DREAM - Worthy of Primary League status now?

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emfleek
7/21/08 1:13:03PM
Dream's hosted 5 events now. Is there any chance we'll be seeing it as part of the Primary league anytime soon?

Please? I love you.
CantAndleDaRiddum
7/21/08 1:14:58PM
i think they should be......last night IMO was better than banned & thats w/ diaz/sakurai, kang, kid & crocop
npayant
7/21/08 1:17:44PM
I pretty much agree...

The only problem I see is that the cards have been pretty unstable. A lot of fights scratched/switched... a lot of fights added practically during weigh ins. I think the main thing the site is looking for is stable cards for the primary league. As of right now, it would be hard to keep up with all of the changes.
Aaronno9
7/21/08 1:17:45PM
I have to disagree. Every show they put on seems to have at least 2 late editions which the mods dont have to time to put on the card, and even if they did to many people would miss picks becouse of the short notice. That usually leaves us with like 6-7 picks to make which hardly seems worth it.

Id rather see the WEC in the primary league than dream.
npayant
7/21/08 1:18:44PM

Posted by Aaronno9

I have to disagree. Every show they put on seems to have at least 2 late editions which the mods dont have to time to put on the card, and even if they did to many people would miss picks becouse of the short notice. That usually leaves us with like 6-7 picks to make which hardly seems worth it.

Id rather see the WEC in the primary league than dream.



We must have posted at the same time!!

I like the idea of the WEC though
emfleek
7/21/08 1:19:59PM

Posted by Aaronno9

Id rather see the WEC in the primary league than dream.



I'd be okay with that, too. The Primary league needs SOMETHING, though.

So, I take it I'm not the only one who failed to make picks for all of the DREAM fights? I think I picked 7 fights and when I was reading the results, I was like, "What the hell? That fight wasn't listed when I made my picks!"
juanez13
7/21/08 1:21:16PM
I think they should be, and about the late additions, they're no worse than Pride was, the mods just gotta be on their toes

but i agree, the primary league needs something besides the UFC, we need another org to be included so that us that watch other orgs have our times to shine, not just people that watch UFC only.
Aaronno9
7/21/08 1:22:03PM
Yeah i only made 7 picks, but one of the mods said earlier they didnt put the other 2 fights up becouse they where made after the cut off point which is like 12 hours before the event. I agree with the princible though, itd be nice to have something else to pick.

Like npayant said though, dream just seems to be a little to unstable. I guess pride was kind of the same deal though sometimes so who knows.


Edit - Ha, second time somebodies just beat me to the post
DCRage
7/21/08 1:31:14PM
I'd like to say yes, but given what happened in the couple weeks leading up to today's card, no.


but i agree, the primary league needs something besides the UFC, we need another org to be included so that us that watch other orgs have our times to shine, not just people that watch UFC only.

I've said it before about this and I'll say it again...WEC.
MMAcca
7/21/08 2:13:27PM
WEC would be a good addition
Evilwig
7/21/08 2:18:25PM
yep WEC should be the one added and think it has a bigger audience than dream.
joshryanshepherd
7/21/08 3:05:19PM
If Affliction plans to keep their Fight Organization up and running, i think that'll be the first org to be moved from secondary to primary. everything seemed a little off with affliction though...like the weigh-ins, those were a mess. But the fights and the fighters were top notch.


and it would be ridiculous if Dream AND Affliction were kept in the secondary league and seeing the likes of Fedor, Barnett, Aleks, CroCop, Lindland, Rizzo, Sylvia and Aoki in the Secondaries...
zephead
7/21/08 3:08:36PM

Posted by joshryanshepherd

If Affliction plans to keep their Fight Organization up and running, i think that'll be the first org to be moved from secondary to primary. everything seemed a little off with affliction though...like the weigh-ins, those were a mess. But the fights and the fighters were top notch.


and it would be ridiculous if Dream AND Affliction were kept in the secondary league and seeing the likes of Fedor, Barnett, Aleks, CroCop, Lindland, Rizzo, Sylvia and Aoki in the Secondaries...



They won't be kept in the Secondary League if they run like a professional league. It's just crazy to announce fights the day of the weigh in. Sorry, but that's not professional.


Affliction has to keep it up and not say, "We'll do 3 fights and go from there." If they're in it for the long haul something might happen. We dropped Cage Rage because it was just getting to crazy with them.
Rush
7/21/08 3:09:50PM
Some good points on either side. Personally I'd like to see Dream in the primary league. Right now it might as well be called the UFC league.

Then again, it's just a game so it really doesn't matter
Svartorm
7/21/08 4:13:17PM
Dream definitely needs to lay off the late additions and scraped fights before they're added.

If Affliction consistantly puts on cards of that quality, I'm sure they'll be there in no time. They had one fight not go down because of something out of their control, and they found a decent replacement to boot.
emfleek
7/21/08 4:16:11PM

Posted by Svartorm

Dream definitely needs to lay off the late additions and scraped fights before they're added.

If Affliction consistantly puts on cards of that quality, I'm sure they'll be there in no time. They had one fight not go down because of something out of their control, and they found a decent replacement to boot.



What about WEC? They're consistent enough, aren't they?
emfleek
7/21/08 4:24:39PM

Posted by TequilaMan2000


Posted by emfleek


What about WEC? They're consistent enough, aren't they?



Consistent, but they are clearly minor leagues...

Not primary league material. The Dream card, and the Affliction card were primary league material (ie, many Top 10 fighters, whereas WEC has ZERO TOP 10 FIGHTERS)...

No way... that would be lame. If they don't consistently have Top 10 fighters, they shouldn't even be considered for the Primary league.


And as far as Dream being late or whatever... that's how Pride was.



Antonio Banuelos is Top 5!!!!!!!

emfleek
7/21/08 4:36:02PM
I wasn't actually serious about Banuelos.

But you're right...Faber, Torres, Pulver. The WEC has LOTS of great talent. It just so happens that they're not your typical household names.

I think the WEC would be a great addition to the Primary league.

And if I didn't despise Gary Shaw so much, I'd say the same thing about EliteXC.
iwannabesedated
7/21/08 4:40:47PM
I think the UFC should be the only thing in the primary league.

UFN had 6000 and some picks..and Dream 5 only had like 2000 and some picks

So thats roughly around 3500 to 4000 members who didnt pick the dream card.



But im sure once people log in and see a card other than the UFC in the Primary they would pick it im sure....

My vote would be WEC though.
emfleek
7/21/08 4:47:55PM

Posted by 40ouncetofreedom

I think the UFC should be the only thing in the primary league.

UFN had 6000 and some picks..and Dream 5 only had like 2000 and some picks

So thats roughly around 3500 to 4000 members who didnt pick the dream card.



Put it on the Primary league and the numbers would be the same as the UFC numbers. Those 4000 people that didn't pick probably don't participate in the Secondary league.
iwannabesedated
7/21/08 4:49:40PM

Posted by emfleek


Posted by 40ouncetofreedom

I think the UFC should be the only thing in the primary league.

UFN had 6000 and some picks..and Dream 5 only had like 2000 and some picks

So thats roughly around 3500 to 4000 members who didnt pick the dream card.



Put it on the Primary league and the numbers would be the same as the UFC numbers. Those 4000 people that didn't pick probably don't participate in the Secondary league.



True ...you just must've not read where i said

But im sure once people log in and see a card other than the UFC in the Primary they would pick it im sure
emfleek
7/21/08 4:54:28PM
You're right...I didn't see that.

Now I must cut you.
iwannabesedated
7/21/08 4:55:44PM

Posted by emfleek

You're right...I didn't see that.

Now I must cut you.



I bleed Jelly and Jack Daniels...
juanez13
7/21/08 5:06:09PM
Why cant they put an event in the primary, but not the Org?

The mods say that they cant add the orgs because they have to be consistent, why cant they just add the shows that are primary league worthy, and if the ones after that are good enough, put them in the secondary league.

Say Elite XC has a good card coming up on july 26, and they think its worthy (have the mods vote if they think its worthy?) than the event will be added to the primary league, and if they dont continue to put on good cards than take them off.

You know wat i mean?? take it event by event, and not the Org, whatever event is worthy of being in the primary league is added, the rest are in the secondary league, regardless of what Org is putting on the event.

just throwing idea around
Svartorm
7/22/08 3:55:52AM

Posted by juanez13

Why cant they put an event in the primary, but not the Org?

The mods say that they cant add the orgs because they have to be consistent, why cant they just add the shows that are primary league worthy, and if the ones after that are good enough, put them in the secondary league.

Say Elite XC has a good card coming up on july 26, and they think its worthy (have the mods vote if they think its worthy?) than the event will be added to the primary league, and if they dont continue to put on good cards than take them off.

You know wat i mean?? take it event by event, and not the Org, whatever event is worthy of being in the primary league is added, the rest are in the secondary league, regardless of what Org is putting on the event.

just throwing idea around



Its a good idea, but won't work in practice. The reason the org is in secondary is because they're inconsistant, not just with card quality, but with the card staying together. Almost every Strikeforce and EXC card looks GREAT when they first announce it. Its the weeks leading up to it where everyone gets injured, can't get visas, gets double booked etc that we have problems with, and then we end up with a crap card in Primary league. Programming wise, the primary and secondary leagues are completely seperate as well, so if we were to move the card from one to the other if it falls apart, we'd have to completely reset everything, so all the picks, wagers, odds, etc would have to be redone, and thats a huge pain in the ass.

I know everyone is antsy to have something new in the Primary league, but we'd rather do this right than have to add an org and then take it out after a few dissapointing events.

As for the WEC being added, one of the concerns is that not a lot of people are able to watch it. Most people don't have Vs. in their cable package and its not big enough to be featured at too many bars that I've seen. Talent wise, they're fine, and their cards are consistant, so we'll see. Plus theres the added bonus of them never putting a card on at the same time as a UFC. If the UFC keeps trying to counter Affliction with free cards, we might have to do a double header if we add them to the primary, as you'd only be able to bet on one event otherwise.
Sinatra
7/22/08 6:05:57PM
Dream, WEC, and EXC should all be primary league events
Darnok
7/22/08 6:53:30PM
I like it with just the UFC, but if some other of the other orgs become more consistent but also have enough veiwers. My problem is that if we have events in the primary league it could really hurt our camps if it has fighters people don't know. I know I have a few noobs in my camp that only watch UFC and they wouldn't know how to make picks for Dream or WEC
Jackelope
7/22/08 11:04:26PM
Don't get me wrong.. I love the WEC and Dream.. but I'm not sure if they're primary league ready yet. Dream I could see making a solid argument for, but WEC I can't really simply because they are kind of a "minor leagues" for the UFC.

The main problem I see is the non hardcore hardcores (I.E. all of us posting in this thread ) not being able to identify with fighters. WEC, Dream, and EliteXC all still put on cards in which at least 2 of the bouts have fighters with hardly anything listed about them on Sherdog. Or in the case of Dream they're full of asian fighters the average fan isn't familiar with.

If you get guys who only have time to follow events like the UFC they're going to be completely lost in the sauce when they see Fighter A vs. Fighter B each with 2 fights to their names in local shows. Some just aren't "in the know" enough because they don't follow the sport religiously, so the picks for them would be kind of unfair.

I dunno, kind of firing in the dark but I'm trying to look at it from a casual fan's standpoint and like it or not this site probably caters to a lot more casual fans than it does hardcores. Still... food for thought
Svartorm
7/23/08 2:46:09AM
Yeah, thats one of the reasons I think Affliction will be Primary if they continue. The fighters are easily recognizable to the average MMA fan, and if not, they all have extensive records, so you actually have something to go on. That and their show was professionally done, available to the public, and they even had the free undercard show.
emfleek
7/23/08 9:11:45AM
So, basically...we're still about a year away from another org being added to the Primary league? Certainly Affliction won't be added without 3 or 4 events (at the very least) under their belts. Will they?
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