Edgar vs Henderson

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KungFuMaster
2/26/12 2:07:26AM
It seems everyone does not want to be 'that guy' who starts a thread about a bad decision. I'm not that guy by the way.

Anyway, I felt the decision was justified and rightfully so...

You have to remember - this event took place in Japan and we all know how Japanese fans and Japanese judges view fights. They score the entire fight and not round by round. I have no clue who were the judges but I am merely guessing the stage and the host which are all Japanese may have had an impact on the decision.

I know some of you are a bit upset but if you look at the scoring criteria for the 10 point must system, it does state word for word, "Effective Striking."

Edgar landed much more than Henderson but were his punches effective? A few of his punches were effective but for the most part, they were not. Then you have to take into consideration 'Octagon control and aggression' which in this case definitely favored Henderson.

For the guy who wanted to discuss what may have seemed like a controversial decision, here is the thread. I have taken the liberty of saving you the trouble.
hotrodttt
2/26/12 2:10:08AM
It was really close, could have gone either way imo, I had it 48-47 Edgar but I could see how they gave it to Bendo, it seemed like after that up kick, the tides changed for him.
TeamDEY
2/26/12 2:13:33AM
It was so close... i can totally see a re-match.... but I thought Henderson did more damage but at the end of the fight i honestly saw edgar winning! Though I do NOT disagree with the decision I would LOVE to see a rematch!
KungFuMaster
2/26/12 2:17:37AM
It was extremely close for me too. I did not know who was winning - going into the 5th round. I judged the fight according to Pride rules when I declared Henderson the winner before the official decision was announced. >>>I then plugged in the 10 point must system and it became obvious to me who was the winner.

Sometimes I feel judges forget the actual doctrine for scoring fights but in this main event, I felt all the judges scored the fight accurately in accordance with the written doctrine.
Geoffo
2/26/12 2:18:17AM
I would rather see a Henderson vs. Pettis rematch.
I scored the fight for Henderson, easily. I had a feeling it was gonna be controversial, because a lot of people see fights differently than other people.

No offence, but I don't see how you can score the fight for Edgar.
Henderson landed more significant shots (Fightmetric) AND visibly did more damage.
Henderson stuffed 7 out of 12 takedowns (Fightmetric)
Went for 3 close submissions.

Henderson was closer to finishing Edgar more times than Edgar was closer to finishing Henderson.

I don't agree with the score, but i totally agree with the decision.

Come on people...
tmas
2/26/12 2:25:00AM
to me it was clearly henderson winning i had it.


10-10 1st (yes thats right, neither fighter lost the round so i gave no 9)

10-9 every round after for Henderson.



i dont see how anyone could have given it to Edgar. It wasnt even close, there were a couple close rounds but the fight wasnt close easy dec win for Bendo.

KungFuMaster
2/26/12 2:27:34AM

Posted by TeamDEY

It was so close... i can totally see a re-match.... but I thought Henderson did more damage but at the end of the fight i honestly saw edgar winning! Though I do NOT disagree with the decision I would LOVE to see a rematch!



I honestly do not want to see a rematch. I know it was a close fight but I think a rematch clause would and will undermine what Benson Henderson did in the octagon tonight. He made Edgar looked human. He poured it on and never once let Edgar dictate the fight.

The fight was so close - that it was difficult to see if Edgar was wilting or not but I believe Henderson took something from Edgar tonight. It was so minute that fight fans would not even noticed it was gone. The tenacity in Edgar was not at its usual level tonight and there could be a number of reasons for that which we can only speculate.

If you compare Edgar vs Penn I and II and Edgar vs Maynard to tonight's fight, you may notice something is a little off. He was not moving as much and as well in tonight's fight IMO.
Spanglepants
2/26/12 2:32:23AM
i didn't even think it was all that close.

it would have been awesome to see that jumping spinning kick thing land when edgar went for a single leg that 1st round.

Geoffo
2/26/12 2:32:37AM

Posted by tmas
to me it was clearly henderson winning i had it.
10-10 1st (yes thats right, neither fighter lost the round so i gave no 9)
10-9 every round after for Henderson.
i dont see how anyone could have given it to Edgar. It wasnt even close, there were a couple close rounds but the fight wasnt close easy dec win for Bendo.




I gave 10-9 for Edgar first round. Everything else I gave to Henderson.

People need to realize there can be REALLY CLOSE 30-27 and 50-45 fights...
The rounds can be REALLY REALLY close but someone has to win. Until 10-10's are given more often anyways. Judges are too scared to have draws IMO.
tcunningham
2/26/12 2:33:17AM
i had it 3 rounds to 2 for bendo. i could even see him getting 4 out of the 5. the whole story was played out in frankies face. bendo sunk the guillotine choke and almost stopped it, then the there was the upkick, bendo was just bigger, stronger and more aggressive. one of the best fights ive seen in a while. very very close, glad to see bendo with the belt. now lets see that bendo/pettis rematch
KungFuMaster
2/26/12 2:34:33AM

Posted by Geoffo


Posted by tmas
to me it was clearly henderson winning i had it.
10-10 1st (yes thats right, neither fighter lost the round so i gave no 9)
10-9 every round after for Henderson.
i dont see how anyone could have given it to Edgar. It wasnt even close, there were a couple close rounds but the fight wasnt close easy dec win for Bendo.






People need to realize there can be REALLY CLOSE 30-27 and 50-45 fights...
The rounds can be REALLY REALLY close but someone has to win. Until 10-10's are given more often anyways. Judges are too scared to have draws IMO.



I completely agree.
scrappydoo303
2/26/12 3:40:05AM
Great fight! thought a few rounds were close and showed what a competitor edgar is but on a point system and on a overall system I felt ben henderson took it comfortably. imo its more interesting to watch these guys fight different top competitors especially in a stacked division.
Kpro
2/26/12 4:27:54AM
I had Henderson 49-46 just as 2 of the 3 judges did. It was a close 49-46, not like the type a GSP would get, but under the 10 point must system we have some fights look closer than they really were and some look like blowouts when they were close rounds.

After watching and scoring 4-1 Henderson and hearing a few say 3-2 Edgar, I wanted to compare my eye test to FightMetric (The official statistics provider for the UFC) as many were saying Edgar was landing more and staying busier.

Per the official UFC stats provider, Edgar did not attempt more strikes or land more strikes in 'any' of the 5 rounds. Not to mention, per the eye test which trumps any stats, in my opinion, it was obvious who was getting tagged harder and more often. The vast majority of people I talked to had it for Henderson, but some, whose opinions I respect, had it for Edgar also. It's just another gray area on how each person scores a round. There is no right or wrong answer with how the judging criteria is written. It's all open to interpretation.

It was an awesome fight, and for how horrible I did on picks, I thought it was a great event. Good job by the UFC on their first trip to Japan. We don't even have a ref to complain about!
Aether
2/26/12 4:40:41AM
I said it a few times in the spoiler thread, but I couldn't possibly justify my scoring without re-watching a better quality version of the fight. I wasn't really watching it in "scoring mode" I was watching it as a fan, also it was a terrible quality stream and those guys were moving so fast and throwing such a massive volume of strikes, I would've had to have been paying much closer attention to be able to argue one side or the other.

I was pretty sure the judges were giving it to Henderson, but I badly wanted Edgar to win, because I had a terrible event and hitting my parlay would've made me feel better lol. The fact that I was pretty sure Henderson was getting the decision tells me that even though I was heavily biased toward hitting my parlay, I agreed that that was the correct decision, and looking at the numbers afterward, it seems like it was a little more clear cut than it felt in the moment.

The first 2 rounds I think were fairly clear cut, 3, 4, and 5 I would have to re-watch. My initial thought was 1, 3, 5 for Edgar, but I think that was just wishful thinking from me and that I was biased toward hitting my parlay after such a horrible event. (pick wise)
Aether
2/26/12 4:47:12AM
of course everyone always wants to talk about the main event, but to me the more interesting fights scoring wise were Cariaso/Mizugaki and Shields/Akiyama.

I wouldn't have thought Shields/Akiyama was interesting except a LOT of people were scoring rounds for Akiyama, and I don't understand why.
Jesse_Canadian_MMA
2/26/12 9:48:37AM
so happy Henderson won...I picked him to finish Edgar but a dec is fine and Pettis is next.
prozacnation1978
2/26/12 10:42:08AM
I honestly thought frankie won the fight. I was schocked at outcome. He got the diaz screw job
State_Champ
2/26/12 10:54:21AM
I thought Benson won.

I would love to see a rematch, because the fight was close, imo (though still had a clear winner).

I would like to see these two fight again, not necessarily immediately.
cowcatcher
2/26/12 11:24:03AM
Bendo won that fight pretty clearly in my eyes. It wasn't domination, but he was the better fighter by a slight margin round after round.

Frankie has had to give guys rematches twice now, granted one was following a draw, so I can see how he would feel he got the shaft if Pettis gets the next shot. If they give Pettis the next shot I'm just fine with that, and I'll be cheering for the hometown kid, though. Not to mention, it would make Frankie more likely to drop to 145 IMO, and I think that's what the boss men want for him anyway.
FastKnockout
2/26/12 12:56:42PM
It was a close fight and either way it went would've been okay. I love Frankie, though. Bendo looked a solid weight class above as usual but the way he caught Bendo's kicks and tossed him around in the first few rounds was inspiring. He has nothing to be ashamed of.
Budgellism
2/26/12 2:10:01PM
I scored it for Bendo but it could have went either way. Pretty bummed to see Edgar lose though.
BuffaloDave
2/26/12 2:48:28PM

Posted by prozacnation1978

I honestly thought frankie won the fight. I was schocked at outcome. He got the diaz screw job



How did you see Edgar won the fight then? Not trying to be a dick, just would like to know how you scored it for him.

KaibaThedon
2/26/12 4:22:55PM
49-46 for smooth

dont see any way frankie won that fight
sparky
2/26/12 5:21:07PM
I honestly think Frankie 1 3 & 5 and Benson 2 & 4

really close I dont understand 49-46 at all. I can understand Benson 48-47 but the 49-46 took me by surprise I'm not going to lie, and I have watched this fight twice now.

I say rematch
bjj1605
2/26/12 5:29:40PM
I thought Bendo won the fight easily.

Overall, I was VERY VERY happy with the judging for this card. And that's the first time in a long time that I've been able to say that.

Mizugaki/Cariaso is how fights SHOULD be scored.
Budgellism
2/26/12 5:41:21PM

Posted by bjj1605

Mizugaki/Cariaso is how fights SHOULD be scored.



Elaborate on that please.
bjj1605
2/26/12 5:53:15PM

Posted by Budgellism


Posted by bjj1605

Mizugaki/Cariaso is how fights SHOULD be scored.



Elaborate on that please.



I made a thread about it with a poll.

Check it out.

Basically I think Mizugaki got the takedowns but Cariaso won EVERYTHING else. He out struck Mizugaki by a wide margin (check Fightmetric) and won the grappling exchanges.

Guard is a neutral position folks.
LightsOUT23
2/26/12 6:22:43PM
Hey guys, i am a huge fan of Edgar, i thought Benson's size was a huge factor in this fight. Although Frankie had the longer reach, he could not find Benson's chin through out the fight. At the end i had it at least 48-47 in favor of Henderson. Arguably 49-46 was fair as a few rounds were very close. My question is this .. I would have thought that Frankie's corner would have noticed by say the second or third round that Benson was ahead on the score cards and maybe instructed Frankie to go for a more ground and pound approach to score for the rounds. I was surprised especially in the first few rounds despite the size difference that Frankie seemed to be able to get the take downs and control Benson in the tie ups relatively easy. I thought Benson's size would match strength when it came to the wrestling but Frankie looked stronger as the wresting unfolded, especially in the earlier rounds. My question lays with Edgar's corner, What was the game plan ? It was clear that Benson beat Edgar to the punch. Frank landed more leg kicks, and was successful landing them, so why didn't he throw more? Also, in the early rounds, i think Edgar could have got a few more take downs and maybe tried to land a few heavy elbows from the top. I thought Benson looked much better than Edgar on the feet so i couldn't really understand what Edgar's camp were thinking going into rounds four and five. Congratulations to Ben Henderson, it was his night, Frankie should step down to 145, Edgar vs Aldo would be awesome, although if Edgar decides to stay at 155, it would be interesting to see how a rematch with Benson would unfold now that he lost his title to him. Cheers.
Wolfenstein
2/26/12 8:18:05PM

Posted by Geoffo

I would rather see a Henderson vs. Pettis rematch.
I scored the fight for Henderson, easily. I had a feeling it was gonna be controversial, because a lot of people see fights differently than other people.

No offence, but I don't see how you can score the fight for Edgar.
Henderson landed more significant shots (Fightmetric) AND visibly did more damage.
Henderson stuffed 7 out of 12 takedowns (Fightmetric)
Went for 3 close submissions.

Henderson was closer to finishing Edgar more times than Edgar was closer to finishing Henderson.

I don't agree with the score, but i totally agree with the decision.

Come on people...



You're kind of just manipulating numbers when you say Bendo stuffed 7 of 12 takedowns as one of the reasons Bendo won...we could rephrase it and say Edgar landed 5 takedowns to one...or landed about forty percent of his takedown attempts, Either way I don't see stuffing takedowns as relevant to scoring points...what next. points awarded for blocked jabs?

I'm surprised by the amount of people who felt it was a clear cut decision. To me it was as close as they come, I had it 48-47 Frankie, Bendo landed a lot of powerful kicks,but like Rua vs Machida where Lyoto landed more punches, I felt they would hold more weight in conjunction with the takedowns.

Either way really close fight, and very entertaining.

I don't see any reason to drop to 145, for one bout. There's no one beyond Aldo. If anything just bulk up a little and continue at 155.
Kpro
2/26/12 9:47:33PM

Posted by Wolfenstein

Bendo landed a lot of powerful kicks,but like Rua vs Machida where Lyoto landed more punches.



Shogun out-landed Machia 82-42 and lost a decision.
Benson out-landed Edgar 100-81 and won a decision.

Since I don't see where they've broken down kicks vs. punches, only landeds shots to the head, body, or legs. Benson out-landed Edgar 59-40 to the head. I'd have to watch again but I don't remember many, if any, landed head kicks. So that leaves 41-41 for the remaining strikes to the body and legs.

That is per the official UFC stats provider. Those fights aren't even almost comparable.
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