Fedor Would Beat Brock

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bjj1605
7/5/10 12:56:18AM
What did Saturday night prove?

That it's nearly impossible to be a full time MMA fighter at the highest level AND Keep your day job.

That lack of a gas tank will turn a W into an L.

That Brock Lesnar is one tough SOB and that he's evolving.

Above all though, his performance convinced me that Fedor Emelianenko WOULD beat Brock Lesnar. Fedor has knock out power. He's put down big guys in the HW division with a single well placed punch. See Brett Rogers for more info. The fear and discomfort that Brock showed when he was on his feet against a superior striker are really telling. If he did the same thing against Fedor that he did against Carwin he would get dropped again. If he was still conscious Fedor would not make the mistake that Carwin made.

Fedor is so experienced, technical, and patient. If he were on top of Brock he would pick his shots. Improve position. Look for submissions. Did you see when Brock stood up? How he exposed his back to Shane Carwin? That has Fedor vs Mark Hunt written all over it. Fedor would've locked up a RNC and been on his way back to Russia with the UFC HW Title. Perhaps more importantly Fedor isn't going to gas out after 5 minutes of fighting.

There's no doubt in my mind that Fedor could defend enough of Brock's takedowns to land the shot he needed. Even if Brock did get on top of him, so what? Fedor has submission victories over wrestlers like Marc Coleman and Kevin Randleman. As well as over monsters like Hong Man Choi (who dwarfs Brock Lesnar and Shane Carwin). He can deal with wrestling and he can deal with size. Put them both together and it might be more difficult, but the speed and precision of his arm bars would have Brock as much on edge as Carwin's punches did.

At the end of the day I still have Brock ranked #1 at HW. He's coming off of a win in a title fight and Fedor is coming off of a loss. But there's no doubt in my mind after the performance he put on on Saturday (as entertaining and impressive in some ways as it was) that Fedor Emelianenko is still the better fighter.


Flame On
Jackelope
7/5/10 1:03:57AM
I don't necessarily 100% agree or disagree. Although on the whole I mostly agree.

There are other factors to be considered for sure, but at the same time if the two fought next week you'd see my pick locked up with Fedor Emelianenko as the winner.
warglory
7/5/10 2:11:07AM
Fedor has never fought a wrestler of Brock's pedigree, size and strength (yes, Brock's wrestling is much more effective than both Randleman's and Coleman's). There's no way to say Fedor would stuff his take downs. Could he potentially beat him in the stand up dept? Yes, but I think Fedor would get owned if Brock took him down.
chickmagnet
7/5/10 2:33:00AM
I think it would be interesting, but with a fight like that anything could happen.


Either Fedor would flurry like Carwin did, not gas out and finish Brock, OR Brock would slam Fedor and pound him, with having to watch out for sub attempts of course...
ziegler3334
7/5/10 12:26:21PM
Fedor is great, I'll admit, but he is much smaller than Brock. He won't be able to catch Brock like he did Arlovski, with a clean shot like that. I think it would look very similar to Lesnar/Couture. The pure weight differential would decide the fight more than anything else.
Aether
7/5/10 1:27:46PM
I think we've seen that Brock's wrestling is not as good in MMA as his credentials indicate. Randy outwrestled him giving up around 50 pounds, Carwin dealt with his wrestling easily until he gassed despite everyone saying his div II credentials couldn't compare with Brock's. He's a good wrestler, yes, but people are still acting like he's the best wrestler in the division and I think it's becoming clear that there are people that can outwrestle him, whether it's because of the time he spent away from competitive wrestling, or just the transition to MMA.

I agree that Fedor would win this fight and be able to successfully defend Brock's takedowns. Sambo has its roots in wrestling and is far more similar to MMA than any other discipline. Fedor has pretty high level wrestling himself in a style that's more directly applicable to MMA.
marcoDGK
7/5/10 2:29:29PM

Posted by Jackelope

I don't necessarily 100% agree or disagree. Although on the whole I mostly agree.



Yeah, I feel the same way. I think, Lesnor exposed some major weakness in his stand up. I can see Fedor really taking advantage of that. If Brock took him down... which I think he can do easy because of his size and strength, Fedor has technique to submit him. No way Lesnor could stand up with him. Fedor speed with his hands is what has got him so many victories and Lesnor looked like a ish sandwich on his feet.
bjj1605
7/5/10 2:37:59PM

Posted by Aether

I think we've seen that Brock's wrestling is not as good in MMA as his credentials indicate. Randy outwrestled him giving up around 50 pounds, Carwin dealt with his wrestling easily until he gassed despite everyone saying his div II credentials couldn't compare with Brock's. He's a good wrestler, yes, but people are still acting like he's the best wrestler in the division and I think it's becoming clear that there are people that can outwrestle him, whether it's because of the time he spent away from competitive wrestling, or just the transition to MMA.

I agree that Fedor would win this fight and be able to successfully defend Brock's takedowns. Sambo has its roots in wrestling and is far more similar to MMA than any other discipline. Fedor has pretty high level wrestling himself in a style that's more directly applicable to MMA.



That's pretty much what I was thinking. Randy gave him all he could handle in the wrestling department despite being WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY smaller. Carwin stopped his shots pretty easily in the first round, though I only remember Brock attempting 2 of them, one of which was a desperation shot.

I think Fedor would be able to move and punish Brock while defending or even reversing the takedowns. He might not have the size but he would have a speed and technique advantage. I think his technique is superior everywhere, including wrestling. Not to mention that Brock looks very nervous and uncomfortable in exchanges. The problem with that is you don't fully commit to a shot if you're worried about getting hit in the process, a reason I feel explains why his wrestling hasn't translated as well as his credentials would predict.

But whenever I think of the fight I keep seeing Brock getting arm bared. I just think that Fedor is savy enough to maintain guard if he got taken down. And on his back those arm bars come quick and with perfect technique. Brock has long arms and I think it would be a piece of cake for Fedor to lock one up.
mrsmiley
7/5/10 3:23:06PM

I think Fedor would still take Brock,yet I feel Carwin would TKO Fedor.
BlueSkiesBurn
7/5/10 4:49:37PM

Posted by Aether

I think we've seen that Brock's wrestling is not as good in MMA as his credentials indicate. Randy outwrestled him giving up around 50 pounds, Carwin dealt with his wrestling easily until he gassed despite everyone saying his div II credentials couldn't compare with Brock's. He's a good wrestler, yes, but people are still acting like he's the best wrestler in the division and I think it's becoming clear that there are people that can outwrestle him, whether it's because of the time he spent away from competitive wrestling, or just the transition to MMA.

I agree that Fedor would win this fight and be able to successfully defend Brock's takedowns. Sambo has its roots in wrestling and is far more similar to MMA than any other discipline. Fedor has pretty high level wrestling himself in a style that's more directly applicable to MMA.



Thank you for saying what I was saying before this fight even took place. Carwin exploited Lesnar in this fight. Lesnar's wresting has actually proven to be ineffective against HW's with a wrestling pedigree. His stand up is CLEARLY suspect. I think that Cain is going to take that title from Lesnar. He's got cardio for days, his wrestling is superb, his stand-up is better than Carwin's...etc...I think Brock is in trouble against Velasquez. It's pretty clear that the only things you need to beat Brock are a chin, solid wrestling base, and a gas tank.
Frost_777
7/7/10 3:13:53PM
After the carwin fight im 10x more sure that fedor would win, the only thing brock has that fedor hasn't dealt with is his wrestling and that has seemed to not be an issue with anyone in the ufc with a wrestling background. The fight would probably look alot like fedor vs Big Tim because brock wont be able to take fedor's massive speed and his punching power and then give up his back for the choke.
warglory
7/7/10 5:51:12PM
I'm sorry guys, Fedor is NOT a wrestler, he is sambo, yet you all think he'd be able to shrug off Lesnar solely because of his sambo background. I'll say it again, Fedor has never faced anyone of the caliber as Brock in terms of wrestling ability, all combined with amazing size and speed. If Brock took Fedor, he could not get back up.

However, if Fedor manages to keep it standing, it's going to be a bad night for Brock.
prozacnation1978
7/7/10 7:02:56PM
Brock really impressed me a lot. He will beat cain and roy
I still think dos santos is fast. I wanna see that match up
As for rankings. And not being biased. Brock is number one heavyweight. And top 5 pound for pound fighter in the world
BustedKnuckle
7/7/10 7:52:46PM
I really think the size difference would hurt Fedor. I believe Brocks power would suprise Fedor on the ground. Especialy if Brock was in top position. And I know Fedor has fought "BIG" guys before. But none that have near the athleticism that Brock has. The Hong Man Choi fight is a throw away fight to me. Not bashing.........but!!! Schilt got beat by him in a UD...not very impressive against the BIGGEST guys he fought. Also I dont think Fedor hits nearly as hard as Shane!......just opinion, but it would be hard to dispute! I mean Fedor has hit a lot of guys in the face and they havent wilted. Until Brock Carwin crushed faces for a living. And with his 5xl gloves I mean FACES! He doesnt punch you in the nose, temple, or the jaw. He punches your whole FACE!! I am not a Brock nuthugger. Far from it actually. I lost a lot of money betting on Carwin!!!!
Pookie
7/7/10 8:56:37PM
I would feel more comfortable with my money on cain than fedor (vs. brock). Fedor v. Brock is a 50/50 fight to me. I would still pick fedor, but i wouldnt feel as comfortable as i would with cain.

To keep this in the right context though, i want to re-iterate that i wouldnt pick brock in either of these two matches.

Fedors strengths are his impeccable striking defense, his destructive hands, his crafty and underrated clinch game, his grappling transitions sweeps and subs, and his ground and pound.

Cains strengths are his endurance, his cardio, his wrestling( from a technical perspective its the best in the division), his pressure, and his well-rounded stand-up arsenal.

Brocks strengths is his down-syndrome level retard strength, his battering ram esque ground and pound, his agility(relative to his size), his wrestling(from a kinetic energy standpoint), His reach, and a true heavyweight jaw.

If Brock fought Cain i feel that Velasquez has the right tools to shut down brocks game, and has a better chance in doing so as the fight gets longer. So even if Brock has success early, his chances of continuing success exponentially dwindles as every round passes. Cain's built for trench wars, and brock is simply too big to fight a high-tempo fight at a constant rate for 5 rounds. His chances of finishing velasquez early are marginal at best, considering his tools to finish all rely on the ground. In this fight, i dont like Brocks odds as much as against fedor, and here's why...

If Brock fought Fedor, theres no evidence to suggest that Fedor can stop the takedown once lesnar grabs ahold of him. Such is the folly of Judo as your takedown base. Fedor would however have success with his footwork, keeping himself out of the pocket and thus having a better chance at avoiding Brocks bullrush takedowns. But once Fedor slips a punch and counters, which he undoubtably could do considering his reflexes and timing, its basically a coin flip. He either gets taken down while hes flat-footed or he clips lesnar hard enough to put him on the defensive. Fedor has always landed his hardest punches on opponents that dont move their head(See sylvia, zulu, rogers, etc...), so him hurting lesnar isnt that big of an assumption to say its 50/50, with the other option being him getting taken down.
And this is where fedor's chances deteriorate, Fedor has awesome transitions, but lesnar is big enough to just lay on him, keeping him on his back, and gnp him thoroughly. With Fedor's size disadvantage, i just dont see himself avoiding this area of the fight without expending enough energy that he gasses himself out later in the fight. And Fedor getting the sub just doesnt seem likely from the bottom. He's phenomenal with his top game(bar werdum), but i dont see him getting the chance to enforce these grappling skills as lesnar is big enough to just muscle himself off his back.
I cant see Brock winning on the feet, barring a miracle. And i cant see fedor winning on the ground, barring a knockdown which is possible because every fight starts on the feet.
I see it as 50/50, but id still pick fedor because i believe in the dream.

And Cain, well, i think he'll stomp a hole in Brocks ass bigger than his Diverticulitis.
cmill21
7/7/10 9:09:00PM
I think Fedor's balance and striking are the difference. Using the cage to turn brock to the fence and then teeing off is how I see that fight going. However if Fedor fought Carwin and couldn't get him down, that is the fight I see him losing in the UFC.
Boo_Radley21
7/7/10 9:31:18PM
If Lesnar took that many shots from Carwin and coming out in the second looking as fresh as he did in the first I'd have to say I wouldn't doubt he'd be able to survive Fedor's attack. I mean don't get me wrong I'm not trying to take anything away from Fedor, he's got scary striking and ground and pound but he's too damn small. Carwin is the only guy Lesnar will face that is the same size and strength as him, and the size advantage he would have over Fedor is too much IMO. Yea Fedor has beat guys but Lesnar is a hell of a lot better and stronger than Choi or Zulu...
mshalosky
7/8/10 9:34:32AM
I strongly disagree with you saying Fedor would stop enough of Brocks takedowns. Watch or re-watch his fight with Arona to see why. Brock may not be as big as HMC but he is on a whole nother level(snl) atheletically. I think this fight would look alot like the King Mo-Mousasi fight. But Brock may even get the finish.
cmill21
7/8/10 11:44:11AM

Posted by mshalosky

I strongly disagree with you saying Fedor would stop enough of Brocks takedowns. Watch or re-watch his fight with Arona to see why. Brock may not be as big as HMC but he is on a whole nother level(snl) atheletically. I think this fight would look alot like the King Mo-Mousasi fight. But Brock may even get the finish.



Watch a fight from 10 years ago to tell us something about today? Come on broooo.
mshalosky
7/8/10 5:27:17PM

Posted by mshalosky

I strongly disagree with you saying Fedor would stop enough of Brocks takedowns. Watch or re-watch his fight with Arona to see why. Brock may not be as big as HMC but he is on a whole nother level(snl) atheletically. I think this fight would look alot like the King Mo-Mousasi fight. But Brock may even get the finish.
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Watch a fight from 10 years ago to tell us something about today? Come on broooo.


Well its hard to name alot of fights from someone who fights like once or twice a year.Besides, who else has he faced with a wrestling background??? The only person I can think of is Coleman and Coleman is like 70 lbs lighter than Brock and less atheletic and he still took him down a few times. O and Randleman who suplexed him on his head. Fact is Fedor doesnt have much takedown defense.
cmill21
7/8/10 8:08:22PM
Ussually Fedor has no problem being down there. He ussually ends up in a position of strength at the end of the takedown with his balance. He could end up being taken down by Brock, but then he could get brocks arm, roll for a leg lock etc. Fedor is not one dimensional.
Gogoplatapus
7/8/10 8:21:46PM
I'm not reading all these posts, so forgive me if it's been said, but Carwin would beat Brock.
Pookie
7/9/10 6:44:12AM

Posted by Gogoplatapus

Carwin would beat Brock.



Avatar Bet?
bjj1605
7/9/10 12:30:56PM

Posted by mshalosky


Posted by mshalosky

I strongly disagree with you saying Fedor would stop enough of Brocks takedowns. Watch or re-watch his fight with Arona to see why. Brock may not be as big as HMC but he is on a whole nother level(snl) atheletically. I think this fight would look alot like the King Mo-Mousasi fight. But Brock may even get the finish.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Watch a fight from 10 years ago to tell us something about today? Come on broooo.


Well its hard to name alot of fights from someone who fights like once or twice a year.Besides, who else has he faced with a wrestling background??? The only person I can think of is Coleman and Coleman is like 70 lbs lighter than Brock and less atheletic and he still took him down a few times. O and Randleman who suplexed him on his head. Fact is Fedor doesnt have much takedown defense.



In his Prime Coleman was about 230-245 and ripped to s**t. Fedor submitted him twice.

Coleman was taking guys down and pounding them before Brock knew what MMA is.
mshalosky
7/9/10 1:12:04PM


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Posted by mshalosky



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Posted by mshalosky

I strongly disagree with you saying Fedor would stop enough of Brocks takedowns. Watch or re-watch his fight with Arona to see why. Brock may not be as big as HMC but he is on a whole nother level(snl) atheletically. I think this fight would look alot like the King Mo-Mousasi fight. But Brock may even get the finish.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Watch a fight from 10 years ago to tell us something about today? Come on broooo.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Well its hard to name alot of fights from someone who fights like once or twice a year.Besides, who else has he faced with a wrestling background??? The only person I can think of is Coleman and Coleman is like 70 lbs lighter than Brock and less atheletic and he still took him down a few times. O and Randleman who suplexed him on his head. Fact is Fedor doesnt have much takedown defense.
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In his Prime Coleman was about 230-245 and ripped to s**t. Fedor submitted him twice.

Coleman was taking guys down and pounding them before Brock knew what MMA is.


Yeah, he did submit a one-dimensional wrestler twice by armbar. But, Coleman being 230-245 is similiar size to Fedor. How would he handle a behemoth 280 lbs wrestler with speed to match fedor's? I strongly dislike Brock but, IMO he would destroy Fedor.
copcopps
7/9/10 1:29:48PM

Posted by prozacnation1978

Brock really impressed me a lot. He will beat cain and roy
I still think dos santos is fast. I wanna see that match up



I would like to see Dos Santos just on the fact I'm a nuthugger of him, champ or not, he's a great fighter to watch and pretty good to boot.

As for Brock beating Roy and Cain, I say he could beat Big Country (which is sad since I like Nelson) Just because Brock has great control and is a lot faster. But Cain? I seriously think Cain would give Lensar some headaches. Cain's just as good a wrestler as Carwin and just as fast, probably even faster since he's not carrying weight on him
Pookie
7/9/10 3:24:17PM
Coleman in his prime was way bigger than Velasquez, i think 230-245 is a gross undershot.
warglory
7/9/10 9:44:13PM
Coleman's prime was against people with no take down defense or scrambling abilities. He was never in shape, ever, and once he got to PRIDE he was exposed (despite winning the grand prix). I won't call the man overrated because he took advantage of the competition during his time, but once you figure out Coleman, he doesn't stand a chance.
Gogoplatapus
7/10/10 12:47:41AM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by Gogoplatapus

Carwin would beat Brock.



Avatar Bet?



Ya for sure, don't forget.
bjj1605
7/10/10 8:01:24PM

Posted by Pookie

Coleman in his prime was way bigger than Velasquez, i think 230-245 is a gross undershot.



That's just the highest I remember seeing him listed at. He could very well have been bigger. I'll give props to anyone who can find out his actual highest weight.
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