DREAM the new PRIDE

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POLL: Should Dream events be added to the fantasy picks?
yes 55% (40)
no 11% (8)
maybe if they sign more talent 34% (25)
Gladiator
3/16/08 12:19:50AM
Judging from how good the first event went, i would say that Dream will probably be around for awhile. Its basically a mirror image of Pride FC with same rules, ring, same gloves, and some of the same fighters. If Dream keeps putting on more shows like this and signing more world-class talent i think (starting next season) we should add it to the main Fantasy events picking instead of the secondary league. Afterall, we've only had two Pride events so far and the first Dream card had Cro cop, Aoki, and Sakurai on it. I especially think we should add it to the main picks if they get the tv deal with HDnet. What do u guys think?
wolfman
3/16/08 12:29:39AM
I agree from a superficial view that DREAM=PRIDE, yet the rules are not exactly the same. In DREAM, I am pretty sure that head stomps and soccer kicks are not allowed, other than that their rules appear to be the same. I agree, that DREAM should be added to the primary league. Because, it moves slow at times and I would like to see another org. in there rather than just the UFC. Yet, we still have to wait and see if DREAM will stick around and if the site admin decides to add it.

EDIT: Rush pretty much summed it up perfectly and you should change your poll title to specify the primary league.
Rush
3/16/08 12:29:49AM
IS Dream the new Pride? Or is it just Dream?


I guess if we can answer that, then the answer to your poll should be easy. Unfortunately, I don't have an answer to that.

I assume Pride and the UFC were officially on the main fantasy picks schedule for reasons to do with historical aspects of MMA and also their rich talent pool.

However, is Dream really the same as Pride? What percentage of the original talent pool will they have by the summer? end of 2008? Or is Dream essentially just another up and coming MMA organization like many others?

If that is the case, then why aren't any of the other bigger events on the regular league for fantasy picks. Cage Rage and Elite XC both have some great fighters and put on regular shows.

I'm not saying Dream (or any other organization) doesn't belong in the main league, but I am not sure at this point if Dream=Pride.

If Dream can put on 8 or 9 more quality shows in the next year or so, then I will probably consider it a replacement for Pride, but right now, it's just another organization trying to make it.
jiujitsufreak74
3/16/08 12:41:25AM
at this rate...it will take the place of PRIDE. especially with rumored fighters like Kang, Sakuraba, Funaki, Manhoef, and Yoon for the MW GP. so far their MW and LW divisions look great. and hopefully they can actually broadcast their fights world wide. i would say they probably have the best LW division right now, yes even better then the UFC. they still need to put together a WW and LHW division which will be difficult with most of the talent in those divisions being in the UFC. even still i think they will be very successful and continue put on exciting cards. so as my title says Dream = PRIDE at this rate. hopefully they continue, as right now they aren't at PRIDE's level but at thi space they will be.
hippysmacker
3/16/08 12:53:44AM

Posted by Rush

IS Dream the new Pride? Or is it just Dream?


I guess if we can answer that, then the answer to your poll should be easy. Unfortunately, I don't have an answer to that.

I assume Pride and the UFC were officially on the main fantasy picks schedule for reasons to do with historical aspects of MMA and also their rich talent pool.

However, is Dream really the same as Pride? What percentage of the original talent pool will they have by the summer? end of 2008? Or is Dream essentially just another up and coming MMA organization like many others?

If that is the case, then why aren't any of the other bigger events on the regular league for fantasy picks. Cage Rage and Elite XC both have some great fighters and put on regular shows.

I'm not saying Dream (or any other organization) doesn't belong in the main league, but I am not sure at this point if Dream=Pride.

If Dream can put on 8 or 9 more quality shows in the next year or so, then I will probably consider it a replacement for Pride, but right now, it's just another organization trying to make it.



I think this sums it up .If they pan out after awhile they could be the strongest alternative to the UFC. I would like to add that their is still a lot of litigation with Zuffa and the former Pride brass, so I am not sure if that will play into this. What I hope most of all is that people don't latch onto Dream in a nutthuggish way. I am so happy to avoid the Pride vs UFc arguments, and don't want to see UFC vs Dream ones taking their place. I hope Dream works out, and all fans can then just appreciate good MMA as a whole.
wolfman
3/16/08 1:00:28AM

Posted by hippysmacker

I think this sums it up .If they pan out after awhile they could be the strongest alternative to the UFC. I would like to add that their is still a lot of litigation with Zuffa and the former Pride brass, so I am not sure if that will play into this. What I hope most of all is that people don't latch onto Dream in a nutthuggish way. I am so happy to avoid the Pride vs UFc arguments, and don't want to see UFC vs Dream ones taking their place. I hope Dream works out, and all fans can then just appreciate good MMA as a whole.



Yeah, UFC/PRIDE nuthuggers get on my nerves! I just wish that people would expand their minds and support the fighters/fights, not just the orgs. they specifically come from. You know who you are...
Ordep
3/16/08 11:21:08AM

In terms of a Japan-based organization that could be really big, yes is kind of the same. But for a full Pride-Dream comparison I would answer YES if they merge with World Victory Road so they can get some of the Pride "well known" fighters (i.e. Gomi,Barney,Kevin,Yoshida). Right now it is a really good promotion and I'm really excited about it, but they need to sing more talent to be considered a re-birth of Pride IMO.

Also I was thinking about the Dream LHW division, most of the Pride's LHW roster is signed with the UFC son there's not much available outside for them to make a strong division, but yet some good fighters like Arona, Lil' Nog etc.
Ordep
3/16/08 11:26:49AM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74

at this rate...it will take the place of PRIDE. especially with rumored fighters like Kang, Sakuraba, Funaki, Manhoef, and Yoon for the MW GP. so far their MW and LW divisions look great. and hopefully they can actually broadcast their fights world wide. i would say they probably have the best LW division right now, yes even better then the UFC. they still need to put together a WW and LHW division which will be difficult with most of the talent in those divisions being in the UFC. even still i think they will be very successful and continue put on exciting cards. so as my title says Dream = PRIDE at this rate. hopefully they continue, as right now they aren't at PRIDE's level but at thi space they will be.



I'm not really worried about Dream's WW division. After Marcus Davis clean the house in the UFC in 2009 all the fighters will fear him and will end up in the Dream roster.

War Irish Hand Grenade!!!!!!!!!!!!
jiujitsufreak74
3/16/08 11:52:49AM

Posted by Ordep


Posted by jiujitsufreak74

at this rate...it will take the place of PRIDE. especially with rumored fighters like Kang, Sakuraba, Funaki, Manhoef, and Yoon for the MW GP. so far their MW and LW divisions look great. and hopefully they can actually broadcast their fights world wide. i would say they probably have the best LW division right now, yes even better then the UFC. they still need to put together a WW and LHW division which will be difficult with most of the talent in those divisions being in the UFC. even still i think they will be very successful and continue put on exciting cards. so as my title says Dream = PRIDE at this rate. hopefully they continue, as right now they aren't at PRIDE's level but at thi space they will be.



I'm not really worried about Dream's WW division. After Marcus Davis clean the house in the UFC in 2009 all the fighters will fear him and will end up in the Dream roster.

War Irish Hand Grenade!!!!!!!!!!!!



i 100% agree with this statement
cmill21
3/16/08 1:06:32PM
I think Dream can get a strangle hold on the LW, MW, and HW div's. The UFC has some of the top talent in those divs but they have less then half of it. Dream could take over those divs with a couple signings. However I think the UFC will always have the best WW's and LHW's unless something weird happens.
Franklinfan47
3/16/08 1:20:31PM
Too early to tell, but looks like a definate possibilty.
warglory
3/16/08 10:50:00PM

Posted by cmill21

I think Dream can get a strangle hold on the LW, MW, and HW div's. The UFC has some of the top talent in those divs but they have less then half of it. Dream could take over those divs with a couple signings. However I think the UFC will always have the best WW's and LHW's unless something weird happens.



UFC has a stranglehold on the LW division too if you ask me as far as quality talent goes. Maybe not the biggest names internationally speaking, but as far as a segregated pool of talent goes, they have the cream of the crop of which could take on most international talent.
Pookie
3/16/08 11:02:16PM

Posted by warglory


Posted by cmill21

I think Dream can get a strangle hold on the LW, MW, and HW div's. The UFC has some of the top talent in those divs but they have less then half of it. Dream could take over those divs with a couple signings. However I think the UFC will always have the best WW's and LHW's unless something weird happens.



UFC has a stranglehold on the LW division too if you ask me as far as quality talent goes. Maybe not the biggest names internationally speaking, but as far as a segregated pool of talent goes, they have the cream of the crop of which could take on most international talent.



I disagree with you on that.

I think they have the best LW in the world and after that the division steeply declines.

This may be a bit of mmamath but in terms of grapplng...

Clay guida in the ufc has proved superior to Huerta and Griffin (again from the grappling perspective)

But guida was absolutely manhandled (in the grappling department) by Gilbert Milendez.

Milendez recently was outgrappled by LW grand prix contender Mitsuhiro Ishida.


And since the UFC's LW division is primarily a wrestler dominated/populated division... it doesnt speak to highly on the quality of the wrestlers in the UFC's LW division as opposed to outside it.
ToeZup
3/17/08 8:42:21AM
I hear you Gladiator.
Zuffa pretty much bought a name, Dream is Pride and now Dream has a whole bunch of money to sink into Dream to create the new Pride.
it's crazy. I bet Zuffa is kicking themselves right now. Either way eventually Dream could be huge...if it gets televised in the United States.
cmill21
3/17/08 9:30:18AM

Posted by ToeZup

I hear you Gladiator.
Zuffa pretty much bought a name, Dream is Pride and now Dream has a whole bunch of money to sink into Dream to create the new Pride.
it's crazy. I bet Zuffa is kicking themselves right now. Either way eventually Dream could be huge...if it gets televised in the United States.



Apperently it will be in the coming weeks.
MartinKillMcGill
3/17/08 5:10:38PM
Just wondering wat the chances were of tito ortiz signing for dream. If tito still wants to fight it would give him a fresh star.I think tito would be an instant hit in japan and it would give dream an imediate fan base in the us and global recognition. His charisma and rivalries helped kick off the ufc into mainstream and i think he could do the same for dream. I havn't really heard wat tito's planning to do when his contract is up and i know the chances of it happening ar very slim but the thought of pissing off dana white might be enough
BlazinSaddle
3/17/08 6:11:29PM
given time Dream will be in with UFC picks here on the playground, kind of suprised that it isnt, probably because it was a big tournament, i love Dream i hope they surpass the UFC someday like Pride did
warglory
3/17/08 6:41:32PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by warglory


Posted by cmill21

I think Dream can get a strangle hold on the LW, MW, and HW div's. The UFC has some of the top talent in those divs but they have less then half of it. Dream could take over those divs with a couple signings. However I think the UFC will always have the best WW's and LHW's unless something weird happens.



UFC has a stranglehold on the LW division too if you ask me as far as quality talent goes. Maybe not the biggest names internationally speaking, but as far as a segregated pool of talent goes, they have the cream of the crop of which could take on most international talent.



I disagree with you on that.

I think they have the best LW in the world and after that the division steeply declines.

This may be a bit of mmamath but in terms of grapplng...

Clay guida in the ufc has proved superior to Huerta and Griffin (again from the grappling perspective)

But guida was absolutely manhandled (in the grappling department) by Gilbert Milendez.

Milendez recently was outgrappled by LW grand prix contender Mitsuhiro Ishida.


And since the UFC's LW division is primarily a wrestler dominated/populated division... it doesnt speak to highly on the quality of the wrestlers in the UFC's LW division as opposed to outside it.



Like you said, this is mmath and really has no bearing on the quality of fighters.
Pookie
3/17/08 6:58:30PM
true but it does have bearing on the quality of their grappling skills since i was basing it off of that and that alone.
ncordless
3/17/08 11:10:39PM

Posted by warglory


Posted by Pookie


Posted by warglory


Posted by cmill21

I think Dream can get a strangle hold on the LW, MW, and HW div's. The UFC has some of the top talent in those divs but they have less then half of it. Dream could take over those divs with a couple signings. However I think the UFC will always have the best WW's and LHW's unless something weird happens.



UFC has a stranglehold on the LW division too if you ask me as far as quality talent goes. Maybe not the biggest names internationally speaking, but as far as a segregated pool of talent goes, they have the cream of the crop of which could take on most international talent.



I disagree with you on that.

I think they have the best LW in the world and after that the division steeply declines.

This may be a bit of mmamath but in terms of grapplng...

Clay guida in the ufc has proved superior to Huerta and Griffin (again from the grappling perspective)

But guida was absolutely manhandled (in the grappling department) by Gilbert Milendez.

Milendez recently was outgrappled by LW grand prix contender Mitsuhiro Ishida.


And since the UFC's LW division is primarily a wrestler dominated/populated division... it doesnt speak to highly on the quality of the wrestlers in the UFC's LW division as opposed to outside it.



Like you said, this is mmath and really has no bearing on the quality of fighters.



Yeah mmath based purely on grappling really doesn't do anything for me.

But if you look at it like this:

UFC:
Penn
Sherk
Florian
Edgar
Huerta
Stevenson
Griffin
DREAM:
JZ
Aoki
Alvarez
Hanson
Mach
Ishida
Kawajiri

I'd say they are pretty even with the UFC being a little more top heavy and DREAM being a little more balanced throughout. (BTW, the order I wrote them was not the way I'd rank them absolutely, rather the order I thought of them.)
ncordless
3/17/08 11:11:48PM
Man, looking at that, what a LW GP that would be!
Tein_Lung
3/18/08 1:08:45PM

Posted by Ordep


Posted by jiujitsufreak74

at this rate...it will take the place of PRIDE. especially with rumored fighters like Kang, Sakuraba, Funaki, Manhoef, and Yoon for the MW GP. so far their MW and LW divisions look great. and hopefully they can actually broadcast their fights world wide. i would say they probably have the best LW division right now, yes even better then the UFC. they still need to put together a WW and LHW division which will be difficult with most of the talent in those divisions being in the UFC. even still i think they will be very successful and continue put on exciting cards. so as my title says Dream = PRIDE at this rate. hopefully they continue, as right now they aren't at PRIDE's level but at thi space they will be.



I'm not really worried about Dream's WW division. After Marcus Davis clean the house in the UFC in 2009 all the fighters will fear him and will end up in the Dream roster.

War Irish Hand Grenade!!!!!!!!!!!!

lay off the kool-aid man cxasue the second Davis is not in their with a can he will get KTFO... hell even Melvin beat Davis... and last time Melvin was in the UFC he has Cleminits nuts put ontop his head...
jiujitsufreak74
3/18/08 3:01:47PM

Posted by Tein_Lung


Posted by Ordep


Posted by jiujitsufreak74

at this rate...it will take the place of PRIDE. especially with rumored fighters like Kang, Sakuraba, Funaki, Manhoef, and Yoon for the MW GP. so far their MW and LW divisions look great. and hopefully they can actually broadcast their fights world wide. i would say they probably have the best LW division right now, yes even better then the UFC. they still need to put together a WW and LHW division which will be difficult with most of the talent in those divisions being in the UFC. even still i think they will be very successful and continue put on exciting cards. so as my title says Dream = PRIDE at this rate. hopefully they continue, as right now they aren't at PRIDE's level but at thi space they will be.



I'm not really worried about Dream's WW division. After Marcus Davis clean the house in the UFC in 2009 all the fighters will fear him and will end up in the Dream roster.

War Irish Hand Grenade!!!!!!!!!!!!

lay off the kool-aid man cxasue the second Davis is not in their with a can he will get KTFO... hell even Melvin beat Davis... and last time Melvin was in the UFC he has Cleminits nuts put ontop his head...



first off it was in jest.

also, you are mistaken about Marcus. he lost to Guillard due to cut. since then he has improved ten fold developing a strong ground game and has increased the range of his striking. he now incorporates great kicks and his punches are still the hardest in the division. i guarantee you that if he got a rematch with Melvin he would utterly destroy him. Marcus has now become very technical in his MMA game utilizing 8-point striking and versatile JJ and wrestling. Swick will be a good test for him to really see how far he has come but i assure you that Marcus can hold his own against some of the top WW talent and that he is no can and that he will keep his unbeaten streak even against the better competition. with KO power in each of his punches and his now technical overall game he is very dangerous at WW. imo he cracks the top 10 at the 10th spot...but of course i carry somewhat of a bias.
MondayNiteMauser
3/19/08 9:19:49AM
Calvancanti, Hansen, and Mach are the only ones in dream who i think stands a chance in the UFC..everyone else is either on the downside of their career or so one dimentional its not even funny...I could be dead wrong on this one but after watching the first event thats the conclusion i've come up with.
MondayNiteMauser
3/19/08 9:23:18AM

Posted by BlazinSaddle

given time Dream will be in with UFC picks here on the playground, kind of suprised that it isnt, probably because it was a big tournament, i love Dream i hope they surpass the UFC someday like Pride did



Dream doesn't have a chance in hell of passing the UFC for two reasons....they don't market to america and they are ran by corrupt, money hungry, japs!
cmill21
3/19/08 6:48:33PM

Posted by MondayNiteMauser


Posted by BlazinSaddle

given time Dream will be in with UFC picks here on the playground, kind of suprised that it isnt, probably because it was a big tournament, i love Dream i hope they surpass the UFC someday like Pride did



Dream doesn't have a chance in hell of passing the UFC for two reasons....they don't market to america and they are ran by corrupt, money hungry, japs!



Good post. You do know that in Japan they've already past the UFC lol. So no in the US they won't pass the UFC but lucky for them they have 40,000+ an event and alot of TV coverage. The US isn't the only place in the world.
ICSlegend
3/19/08 9:51:47PM

Posted by MondayNiteMauser


Posted by BlazinSaddle

given time Dream will be in with UFC picks here on the playground, kind of suprised that it isnt, probably because it was a big tournament, i love Dream i hope they surpass the UFC someday like Pride did



Dream doesn't have a chance in hell of passing the UFC for two reasons....they don't market to america and they are ran by corrupt, money hungry, japs!



The same ones that built PRIDE, what many consider the greatest MMA organization of all time, spanning an entire decade of success? I don't get why people say PRIDE was a failure or bad business. They were the premiere worldwide MMA organization (not in the USA, but the world is a big place) for a long time, how is that bad business? Nothing lasts forever.
Rush
3/19/08 9:59:27PM

Posted by MondayNiteMauser

they are ran by corrupt, money hungry, japs!




And there are no corrupt, money hungry Americans running MMA organizations?
jocksmall
3/19/08 11:17:04PM
japan is a huge fight market they love the stuff more than us. someone was bound to fill the void . i thought the ufc was going to take advantage of the pride name and the japanesse market at first but i guess it wasnt in the cards. so i guess its going to be dream that does. they will support the sport in japan and that will allow dream to sign top fighters so i think its possible dream could be a good org. in the future. the more the better.
guys dont start comparing the fighters or you will drive some of the long time posters crazy. its way to early to start saying dream vs ufc . its going to get pinned right under ufc vs pride lol...
hippysmacker
3/20/08 2:16:27AM

Posted by Rush


Posted by MondayNiteMauser

they are ran by corrupt, money hungry, japs!




And there are no corrupt, money hungry Americans running MMA organizations?



I think its possible there may be some, but the biggest difference for me is the sanctioning bodies here . Thats limits the negative aspects of possible corruption of promoters here for me.
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