Disgusted by Dan

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world_mma
7/13/09 5:42:31PM

Posted by D0wnUnd6e6r

IMO if bisping himself didint find anything wrong with it i don't think anyone else should. But again, only my opinion



If he raised even a whimper he would be on a hiding to nothing...
He would be trying to look the bigger man after a humiliating defeat.

I've not seen any word from Bisping. I'm surprised he can talk, even after two days.
jiujitsufreak74
7/13/09 5:48:50PM
I think the major argument here, and the point that i feel both sides are disputing over, is whether or not Dan MEANT to give a cheap shot.

-both sides of this argument can agree that fighters are supposed to keep going until the referee stops them.

-both sides can agree that Henderson did not continue to hit Bisping after the referee stepped in.

with those two conditions, Henderson's actions are NOT similar to Babalu's choke, Soko's strikes, Mike Pyle's kicks or any other fight where the fighter kept hitting his opponent after the referee stepped in.

now the argument here is whether or not Dan made the decision to go out of his way to give Bisping an unnecessary shot after he was already out. the things being disputed are:

-Did Dan know Bisping was out cold after the first punch?
-Did Dan hit Bisping the second time with the intention of giving him a cheap shot?

now in my opinion, Dan did not give Bisping that second shot with the intention of giving him a cheap shot. from my own personal experience, it is almost impossible to know if an opponent is out a second after you connect. if you drop a fighter, you have to swarm them and keep fighting until the referee stops you or you jeopardize your opponent recovering. the comment she made at the end of the fight are the strongest evidence of him delivering a second cheap shot. well, from years of following Dan Henderson and the actual time it takes to perceive an opponent as KOed, i have to say that his comments were made to try to get a rise out of the crowd (as others have suggested), albeit they were made in bad taste. i have to admit i did laugh when he said it, and i did go crazy when he landed that right hand and the forearm, but i don't think he delivered that second blow with the intention of causing unnecessary damage; i feel that he delivered that second blow with the intention of securing a win.
RearNakedJoke
7/13/09 6:41:24PM
he lept into that last punch while bisping was going down. noway for him to have know he was out. you fight until the ref stops it. end of story.



look at guys like yvel and soukedjou if you want to complain about dangerous and irresponsible fighters.
cmill21
7/13/09 7:57:07PM
His hands went up like he was going to protect himself.
Aaronno9
7/13/09 8:57:41PM

Posted by RearNakedJoke

he lept into that last punch while bisping was going down. noway for him to have know he was out. you fight until the ref stops it. end of story.



look at guys like yvel and soukedjou if you want to complain about dangerous and irresponsible fighters.



LOL. That gif is complete B.S - It totally speeds up the time between the first punch, and the follow up. If you watch, even speeded up you can see Dan take about 4 steps after the initial punch, then jumps when Bispings hands are by his sides.
CwB
7/13/09 9:45:14PM

Posted by Aaronno9


Posted by RearNakedJoke

he lept into that last punch while bisping was going down. noway for him to have know he was out. you fight until the ref stops it. end of story.



look at guys like yvel and soukedjou if you want to complain about dangerous and irresponsible fighters.



LOL. That gif is complete B.S - It totally speeds up the time between the first punch, and the follow up. If you watch, even speeded up you can see Dan take about 4 steps after the initial punch, then jumps when Bispings hands are by his sides.



ya but you are talking about a matter of 2-3 seconds at the most between punches

When you spend 4 months training for one moment, when that moment comes to finish the fight, your judgement is not the same as all of ours sitting in front of our tvs
bigbubbano23
7/13/09 10:41:08PM
i just hope bisping now has a permanent lisp, so i can laugh every time he talks crap, no offense to people who have lisps, i will only laugh if bisping has a lisp. not an average person.
cmill21
7/14/09 12:19:22AM

Posted by Aaronno9


Posted by RearNakedJoke

he lept into that last punch while bisping was going down. noway for him to have know he was out. you fight until the ref stops it. end of story.



look at guys like yvel and soukedjou if you want to complain about dangerous and irresponsible fighters.



LOL. That gif is complete B.S - It totally speeds up the time between the first punch, and the follow up. If you watch, even speeded up you can see Dan take about 4 steps after the initial punch, then jumps when Bispings hands are by his sides.



Oh you Brits, his hands briefly went up. On top of that he's fine.
Aaronno9
7/14/09 12:29:48AM

Posted by cmill21


Posted by Aaronno9


Posted by RearNakedJoke

he lept into that last punch while bisping was going down. noway for him to have know he was out. you fight until the ref stops it. end of story.



look at guys like yvel and soukedjou if you want to complain about dangerous and irresponsible fighters.



LOL. That gif is complete B.S - It totally speeds up the time between the first punch, and the follow up. If you watch, even speeded up you can see Dan take about 4 steps after the initial punch, then jumps when Bispings hands are by his sides.



Oh you Brits, his hands briefly went up. On top of that he's fine.



Oh you Canadians. The sky is blue. On top of that, I enjoy orange juice.
RearNakedJoke
7/14/09 12:59:04AM

Could you imagine if Brock did that Mir? People would be screaming all over these forums.


Mir held a leg lock after Lesnar clearly tapped on his ass more than once. no one complained then, except brock. you go until the ref stops you.

i dont hear bisping crying in his tea over it so why are you?
slapshot
7/14/09 1:01:19AM
Ive seen more questionable actions, If anyone is to blame its always the ref because its the ref's job to be in position to stop the fight when it needs to be stopped and clearly he was a bit out of position.
RearNakedJoke
7/14/09 1:02:12AM

His hands went up like he was going to protect himself.


actually it kinda looks like he punched himself in the face. hope he didnt hurt himself.
mkiv9secsupra
7/14/09 1:21:33AM

Posted by RearNakedJoke


His hands went up like he was going to protect himself.


actually it kinda looks like he punched himself in the face. hope he hurt himself miserably .



fixed it for ya'.......

roadking95th
7/14/09 1:23:43AM
Dan knew he was defenseless. He stated it himself. He said to Rogan that Bisping always circles to his right hand and that he was timing it

I would rather be out cold and receive that shot than be conscouis, so in essence, Dan did him a favor by landing the hardest shot when he did.

Besides Bisping even said he has heard about this right hand, but no one's seen it in years..or something to that effect. So therefore it couldn't have been so devastating.

What about submissions? If you know it is locked in and the guy won't tap, do you snap?

I'd be upset too, if I picked Bisping and it cost me a bet and a parlay!

Holy Cow Kpro! What a beat down!

I've defended Bisping's action to many of my friends. I sort of saw him as guy he likes to "needle" a bit. Doesn't mean much harm, but sometimes steps over the line.

Bisping was twitching a little, maybe Dan perceived that as intelligence for Bisping?

Honestly, that logo probably did more damage to Bisping's head than Dan's right hand or forearm.

If one shouldn't hit an opponent who can't intelligently defend himself, than maybe the UFC shouldn't have allowed Bisping to fight Dan.

The preceding comments were made after several beers and 12 hours of work. No offense was meant. But come on...not a darn thing wrong here.


I want to state again, and have it answered: What about submissions? If you know it is locked in and the guy won't tap, do you snap?
Aaronno9
7/14/09 1:35:49AM

Posted by roadking95th



I want to state again, and have it answered: What about submissions? If you know it is locked in and the guy won't tap, do you snap?




I think thats a pretty poor question to ask, in relation to the topic. Somebody who is refusing to tap is completly differant, to somebody whos lying there unconcious.
jiujitsufreak74
7/14/09 1:39:18AM

Posted by Aaronno9


Posted by roadking95th



I want to state again, and have it answered: What about submissions? If you know it is locked in and the guy won't tap, do you snap?




I think thats a pretty poor question to ask, in relation to the topic. Somebody who is refusing to tap is completly differant, to somebody whos lying there unconcious.



agreed. two different worlds really, although the concept of "playing to whistle" is relevant in both. i still feel Dan made his comments as an attempt at a joke. if he never made those comments i feel this thread wouldn't have even been made.
roadking95th
7/14/09 1:44:46AM

Posted by Aaronno9


Posted by roadking95th



I want to state again, and have it answered: What about submissions? If you know it is locked in and the guy won't tap, do you snap?




I think thats a pretty poor question to ask, in relation to the topic. Somebody who is refusing to tap is completly differant, to somebody whos lying there unconcious.





It does go to the point of intentionally harming an opponent. You know it is in, you know it will snap, and he will not tap. Also goes with GnP. Maybe Brock should have stopped. He knew Mir was done. Mir wasn't going to tap. Why inflict more damage?

There is know way, no matter what Dan said in the octagon, that he knew Bisping was definitely out when he started to spring. I like how some will use one quote by Dan and totally disregard his entire career, his personality, and his others comments in regards to the incident.
jiujitsufreak74
7/14/09 1:47:45AM

Posted by roadking95th

It does go to the point of intentionally harming an opponent. You know it is in, you know it will snap, and he will not tap. Also goes with GnP. Maybe Brock should have stopped. He knew Mir was done. Mir wasn't going to tap. Why inflict more damage?



i agree with your comments on Henderson, but the "tap or snap" scenario is different from the extra shot scenario because with tap or snap, the opponent is making a conscious decision to let the submission continue, where as with the extra shot the fighter makes no conscious decision to keep the fight going, in fact, it is quite the opposite lol.
roadking95th
7/14/09 1:54:18AM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by roadking95th

It does go to the point of intentionally harming an opponent. You know it is in, you know it will snap, and he will not tap. Also goes with GnP. Maybe Brock should have stopped. He knew Mir was done. Mir wasn't going to tap. Why inflict more damage?



i agree with your comments on Henderson, but the "tap or snap" scenario is different from the extra shot scenario because with tap or snap, the opponent is making a conscious decision to let the submission continue, where as with the extra shot the fighter makes no conscious decision to keep the fight going, in fact, it is quite the opposite lol.





I'll take your word for it now, since I've been drinking. However, I will revisit this tomorrow at some point.

jeesh, I took me like five takes to type that one line correctly! I fear I am becoming a light weight.
Aaronno9
7/14/09 1:54:55AM

Posted by roadking95th


Posted by Aaronno9


Posted by roadking95th



I want to state again, and have it answered: What about submissions? If you know it is locked in and the guy won't tap, do you snap?




I think thats a pretty poor question to ask, in relation to the topic. Somebody who is refusing to tap is completly differant, to somebody whos lying there unconcious.





It does go to the point of intentionally harming an opponent. You know it is in, you know it will snap, and he will not tap. Also goes with GnP. Maybe Brock should have stopped. He knew Mir was done. Mir wasn't going to tap. Why inflict more damage?

There is know way, no matter what Dan said in the octagon, that he knew Bisping was definitely out when he started to spring. I like how some will use one quote by Dan and totally disregard his entire career, his personality, and his others comments in regards to the incident.



Its still totally differant. The fighter not tapping is making the decision not to do so, knowing full well hes at risk of breaking a bone. An unconcious fighter does not have that decision making ability. I think it looks worse on the fighter refusing to tap, becouse hes forcing his opponent to do something he probably doesnt want to have to do.

I agree with your comments regarding Dan though. His career as a whole overshadows this one incident. Still doesnt change the fact its just as scummy for Henderson to do it (if he did know Bisping was out) as it would be if somebody like Yvel did it.
Schizoidman
7/14/09 3:01:08AM
I don't see why this one is such a bigger deal than what Rampage did to Wanderlei or what Suck-oudjou did to his last opponent. What Dan did happened so fast that he couldn't have known 100% that Bisping was unconscious. He even said that the extra flying forearm wasn't intended for that. I forgot the exact words, but there are several interviews asking him about that. He said he wasn't sure it he was going to recover and it wasn't meant to seriously injure him, but in hindsight it still felt really good. He's kinda got a sense of humor about it. It's one thing to make a mistake in what you say like Dan did when he didn't have the time to fully explain himself, but it's completely different what Rampage did, what Sokoudjou did, and especially what Brock did. What Brock did might be great for exposure and marketing and stuff like that, but it's absolutely horrible for a sport that still seeks legitimacy. EA Sports refused to be a part of the UFC video game claiming that it isn't a real sport. That's got to tell you something. Thanks, Brock, for helping to make it that much harder.
tomp6581
7/14/09 6:44:46AM
I say good on him.

The guy did his talking in the ring, with a big "fcuk you" at the end.

All BEFORE the ref stopped it (unlike babalu)

Maybe he would have held back if Bisping hadn’t talked so much ****, who knows, that is the risk Bisping made.

Also, Hendo look at the 2nd Wanderlei fight, I heard no-one "losing respect" for Hendo then!

People are acting as if this is a new thing, look at Gonzaga's punches on Cro Cop AFTER the kick or Rampages punches on Wanderlei after KO'ing him!!

Did you lose respect for Gonzage, Rampage too?

As a Brit, I do like Bisping but his trash talking and his failure to acknowledge Hammil's performance at UFC 75 are far more "discusting" than what Henderson did in my opinion.




moob
7/14/09 7:32:16AM

Posted by tomp6581

I say good on him.

The guy did his talking in the ring, with a big "fcuk you" at the end.

All BEFORE the ref stopped it (unlike babalu)

Maybe he would have held back if Bisping hadn’t talked so much ****, who knows, that is the risk Bisping made.

Also, Hendo look at the 2nd Wanderlei fight, I heard no-one "losing respect" for Hendo then!

People are acting as if this is a new thing, look at Gonzaga's punches on Cro Cop AFTER the kick or Rampages punches on Wanderlei after KO'ing him!!

Did you lose respect for Gonzage, Rampage too?

As a Brit, I do like Bisping but his trash talking and his failure to acknowledge Hammil's performance at UFC 75 are far more "discusting" than what Henderson did in my opinion.




All of what you've said has been posted and answered before if you'd care to read through.
tomp6581
7/14/09 7:50:48AM

Posted by moob


Posted by tomp6581

I say good on him.

The guy did his talking in the ring, with a big "fcuk you" at the end.

All BEFORE the ref stopped it (unlike babalu)

Maybe he would have held back if Bisping hadn’t talked so much ****, who knows, that is the risk Bisping made.

Also, Hendo look at the 2nd Wanderlei fight, I heard no-one "losing respect" for Hendo then!

People are acting as if this is a new thing, look at Gonzaga's punches on Cro Cop AFTER the kick or Rampages punches on Wanderlei after KO'ing him!!

Did you lose respect for Gonzage, Rampage too?

As a Brit, I do like Bisping but his trash talking and his failure to acknowledge Hammil's performance at UFC 75 are far more "discusting" than what Henderson did in my opinion.




All of what you've said has been posted and answered before if you'd care to read through.



I didnt want to read through. I wanted to voice my opinion.
emfleek
7/14/09 8:46:06AM
I'm pretty sure everything that needs to be said has been said. I'm going to lock this now before it gets too out of hand.
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