What to DISLIKE about BJ Penn

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Rush
8/20/08 9:23:24PM

Posted by Franklinfan47

The fans. The fans are the whole reason he even has a job. And while I can't speak for everyone, I think alot of fans would like to see a solid lw champion for a little while, including multiple title defenses. There was no champ for the longest time then the new champ tested for roids. I'd personally like to see some dam integrity brought back to that belt.

We all know Penn and GSP will fight again sometime down the road, but for now, can't Penn put his pride aside for a bit and stay at lw while the ufc builds a solid division around him? Just one fans opinion.

Edit: and also, he should consider the opinion of the organization that made him a star. I'm sure the ufc doesnt want one guy holding two of their belts and slowing up the title fight process, not to mention, deterring from their own visions for the direction of the company.




He owes the fans nothing really. He doesn't fight for us, he fights for whoever pays him.

I never understood the need to defend titles. As long as fighters are fighting fights, then I am happy. I could care less about titles. They are for the fighters not the fans, IMO.

The only reason he should consider the vision of his employer is because they pay his salary. Other than that, if he wants to risk going and doing his own thing, that's his prerogative.
Diamondback2
8/20/08 11:14:38PM

Posted by Rush

He owes the fans nothing really. He doesn't fight for us, he fights for whoever pays him.

I never understood the need to defend titles. As long as fighters are fighting fights, then I am happy. I could care less about titles. They are for the fighters not the fans, IMO.

The only reason he should consider the vision of his employer is because they pay his salary. Other than that, if he wants to risk going and doing his own thing, that's his prerogative.




Yeah it's up to the fighter. Could not agree more.

And here's what you are all forgetting about BJ. He does NOT need to fight. Ever..... He never has to do anything again...... He could retire tomorrow and live very comfortably.

But BJ Penn = $$$$$$. Thus the UFC does not really have much control over him. If he doesn't get what he wants he can up and leave. Imagine if Penn left UFC for Affliction how bad that would be for the UFC. Don't think he would o it? He did once already after he beat Hughes.

That's why you shouldn't dislike the guy. He is choosing to fight GSP, who is on pretty much everyone's Top 3 list. He could fight Florian, but why? Florian already has the Stevenson fight which is a great #1 contender match. PLus Florian is on virtually no one's top 10 P4P lists. Which victory would mean more in the long run? Florian or GSP...... People still talk very avidly about the first fight, but if BJ steamrolls thru Florian (like i'm pretty confident he will) will anyone remember it?

Let's face it, Penn//GSP II could be one of the greatest fights ever. I know any fight can, but this fight has alot more possibility of being FOTY than Penn/.Florian.

As fans we've talked about a match between 2 fighters on top 5 p4p forever, Penn's really trying to make it happen!
BIGKAT
8/21/08 12:03:55AM
bj is daaaaaaaa mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!
LionHeartWarchild
8/21/08 12:10:04AM
IU believe his statements on taking the WW and MW titles were included in Countdown to UFC 84. Can't think off the top where he mentioned Wanderlei, but I'll look around.
VictimSix
8/21/08 7:42:51AM



That's why you shouldn't dislike the guy. He is choosing to fight GSP, who is on pretty much everyone's Top 3 list. He could fight Florian, but why? Florian already has the Stevenson fight which is a great #1 contender match. PLus Florian is on virtually no one's top 10 P4P lists. Which victory would mean more in the long run? Florian or GSP...... People still talk very avidly about the first fight, but if BJ steamrolls thru Florian (like i'm pretty confident he will) will anyone remember it?

Let's face it, Penn//GSP II could be one of the greatest fights ever. I know any fight can, but this fight has alot more possibility of being FOTY than Penn/.Florian.

As fans we've talked about a match between 2 fighters on top 5 p4p forever, Penn's really trying to make it happen!


Good post. From the start Bj has wanted to fight the best guys, belts don't matter, weight dosn't matter. Thats something to respect imo. I don't know why anybody would want to wait for Penn/Gsp, they are at the top of their game RIGHT NOW. Sure I would like to see him defend the belt I guess but I mean come on, Penn/KenFlo or Gsp. I think the people that are crying for these two to clean out the divisions just don't want their respective boy to loose.

Maybe I'm just jaded from being a boxing fan for so long but I don't give two sh*ts about belts.
Belts=ppv buys. The best wanting to fight the best is what fighting is all about.
the_01
8/21/08 8:33:58AM
I wanna see Kenny Florian vs. BJ Penn, and I personnaly believe Florian will take the decision. If, by all means, Penn wins, then maybe he can get a shot at GSP.
Aether
8/21/08 8:44:46AM

Posted by the_01

I wanna see Kenny Florian vs. BJ Penn, and I personnaly believe Florian will take the decision. If, by all means, Penn wins, then maybe he can get a shot at GSP.



...



Are you for real?

Kenny is a great fighter but... man... would you honestly pick kenny florian to win? There is nothing kenny is better at than BJ... maybe elbowing people? I don't think that would matter because there's no situation where kenny could plausibly use elbows. If he goes to the ground he'll get dominated, highly unlikely he'll gain a dominant ground position to utilize his elbows against someone with BJ's level of Jiu Jitsu. Of course on the feet elbows are not exactly the most effective weapon, and BJ's boxing is vastly superior.

I'm not flaming or anything, but I don't see any way you could possibly justify that pick. Can you break down the fight to explain more clearly?
Trapt1nw0nder
8/21/08 9:13:10AM

Posted by The_Italian_Stallion

You know what I hate about BJ? His perfectly spherical baby head...

But in all seriousness I absolutely can't stand the blood licking thing! It peeves me to the core every time I see it. All the people who are whining about Brock's little lasso dance need to shut their mouths because I bet you 80 percent of them have BJ in their top 3 favorites and yet they have nothing to say about his disgusting little celebration thing.

Also I hate his cockiness and selfishness but I understand that's his thing in marketing or whatever.

I hated BJ so much before I bought and watched TUF 5 but since then I actually can stand him most of the time. (Minus the stupid blood thing) One of my favorite moments of TUF 5 was when he impersonated Wang crying... it makes me laugh every time I think of it.

I still don't like him, but I definetly respect him now...



you kidding me?....BJ Penn licking the blood off his opponents is expected from him....what we hated about Brock was that he acts like a "Humbled Country Boy" before the fight...and even after he lost to Mir....NO,but when he wins!...he starts dancing around like a 300LB gorilla in a fight the other guy had no chance.......Its like.."Pick on someone your own size"....He's just like Matt Hughes.....
Aether
8/21/08 12:06:43PM
to me the reason it was different is that licking blood, playing guitar, dancing, jumping on the cage etc. etc. doesn't involve directly demeaning your opponents. I didn't really even have a problem with the lasso, people refer to the lasso every time they make this argument but they conveniently leave out the parts where he openly points and laughs as well as the time where he sits on his back and pretends to ride him like a horse WHILE THEY'RE FIGHTING.

To me these things aren't even close to being comparable. BJ licking blood off his gloves might be disgusting to some people from a sanitary point of view, but it's really not insulting or demeaning to his opponents. If he walked up to them and licked the blood off of their face or something I would definitely be calling BJ a disrespectful idiot.

I find people who defend brock's antics generally only ever talk about the lasso action which is really not what people found to be disrespectful. He can throw invisible lassos all he wants, sitting on an opponents back in an attempt to demean them and make them look like an animal is not the same thing.
VictimSix
8/22/08 8:42:54AM

Posted by the_01

I wanna see Kenny Florian vs. BJ Penn, and I personnaly believe Florian will take the decision. If, by all means, Penn wins, then maybe he can get a shot at GSP.


If he couldn't deal with Sherks wrestling how is going to deal with Bj's wrestling along with his jits? Also as much as I like Joe Rogan im really sick of hearing how Florians standup is "outstanding". Improved yes, outstanding, not even close. How do you think Florian takes this?

I can't even see Bj gassing in this fight, if he starts to get tired he can just stay on the outside and nail solid jabs all night long 'cause Florian will most likley come in with a striking game plan. A fight I wouldn't mind seeing but throw sombody in there that will actually test and possibly beat Bj.
breakdown5
8/22/08 2:31:38PM
There is nothing to dislike about BJ Penn. He is legend. He gets fans pumped for his fights and is a great fighter. Get over it.
MikeyG
8/22/08 2:48:07PM

Posted by breakdown5

There is nothing to dislike about BJ Penn. He is legend. He gets fans pumped for his fights and is a great fighter. Get over it.



exactly, end of thread right there
copcopps
8/22/08 3:47:03PM
Nobpdy's perfect and BJ ain't the exception. He''s a good fighter but IMO he can has a bit of that Diaz mentality where he thinks the world owes him a living even though he's a rich kid. Plus he was so mean to Andy Wang :(
MikeyG
8/22/08 3:54:42PM

Posted by copcopps

Nobpdy's perfect and BJ ain't the exception. He''s a good fighter but IMO he can has a bit of that Diaz mentality where he thinks the world owes him a living even though he's a rich kid. Plus he was so mean to Andy Wang :(



BJ dosnt make the matches so I dont see why people say fighters pick their fights or think that the org. owes them, he dosnt have control.

And seriously, look me in the face and tell me Andy didnt deserve that mental assault.
VictimSix
8/24/08 10:51:15AM

Posted by copcopps

Nobpdy's perfect and BJ ain't the exception. He''s a good fighter but IMO he can has a bit of that Diaz mentality where he thinks the world owes him a living even though he's a rich kid. Plus he was so mean to Andy Wang :(


Diaz scraps for every dollar he's made, I don't see that as a bad mentality to have as far as earning a living goes.

jocka
8/24/08 12:41:10PM

Posted by MikeyG


Posted by copcopps

Nobpdy's perfect and BJ ain't the exception. He''s a good fighter but IMO he can has a bit of that Diaz mentality where he thinks the world owes him a living even though he's a rich kid. Plus he was so mean to Andy Wang :(



BJ dosnt make the matches so I dont see why people say fighters pick their fights or think that the org. owes them, he dosnt have control.

And seriously, look me in the face and tell me Andy didnt deserve that mental assault.



Are you serious, you honestly think that huge popular fighter don't have a saying in their matches, they would not want a guy like BJ or GSP or Henderson Silva leave the Ufc so of course if BJ wants to fight GSP they will give him GSP since GSP publicly stated that he would not duck anyone so there you go. I think BJ should defend his title first but hey this fight is gonna be sick
Diamondback2
8/24/08 12:43:18PM

Posted by copcopps

BJ dosnt make the matches so I dont see why people say fighters pick their fights or think that the org. owes them, he dosnt have control.

And seriously, look me in the face and tell me Andy didnt deserve that mental assault.




As i stated before, with BJ the org doesn't have the control. If BJ does not liek what hes getting he can up and leave, ala after Penn/Hughes I.

BJ does not need to fight. He dosent need the fans, he dosent need the UFC, he dosent need anything. he's set for life, he does not owe anyone anything.

it's not like Chuck where the UFC and the fans made him a millionare, BJ was rich from sqaure one.

and if BJ leaves that's a total disaster for the UFC. they have alot of money in him, hes a HUGE PPV draw. It's actually quite opposite, Penn dosen't need the UFC, the UFC needs him.
jocka
8/24/08 10:15:00PM

Posted by Diamondback2


Posted by jocka


Posted by Franklinfan47

I think your definately right about him only taking fights that can benefit himself. The guy defends his title once then decides he doesnt want to fight at lw anymore. What happend to the integrity of the belt



actually he never defended his title, he won the interim title against stevenson and then got the real tittle against Sherk. But i do agree that he needs to defend his title multiple times before moving up




Im surprised you come to sites like this, and would not know something basic like that.....


[/QUOTE}

The reason am saying that he did not defend his title is because Sherk Technicly lost his title via drug test not in the cage so what BJ was holding was a paper belt since he never defended the champ. He dominated Sherk there is not doubt that he is the champ but yet as he defended it
Diamondback2
8/24/08 10:35:06PM

Posted by jocka

The reason am saying that he did not defend his title is because Sherk Technicly lost his title via drug test not in the cage so what BJ was holding was a paper belt since he never defended the champ. He dominated Sherk there is not doubt that he is the champ but yet as he defended it




I am a man of facts. And the facts very clearly state that Sean Sherk was stripped of his title for using steroids. So thus the BJ/Stevenson fight which was originally supposed to be for the Interm title was made into a full title fight.

According to your theroy, Frank Mir is still the true Heavyweight champ because no one beat him in the cage for it.

Or The winner of Mir/Nogeriua is not the champ because they did not beat Couture for it, and thus can never defend it if Randy does not come back.

Or even that Anderson Silva is truly the Interm Middleweight Champ, because no one ever beat Frank Shamrock was never beaten for it so Frank Shamrock is the Real UFC Middleweight Champion.

"actually he never defended his title, he won the interim title against stevenson and then got the real tittle against Sherk."

You stated this as a fact, but it is not no matter how much you wish it was. If you had put somehing along the lines of "In My Opinion" or "As far as i am concerned" it would have been a different story.

I'm big on facts, and the FACTS CLEARLY state that BJ HAS defended the UFC Lightweight Title At UFC 84 on May 24. 2008 against Sean Sherk.

jocka
8/26/08 4:05:00PM

Posted by Diamondback2


Posted by jocka

The reason am saying that he did not defend his title is because Sherk Technicly lost his title via drug test not in the cage so what BJ was holding was a paper belt since he never defended the champ. He dominated Sherk there is not doubt that he is the champ but yet as he defended it




I am a man of facts. And the facts very clearly state that Sean Sherk was stripped of his title for using steroids. So thus the BJ/Stevenson fight which was originally supposed to be for the Interm title was made into a full title fight.

According to your theroy, Frank Mir is still the true Heavyweight champ because no one beat him in the cage for it.

Or The winner of Mir/Nogeriua is not the champ because they did not beat Couture for it, and thus can never defend it if Randy does not come back.

Or even that Anderson Silva is truly the Interm Middleweight Champ, because no one ever beat Frank Shamrock was never beaten for it so Frank Shamrock is the Real UFC Middleweight Champion.

"actually he never defended his title, he won the interim title against stevenson and then got the real tittle against Sherk."

You stated this as a fact, but it is not no matter how much you wish it was. If you had put somehing along the lines of "In My Opinion" or "As far as i am concerned" it would have been a different story.

I'm big on facts, and the FACTS CLEARLY state that BJ HAS defended the UFC Lightweight Title At UFC 84 on May 24. 2008 against Sean Sherk.




Well it was stated as my opinion but you assumed that i was stating facts, In fact BJ defended his tittle against Sherk thats true. If you want to be a FACT person you should know that NOG is the interim Champion not the HW Champion Randy Couture is and thats from the UFC site.
mkiv9secsupra
8/26/08 4:23:29PM

Posted by Diamondback2



I am a man of facts. And the facts very clearly state that Sean Sherk was stripped of his title for using steroids. So thus the BJ/Stevenson fight which

I'm big on facts, and the FACTS CLEARLY state that BJ HAS defended the UFC Lightweight Title At UFC 84 on May 24. 2008 against Sean Sherk.
was originally supposed to be for the Interm title was made into a full title fight.

Or The winner of Mir/Nogeriua is not the champ because they did not beat Couture for it, and thus can never defend it if Randy does not come back.



if you want to talk facts....then the fact is BJ has never defended the undisputed lightweight championship. He defended his interim championship against Sherk to determine the undisputed champion......thats how interim titles work

and technically Randy Couture is and always will be the UFC's HW champ until they officially strip him or he fights Nogueira
MikeyG
8/26/08 5:51:47PM

Posted by jocka


Posted by MikeyG


Posted by copcopps

Nobpdy's perfect and BJ ain't the exception. He''s a good fighter but IMO he can has a bit of that Diaz mentality where he thinks the world owes him a living even though he's a rich kid. Plus he was so mean to Andy Wang :(



BJ dosnt make the matches so I dont see why people say fighters pick their fights or think that the org. owes them, he dosnt have control.

And seriously, look me in the face and tell me Andy didnt deserve that mental assault.



Are you serious, you honestly think that huge popular fighter don't have a saying in their matches, they would not want a guy like BJ or GSP or Henderson Silva leave the Ufc so of course if BJ wants to fight GSP they will give him GSP since GSP publicly stated that he would not duck anyone so there you go. I think BJ should defend his title first but hey this fight is gonna be sick



Well he can request fights and in they like the fighter (in this case they like BJ) they will probably make them, but he himself cant make them. I agree its an epic superfight. Good luck to both of them.
Diamondback2
8/26/08 7:51:02PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

if you want to talk facts....then the fact is BJ has never defended the undisputed lightweight championship. He defended his interim championship against Sherk to determine the undisputed champion......thats how interim titles work

and technically Randy Couture is and always will be the UFC's HW champ until they officially strip him or he fights Nogueira




BJ Penn Wikipedia
Sean Sherk Wiki


The title that BJ won against Joe was the UNDISPUTED CHAMPION!!!! For the last time.

I understand how interm titles, and the fight against Joe Stevenson was for THE UNDISPUTED CHAMPION


UFC 80 Website

Go to indepth Videos > Penn vs Stevenson.

THE FIRST LINE OUT OF DANA'S MOUTH:

"This fight between BJ Penn and Joe Stevenson is for the Lightweight Championship of the UFC. Now, Sean Sherk was found guilty, he's been suspended by the CSAC. Because of that we stripped him of his title. So BJ and Joe are fighting for the lightweight championship."

I cannot really believe I am having this argument, for real guys check your facts, this discussion has Gotten WAYYYYY off point.


And I agree Randy is the champ until he is stripped. The general consensus is that prior to the December card the UFC will strip him of his title and make Mir and Nog for the undisputed title. If it dosent happen that way, i stand corrected but that is what everyone is saying.

And Jocka: Where did you EVER once state that was your opinion. It was stated as a fact, seriously. Show me where you said it was an opinion and i will show you the value of the imaginary number A.
mkiv9secsupra
8/26/08 8:34:33PM

Posted by Diamondback2


Posted by mkiv9secsupra

if you want to talk facts....then the fact is BJ has never defended the undisputed lightweight championship. He defended his interim championship against Sherk to determine the undisputed champion......thats how interim titles work

and technically Randy Couture is and always will be the UFC's HW champ until they officially strip him or he fights Nogueira




BJ Penn Wikipedia
Sean Sherk Wiki


The title that BJ won against Joe was the UNDISPUTED CHAMPION!!!! For the last time.

I understand how interm titles, and the fight against Joe Stevenson was for THE UNDISPUTED CHAMPION


UFC 80 Website

Go to indepth Videos > Penn vs Stevenson.

THE FIRST LINE OUT OF DANA'S MOUTH:

"This fight between BJ Penn and Joe Stevenson is for the Lightweight Championship of the UFC. Now, Sean Sherk was found guilty, he's been suspended by the CSAC. Because of that we stripped him of his title. So BJ and Joe are fighting for the lightweight championship."



then why did the event commercial say interim title?
jocka
8/26/08 8:35:58PM

Posted by Diamondback2


Posted by mkiv9secsupra

if you want to talk facts....then the fact is BJ has never defended the undisputed lightweight championship. He defended his interim championship against Sherk to determine the undisputed champion......thats how interim titles work

and technically Randy Couture is and always will be the UFC's HW champ until they officially strip him or he fights Nogueira




BJ Penn Wikipedia
Sean Sherk Wiki


The title that BJ won against Joe was the UNDISPUTED CHAMPION!!!! For the last time.

I understand how interm titles, and the fight against Joe Stevenson was for THE UNDISPUTED CHAMPION


UFC 80 Website

Go to indepth Videos > Penn vs Stevenson.

THE FIRST LINE OUT OF DANA'S MOUTH:

"This fight between BJ Penn and Joe Stevenson is for the Lightweight Championship of the UFC. Now, Sean Sherk was found guilty, he's been suspended by the CSAC. Because of that we stripped him of his title. So BJ and Joe are fighting for the lightweight championship."

I cannot really believe I am having this argument, for real guys check your facts, this discussion has Gotten WAYYYYY off point.


And I agree Randy is the champ until he is stripped. The general consensus is that prior to the December card the UFC will strip him of his title and make Mir and Nog for the undisputed title. If it dosent happen that way, i stand corrected but that is what everyone is saying.

And Jocka: Where did you EVER once state that was your opinion. It was stated as a fact, seriously. Show me where you said it was an opinion and i will show you the value of the imaginary number A.



i agree that we are way off topic but if you want to play on words where did i say that what i was saying was facts??
Diamondback2
8/26/08 9:05:20PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra
then why did the event commercial say interim title?



you must have saw the old commercial.

sherk was stripped on 12/9/08 according to wikipedia. before that, it was for the interm title.


and if i remember right it took a week or two for them to change the commercials.


and jocka ask any english professor

"actually he never defended his title, he won the interim title against stevenson and then got the real tittle against Sherk"

is a statement....

and you went so far as to correct someone. you said it as a fact, you didnt mean in your opinion. it's ok shit happens, i make mistakes too. lets just drop it, this is pointless.

getting back on point i dont think its unfair to florian. a title shot is never OWED to anyone unless they have beat every single other fighter. at least Florian is fighting a top fighter unlike Fitch.

If Florian beats Joe "Daddy" it only further valadates him as a true title contender.

If he loses, he is still only 2 good fights away from a title shot.

When Fitch beat Wilson it really didn't matter, I dont think about anyone figured Wilson could win.

If Fitch would have lost it would have set him back 3-4 fights from a title shot for sure.

Honestly I am finally a Florian fan. I finally started liking him a bit after Lauzon, but when he beat Huerta and then turned around and took the Joe "Daddy" fight like 2 weeks later, HUGE . This is how fighters should be IMO, they should not feel that the Org owes it to them, The "Fine you want me to wait like 6-8 months for a title shot? I'll just fight someone else in the meantime than!" mentality that makes a fighter sweet in my books.
JBatch
8/27/08 12:04:10PM
I love BJ he is charismatic and an amazing fighter but I only got one beef with the guy.

He wasted years of his talent, he will always be the prodigy, with not training, not taking things seriously and not fighting as often as possible.

I think he has now realized that and is trying to make up for lost time. BJ is and will continue to be the best LW fighter in the world for maybe years to come. I do not think however that he will beat GSP. Can't wait to see the betting line on that fight.
jocka
8/27/08 12:14:33PM

Posted by Diamondback2



and jocka ask any english professor

"actually he never defended his title, he won the interim title against stevenson and then got the real tittle against Sherk"

is a statement....

and you went so far as to correct someone. you said it as a fact, you didnt mean in your opinion. it's ok shit happens, i make mistakes too. lets just drop it, this is pointless.



am all for dropping this lol no problems there and by the way english is not my first language so it is a big possiblity that i ll make mistakes
cowcatcher
8/27/08 12:18:52PM
im not trying to add fuel to the argument here, but with all this quoting of wikipedia i have to say something. wikipedias articles are written by anyone and everyone, and often times should be taken with a grain of salt, so anyone that uses wiki as their main source of evidence in an argument doesnt exactly have concrete proof of anything. for 2 months if you wiki'd my name(which a major league ball player shares with me, im older though) it said that i was the greatest man ever created and all kinds of other truths about me, but some clown ended up putting this ballplayers info in there and now my contribution is gone. point is, just about anything can get printed there and it doesnt mean its true......except the parts about me being great
jocka
8/27/08 12:40:35PM

Posted by cowcatcher

im not trying to add fuel to the argument here, but with all this quoting of wikipedia i have to say something. wikipedias articles are written by anyone and everyone, and often times should be taken with a grain of salt, so anyone that uses wiki as their main source of evidence in an argument doesnt exactly have concrete proof of anything. for 2 months if you wiki'd my name(which a major league ball player shares with me, im older though) it said that i was the greatest man ever created and all kinds of other truths about me, but some clown ended up putting this ballplayers info in there and now my contribution is gone. point is, just about anything can get printed there and it doesnt mean its true......except the parts about me being great



I agree with you and i was about to write that but i said i'd drop it lol
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