Dream Refs

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scoozna
3/15/08 11:47:00PM
Is it just me or do the Refs in Dream let the beatdown go on waaaay longer than USA refs? I'm thinking of the Alvarez and Sakurai fights. In a way I like it - but of course I don't want anyone to get hurt...
wolfman
3/16/08 12:03:56AM
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing during the Dida/Alvarez fight. In general I think you are right in your observation. The PRIDE refs seemed to be this way as well, it is good and bad at times for obvious reasons.
cmill21
3/16/08 2:18:34AM
It's because they ask the guy if they want to give up, they don't take it away from them I suppose you could say. The way of the warrior and all that. Whenever the ref has his hand out and is pointing at the guy he's asking if he wants out, if he doesn't tap or say yeah the ref lets it go until he gets into a real bad position lol.
juanez13
3/16/08 10:53:49AM

Posted by cmill21

It's because they ask the guy if they want to give up, they don't take it away from them I suppose you could say. The way of the warrior and all that. Whenever the ref has his hand out and is pointing at the guy he's asking if he wants out, if he doesn't tap or say yeah the ref lets it go until he gets into a real bad position lol.



True, and in my opinion that Refs in the UFC stop everything way too soon, and i mean everything....if it was sakara/leben in pride/ Dream, i bet sakara wouldnt be complaining about the stoppage.
Whispering_Death
3/16/08 11:20:39AM
Japanese reffs are much better in that way. They give professional fighters a chance to actually fight. The Japanese culture is much more understanding of fight sports and gives its referees more leeway. In America, our culture just can't wait to start running tabloid articles about a bad referee leading to an injured fighter in MMA.

In Japan they have a much higher tolerance for consenting adults putting their health on the line in dramatic fights. Kazushi Sakuraba's mangled face was all over the front pages in Japan under headlines talking about how much of a warrior he was and how great of a fight he put up. The only way a picture like that would be on the front page of American magazines was if it was under a headline of "MMA Most Brutal Sport Ever Must Be Shut Down!!!!!!!"

That's the difference.
Mastodon2
3/16/08 1:11:40PM
I much prefer the Japanese refs. Did anyone notice that the ref in the Cro Cop fight was a guy who reffed in Pride, and IIRC has reffed Cro cop's fights before?

The only Japanese ref you need to worry about is this man, the notorious Nobuaki Kakuda! Anyone who knows a bit about K-1 will know how this man bent the rules of K-1 to make Bob Sapp a marketting monster, perhaps at the expense of a bit of his personal integrity!

scoozna
3/16/08 3:44:10PM

Posted by cmill21

It's because they ask the guy if they want to give up, they don't take it away from them I suppose you could say. The way of the warrior and all that. Whenever the ref has his hand out and is pointing at the guy he's asking if he wants out, if he doesn't tap or say yeah the ref lets it go until he gets into a real bad position lol.



I figured that's why they are pointing...I never knew for sure though. I agree here, if the fighter still has any wits about them, let them verbally "tap".
Kpro
3/18/08 1:26:15AM
Forget rule differences, the ref's are my favorite aspect of Japanese MMA.
Svartorm
3/18/08 3:10:52AM

Posted by Mastodon2

I much prefer the Japanese refs. Did anyone notice that the ref in the Cro Cop fight was a guy who reffed in Pride, and IIRC has reffed Cro cop's fights before?

The only Japanese ref you need to worry about is this man, the notorious Nobuaki Kakuda! Anyone who knows a bit about K-1 will know how this man bent the rules of K-1 to make Bob Sapp a marketting monster, perhaps at the expense of a bit of his personal integrity!




He also threw a fight against Akebono so he could have a win for once.
hippysmacker
3/18/08 6:08:24AM

Posted by juanez13


Posted by cmill21

It's because they ask the guy if they want to give up, they don't take it away from them I suppose you could say. The way of the warrior and all that. Whenever the ref has his hand out and is pointing at the guy he's asking if he wants out, if he doesn't tap or say yeah the ref lets it go until he gets into a real bad position lol.



True, and in my opinion that Refs in the UFC stop everything way too soon, and i mean everything....if it was sakara/leben in pride/ Dream, i bet sakara wouldntbe complaining about the stoppage.



I wouldn't say they stop everything too soon, but I think your point is legitimate.I think it has more to do with Japanese culture as Cmill mentioined. A safe middle ground between some Japanese refs and the other refs would make more sense to me. Of course it's really a ref-to-ref thing in some cases. I think some fights that are stopped to early , would have needed to be stopped 5 seconds later, if the ref just let it go. Still, even though it looks obvious ,we will never know for sure. These days I think Herb Dean would stop the Hughes/Trigg 2 fight too fast, even though Yamasaki didn't. I am not a Yamasaki fan ,because I beleive Hughes was mostly in trouble becuase he missed the nutt shot Trigg landed. There are only 2 fights where I feel a ref was really negligent .Yoshida /Thompson is one. When a ref drags a semi-conscious guy to the middle of the ring, because he can't make it himself , he should be criminally negligible IMO. Also Sakuraba, as much as I will always love his heart & he will be a legend forever to me, needs to retire IMO. In K-1 I thought Smirnovas was going to kill him, and if it weren't for a bad ref decision giving him a break it might have happened. He came back to win, but I think it only becuase the ref gave him a break. I' d rather Smirnovas get screwed then Saku die though. Japanese samurai code or not, i don't think anyone should die in the ring. Saku has said he wants to , and fear it could happen. I don't think it's really a Dream ref thing , so much as it is a Japanese cultural thing. Stil,l a lot of other refs go the other way and are too jumpy stopping fights for me. Moderation in most things is the best course, and I think that safe middle ground is still not a regular occurrence in MMA.
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