UFC drops Jon Fitch, other American Kickboxing Academy fighters (interviews with Dana and Fitch)
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UFC drops Jon Fitch, other American Kickboxing Academy fighters (interviews with Dana and Fitch)
emfleek
11/20/08 1:33:27PM
Posted by tberg420
I realize that you are from Fitch's hometown and I too reside in Indiana and really enjoy the Indiana fighters. However, are you seriously comparing the Affliction or whatever other companies Welterweight title to the UFC Welterweight title? Fitch isn't that marketable and if he was the UFC would not have gotten rid of a talent in this way. Fitch is simply a gatekeeper and will only hold down other talent. Fitch's best win is a split decision victory over Diego Sanchez? He beat Alves in '06 but in MMA that's a long time ago.
Being from Fort Wayne has nothing to do with this, actually. Is that why he's one of my favorite fighters? Yes. But that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
And I'm sorry, but gatekeeper? I couldn't disagree more. Gatekeepers don't go 8-1 in the UFC and NOT get finished by one of the top guys in the world in a 5 round title fight in his only loss.
He's not marketable simply because he was never marketed.
And I wasn't comparing any organization's title to the UFC title. I don't know how you came to that conclusion.
gsquat
11/20/08 1:34:06PM
That Dana... He sure does like to say [expletive]. But I personally don't see what the big deal is. Quit expecting money for and from everything. Just sign the f#cking paper so you can keep fighting. Isn't it the fans you fight for and not yourself? It should be. The fans pay you and every other professional athlete out there. Hell, I'd pay Dana White to use my name and likeness in a video game. That'd be sweet. Quit bitchin'. Times are hard.
MMAcca
11/20/08 2:07:00PM
Posted by juanez13
Posted by mrkennedy
jon fitch,josh koscheck,cain velasquez are all out of the ufc our what
Fitch is the one that seems to be the most concrete. Cain also seems to be on the chopping block as dana commeneted on him and even said "**** him" for asking for special treatment when big UFC stars have already signed the same deal. He hasnt commented on Koscheck yet, but Dana he wasnt going to deal with any of the guys from AKA, except Swick. So Kos is probably among those that dont want to sign it.
Dana has commented on Kos. He said he feels the UFC owes him one more fight (against Yoshida) for stepping up on short notice to fight Alves.
MMAcca
11/20/08 2:09:17PM
Dana White elaborates on Jon Fitch release and stance on AKA …
… and he’s clearly not as heated as last night but still miffed:
“This is not an attack on Jon Fitch. It’s not an attack on any one fighter. We have chosen not to do business with this camp called AKA. These guys have never, ever, ever treated us like partners. They’re always fighting over stupid, stupid (stuff) and negotiating over stuff that makes no sense. They’re negotiating like they’ve got Mel Gibson and this thing is the biggest movie ever being made. You know what I’m saying? The reality is, we’re not even sanctioned in Massachusetts or New York … (and) we’re going into all these different countries trying to do these different things. And I’ve got these guys that basically don’t want to be partners with me. You’ve got morons — morons — that are running these fighters’ lives. But to tell you the truth, one of the fighters from AKA called me and said, “Listen, I don’t care what these managers say or what they’re doing. I make my own decisions and my decision is, I’m with you. I’m your partner, I’m in.’ And this was before we even told AKA we wouldn’t be doing business with them any more. So this really isn’t an attack on Jon Fitch or any personal fighter. We’re just choosing not to do business with AKA any more. We’re not going to do business with them. And listen, there’s other guys out there that they can go do business with; they’re just not going to do business with me. Now there’s rumors out there, I know, about, ‘It’s over a video game deal. It’s over the ancillary rights agreement. It’s over this, that.’It’s over a lot of different things. It’s not one specific fighter or one specific thing. It’s about a lot of different things with a lot of these fighters. And you know what? This is more than just AKA. There’s other camps out there that we’re having trouble doing business with. And at the end of the day, this is a business. We run a business just like any other business. You come in, you do your job with your company and you get paid. And the guys that don’t want to do business with you — then go work somewhere else. It’s as easy as that. You don’t have to do business with us. There’s other people out there you can do it with.”
Check out the full article from USA Today right here.
… and he’s clearly not as heated as last night but still miffed:
“This is not an attack on Jon Fitch. It’s not an attack on any one fighter. We have chosen not to do business with this camp called AKA. These guys have never, ever, ever treated us like partners. They’re always fighting over stupid, stupid (stuff) and negotiating over stuff that makes no sense. They’re negotiating like they’ve got Mel Gibson and this thing is the biggest movie ever being made. You know what I’m saying? The reality is, we’re not even sanctioned in Massachusetts or New York … (and) we’re going into all these different countries trying to do these different things. And I’ve got these guys that basically don’t want to be partners with me. You’ve got morons — morons — that are running these fighters’ lives. But to tell you the truth, one of the fighters from AKA called me and said, “Listen, I don’t care what these managers say or what they’re doing. I make my own decisions and my decision is, I’m with you. I’m your partner, I’m in.’ And this was before we even told AKA we wouldn’t be doing business with them any more. So this really isn’t an attack on Jon Fitch or any personal fighter. We’re just choosing not to do business with AKA any more. We’re not going to do business with them. And listen, there’s other guys out there that they can go do business with; they’re just not going to do business with me. Now there’s rumors out there, I know, about, ‘It’s over a video game deal. It’s over the ancillary rights agreement. It’s over this, that.’It’s over a lot of different things. It’s not one specific fighter or one specific thing. It’s about a lot of different things with a lot of these fighters. And you know what? This is more than just AKA. There’s other camps out there that we’re having trouble doing business with. And at the end of the day, this is a business. We run a business just like any other business. You come in, you do your job with your company and you get paid. And the guys that don’t want to do business with you — then go work somewhere else. It’s as easy as that. You don’t have to do business with us. There’s other people out there you can do it with.”
Check out the full article from USA Today right here.
MMAcca
11/20/08 2:19:17PM
From MMA Payout.......
Ivan Trembow has a nice post up that echoes a lot of my sentiments on the whole Jon Fitch situation:
“If there was ever any doubt that fighters need a union, this kind of bullying and threatening behavior by the UFC’s management reinforces the need for a union. Through their own hubris, the UFC has actually made the case for a fighters’ union in a stronger way than anyone ever has in the past.
The UFC is going to continue with this kind of despotic behavior for as long as they can get away with it. Until there is a union, the fighters have no leverage with which to challenge the UFC’s behavior.”
In the article, I also take umbrage with Dana White’s ridiculous and insulting assertion in the article that he “has sacrificed more than anyone to build the UFC into the powerhouse it has become.”
The whole passage is worth a read. Go Check it out.
LINK
Ivan Trembow has a nice post up that echoes a lot of my sentiments on the whole Jon Fitch situation:
“If there was ever any doubt that fighters need a union, this kind of bullying and threatening behavior by the UFC’s management reinforces the need for a union. Through their own hubris, the UFC has actually made the case for a fighters’ union in a stronger way than anyone ever has in the past.
The UFC is going to continue with this kind of despotic behavior for as long as they can get away with it. Until there is a union, the fighters have no leverage with which to challenge the UFC’s behavior.”
In the article, I also take umbrage with Dana White’s ridiculous and insulting assertion in the article that he “has sacrificed more than anyone to build the UFC into the powerhouse it has become.”
The whole passage is worth a read. Go Check it out.
LINK
StorminYourman
11/20/08 2:19:33PM
This sucks.
UFC are doing business like the mobsters they are.
UFC are doing business like the mobsters they are.
MMAcca
11/20/08 2:25:31PM
Posted by StorminYourman
This sucks.
UFC are doing business like the mobsters they are.
Mobsters ?
nickcuc547
11/20/08 2:30:49PM
at first glance it sounds like dana is at fault here, but lets hold our judgment until all the facts come out. remember the randy couture situation, randy looked like the good guy at first but the more details came out the worse he looked.
Naturaldisaster
11/20/08 2:31:59PM
If Koscheck and Velazquez get cut i'm gonna be F*$%in pissed!
soundboy1
11/20/08 2:33:12PM
Posted by MMAcca
Dana White elaborates on Jon Fitch release and stance on AKA …
… and he’s clearly not as heated as last night but still miffed:
“This is not an attack on Jon Fitch. It’s not an attack on any one fighter. We have chosen not to do business with this camp called AKA. These guys have never, ever, ever treated us like partners. They’re always fighting over stupid, stupid (stuff) and negotiating over stuff that makes no sense. They’re negotiating like they’ve got Mel Gibson and this thing is the biggest movie ever being made. You know what I’m saying? The reality is, we’re not even sanctioned in Massachusetts or New York … (and) we’re going into all these different countries trying to do these different things. And I’ve got these guys that basically don’t want to be partners with me. You’ve got morons — morons — that are running these fighters’ lives. But to tell you the truth, one of the fighters from AKA called me and said, “Listen, I don’t care what these managers say or what they’re doing. I make my own decisions and my decision is, I’m with you. I’m your partner, I’m in.’ And this was before we even told AKA we wouldn’t be doing business with them any more. So this really isn’t an attack on Jon Fitch or any personal fighter. We’re just choosing not to do business with AKA any more. We’re not going to do business with them.
And listen, there’s other guys out there that they can go do business with; they’re just not going to do business with me. Now there’s rumors out there, I know, about, ‘It’s over a video game deal. It’s over the ancillary rights agreement. It’s over this, that.’It’s over a lot of different things. It’s not one specific fighter or one specific thing. It’s about a lot of different things with a lot of these fighters. And you know what? This is more than just AKA. There’s other camps out there that we’re having trouble doing business with. And at the end of the day, this is a business. We run a business just like any other business. You come in, you do your job with your company and you get paid. And the guys that don’t want to do business with you — then go work somewhere else. It’s as easy as that. You don’t have to do business with us. There’s other people out there you can do it with.”
Check out the full article from USA Today right here.
That's right Dana send your fighters to other organizations that are willing to treat them like the stars they are!
emfleek
11/20/08 2:33:17PM
Posted by Naturaldisaster
If Koscheck and Velazquez get cut i'm gonna be F*$%in pissed!
Agreed...but now that more details are coming out, I'm not as pissed at the UFC anymore.
MMAcca
11/20/08 2:33:50PM
Posted by nickcuc547
at first glance it sounds like dana is at fault here, but lets hold our judgment until all the facts come out. remember the randy couture situation, randy looked like the good guy at first but the more details came out the worse he looked.
Fitch and AKA are at fault. Everyone is just shocked at the moment.
Like you say, when the dust settles and the facts emerge, we'll see who the bad guy(s) is/are....
MMAcca
11/20/08 2:35:18PM
Posted by soundboy1
That's right Dana send your fighters to other organizations that are willing to treat them like the stars they are!
For one or two events, until they go bankrupt......
cmill21
11/20/08 2:39:11PM
I don't see how this is AKA's fault, they don't want the UFC to own their likeness for the rest of their lives...I woulden't sign it.
jiujitsufreak74
11/20/08 2:41:04PM
i literally shed a tear when i realized this wasn't fake 
crushedbacon
11/20/08 2:41:27PM
Dana talks a lot about being partners and this and that. Well if he truly meant that he would advocate a fighter's association that represents the fighter\s in the UFC. Then maybe some of those revenues could be shared, like other major sporting organizations. Through collective bargaining a figure is negotiated and then agreed upon. Usually it is near 50/50 revenue sharing. Give a few percentage points either way, depending upon which North American pro league (NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB) In the UFC the fighters see no where close to 50% of revenue......The fighter mentality and the discourse engrained around the ideologies that support this alpha male mindset will do nothing for fighters and their quest to receive an evenly distributed peice of the pie. I wanna see more figter's bitching and complaining and less of the just shut up and fight mentality, because that way of thinking in the long run is oppressive.
MMAcca
11/20/08 2:42:21PM
Posted by cmill21
I don't see how this is AKA's fault, they don't want the UFC to own their likeness for the rest of their lives...I woulden't sign it.
I'm not sure if i would either, but we don't know all the details yet.
One big thing for me is, how come pretty much everybody else has signed this agreement ?
Kracker_Jap
11/20/08 2:42:42PM
Posted by MMAcca
Posted by nickcuc547
at first glance it sounds like dana is at fault here, but lets hold our judgment until all the facts come out. remember the randy couture situation, randy looked like the good guy at first but the more details came out the worse he looked.
Fitch and AKA are at fault. Everyone is just shocked at the moment.
Like you say, when the dust settles and the facts emerge, we'll see who the bad guy(s) is/are....
Thats what I'm talkin about......
I'm not sayin that the UFC is made of angels
But if thay where this rumered crapy of a company they would not still be in business....
Pride or M-1 or IFL or Elite XC or the WFA would have emerged as the leader in the world
monkeybrawler
11/20/08 2:51:31PM
Well lets see if it were not for the UFC there wouldn't even be a game to worry about wanting money from. I would hate for my name and my fight career to be put out there for everyone to know who I am for the rest of my life. The endorsement deals it might help me get would just be horrible. The guys at AKA need to get over there selves because right now isn't the best time to be looking for a new promotion to fight for.
tberg420
11/20/08 2:57:38PM
Sherdog.com is reporting that the UFC is negotiating with Fitch again. It's more than likely going to result in a new contract and Fitch being on the game.
MMAcca
11/20/08 3:07:26PM
Posted by tberg420
Sherdog.com is reporting that the UFC is negotiating with Fitch again. It's more than likely going to result in a new contract and Fitch being on the game.
LINK
emfleek
11/20/08 3:19:33PM
tuvok500
11/20/08 4:06:46PM
Dana just hate " Hollywood style " agents.
So, fighters at AKA will have to clear there head and take a good " normal " agent and everything will be fine.
.
So, fighters at AKA will have to clear there head and take a good " normal " agent and everything will be fine.
.
cmill21
11/20/08 4:09:57PM
Posted by tuvok500
Dana just hate " Hollywood style " agents.
So, fighters at AKA will have to clear there head and take a good " normal " agent and everything will be fine.
.
Lol says GSP's biggest fan.
MMAcca
11/20/08 4:10:17PM
Posted by tuvok500
Dana just hate " Hollywood style " agents.
So, fighters at AKA will have to clear there head and take a good " normal " agent and everything will be fine.
.
MMAcca
11/20/08 4:17:46PM
Fitch’s release a calculated attempt to send fighters and their managers a message
Wednesday’s news that former UFC welterweight title challenger Jon Fitch had been released from the promotion continues to send shockwaves through the industry. Many managers and agents are distressed by the news and are bracing for the worst. Within the past 12 hours, FiveOuncesOfPain.com has spoken with several of the top fighter representatives in the business to gain perspective on the situation.
After speaking with a healthy sampling it’s readily apparent that Fitch’s release cannot be pinpointed to a single issue, as the UFC’s decision to drop him was the result of a number of factors manifesting at the same time.
First and foremost of the issues was the refusal of Fitch’s trainers and manager with the San Jose-based American Kickboxing Academy and agents at Zinkin Entertainment to recommend that their clients sign a marketing agreement that would surrender lifetime video game likeness rights to the UFC.
While Five Ounces of Pain has yet to speak with representatives at AKA or Zinkin, industry insiders have informed us that they were not happy with being asked to sign away lifetime rights. Fitch publicly stated on Wednesday that the lifetime rights provision and the manner in which the UFC went about demanding it was a major issue.
Long read.......
Wednesday’s news that former UFC welterweight title challenger Jon Fitch had been released from the promotion continues to send shockwaves through the industry. Many managers and agents are distressed by the news and are bracing for the worst. Within the past 12 hours, FiveOuncesOfPain.com has spoken with several of the top fighter representatives in the business to gain perspective on the situation.
After speaking with a healthy sampling it’s readily apparent that Fitch’s release cannot be pinpointed to a single issue, as the UFC’s decision to drop him was the result of a number of factors manifesting at the same time.
First and foremost of the issues was the refusal of Fitch’s trainers and manager with the San Jose-based American Kickboxing Academy and agents at Zinkin Entertainment to recommend that their clients sign a marketing agreement that would surrender lifetime video game likeness rights to the UFC.
While Five Ounces of Pain has yet to speak with representatives at AKA or Zinkin, industry insiders have informed us that they were not happy with being asked to sign away lifetime rights. Fitch publicly stated on Wednesday that the lifetime rights provision and the manner in which the UFC went about demanding it was a major issue.
Long read.......
tberg420
11/20/08 4:42:16PM
I was just thinking about something. Fitch is upset about the company making money of him when he isn't fighting for the UFC anymore. Well, shouldn't he give some of his sponsorship money back to the UFC when he fights? I mean they are allowing him to fight in their cage and make that extra money. Sounds like to me that some of the fighters aren't thinking clearly.
emfleek
11/20/08 4:49:48PM
Posted by tberg420
I was just thinking about something. Fitch is upset about the company making money of him when he isn't fighting for the UFC anymore. Well, shouldn't he give some of his sponsorship money back to the UFC when he fights? I mean they are allowing him to fight in their cage and make that extra money. Sounds like to me that some of the fighters aren't thinking clearly.
They're not "allowing" him to fight in their cage. You make it sound like they're doing him a favor. It's a mutual agreement (contract) meaning he's performing a service and they're benefiting from that service.
MMAcca
11/20/08 4:52:45PM
Jon Fitch Needs Better Representation
I think the topic of whether the UFC's deal is morally deficient has been discussed to death. Personally, I feel it is unnecessarily heavy handed. However, the real issue for Fitch and other AKA fighters is their representation. It's mind-boggling to me that anyone would advise a fighter not to sign away video game rights when it could cost them their entire MMA career.
To be honest, losing one fight in the UFC will cost Fitch more than he will ever make in a video game. He made over $250,000 for his fight against GSP when you include sponsors, and $169,000 from the UFC alone. How much is he going to make off video game rights? Not to mention the contract is highly questionable and likely unenforceable anyway.
If the merchandise rights were exclusive, then I'd definitely advise any client against signing that deal. But that is not the case. The exclusivity deal is for the THQ game.
In the end, Dana White called the agency's bluff, which is why they're back talking today. I believe that within a few weeks Fitch will be back in the UFC and probably in the video game. This whole ordeal raises a number of issues about the future of MMA in a UFC-only world, but if his representatives were really looking out for his best interests, they would have him sign the deal and move on. They probably never thought Dana would cut Fitch, and now that it happened they are back to figuring out a way to salvage the situation. I have no idea why they thought they could play hardball given their negotiating position, but they did, and they got called on it.
LINK
I think the topic of whether the UFC's deal is morally deficient has been discussed to death. Personally, I feel it is unnecessarily heavy handed. However, the real issue for Fitch and other AKA fighters is their representation. It's mind-boggling to me that anyone would advise a fighter not to sign away video game rights when it could cost them their entire MMA career.
To be honest, losing one fight in the UFC will cost Fitch more than he will ever make in a video game. He made over $250,000 for his fight against GSP when you include sponsors, and $169,000 from the UFC alone. How much is he going to make off video game rights? Not to mention the contract is highly questionable and likely unenforceable anyway.
If the merchandise rights were exclusive, then I'd definitely advise any client against signing that deal. But that is not the case. The exclusivity deal is for the THQ game.
In the end, Dana White called the agency's bluff, which is why they're back talking today. I believe that within a few weeks Fitch will be back in the UFC and probably in the video game. This whole ordeal raises a number of issues about the future of MMA in a UFC-only world, but if his representatives were really looking out for his best interests, they would have him sign the deal and move on. They probably never thought Dana would cut Fitch, and now that it happened they are back to figuring out a way to salvage the situation. I have no idea why they thought they could play hardball given their negotiating position, but they did, and they got called on it.
LINK
Kracker_Jap
11/20/08 4:53:12PM
Posted by emfleek
Posted by tberg420
I was just thinking about something. Fitch is upset about the company making money of him when he isn't fighting for the UFC anymore. Well, shouldn't he give some of his sponsorship money back to the UFC when he fights? I mean they are allowing him to fight in their cage and make that extra money. Sounds like to me that some of the fighters aren't thinking clearly.
They're not "allowing" him to fight in their cage. You make it sound like they're doing him a favor. It's a mutual agreement (contract) meaning he's performing a service and they're benefiting from that service.
And vice versa
