The difference between Werdum and Gonzaga.

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AchillesHeel
4/23/07 2:19:09PM
Well... a difference, anyway, in their fights against Arlovski and Cro Cop, respectively:

Werdum wasn't willing to take a hit in exchange for getting the takedown. Gonzaga was.

I doubt even Gonzaga expected to win in the way that he did, but I also doubt he had no plan for Cro Cop. I think his catch of Cro Cop's left kick to the body was planned, mapped out, and practiced, like the 82nd Airborne getting ready to land in Normandy. I bet Gonzaga had a "sand table" of Cro Cop's left kicks, and a southpaw kickboxer with a crew cut and red-and-white checked shorts for a training partner.

Okay... maybe no sand table.

Werdum, on the other hand, looked completely disinterested in even trying to take Arlovski to the mat, unless Arlovski made a mistake or he landed a lucky punch. Like Randy Couture said during Serra-GSP, sometimes you have to risk getting hit to get the takedown. I would go further than that. I think today, you [I[always have to risk getting hit to get the takedown. It's no longer good enough to wait for a kickboxer to throw a long punch or kick and expose himself (Cheick Kongo being the exception, I guess ).

To paraphrase Emilio Estevez, "Two hits: You hitting me; you hitting the floor."
Mastodon2
4/23/07 2:25:59PM
Unfortunately for Cro Cop, Gaybriels plan worked better than the Normandy landings, which were, until the allies pulled it out of the fire, a bit of a disaster.

Hopefully Cro Cop will give the guy a brain hemmorage in the rematch.
TheArtOfWar
4/23/07 2:39:07PM

Posted by AchillesHeel

Well... a difference, anyway, in their fights against Arlovski and Cro Cop, respectively:

Werdum wasn't willing to take a hit in exchange for getting the takedown. Gonzaga was.



you're right Gonzaga was not afraid to be hit
and he seemed much more powerful than Werdum, no hesitation...
MMA
4/23/07 2:51:46PM
It is funny how things turn out. Gonzaga's sole loss is to Werdum and he just dominated Cro Cop while Werdum put on a poor performance against Arlovski.
pv3Hpv3p
4/23/07 2:51:47PM

Posted by TheArtOfWar


Posted by AchillesHeel

Well... a difference, anyway, in their fights against Arlovski and Cro Cop, respectively:

Werdum wasn't willing to take a hit in exchange for getting the takedown. Gonzaga was.



you're right Gonzaga was not afraid to be hit
and he seemed much more powerful than Werdum, no hesitation...



While there wasn't much striking exchanged in the GG / CC fight, Gabie looked rather comfortable standing, whereas Werdum, while at least going forward looked pretty sloppy... Arlovski's counters were landing surprisingly quick, and I don't know why he slows on the leg kicks after the first... They seemed to be doing a ass-load of damage...

In all the fight perplexed me... I don't know why AA wouldn't engage a clearly less talented striker after he stuffed the couple TD attempts with ease... And I know that Fabricio didn't have much luck with the TD's but I was surprised he didn't keep at it or try and work from the clinch??? Ahh, well, no offense to Werdum, but I am glad that AA won
kerazzle
4/23/07 3:04:47PM
I hated how werdum was on his back in the first and he was waving arlovski to come into his guard. Ive always hated it when fighters did that. If you want him there get him there rather than making yourself look like a douche.
AchillesHeel
4/23/07 3:15:59PM

Posted by kerazzle

I hated how werdum was on his back in the first and he was waving arlovski to come into his guard. Ive always hated it when fighters did that. If you want him there get him there rather than making yourself look like a douche.


Exactly. It was clear that Werdum wanted the fight on the mat, but he was unwilling to do what it took to get it there. He was simply waiting for Arlovski to make a mistake. I said before the fight that Arlovski would have to be a moron to challenge Werdum to a grappling match. Arlovski's 1st round is what a good striker does against an aggressive grappler. Once he realized Werdum wasn't going to come after him, he decided "screw it, I'm not sticking my neck out anymore."

Grapplers have a disadvantage (against strikers) that will never, ever go away: Every fight starts on its feet. Anyone who can't adjust to that won't get far.

Opposite side of the same coin: During the Kongo-Silva square dance, Joe Rogan was talking about how some kick-boxers never develop takedown defense because they don't like getting taken down, so they never practice it.

Arlovski did to Werdum what Jake O'Brien did to Heath Herring. To Werdum's credit, he didn't whine about it afterwards like Herring did.
nubby
4/23/07 3:24:41PM

Posted by AchillesHeel

Well... a difference, anyway, in their fights against Arlovski and Cro Cop, respectively:

Werdum wasn't willing to take a hit in exchange for getting the takedown. Gonzaga was.

I doubt even Gonzaga expected to win in the way that he did, but I also doubt he had no plan for Cro Cop. I think his catch of Cro Cop's left kick to the body was planned, mapped out, and practiced, like the 82nd Airborne getting ready to land in Normandy. I bet Gonzaga had a "sand table" of Cro Cop's left kicks, and a southpaw kickboxer with a crew cut and red-and-white checked shorts for a training partner.

Okay... maybe no sand table.

Werdum, on the other hand, looked completely disinterested in even trying to take Arlovski to the mat, unless Arlovski made a mistake or he landed a lucky punch. Like Randy Couture said during Serra-GSP, sometimes you have to risk getting hit to get the takedown. I would go further than that. I think today, you [I[always
have to risk getting hit to get the takedown. It's no longer good enough to wait for a kickboxer to throw a long punch or kick and expose himself (Cheick Kongo being the exception, I guess ).

To paraphrase Emilio Estevez, "Two hits: You hitting me; you hitting the floor."

If you're gonna quote Breakfast Club, can you please quote it correctly?
"Just me. Just you and me. Two hits. Me hitting you. You hitting the floor. Anytime you're ready, pal."
AchillesHeel
4/23/07 3:33:39PM

Posted by nubby


Posted by AchillesHeel

To paraphrase Emilio Estevez, "Two hits: You hitting me; you hitting the floor."


If you're gonna quote Breakfast Club, can you please quote it correctly?
"Just me. Just you and me. Two hits. Me hitting you. You hitting the floor. Anytime you're ready, pal."


But I wasn't quoting. That's why I called it a paraphrase (for lack of a better term - it wasn't exactly a paraphrase, either, but whatev).

I'm glad you liked the movie, though.
Kastro
4/23/07 3:42:34PM

Posted by Mastodon2

Unfortunately for Cro Cop, Gaybriels plan worked better than the Normandy landings, which were, until the allies pulled it out of the fire, a bit of a disaster.

Hopefully Cro Cop will give the guy a brain hemmorage in the rematch.



Yah thats what im saying, I really want to see a rematch..

Gonzaga beat him decisively, but we will never know if he is truely the better fighter until they meet again, CC has 4 fights left and I think Gonzaga is going to beat Couture so im confident CC and Gonzaga will meet again with the title on the line - and Cro Cop will be aware of Gonzaga's strengths and will definitely be better prepared.

CC to the end!!
Sopena66669
4/24/07 12:14:44AM
I couldnt have said it better myself!
JunCTion
4/24/07 12:22:08AM

Posted by MMA

It is funny how things turn out. Gonzaga's sole loss is to Werdum and he just dominated Cro Cop while Werdum put on a poor performance against Arlovski.



yeah, but AA also put on a poor performance after the 1st round. so that didnt help the fight either.
AchillesHeel
4/24/07 2:13:31PM
Oh, and what the heck was up with Werdum's open-handed strikes? There's a funny .gif floating around the web of Werdum literally slapping Arlovski upside the head.

What I haven't seen mentioned, though, is that Werdum was throwing those all through the fight; the .gif just happens to be the one of them that connected cleanly (good thing for Arlovski it wasn't a real punch).

I noticed them during the fight and, at first, I thought Werdum was keeping his hands open to try and grab Arlovski - maybe by his wrist, if he put his hands up to block the strike. I'm at a loss to explain them.
Tons33
7/29/07 4:53:25PM

Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by nubby


Posted by AchillesHeel

To paraphrase Emilio Estevez, "Two hits: You hitting me; you hitting the floor."


If you're gonna quote Breakfast Club, can you please quote it correctly?
"Just me. Just you and me. Two hits. Me hitting you. You hitting the floor. Anytime you're ready, pal."


But I wasn't quoting. That's why I called it a paraphrase (for lack of a better term - it wasn't exactly a paraphrase, either, but whatev).

I'm glad you liked the movie, though.




Who would have thought a bunch of MMA fans would be quoting the breakfast club.
jomatty
7/30/07 3:31:52AM
i like werdum a lot, as i like to support all the guys who are tops in their disciplines . that said, he needs to get over the thinking that someone has to go to the ground as much as someone has to stand up. ive seen him in pride fights where he is waved up by his opponent and he shakes his head and waves him into his guard. obviously then the opponent walks away and the ref makes him stand up as he looks disgusted. in a perfect world of untimed fights i can see his point. unfortunately the way mma is today you have to stand em up or there would be 15 minutes of leg kicking as someone scooted around on their butt.

hopefully he figures it out because he could be an absolutely top hw imo
cmill21
7/30/07 4:09:06AM
I would like to see him make strides to improve his striking. I don't think he's been to into that, He may have a problem with being hit, but you'd think since he's helping Mirko with the ground game Mirko would give him some striking tips.
cowcatcher
7/30/07 5:32:35PM

Posted by AchillesHeel

Oh, and what the heck was up with Werdum's open-handed strikes? There's a funny .gif floating around the web of Werdum literally slapping Arlovski upside the head.

What I haven't seen mentioned, though, is that Werdum was throwing those all through the fight; the .gif just happens to be the one of them that connected cleanly (good thing for Arlovski it wasn't a real punch).

I noticed them during the fight and, at first, I thought Werdum was keeping his hands open to try and grab Arlovski - maybe by his wrist, if he put his hands up to block the strike. I'm at a loss to explain them.



he thought it was pancrase i guess, i was going to bring the open hands up myself, wtf????
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