Would you be in favor of making premature stoppages NC's

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POLL: NC's for premature stoppages
Yeah 0% (0)
No 55% (16)
Depends on the situation 38% (11)
Some other idea (please explain) 7% (2)
EvenFlow
1/31/10 1:42:18PM
Conan vs Saku is the perfect example from a horrible stoppage to an awesome win, which ended up showing who the better fighter was instead of controversy and unanswered questions. Obviously we cant have immediate rematches on the same night like that anymore but some refs think they're bulletproof and can get away with bad judgement calls. The NC rule would sort of be a way to "ref the ref" so to speak and keep a better track record of that ref.

It's obviously a different story today and zuffa has no say but shouldnt the commissions at least consider this notion to bail out fighters from bad calls? A good point was made about Grice last night. The guy isnt fighting anymore and is becoming a police officer because Troy Waugh made one of the worst stoppages of that year and inevitably ended his run in the big show. And for a lot of fighters you only get one shot at the big time.
Kpro
1/31/10 1:45:10PM
I personally think it is too "gray area" to ever patrol like that.

But getting instant replay in place is a great start.

Maybe having AC's with ears that can hear words would be a good second start.
EvenFlow
1/31/10 1:55:18PM

Posted by Kpro

I personally think it is too "gray area" to ever patrol like that.

But getting instant replay in place is a great start.

Maybe having AC's with ears that can hear words would be a good second start.



You make two good points about having ears on AC's and the obvious one which should already be in place, the instant replay. But dont you think that would minimize the grey area substanially from good to bad stoppage? I think a great example of a recent fight was Hendricks vs Amir, where Johny wasnt even hitting Amir at all when he was getting to his feet and Mirgamiata called the fight.
NatedawgThaM
1/31/10 4:58:46PM
No because I think their are a lot of fights were one fighter is dominating but the finish is questionable so it would take away the win from a dominating performance. And I dont think you could say just make competitive fights with premature stoppages a no contests because then fighters being dominated with a premature stoppage would be arguing until there black and blue that there fights were compeitive and then you'd have to draw the line between a competitive and dominating fight which could get tricky since you have to argue if a guy was actually dominant enough. Yvel-Dos Santos is a great example because I think it was a badass exciting fight that was stopped a little bit early since Yvel was still moving and I think he could of kept moving to a better position to were he could have gotten back up. I thought it was stopped quick but then theres another problem, then it becomes a great argument to if it was stopped early or not. So then you have to classify the boundarys of a premature stoppage.

I think if anything you should make fights that end with an injury a NC. Kevins Burns getting a TKO after clearly poking Anthony Johnson in the eye on several occasions is complete BS. Maybe it was an accident so it should have been a NC. Also the Jones-Hamil fight should be a NC since the elbows had no effect on whether hamil could continue, he didn't want to continue because of his hurt shoulder which he didn't get on a illegal elbow to the face.
jae_1833
1/31/10 5:59:26PM
I think there is more ways to deal with a premie stop than a NC.....fine the ref....that'll learn them, but only in extreme circumstances. Instant replay is a long time coming and perhaps even overdue. Lastly I think that people think that someone is moving, squirming = intelligently defending, it's not if your getting punched in the face like crazy....i.e. Diaz vs Fickett...where Fickett was spinning on his back in the turtle position while Diaz was demolishing his face.
Twenty20Dollars
1/31/10 6:27:59PM
No. I would rather have someone win and lose. I dislike NC's and Draw's.

Plus *who* decides if the stoppage is premature, the judges? No way.
warglory
1/31/10 7:00:58PM

Posted by jae_1833

I think there is more ways to deal with a premie stop than a NC.....fine the ref....that'll learn them, but only in extreme circumstances. Instant replay is a long time coming and perhaps even overdue. Lastly I think that people think that someone is moving, squirming = intelligently defending, it's not if your getting punched in the face like crazy....i.e. Diaz vs Fickett...where Fickett was spinning on his back in the turtle position while Diaz was demolishing his face.



You can't fine a ref, that's just silly. Say what you want about bad calls, but we have to put faith in the decisions of our judges because they have the best position during a fight to make decisions.
EvenFlow
1/31/10 8:31:44PM

Posted by Twenty20Dollars

No. I would rather have someone win and lose. I dislike NC's and Draw's.

Plus *who* decides if the stoppage is premature, the judges? No way.



What do the judges have to do with anything. And yeah I'll take a draw and NC over a bad stoppage or bad decision anyday.
postman
1/31/10 8:42:22PM
This would make it more likely for refs to let it go too long for fear of a fine or simply looking bad and getting his decision over turned then we will complain that the refs are letting guys take unneccessary abuse. The answer is more defined rules and better train of both judges and refs
Twenty20Dollars
1/31/10 8:59:09PM

Posted by EvenFlow


Posted by Twenty20Dollars

No. I would rather have someone win and lose. I dislike NC's and Draw's.

Plus *who* decides if the stoppage is premature, the judges? No way.



What do the judges have to do with anything. And yeah I'll take a draw and NC over a bad stoppage or bad decision anyday.



im saying who would decide if it was a premature stoppage, the commision after they review the fight?
kopower
1/31/10 9:19:41PM
I don't think they should be NC's. I like the idea of going to instant replay when a questionable stoppage happens. Have the ring side judges take a look at the tape and they can determine if the stoppage was justified. I think that would be best because they can hear and see everything that happened in the fight leading up to the stoppage.

I don't like the idea of having a commission look at a tape after the fight happens. That will just lead to a rematch if the stoppage was deemed premature. If the judges can do it during the match, at least the fight can be started again.

EvenFlow
1/31/10 10:25:39PM

Posted by kopower

I don't think they should be NC's. I like the idea of going to instant replay when a questionable stoppage happens. Have the ring side judges take a look at the tape and they can determine if the stoppage was justified. I think that would be best because they can hear and see everything that happened in the fight leading up to the stoppage.

I don't like the idea of having a commission look at a tape after the fight happens. That will just lead to a rematch if the stoppage was deemed premature. If the judges can do it during the match, at least the fight can be started again.




Right most will agree that a blatant bad stoppage should be reviewed, like AJ's poke (its a stoppage none the less). But yet people arnt willing to put an NC on it, why not? what else would you do with a bad stoppage that was reviewed and proven as such? just keep the fight going after its been stopped? I dont see why so many people are against it when it would be the only viable solution other than just forgetting about it and letting the refs continue to be bulletproof. I realize theres a human error factor in all this and theyre just doing thier best but reffing has to evolve along with the judges and fighters who get better every year.
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
2/1/10 12:44:43AM
With the threat of premature stoppages being ruled NC's, the refs will fear for losing their jobs and let it go on too long . Every match will end up looking like Saku vs Smirnovas( Incredibly entertaining fights , but put the fighters at long term risk and wont help the sports brutal image , a much needed thing for breaking into these new markets. ) Heres a sicc genghis con version of saku vs smirnovas ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvwG4attE1c

Also , what happens when the Athletic commission rules a very obvious legit stoppage as premature , giving the guy a NC when he clearly should of won. People will be furious , i dont like the idea of giving these guys more power .
Twenty20Dollars
2/2/10 12:11:54AM
plus what about win bonuses, do they get that money taken away if the fight is turned to a NC. They already dont make much money and need those win bonuses.
EvenFlow
2/2/10 3:26:08PM
I didnt vote yes, but in some circumstances I'd like it used as does half of the poll.
CwB
2/4/10 5:30:37PM

Posted by Kpro

I personally think it is too "gray area" to ever patrol like that.

But getting instant replay in place is a great start.

Maybe having AC's with ears that can hear words would be a good second start.




There is one major problem with using Instant replay to possibly continue a fight after it has been called over.

The amount of time it would take to review the call and then reset the fighters would be a huge benefit to the potential losing fighter.
In almost all cases of premature stoppages the losing fighter is, at least, in a rocked or slightly dazed state.
Also, in a lot of cases, the potential winning fighter will unleash his adrenaline and fight at a full throttle pace when they smell blood before a finish.

It just seems like to much of an unfair advantage for the dazed fighter to recieve extra time to regain his composure while the potential winning fighter just blew his load thinking the fight was over.

I think this issue will never be solved but having better Ref's would decrease the number of times this happens a year...


BUT using instant replay will still benefit the sport, but only in reviewing whether the final blows were legal or not. EXAMPLE : using instant replay to immediately overturn A. Johnson loss by TKO (to Burns) to possibly a NC or AJ win by Disqualification
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