Edgar vs Henderson
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Edgar vs Henderson
Bubbles
2/26/12 10:44:40PM
i scored the fight 48-47 Edgar with him winning rounds 1 3 5. I had the fight 2-2 entering the final round where it was very close, I can see either guy winning it but I still believe Frankie won that final round. Bendo didn't outstrike Edgar by a whole lot each round, but takedowns have to be factored in - and in doing so, Edgar wins the effective grappling criteria by a landslide...add that to a slight striking advantage for Bendo and imo Edgar wins that round.
the damage done to Frankies face was all done in the first 2 rounds...you have to keep that in mind. His face didnt look too great entering each of the last 3 rounds and looked the same at the end of each round so visual damage in rounds 3-5 is misleading imo. I don't recall Edgar's body being a fresh red colour by all the "significant" kicks that landed...i mean that were caught.
it was a great fight, close to call, but I cannot see Bendo winning 4 rounds in that fight at all.
the damage done to Frankies face was all done in the first 2 rounds...you have to keep that in mind. His face didnt look too great entering each of the last 3 rounds and looked the same at the end of each round so visual damage in rounds 3-5 is misleading imo. I don't recall Edgar's body being a fresh red colour by all the "significant" kicks that landed...i mean that were caught.
it was a great fight, close to call, but I cannot see Bendo winning 4 rounds in that fight at all.
Kpro
2/27/12 4:10:39AM
Edgar had 5 takedowns to 1. Benson had 3 submission attempts to 0 and ground strikes were even at 17-17 which tells you what Edgar could (couldn't) do with his extra 4 takedowns. Edgar didn't attempt more strikes or land more strikes in *any* of the 5 rounds. I get that there are more fans of Edgar than Benson, and I picked Edgar, but if Edgar had won I would've considered it a huge robbery. There's a reason Miz still got paid his win bonus and Edgar didn't.
kingsmasher
2/27/12 10:38:29AM
I disagree with a lot of what I read here...
IMO in no way shoudl damage be teh casue of a decision...
But realistically I wish whatever they do they do it like that everywhere...Jeez obvious like Klingsbury against Maldonado I believe Klings won...Here he woulda lost...Same with Diego and Kampmann...
When you judge on how a fighter looks is pretty silly because everyones sking and able to absorb shots is different...Also based on nationality...
Frankie just looks a bloody mess on any shot that hits him.......Its just a point where he looked worse...
As for octagon control...Im almost against this totally...Some guys hvae better movement...
Like Diaz and Condit...Well Diaz bot absolutely zero points for chasing Condit around...
I really thoguht Frankie won the fight and teh absolute only shot Henderson landed signinficantly was the up kick...
Also sub attempts...has to be one of the dumbest stats ever if considered in scoring...I mean jeez in reality if you do not get teh submission what did it accomplish...Absolutely nothing...Now I would give it credence as real octagon control...
IMO in no way shoudl damage be teh casue of a decision...
But realistically I wish whatever they do they do it like that everywhere...Jeez obvious like Klingsbury against Maldonado I believe Klings won...Here he woulda lost...Same with Diego and Kampmann...
When you judge on how a fighter looks is pretty silly because everyones sking and able to absorb shots is different...Also based on nationality...
Frankie just looks a bloody mess on any shot that hits him.......Its just a point where he looked worse...
As for octagon control...Im almost against this totally...Some guys hvae better movement...
Like Diaz and Condit...Well Diaz bot absolutely zero points for chasing Condit around...
I really thoguht Frankie won the fight and teh absolute only shot Henderson landed signinficantly was the up kick...
Also sub attempts...has to be one of the dumbest stats ever if considered in scoring...I mean jeez in reality if you do not get teh submission what did it accomplish...Absolutely nothing...Now I would give it credence as real octagon control...
jjeans
2/27/12 11:38:50AM
Posted by kingsmasher
I disagree with a lot of what I HAVE? read here...
IMO in no way should damage be the cause of a decision...
But realistically I wish whatever they do they do it like that everywhere...Jeez obvious like Klingsbury against Maldonado I believe Klings won...Here he woulda lost...Same with Diego and Kampmann...
When you judge on how a fighter looks is pretty silly because everyones sking and able to absorb shots is different...Also based on nationality...
Frankie just looks a bloody mess on any shot that hits him.......Its just a point where he looked worse...
As for octagon control...Im almost against this totally...Some guys hvae better movement...
Like Diaz and Condit...Well Diaz bot absolutely zero points for chasing Condit around...
I really thoguht Frankie won the fight and teh absolute only shot Henderson landed signinficantly was the up kick...
Also sub attempts...has to be one of the dumbest stats ever if considered in scoring...I mean jeez in reality if you do not get teh submission what did it accomplish...Absolutely nothing...Now I would give it credence as real octagon control...
Please can you edit your post so I understand it?
jiujitsufreak74
2/27/12 2:52:58PM
I am honestly confused to how so many mma fans can say damage shouldn't be a judging criteria. My best friend just got certified to be both a judge and ref and the school instructed him to score fights based on damage as the number one criteria. And you know what? That makes perfect sense.
This is not point karate, this is not a wrestling matc, this is a fight. Yes, mma is trying to distance itself from the bloodsport image but at the end of the day this sport is about two men inside a cage fighting. If you land ten jabs and I land five hendo bombs, you may have landed more but I definitely should be winning.
It is disgusting to me to see how people look at how many strikes landed as opposed to how much damage they did. The judging criteria says effective striking, not high volume striking. Also, takedowns where the guy on top does nothing should count for very little when the guy on bottom stands up quickly. In this fight benson clearly landed the more powerful strikes and did the most damage.
Now, im not saying that we should just look at the guys' faces and see who won, since we all know certain guys cut easier. But I am saying the guy who did the most damage should get the win. And for those of you who think im using pride scoring system im not. Effective striking is a broad concept, but I take it to mean doing the most damage and landing the more effective strikes.
This is not point karate, this is not a wrestling matc, this is a fight. Yes, mma is trying to distance itself from the bloodsport image but at the end of the day this sport is about two men inside a cage fighting. If you land ten jabs and I land five hendo bombs, you may have landed more but I definitely should be winning.
It is disgusting to me to see how people look at how many strikes landed as opposed to how much damage they did. The judging criteria says effective striking, not high volume striking. Also, takedowns where the guy on top does nothing should count for very little when the guy on bottom stands up quickly. In this fight benson clearly landed the more powerful strikes and did the most damage.
Now, im not saying that we should just look at the guys' faces and see who won, since we all know certain guys cut easier. But I am saying the guy who did the most damage should get the win. And for those of you who think im using pride scoring system im not. Effective striking is a broad concept, but I take it to mean doing the most damage and landing the more effective strikes.
jiujitsufreak74
2/27/12 2:54:41PM
And for the record anyone who thinks diego beat kampmann should have their eyes or brains checked because that was one of the worst decisions I have ever seen.
State_Champ
2/27/12 3:09:24PM
Posted by kingsmasher
I disagree with a lot of what I read here...
IMO in no way shoudl damage be teh casue of a decision...
But realistically I wish whatever they do they do it like that everywhere...Jeez obvious like Klingsbury against Maldonado I believe Klings won...Here he woulda lost...Same with Diego and Kampmann...
When you judge on how a fighter looks is pretty silly because everyones sking and able to absorb shots is different...Also based on nationality...
Frankie just looks a bloody mess on any shot that hits him.......Its just a point where he looked worse...
As for octagon control...Im almost against this totally...Some guys hvae better movement...
Like Diaz and Condit...Well Diaz bot absolutely zero points for chasing Condit around...
I really thoguht Frankie won the fight and teh absolute only shot Henderson landed signinficantly was the up kick...
Also sub attempts...has to be one of the dumbest stats ever if considered in scoring...I mean jeez in reality if you do not get teh submission what did it accomplish...Absolutely nothing...Now I would give it credence as real octagon control...
Different nationalities can absorb punishment better?
Whoa.... I never knew that!
Which nationality can "absorb shots" the best?
bjj1605
2/27/12 4:18:14PM
Posted by State_Champ
Posted by kingsmasher
I disagree with a lot of what I read here...
IMO in no way shoudl damage be teh casue of a decision...
But realistically I wish whatever they do they do it like that everywhere...Jeez obvious like Klingsbury against Maldonado I believe Klings won...Here he woulda lost...Same with Diego and Kampmann...
When you judge on how a fighter looks is pretty silly because everyones sking and able to absorb shots is different...Also based on nationality...
Frankie just looks a bloody mess on any shot that hits him.......Its just a point where he looked worse...
As for octagon control...Im almost against this totally...Some guys hvae better movement...
Like Diaz and Condit...Well Diaz bot absolutely zero points for chasing Condit around...
I really thoguht Frankie won the fight and teh absolute only shot Henderson landed signinficantly was the up kick...
Also sub attempts...has to be one of the dumbest stats ever if considered in scoring...I mean jeez in reality if you do not get teh submission what did it accomplish...Absolutely nothing...Now I would give it credence as real octagon control...
Different nationalities can absorb punishment better?
Whoa.... I never knew that!
Which nationality can "absorb shots" the best?
There were so many silly things in kingsmasher's post, but this one was the best.
Pookie
2/27/12 8:18:46PM
I had it 3-2 Edgar. And i was pretty surprised by the decision. I'll have to go re-watch it again before i make a firm decision on the matter.
I was very surprised by the 49-46 scorecards though.
I was very surprised by the 49-46 scorecards though.
Adrenaline
2/27/12 9:05:16PM
Posted by kingsmasher
Also sub attempts...has to be one of the dumbest stats ever if considered in scoring...I mean jeez in reality if you do not get teh submission what did it accomplish...Absolutely nothing...Now I would give it credence as real octagon control...
Why do takedowns count if they do nothing with them?
Why does a punch count if it doesn't knock them out?
Why does a hard kick count if it does not cripple the opponent for life?
Where in the world is Carmen San Diego?????
I think you would reconsider your stance on submissions being useless if they don't finish fights if you knew what it was like to have your head/neck/arm cranked on by someone that knows what they are doing for any amount of time. That shit sucks, and it definately takes something out of you whether it is successful or not.
jiujitsufreak74
2/27/12 9:37:11PM
Posted by Adrenaline
Posted by kingsmasher
Also sub attempts...has to be one of the dumbest stats ever if considered in scoring...I mean jeez in reality if you do not get teh submission what did it accomplish...Absolutely nothing...Now I would give it credence as real octagon control...
Why do takedowns count if they do nothing with them?
Why does a punch count if it doesn't knock them out?
Why does a hard kick count if it does not cripple the opponent for life?
Where in the world is Carmen San Diego?????
I think you would reconsider your stance on submissions being useless if they don't finish fights if you knew what it was like to have your head/neck/arm cranked on by someone that knows what they are doing for any amount of time. That shit sucks, and it definately takes something out of you whether it is successful or not.
absolutely. the sub attempts hioki had on bart definitely damaged his arms and should be considered. also, effective grappling includes close submission attempts since putting your opponent in serious danger scores damage and puts you in an advantageous position over your opponent.
BuffaloDave
2/28/12 10:52:20AM
Posted by jjeans
Posted by kingsmasher
I disagree with a lot of what I HAVE? read here...
IMO in no way should damage be the cause of a decision...
But realistically I wish whatever they do they do it like that everywhere...Jeez obvious like Klingsbury against Maldonado I believe Klings won...Here he woulda lost...Same with Diego and Kampmann...
When you judge on how a fighter looks is pretty silly because everyones sking and able to absorb shots is different...Also based on nationality...
Frankie just looks a bloody mess on any shot that hits him.......Its just a point where he looked worse...
As for octagon control...Im almost against this totally...Some guys hvae better movement...
Like Diaz and Condit...Well Diaz bot absolutely zero points for chasing Condit around...
I really thoguht Frankie won the fight and teh absolute only shot Henderson landed signinficantly was the up kick...
Also sub attempts...has to be one of the dumbest stats ever if considered in scoring...I mean jeez in reality if you do not get teh submission what did it accomplish...Absolutely nothing...Now I would give it credence as real octagon control...
Please can you edit your post so I understand it?
Next candidate for av pic questions
EDIT: Maybe not, pg might come at him a little to hard.
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