What Exactly Warrants A Political Thread?

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warglory
1/13/09 6:45:04PM
I was just notified via mail that my global warming article I posted was wrong because it was "political." This completely baffled me because it was simply a news article with a single sentence in regards to it from myself. Now, I didn't read all the responses before it was removed (at least I don't think), so I am assuming it was removed because of some sort of discussion that occurred as a result of this article.

I am not pissed or anything, but I am frustrated, because I am really not exactly sure what qualifies as a political thread and what does not in the eyes of the mods. I don't want to live in fear that I may post something that could usher me a nice warning from a mod, and I don't think I should have to email a mod every time I feel iffy about a subject I want to post. I think that would be BS. With that said, is it possible for us as a community to lay out some ground rules about what exactly qualifies as political? This is a serious question because I don't want to waste my time engaging in a thread if its just going to get deleted.

Pookie
1/13/09 7:11:57PM
i agree, it seems like threads are being taken down just for an utterance of something that could be construed as a political topic.
Shawn91111
1/13/09 7:15:47PM
Agreed. The politcal threads were deleted because people were never going to see eye to eye and leading to fights etc, but isnt that what goes on in the MMA threads?
telnights
1/13/09 7:36:54PM
I'm not the one that pulled the topic down but global warming is very much political. Its classic left wing (its man made) vs right wing (its not man made). All the left vs right topics always end with someone getting banned just about because a lot of people seam to take politics and religion over board and cant have a civil conversation about it.

If it has anything to do with the workings of the government or is basically a hot topic in government its most likely going to get flagged as political. If its has anything to with a higher power or lack there of its most likley going to get flagged as religious.
zephead
1/13/09 8:00:56PM
All's it takes to turn into the gutter is a post like this. I didn't delete the thread, but this is what starts a flame war. Can't be civil.


Here's a post in th thread
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm not even going to read that crap. The earth's climate shifts gradually, yet constantly. The ice caps have melted before, and its going to happen again. We're certainly not doing ourselves any favors. But this shit would be going on whether we were here or not.

I don't claim to be extremely educated. And I don't know shit about politics. But I've always felt that the global warming hysteria was fueled to a spectacular degree by liberals who were looking for a platform stance which aids in defying and opposing the big oil connections of the previous conservative administration.

I'll plead ignorance to pretty much every post which proceeds me in this thread. Because like I said, it's no where near my area of expertise. Just my outsider view.


ncordless
1/13/09 8:15:30PM
I reported the thread. Global Warming is a political topic which divides people along mostly party lines (Although it shouldn't).

I was not very fond of the ban on political discussion when it was introduced but now that it has been put in place I have changed my mind and now support it. I find myself a lot happier now that I don't feel compelled to argue against what I see as ignorance and idiocy.

WAR intelligent mma discussion and funny topics... down with endless bickering about stuff that people don't know anything about except what a talking head told them.
Shawn91111
1/13/09 9:07:41PM

Posted by ncordless

I reported the thread. Global Warming is a political topic which divides people along mostly party lines (Although it shouldn't).

I was not very fond of the ban on political discussion when it was introduced but now that it has been put in place I have changed my mind and now support it. I find myself a lot happier now that I don't feel compelled to argue against what I see as ignornce and idiocy.

WAR intelligent mma discussion and funny topics... down with endless bickering about stuff that people don't know anything about except what a talking head told them.



So you reply to the thread and then report it?
warglory
1/13/09 10:20:38PM

Posted by telnights

I'm not the one that pulled the topic down but global warming is very much political. Its classic left wing (its man made) vs right wing (its not man made). All the left vs right topics always end with someone getting banned just about because a lot of people seam to take politics and religion over board and cant have a civil conversation about it.

If it has anything to do with the workings of the government or is basically a hot topic in government its most likely going to get flagged as political. If its has anything to with a higher power or lack there of its most likley going to get flagged as religious.



So what your saying is any post concerning global warming is banned because of the possibility that it might spark too heated a debate? My concern is that mods will have too much power to dictate on their own whim what can be construed as being political or religious. While I do have a problem with this entire policy, I can live with it as long as I know what my boundaries are.

If some resolution is not met, I'll probably quit posting all together in the non-MMA forums, because I am kind of getting sick of having to limit my posts to favorite beers and funny picture threads. We, as a community, should be able to have serious, intellectual NON mma related discourse. This isn't a threat mind you, I just want everyone to know my opinion and what will likely become of my participation in non-mma related topics if this is simply ignored.
ncordless
1/13/09 10:27:09PM

Posted by Shawn91111


Posted by ncordless

I reported the thread. Global Warming is a political topic which divides people along mostly party lines (Although it shouldn't).

I was not very fond of the ban on political discussion when it was introduced but now that it has been put in place I have changed my mind and now support it. I find myself a lot happier now that I don't feel compelled to argue against what I see as ignorance and idiocy.

WAR intelligent mma discussion and funny topics... down with endless bickering about stuff that people don't know anything about except what a talking head told them.



So you reply to the thread and then report it?



No... I reported it and when it didn't get taken down I replied. I said in the thread that I thought it was a political thread.
tuvok500
1/13/09 10:47:12PM

Posted by ncordless


Posted by Shawn91111


Posted by ncordless

I reported the thread. Global Warming is a political topic which divides people along mostly party lines (Although it shouldn't).

I was not very fond of the ban on political discussion when it was introduced but now that it has been put in place I have changed my mind and now support it. I find myself a lot happier now that I don't feel compelled to argue against what I see as ignorance and idiocy.

WAR intelligent mma discussion and funny topics... down with endless bickering about stuff that people don't know anything about except what a talking head told them.



So you reply to the thread and then report it?



No... I reported it and when it didn't get taken down I replied. I said in the thread that I thought it was a political thread.



I am sorry man but it is not because politicians just recently opened their eyes about the global warming that all of a sudden the subject is political.

According to your logic we will have to stop talking about MMA because the politicians are actually talking about it in political institutions and some give interviews about it in the news, and i am talking about CNN not fox sport !!

Politic is everywhere, without politic we would not even have a place like here since Internet broadband are regulated by laws made by politicians.

So the real question is the free speech that you don't like, the same free speech responsible for every little step forward in our society.



telnights
1/14/09 12:17:31AM

Posted by warglory
So what your saying is any post concerning global warming is banned because of the possibility that it might spark too heated a debate? My concern is that mods will have too much power to dictate on their own whim what can be construed as being political or religious. While I do have a problem with this entire policy, I can live with it as long as I know what my boundaries are.

If some resolution is not met, I'll probably quit posting all together in the non-MMA forums, because I am kind of getting sick of having to limit my posts to favorite beers and funny picture threads. We, as a community, should be able to have serious, intellectual NON mma related discourse. This isn't a threat mind you, I just want everyone to know my opinion and what will likely become of my participation in non-mma related topics if this is simply ignored.



Not at all but once it starts going down that road which it will it always does the topic will be flagged as political and removed. Your welcome to post non mma related topics as long as it isn't political or religious. You may not agree with the rule heck I wish we didn't have to have a rule like this in place but the fact is that for every well thought out post when it comes to political or religious topics there is one that is attacking the other persons views and this causes nothing but trouble for the community and for the MODs. I also understand your passionate in your views but there lot out there that don't see the same as you and are just as passionate in their views. Which always leads to a flame fest and I'm not just making this up it always without fail ends with someone getting warned or out right banned. We don't have a book we read from as MODs that says this is and isn't political or not. But in most cases its just common sense if it is or isn't political.
warglory
1/14/09 12:44:14AM

Posted by telnights


Posted by warglory
So what your saying is any post concerning global warming is banned because of the possibility that it might spark too heated a debate? My concern is that mods will have too much power to dictate on their own whim what can be construed as being political or religious. While I do have a problem with this entire policy, I can live with it as long as I know what my boundaries are.

If some resolution is not met, I'll probably quit posting all together in the non-MMA forums, because I am kind of getting sick of having to limit my posts to favorite beers and funny picture threads. We, as a community, should be able to have serious, intellectual NON mma related discourse. This isn't a threat mind you, I just want everyone to know my opinion and what will likely become of my participation in non-mma related topics if this is simply ignored.



Not at all but once it starts going down that road which it will it always does the topic will be flagged as political and removed. Your welcome to post non mma related topics as long as it isn't political or religious. You may not agree with the rule heck I wish we didn't have to have a rule like this in place but the fact is that for every well thought out post when it comes to political or religious topics there is one that is attacking the other persons views and this causes nothing but trouble for the community and for the MODs. I also understand your passionate in your views but there lot out there that don't see the same as you and are just as passionate in their views. Which always leads to a flame fest and I'm not just making this up it always without fail ends with someone getting warned or out right banned. We don't have a book we read from as MODs that says this is and isn't political or not. But in most cases its just common sense if it is or isn't political.



I appreciate your very reasonable response, and my only reply to you is that I am not really sure what serious debates we could have that wouldn't potentially fall into the realm of politics and religion, and not only that, there are other topics (such as philosophy) that could very easily possess posts that incite people as well. I just don't know where the limitations begin and end to be honest, and I don't want to be the one, as the thread starter, getting warned because one or two assholes ruin a perfectly good thread.
warglory
1/14/09 12:48:41AM

Posted by zephead

All's it takes to turn into the gutter is a post like this. I didn't delete the thread, but this is what starts a flame war. Can't be civil.


Here's a post in th thread
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm not even going to read that crap. The earth's climate shifts gradually, yet constantly. The ice caps have melted before, and its going to happen again. We're certainly not doing ourselves any favors. But this shit would be going on whether we were here or not.

I don't claim to be extremely educated. And I don't know shit about politics. But I've always felt that the global warming hysteria was fueled to a spectacular degree by liberals who were looking for a platform stance which aids in defying and opposing the big oil connections of the previous conservative administration.

I'll plead ignorance to pretty much every post which proceeds me in this thread. Because like I said, it's no where near my area of expertise. Just my outsider view.





To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure why this is that bad of a post. He calls man made global warming crap, but he also pleads ignorance to a certain degree. Anyone who is set off by this shouldn't be posting in a forum.
bojangalz
1/14/09 8:47:23AM

Posted by warglory

[I'm not even going to read that crap. The earth's climate shifts gradually, yet constantly. The ice caps have melted before, and its going to happen again. We're certainly not doing ourselves any favors. But this shit would be going on whether we were here or not.

I don't claim to be extremely educated. And I don't know shit about politics. But I've always felt that the global warming hysteria was fueled to a spectacular degree by liberals who were looking for a platform stance which aids in defying and opposing the big oil connections of the previous conservative administration.

I'll plead ignorance to pretty much every post which proceeds me in this thread. Because like I said, it's no where near my area of expertise. Just my outsider view.




Appearantly I'm the guilty party here. That was my post. First off, my bad for getting the thread knocked down. Sorry about that glory. I'm probably better off saving my opinions for topics I actually know something about. I guess I didn't even know that Politics and Religion were "no, no" topics. When did that happen? (Probably for the better, they are the two biggest hot buttons for discussion out there)

I'll do my best to stick to what I know from now on. (Which isn't much).
Jackelope
1/14/09 8:48:20AM
Warglory- You're right on all accounts, but the rule stands. We all understand your frustration. It was a tough decision to make, and some of us were strongly against it. The consensus is that if you want to speak politics/religion then you should go find another forum.

Believe me, bro.. I was firmly against it, but now that it's in place I have no problems enforcing it.

You won't get a warning or a ban for someone else turning your thread down a political road. I honestly can't think of a mod that would do that to you. If someone gets all political on you just don't get involved in a flame war back and forth and you should be free and clear.

Again, I cannot stress enough that your worries are heard and sympathized for, but all the same there is no way in hell the rule is changing right now.
DCRage
1/14/09 8:49:16AM

Posted by bojangalz


Posted by warglory

[I'm not even going to read that crap. The earth's climate shifts gradually, yet constantly. The ice caps have melted before, and its going to happen again. We're certainly not doing ourselves any favors. But this shit would be going on whether we were here or not.

I don't claim to be extremely educated. And I don't know shit about politics. But I've always felt that the global warming hysteria was fueled to a spectacular degree by liberals who were looking for a platform stance which aids in defying and opposing the big oil connections of the previous conservative administration.

I'll plead ignorance to pretty much every post which proceeds me in this thread. Because like I said, it's no where near my area of expertise. Just my outsider view.




Appearantly I'm the guilty party here. That was my post. First off, my bad for getting the thread knocked down. Sorry about that glory. I'm probably better off saving my opinions for topics I actually know something about. I guess I didn't even know that Politics and Religion were "no, no" topics. When did that happen? (Probably for the better, they are the two biggest hot buttons for discussion out there)

I'll do my best to stick to what I know from now on. (Which isn't much).


A little over a month ago is when the rule change was made regarding the topics. Sticky threads were posted in both the Locker Room and Padded Room.
bojangalz
1/14/09 9:59:31AM
My bad-

I almost never get into the forums. Usually just hit the "Today's Topics" Page. Sorry about that.
zephead
1/14/09 4:31:53PM

Posted by warglory


Posted by zephead

All's it takes to turn into the gutter is a post like this. I didn't delete the thread, but this is what starts a flame war. Can't be civil.


Here's a post in th thread
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm not even going to read that crap. The earth's climate shifts gradually, yet constantly. The ice caps have melted before, and its going to happen again. We're certainly not doing ourselves any favors. But this shit would be going on whether we were here or not.

I don't claim to be extremely educated. And I don't know shit about politics. But I've always felt that the global warming hysteria was fueled to a spectacular degree by liberals who were looking for a platform stance which aids in defying and opposing the big oil connections of the previous conservative administration.

I'll plead ignorance to pretty much every post which proceeds me in this thread. Because like I said, it's no where near my area of expertise. Just my outsider view.





To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure why this is that bad of a post. He calls man made global warming crap, but he also pleads ignorance to a certain degree. Anyone who is set off by this shouldn't be posting in a forum.




I was dead set against NOT allowing Political and Religious threads. I fought it tooth and nail. I was all for just banning members that stepped over the line. But the problem is, people are very passionate about Politics and Religion. We would lose a lot of good posters.


What ends up happening is, someone reads a tone in that post, sees the word: Liberal and then goes off. Did that poster post that to start a war, no he didn't. But with those two words: Liberal and Conservative, people go nuts.

I wish we could talk about Politics and Religion, but every single thread dealing with those two subjects, bannings have occured. Every single time a flame war has started. So the decision was made between deleting threads and banning people because of the passion that comes out, or keeping the members we have and getting rid of the subjects that start flame wars.
warglory
1/14/09 6:28:59PM
Listen guys, I am not asking you to completely revoke the rule, like I said, I understand the position you guys are in. However, it would be nice to have some more specific ground rules about what warrants threads that could be potentially deleted. If that's not possible, then I'll live with it and not post anymore serious topics, but it would be nice to know that mods have guidelines to follow when making judgment calls. If anything, that would make their jobs easier in explaining to thread starters exactly why their thread was deleted. Simply having a mod tell you that your thread no longer exists because it was political is very frustrating.
Jackelope
1/14/09 7:26:49PM

Posted by warglory

Listen guys, I am not asking you to completely revoke the rule, like I said, I understand the position you guys are in. However, it would be nice to have some more specific ground rules about what warrants threads that could be potentially deleted. If that's not possible, then I'll live with it and not post anymore serious topics, but it would be nice to know that mods have guidelines to follow when making judgment calls. If anything, that would make their jobs easier in explaining to thread starters exactly why their thread was deleted. Simply having a mod tell you that your thread no longer exists because it was political is very frustrating.



I'll tell you what- if you get a warning or a ban for posting something you didn't think was political (and especially if it isn't truly political) then you contact me. I will investigate it with a fine wire brush and fight tooth and nail for you as long as you're justified. As long as I'm a mod I can personally guarantee you that I will do everything within my power without being disrespectful to the other mods or admin's decisions to fight on your side if your case is warranted.

You can't possibly ask us to list all the things that could turn political, there's far too many. I assure you if the word republican, democrat, independent, socialist, libertarian, conservative, liberal, president, congress, senator, governor, bailout, etc. etc. shows up in a thread it will be considered political in nature. That goes along with any topic that involves global warming, war, race, abortion, etc. etc. Just use common sense.

As myself and zep already mentioned in our posts- Some of us strongly opposed and were vocal about the rule. In the end the forums have been much quieter and peaceful since it was implemented. So while it sucks we can't discuss these things, the rule has had a favorable outcome. Doesn't mean we're fans of it, but we'll enforce it because it passed. Allow me to paraphrase a quote from one of the higher ups of this site- "This is a private website, not a democracy." We do everything we can to keep it running smooth, but if we start getting into power struggles things turn ugly here. We've already seen it once, and LOTS of people got banned because of it. We don't want that again.
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