. I personally just love MMA, but I have friends on both side of the fence . I think they are both great, and would not choose one over the other. I only know for certain that none of Pride's fighter's ever fought in the UFC , while under contract to pride. The UFC did send their guys over. Dana's comment's on who' s at fault and who he asked for are different from what you stated. The interview I saw said they wanted to send him Fujita, Kharitanov etc. and he didn't think they were worth the salary they were contracted for. Who really knows if Dana /Sakibara ( either or both) are elling any of the truth . None of us can really trust what either side says, they are in competition and this is big business. I hope there is a unifacation series some day, and I really think it will happen in some form some day. However, the only people who really know who's telling the truth are the MMA bigwigs involved in the discussion, and God. Everything else is just peoples personal opinions.

P.S. let's urn this back intoa Fedor thread now. Any more non-relevant Pride/UFC comments should be in the official Pride vs UFC thread. thanks
greeneyebandit
3/2/07 10:34:16PM
Fedor can fight...he is a true glutton. He doesn't look like it but looks are deceiving.
ButterBalls
3/3/07 12:46:10AM
I see Fedor eventually leaving while either still on top, or damn near. He won't slip and fall like Ken.
Hogzilla
3/3/07 12:22:42PM
Too good? Too good for what? That dont make no sense!
madmarck
3/3/07 2:29:05PM

Posted by DirtySouthBoss

I started this post and I honestly can't tell if you are talking about me, but I have no interest in what Dana White is saying. The Question is that is Fedor intimidating the comp?\



Who is the # 1 contender in everyone's opinion?


It has to be Cro Cop. Barnett is a close 2nd just for the face he is one of the few top HW's (top 5) to face Fedor.
DirtySouthBoss
3/3/07 2:29:52PM

Posted by Hogzilla

Too good? Too good for what? That dont make no sense!



Did you read the thread?

Top contenders arn't fighting him. They all think that they need more time. So he may be too good that we suffer from a lack of decent challenges toward him.
jocksmall
3/3/07 2:31:25PM

Posted by DirtySouthBoss

With Pride losing fighters to the UFC what is going on with the undefeated champ? CC and Josh Barnett both had the chance to fight him on new years but they both passed up because they wanted to be at their best. Now that he is fighting Lindland is it assumed that he should just fight for $ instead of worthy challengers? Is he too good? IMO CC has the best chance, but JB isn't up tp it . He simply hasn"t beat enough top competition.


i disagree with the part of your statement that fedor hasnt beaten enough top competition. fedor has beaten most of the top hw . cro-cop, big nog, fugita,hunt, herring(when he was thought of as a top hw). fedor has beaten most of the guys in pride and now he will start going to other organaztions to mop up the other top hw. he hasnt faced top ufc guys but most agree that those guys start at number 5 in the world.
DirtySouthBoss
3/3/07 3:13:14PM

Posted by jocksmall

i disagree with the part of your statement that fedor hasnt beaten enough top competition. fedor has beaten most of the top hw . cro-cop, big nog, fugita,hunt, herring(when he was thought of as a top hw). fedor has beaten most of the guys in pride and now he will start going to other organaztions to mop up the other top hw. he hasnt faced top ufc guys but most agree that those guys start at number 5 in the world.



I didnt say that Fedor has not beaten alot of top competition. I agree with what you said about who he has fought. Im saying that he has already beaten them and I'm just looking down the road for new good fights for him. I think he has already fought the best of the HW. I dont think Werdum, AA, or Silvia can beat him. And Josh just lost to Big Nog and CC so I dont think he deserves the next shot but he will probably get it because Fedor has beaten everyone else in Pride.
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