The difference between nationalism and patriotism

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infestructure
7/2/12 3:37:10AM
Ok, with all the anti-american/brazilian shit going on, I thought I'd post this...

Nationalism vs Patriotism

Nationalism and patriotism both show the relationship of an individual towards his or her nation. The two are often confused and frequently believed to mean the same thing. However, there is a vast difference between nationalism and patriotism.

Nationalism means to give more importance to unity by way of a cultural background, including language and heritage. Patriotism pertains to the love for a nation, with more emphasis on values and beliefs.

When talking about nationalism and patriotism, one cannot avoid the famous quotation by George Orwell, who said that nationalism is ‘the worst enemy of peace’. According to him, nationalism is a feeling that one’s country is superior to another in all respects, while patriotism is merely a feeling of admiration for a way of life. These concepts show that patriotism is passive by nature and nationalism can be a little aggressive.

Patriotism is based on affection and nationalism is rooted in rivalry and resentment. One can say that nationalism is militant by nature and patriotism is based on peace.

Most nationalists assume that their country is better than any other, whereas patriots believe that their country is one of the best and can be improved in many ways. Patriots tend to believe in friendly relations with other countries while some nationalists don’t.

In patriotism, people all over the world are considered equal but nationalism implies that only the people belonging to one’s own country should be considered one’s equal.

A patriotic person tends to tolerate criticism and tries to learn something new from it, but a nationalist cannot tolerate any criticism and considers it an insult.

Nationalism makes one to think only of one’s country’s virtues and not its deficiencies. Nationalism can also make one contemptuous of the virtues of other nations. Patriotism, on the other hand, pertains to value responsibilities rather than just valuing loyalty towards one’s own country.

Nationalism makes one try to find justification for mistakes made in the past, while patriotism enables people to understand both the shortcomings and improvements made.

Summary:

Patriot: Expresses the emotion of love towards his country in a passive way

Nationalist: Strives for independence and the interests and domination of a nation and expresses his love or concern for the country in an active political way.

...Basically just show some more respect, all this shit between Sonnen and Anderson is giving MMA a bad name.

Edit: this is a copy and paste, some of which I don't quite agree with, but the main gist is what i'm trying to convey. Acceptance.
Pookie
7/2/12 4:24:48AM
Your nationalism can mean my patriotism, and vice versa.

It's completely arguable that someone's nationalism can be born out of affection of one's cultural background, language, and heritage. And also that ones patriotism can be born out of a sense of superiority and rivalry.

The USA's own foreign policy's have been militant by nature, under the guise of patriotism. And criticism is(was) often met with aggressiveness and percieved as insulting/unloyal. On the other hand, plenty of people have had a strong sense of nationalism without looking to impose their beliefs on others, and are capable of accepting criticism.

I get your overall point, but i think this is argued weird. Words mean exactly what the user intends them to mean. Everything that can be said of Patriotism can be said about Nationalism, and ultimately this debate boils down to a game of semantics. And since both are concepts, without any empirical data to fall back onto for reference, it really is just a subjective evaluation that establishes the distinction between the two.

infestructure
7/2/12 5:25:28AM
I agree, semantics at the end of the day, but there is both a good and evil side to nationalism/patriotism/whatever you choose to call it. Sonnen has chosen to embrace the evil side with his showboating.

America does not need any more enemies.
Chael_Sonnen
7/2/12 9:49:34AM

Posted by infestructure

I agree, semantics at the end of the day, but there is both a good and evil side to nationalism/patriotism/whatever you choose to call it. Sonnen has chosen to embrace the evil side with his showboating.

America does not need any more enemies.



Don't worry about America unless you are from there....worry about your Lord of the Rings nation in New Zealand....I hope Frodo is okay.

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pmoney
7/2/12 2:43:15PM
Definitely an interesting topic. Nationalism and patriotism are big parts of sports, and MMA is no different. I don't know if Chael is doing a disservice to his country though. I don't know if he could, with the USA being as hated worldwide as we already are.

I've said it before though, pretty much all MMA fans should be ashamed of themselves, especially from Brazil, the USA and Canada. There is so much disrespect shown in MMA events by fans it is disgusting. It seems the Japanese fans are the only ones who show respect for the sport itself, not just which fighter is from their country.
frizzzlecake
7/2/12 3:41:02PM
Chael Loves America, but his love for America isn't the reason he "bashes Brazil." He did it to play mind games and sell tickets. He did both. If Chael really wanted to bash Brazil he would talk about all the senseless deaths/drugs/poverty levels/unemployment. Brazil is getting better, but still doesn't excuse the facts.

At least that's how i look at it.


Edit:
I also don't understand when people chant USA it's ignorant and shameful, but when other countries chant National chant's it's cool?

Like Americans shouldn't root for countrymen, but other countries should?
Chael_Sonnen
7/2/12 3:46:57PM

Posted by frizzzlecake

Chael Loves America, but his love for America isn't the reason he "bashes Brazil." He did it to play mind games and sell tickets. He did both. If Chael really wanted to bash Brazil he would talk about all the senseless deaths/drugs/poverty levels/unemployment. Brazil is getting better, but still doesn't excuse the facts.

At least that's how i look at it.


Edit:
I also don't understand when people chant USA it's ignorant and shameful, but when other countries chant National chant's it's cool?

Like Americans shouldn't root for countrymen, but other countries should?



What 'bout your gonna die from the Brazilian faithful? Nice, huh.

Rumor has it, the CHAELzilian faithful that will be traveling over from Brazil will be cheering a custom made chant, apparently, it's Anti-An-der-son........cool.

Now that's patriotism at it's finest.
Poor_Franklin
7/2/12 4:01:54PM
i hate going to mma fights & the crowd chanting U-S-A bc an American fighter is fighting a Brazilian or Canadian fighter. Maybe im just from a different mold, but I have a hard time rooting for a fighter bc they are American. I need a little bit more than that.

frizzzlecake
7/2/12 4:04:44PM
I don't like to think about that card, I was behind Mendes 100% and the way Aldo won rubbed me the wrong way.
I think we all got robbed in that Mendes fight. Aldo grabbed the fence three times in a round, one being a slam! Mendes should have gotten full guard for Aldo doing that.

Back on topic, The chant just showed the intelligence level of that crowd, there's 1000s of respectful chants you could speak, but they choose to point out the obvious. If I came out to your gunna die! I would laugh and say guess what you will too! haha Then they something like WHERES YOUR GOD NOW?!?!?
ghandikush
7/2/12 4:14:49PM
Agreed, nationalism patriotism same. We call it the same thing so people can take pride in their nationalist attitude. I mean we worship the military......

We are red meat and potatoes elitists. We crack on every other country when realistically we have a powerful army and thats about it that blows every other 1st world nation out of the water.

We are no humble and we do not respect a single thing.
Poor_Franklin
7/2/12 4:17:32PM
when i see 2 dude's fighting & i yell to one of them that he is going to die, i dont mean it literally. it just means theyre going to get their face smashed in. not all translations are meant to be taken literally.

can you imagine a foreigner coming to america for 1st time & hearing us say "we're going out & getting fucked up tonight!" ?
kopower
7/2/12 5:28:35PM

Posted by Poor_Franklin

i hate going to mma fights & the crowd chanting U-S-A bc an American fighter is fighting a Brazilian or Canadian fighter. Maybe im just from a different mold, but I have a hard time rooting for a fighter bc they are American. I need a little bit more than that.




You're not the only one. I get a little embarrassed when that happens.
Playground_Samurai
7/2/12 5:34:42PM

Posted by kopower


Posted by Poor_Franklin

i hate going to mma fights & the crowd chanting U-S-A bc an American fighter is fighting a Brazilian or Canadian fighter. Maybe im just from a different mold, but I have a hard time rooting for a fighter bc they are American. I need a little bit more than that.




You're not the only one. I get a little embarrassed when that happens.






MALICE
7/2/12 5:36:36PM
My support list in order:

1. Family
2. Friends
3. Town
4. State
5. Country
6. Planet
7. Solar System
8. Galaxy

There are obvious exceptions. I do not share the exact same beliefs with all groups listed. There are always going to be differences of opinion, conflicts, etc., but there will always be a greater threat which will require unity or the result will be failure. Countries are still at war, but soon they will need to realize there are larger threats. We are the largest threat right now; slowly using the earth's resources and causing an inevitable global catastrophe. Some day, long after we are gone, there may be threats to the entire solar system, or even the entire galaxy, and if there are still divided civilizations, our insignificant little earthly problems won't seem so important.
MALICE
7/2/12 5:45:31PM
I have some questions relating to nationalism and patriotism. The summer Olympics are coming up. What is the purpose of the Olympics? Who do you cheer for and why?
frizzzlecake
7/2/12 5:50:47PM
For America to get medals...What a silly question!

Also I don't chant USA during MMA or root for a guy because of country. But if someone want's to cheer for someone because there American then good for them, I don't think they should be ridiculed for it. Just like how Brazilians cheer for Brazilians because there Brazilians.

It really pisses me off when I hear oh look how the Brazil crowd is so loud and so into these fights. Then in America, the U-S-A chant rolls out, listen to those Rednecks. (Vaguely remember Rogan saying something along those lines. So which is it Rogan are Brazilian equivalent to Rednecks, or pride in country?

How is one okay and not the other? Should we really pass judgement on one another because who/he chooses to cheer for?(Unless of course it's a fighter you don't like, that's why we got the internet.)

/rant.
ghandikush
7/2/12 5:54:54PM

Posted by MALICE

I have some questions relating to nationalism and patriotism. The summer Olympics are coming up. What is the purpose of the Olympics? Who do you cheer for and why?



To build nationalism. Its an ego trip pissing contest. It brings noone together to have a bunch of athletes taking designer performance enhancers in a fight for a gold star.

I used to cheer for america but not anymore, it doesnt mean a damn thing that america and china dominate, it means quite a bit more that we use a world platform to put all the lesser countries in their place as a social status tool.
infestructure
7/2/12 5:58:42PM

Posted by Chael_Sonnen


Posted by infestructure

I agree, semantics at the end of the day, but there is both a good and evil side to nationalism/patriotism/whatever you choose to call it. Sonnen has chosen to embrace the evil side with his showboating.

America does not need any more enemies.



Don't worry about America unless you are from there....worry about your Lord of the Rings nation in New Zealand....I hope Frodo is okay.




Me, my father and my grandfather are all american as they come. My grandfather was the youngest full-bird colonel in the US army. Just because I don't live in the states it does not exclude me from being american.

And btw Frodo is not ok, He's getting all kinds of fucked up on hobbit weed with Gandalf in my basement.

Humanity needs a common enemy to rid us of the shackles of nationalism, if our planet were invaded, Independence Day style, we would drop that petty crap pretty fast and all become citizens of Earth.

Unfortunately, if there are any aliens out there, they probably give us a wide berth at the moment, due to our uncivilised warlike nature.
MALICE
7/2/12 6:00:50PM

Posted by ghandikush

To build nationalism. Its an ego trip pissing contest. It brings noone together to have a bunch of athletes taking designer performance enhancers in a fight for a gold star.

I used to cheer for america but not anymore, it doesnt mean a damn thing that america and china dominate, it means quite a bit more that we use a world platform to put all the lesser countries in their place as a social status tool.



Thank you, Mr. GlassHalfEmpty.

You're right. If I remember correctly, it was the ancient US/China pissing contest agreement that started the Olympics. Anyone else?
ghandikush
7/2/12 6:06:07PM

Posted by MALICE


Posted by ghandikush

To build nationalism. Its an ego trip pissing contest. It brings noone together to have a bunch of athletes taking designer performance enhancers in a fight for a gold star.

I used to cheer for america but not anymore, it doesnt mean a damn thing that america and china dominate, it means quite a bit more that we use a world platform to put all the lesser countries in their place as a social status tool.



Thank you, Mr. GlassHalfEmpty.

You're right. If I remember correctly, it was the ancient US/China pissing contest agreement that started the Olympics. Anyone else?



Glass isnt half empty. And it doesnt matter if it was unanimous agreement or not really, its just a pissing contest. But no youre right, America fuck yeah, thats where I live at! until I move...

warglory
7/2/12 6:16:54PM
Well there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism, but the way the OP describes it is inaccurate.

Patriotism is specifically an allegiance to independence of one's nation. Specifically for America, patriots were the rebels who sought to overthrow the British and establish an independent nation. Patriots are not typically "peaceful" by any means. One of the first patriotic organization were the Sons of Liberty, which often employed violence to spread their message. Patriotism I believe, applies more towards those nations would had to fight for independence from a foreign power. There is a sense of pride from a nation who earns their right to sovereignty, and when someone says they are patriotic, that means they respect the efforts of their countrymen who sacrificed in some way, to maintain the independent identity of their nation.

Nationalism on the other hand, is a more over-arching word for pride in one's nation. It doesn't have any more of a specific connotation than that, since the concept of nationalism can range from pride in being isolationists and non-violent, to that of jingoism.
MALICE
7/2/12 6:28:03PM

Posted by ghandikush

Glass isnt half empty. And it doesnt matter if it was unanimous agreement or not really, its just a pissing contest. But no youre right, America fuck yeah, thats where I live at! until I move...




Now there's the spirit. I guess I'll give you the answer to save you the suspense. The purpose of the Olympics is to promote international cooperation and competition without the need for violence and war. All of the world's countries can participate and be proud.

The coverage is excellent today and interesting back stories are covered on athletes from all countries. It is common to see athletes and citizens from many countries cheering for an athlete, regardless of what country they are from, because of the difficult road they traveled to compete with the world's most elite athletes.

International cooperation, support, and healthy competition, that is the purpose of the Olympics.
Chael_Sonnen
7/2/12 6:39:29PM

Posted by ghandikush


Posted by MALICE


Posted by ghandikush

To build nationalism. Its an ego trip pissing contest. It brings noone together to have a bunch of athletes taking designer performance enhancers in a fight for a gold star.

I used to cheer for america but not anymore, it doesnt mean a damn thing that america and china dominate, it means quite a bit more that we use a world platform to put all the lesser countries in their place as a social status tool.



Thank you, Mr. GlassHalfEmpty.

You're right. If I remember correctly, it was the ancient US/China pissing contest agreement that started the Olympics. Anyone else?



Glass isnt half empty. And it doesnt matter if it was unanimous agreement or not really, its just a pissing contest. But no youre right, America fuck yeah, thats where I live at! until I move...




So move already......take your half glass empty with ya, along with your copy of The Voice of Reason
ghandikush
7/2/12 7:21:29PM

Posted by MALICE


Posted by ghandikush

Glass isnt half empty. And it doesnt matter if it was unanimous agreement or not really, its just a pissing contest. But no youre right, America fuck yeah, thats where I live at! until I move...




Now there's the spirit. I guess I'll give you the answer to save you the suspense. The purpose of the Olympics is to promote international cooperation and competition without the need for violence and war. All of the world's countries can participate and be proud.

The coverage is excellent today and interesting back stories are covered on athletes from all countries. It is common to see athletes and citizens from many countries cheering for an athlete, regardless of what country they are from, because of the difficult road they traveled to compete with the world's most elite athletes.

International cooperation, support, and healthy competition, that is the purpose of the Olympics.



Absolutely, and how often to nations boycott olympic games for political reasons.
MALICE
7/2/12 7:29:14PM

Posted by ghandikush
Absolutely, and how often to nations boycott olympic games for political reasons.



True, there were plenty of boycotts in the past, but they grew fewer and fewer. There has not been a boycott in quite some time. Maybe it is a sign of humans maturing. I'd like to think so. Every year, more people realize there are problems more important than 'who should we fight today?'