The Diaz hype....
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The Diaz hype....
Adrenaline
10/30/11 8:43:31AM
I'm usually not the type to start a thread like this but I hear a lot of people saying that GSP is going to be in "for a fight" against Diaz. Especially after his win over BJ.
Am I alone by completely ignoring this? I cannot believe people are buying this crap, not necessarily on this site, but others . I honestly think that Condit is by far the greatest challenge to GSP at this point. I have been highly critical of St. Pierre over the last few years and don't consider myself a fan at all but I can't see Diaz being any threat to GSP.
BJ Penn is a hero to me but he does not belong at WW. If people think that Nick will be able to do the same thing to GSP, they are sadly mistaken. Nick has great hands and cardio but neither will come into play because GSP is going to put him on his ass and will ride him hard and put him away wet.
I keep hearing these fantasies about Nick getting GSP against the fence and landing his pitter patter strikes until GSP quits but people seem to forget that Nick has not faced a wrestler since he left the UFC in 2006 and for very good reason....he can't beat a strong wrestler with basic sub defense.
I guess my point is that GSP is too big, too fast, and too strong for Diaz. He will take him down and will and will probably out strike him as well enroute to an easy UD. Believe me, I have wanted to see GSP dethroned for a long time, but Diaz is not the guy that will do it. I see GSP man handling him for 5 rounds and Diaz bitching about getting his ass handed to him because GSP did not want to "fight".
I'm just not buying it. There is nothing that Diaz offers that GSP has not seen before. He does not have one strike power, and GSP is not easy by any means to submit. Nick is getting thrown around for 5 rounds and GSP is leaving with the belt. I'm not a hater either, I love Nick's style and enjoy his fights but it is what it is. I also hear people saying that George looked "scared" in the crowd after Diaz called him out and I saw the opposite, I thought GSP looked extremely confident, not for a second did I think he looked nervous and this is coming from a guy that has rooted against GSP for the last 5 years.
Sorry this was so long. Discuss!
Am I alone by completely ignoring this? I cannot believe people are buying this crap, not necessarily on this site, but others . I honestly think that Condit is by far the greatest challenge to GSP at this point. I have been highly critical of St. Pierre over the last few years and don't consider myself a fan at all but I can't see Diaz being any threat to GSP.
BJ Penn is a hero to me but he does not belong at WW. If people think that Nick will be able to do the same thing to GSP, they are sadly mistaken. Nick has great hands and cardio but neither will come into play because GSP is going to put him on his ass and will ride him hard and put him away wet.
I keep hearing these fantasies about Nick getting GSP against the fence and landing his pitter patter strikes until GSP quits but people seem to forget that Nick has not faced a wrestler since he left the UFC in 2006 and for very good reason....he can't beat a strong wrestler with basic sub defense.
I guess my point is that GSP is too big, too fast, and too strong for Diaz. He will take him down and will and will probably out strike him as well enroute to an easy UD. Believe me, I have wanted to see GSP dethroned for a long time, but Diaz is not the guy that will do it. I see GSP man handling him for 5 rounds and Diaz bitching about getting his ass handed to him because GSP did not want to "fight".
I'm just not buying it. There is nothing that Diaz offers that GSP has not seen before. He does not have one strike power, and GSP is not easy by any means to submit. Nick is getting thrown around for 5 rounds and GSP is leaving with the belt. I'm not a hater either, I love Nick's style and enjoy his fights but it is what it is. I also hear people saying that George looked "scared" in the crowd after Diaz called him out and I saw the opposite, I thought GSP looked extremely confident, not for a second did I think he looked nervous and this is coming from a guy that has rooted against GSP for the last 5 years.
Sorry this was so long. Discuss!
Kpro
10/30/11 9:11:34AM
Cardio, striking output, reach and the solid boxing ability to use it, granite chin, smack talking and taunting during the fight. And yes GSP can get flustered. Those will all be different than GSP's previous fights. No one in MMA has cardio like Diaz and no one GSP has faced has striking output or as active a ground game as Diaz. What's the most likely scenario? GSP rides him for a hopefully exciting 25 minutes. Sure, he's a better than 50% chance to win. No arguments from me. But I'd give you 2 to 1 odds that if there's a finish it's Diaz geting his hand raised, not GSP. GSP has to take him down and smother him, and Diaz has to either try to keep it up (doubt he can) or find a way to work his guard against a guy who knowns how to keep someone grounded with not much space to work.
GSP is very good at what he does. He's great at it. Diaz will need to get in his head and throw him off his game because if GSP strays from his cautious approach because he's angry or fighting because of emotion, I do believe he could make multiple mistakes leaving himself vulnerable for split seconds that you wouldn't normally see from him and Diaz will have 25 minutes to capitalize on those situations.
Diaz has been my favorite fighter for almost 8 years and I recognize he's an underdog in the fight, and it's more likely that GSP wins, but anyone who discredits Diaz as if he has no chance I'll immediately assume they have no knowledge of MMA and to be honest I'll lose respect for them.
GSP is very good at what he does. He's great at it. Diaz will need to get in his head and throw him off his game because if GSP strays from his cautious approach because he's angry or fighting because of emotion, I do believe he could make multiple mistakes leaving himself vulnerable for split seconds that you wouldn't normally see from him and Diaz will have 25 minutes to capitalize on those situations.
Diaz has been my favorite fighter for almost 8 years and I recognize he's an underdog in the fight, and it's more likely that GSP wins, but anyone who discredits Diaz as if he has no chance I'll immediately assume they have no knowledge of MMA and to be honest I'll lose respect for them.
prozacnation1978
10/30/11 10:22:03AM
I think GSP will make this a 5 round grappling event
Hats off to BJ
Anyone else think that was fight of the year??
Hats off to BJ
Anyone else think that was fight of the year??
tmas
10/30/11 10:23:55AM
Posted by Kpro
Cardio, striking output, reach and the solid boxing ability to use it, granite chin, smack talking and taunting during the fight. And yes GSP can get flustered. Those will all be different than GSP's previous fights. No one in MMA has cardio like Diaz and no one GSP has faced has striking output or as active a ground game as Diaz. What's the most likely scenario? GSP rides him for a hopefully exciting 25 minutes. Sure, he's a better than 50% chance to win. No arguments from me. But I'd give you 2 to 1 odds that if there's a finish it's Diaz geting his hand raised, not GSP. GSP has to take him down and smother him, and Diaz has to either try to keep it up (doubt he can) or find a way to work his guard against a guy who knowns how to keep someone grounded with not much space to work.
GSP is very good at what he does. He's great at it. Diaz will need to get in his head and throw him off his game because if GSP strays from his cautious approach because he's angry or fighting because of emotion, I do believe he could make multiple mistakes leaving himself vulnerable for split seconds that you wouldn't normally see from him and Diaz will have 25 minutes to capitalize on those situations.
Diaz has been my favorite fighter for almost 8 years and I recognize he's an underdog in the fight, and it's more likely that GSP wins, but anyone who discredits Diaz as if he has no chance I'll immediately assume they have no knowledge of MMA and to be honest I'll lose respect for them.
i agree will lose probably a UD he has nothing GSP doesnt have or seen. Cardio? He has fought guys with cardio and GSP has great cardio.(many examples Fitch for one) Striking output? what is that...(Alves a great striker even Hardy) Reach....well Diaz has a 74 reach, and GSP 76... Granite chin. ok Diaz definatly has GSP beat in that but GSP has faced people with good chins. (for one look to Diaz's friend Jake Sheilds) Taunting and stuff isnt a skill, but its possible for Diaz to fluster up GSP that cant be counted out, but GSP is a champ and he knows what he is doing so chances are its not gonna happen....
there you go Diaz has nothing GSP hasnt seen.....eeh this fight like all GSP fights will suck.
Budgellism
10/30/11 11:08:01AM
Now that Diaz has proven himself over a top contender in the ufc I feel like the GSP vs. Diaz fight will be a lot more interesting than I thought it was before. I can't wait to see this fight now. I'll most likely go with GSP UD but this fight could have a lot of potential.
sbulldavid
10/30/11 12:09:37PM
This is an easy fight for GSP, Diaz has a punchers chance, but most likely he gets taken down over and over again before he gets beat to a stoppage.
Poor_Franklin
10/30/11 12:17:44PM
GSP will rule him, but Nick does have the precision to land one on GSP's so-called glass chin. Don't think GSP will be as eager to stand as BJ was
ncordless
10/30/11 12:47:08PM
Posted by tmas
Posted by Kpro
Cardio, striking output, reach and the solid boxing ability to use it, granite chin, smack talking and taunting during the fight. And yes GSP can get flustered. Those will all be different than GSP's previous fights. No one in MMA has cardio like Diaz and no one GSP has faced has striking output or as active a ground game as Diaz. What's the most likely scenario? GSP rides him for a hopefully exciting 25 minutes. Sure, he's a better than 50% chance to win. No arguments from me. But I'd give you 2 to 1 odds that if there's a finish it's Diaz geting his hand raised, not GSP. GSP has to take him down and smother him, and Diaz has to either try to keep it up (doubt he can) or find a way to work his guard against a guy who knowns how to keep someone grounded with not much space to work.
GSP is very good at what he does. He's great at it. Diaz will need to get in his head and throw him off his game because if GSP strays from his cautious approach because he's angry or fighting because of emotion, I do believe he could make multiple mistakes leaving himself vulnerable for split seconds that you wouldn't normally see from him and Diaz will have 25 minutes to capitalize on those situations.
Diaz has been my favorite fighter for almost 8 years and I recognize he's an underdog in the fight, and it's more likely that GSP wins, but anyone who discredits Diaz as if he has no chance I'll immediately assume they have no knowledge of MMA and to be honest I'll lose respect for them.
i agree will lose probably a UD he has nothing GSP doesnt have or seen. Cardio? He has fought guys with cardio and GSP has great cardio.(many examples Fitch for one) Striking output? what is that...(Alves a great striker even Hardy) Reach....well Diaz has a 74 reach, and GSP 76... Granite chin. ok Diaz definatly has GSP beat in that but GSP has faced people with good chins. (for one look to Diaz's friend Jake Sheilds) Taunting and stuff isnt a skill, but its possible for Diaz to fluster up GSP that cant be counted out, but GSP is a champ and he knows what he is doing so chances are its not gonna happen....
there you go Diaz has nothing GSP hasnt seen.....eeh this fight like all GSP fights will suck.
GSP has fought guys with cardio. . . but Diaz's cardio is a step above. Diaz competes in triathalons.
GSP has fought good strikers, but nobody with the output of Diaz. Diaz set the fightmetric record for strikes landed in a 3 round fight last night. He throws lots of volume, and has a style GSP has never faced before.
I favor GSP in the fight, but I think the style of Diaz is interesting because it is literally the opposite of GSP's. It will all come down to who can make the fight the one they want to fight.
FastKnockout
10/30/11 1:15:16PM
Diaz is resilient, I'll give him that. But if the Diaz who fought Penn last night shows up to fight St. Pierre, then it won't be much of a challenge for the champ. St. Pierre isn't just going to stand around with his back to the fence and let Diaz use him as a punching bag, and he won't gas out after the first round. Add in St. Pierre's wrestling and I don't give Diaz much of a chance.
Diaz vs. St. Pierre - Don't give Diaz much of a chance at winning.
Diaz vs. WW division - Whole different story. Diaz has the chance to demolish anyone in the division not named St. Pierre. Might have some issues with Fitch.
Diaz vs. St. Pierre - Don't give Diaz much of a chance at winning.
Diaz vs. WW division - Whole different story. Diaz has the chance to demolish anyone in the division not named St. Pierre. Might have some issues with Fitch.
Chael_Sonnen
10/30/11 1:59:51PM
"Business as usual" victory for GSP.
Kpro
10/30/11 2:05:42PM
Posted by tmas
well Diaz has a 74 reach, and GSP 76...
Since nothing else you said is worth responding to as it was covered, GSP's reach was 74 at UFC 56, up to 78 at UFC 65, back to 74 at UFC 74, up to 76 at UFC 83, etc.
As reach measurements are anything but exact, I know what my eyes show me, and from armpit to knuckles, Diaz has the reach advantage.
Chael_Sonnen
10/30/11 2:21:35PM
Posted by Kpro
Posted by tmas
well Diaz has a 74 reach, and GSP 76...
Since nothing else you said is worth responding to as it was covered, GSP's reach was 74 at UFC 56, up to 78 at UFC 65, back to 74 at UFC 74, up to 76 at UFC 83, etc.
As reach measurements are anything but exact, I know what my eyes show me, and from armpit to knuckles, Diaz has the reach advantage.
Nick's reach can't help him when Mr. GSP is GNP'ing him for 5 rounds.
Kpro
10/30/11 2:23:11PM
Posted by Chael_Sonnen
"Business as usual" victory for GSP.
Posted by Chael_Sonnen
Nick's reach can't help him when Mr. GSP is GNP'ing him for 5 rounds.
prophecy033
10/30/11 3:16:32PM
Diaz could make it interesting on the feet but he's never fought a guy that's as good as GSP is a taking a gangster to the ground and beating on him for 5 rounds. GSP isn't Paul Daley in there nor is he BJ, and Diaz will find that out.
I don't think Condit or Diaz will be strong enough to stop the Train that is GSP. He is another bread of athlete. He's not gonna stand up with Diaz if he's losing the fight there and IMO Diaz won't be able to stop GSP when he grabs a leg and drives forward.
Like always GSP UD. Just give me my 11 pts now
I don't think Condit or Diaz will be strong enough to stop the Train that is GSP. He is another bread of athlete. He's not gonna stand up with Diaz if he's losing the fight there and IMO Diaz won't be able to stop GSP when he grabs a leg and drives forward.
Like always GSP UD. Just give me my 11 pts now
Chael_Sonnen
10/30/11 4:02:50PM
Posted by Kpro
Posted by Chael_Sonnen
"Business as usual" victory for GSP.
Posted by Chael_Sonnen
Nick's reach can't help him when Mr. GSP is GNP'ing him for 5 rounds.
Adrenaline
10/30/11 8:31:23PM
Posted by Kpro
Cardio, striking output, reach and the solid boxing ability to use it, granite chin, smack talking and taunting during the fight. And yes GSP can get flustered. Those will all be different than GSP's previous fights. No one in MMA has cardio like Diaz and no one GSP has faced has striking output or as active a ground game as Diaz. What's the most likely scenario? GSP rides him for a hopefully exciting 25 minutes. Sure, he's a better than 50% chance to win. No arguments from me. But I'd give you 2 to 1 odds that if there's a finish it's Diaz geting his hand raised, not GSP. GSP has to take him down and smother him, and Diaz has to either try to keep it up (doubt he can) or find a way to work his guard against a guy who knowns how to keep someone grounded with not much space to work.
GSP is very good at what he does. He's great at it. Diaz will need to get in his head and throw him off his game because if GSP strays from his cautious approach because he's angry or fighting because of emotion, I do believe he could make multiple mistakes leaving himself vulnerable for split seconds that you wouldn't normally see from him and Diaz will have 25 minutes to capitalize on those situations.
Diaz has been my favorite fighter for almost 8 years and I recognize he's an underdog in the fight, and it's more likely that GSP wins, but anyone who discredits Diaz as if he has no chance I'll immediately assume they have no knowledge of MMA and to be honest I'll lose respect for them.
Great response Kpro but I hope that last part was not aimed at me. It would be foolish to say that anyone in any given fight had no chance of winning, especially in MMA. In such a dynamic sport, the "anything can happen" factor is always a given.
I didn't mean to imply that Diaz had no chance of winning, although I see his chances as very limited. When I wrote that I could not imagine anything but Diaz being dumped on his back repeatedly, losing a clear cut decision and then getting pissed off because GSP didn't stand in front of him like everyone does.
I give Nick one solid chance to beat GSP. It sounds incredibly simple but he needs to hit GSP often and if he does have him hurt he has to go for broke and use those volume punches that you mentioned. I didn't mean any disrespect by calling them "pitter patter" because they are effective strikes but the tactic is only effective with guys that stand in front of him and are content to stay in the pocket. trading punch for punch. Unfortunately I don't see this happening, Nick never uses his range, he gets in the pocket and throws. If he gets that close to George he is getting put on his back at will.
I don't see Diaz submitting George and I don't see Nicks insane cardio being the factor that everyone seems to think it will be. If anyone at WW can match Nick's cardio (in a fight, I'm well aware that Nick is a top notch endurance athlete) it is GSP. Nick may very well have the better cardio on paper but he does not have the physical strength nor TDD to be able to use it effectively. George has crazy cardio himself and has the huge advantage of being able to decide where a fight takes place. There is no doubt that George will have to constantly work to control Diaz but he will control him and keep top position if he wants it.
Again, I want to make this very clear: I really hope Nick, or anyone for that matter can beat GSP. Not that I hate GSP or anything but I think a shake up would be great for the division and GSP himself. I'm not trying to say this is how it is going down and there is no other option. If Nick beats GSP I will happily say that I was wrong, this is not a thread to say "hey all of you guys are stupid". That came off wrong because I was still amped up from the fights and had just got done reading a thread on another site where the people actually were crazy and saying that George was afraid of Diaz, that he faked the injury, that Nick was going to walk all over him etc... that was the "crap" that I was referring to I respect anyone that thinks Nick will win, because he very well could. I was just annoyed by the fanatical ones that were spewing complete garbage.
Pookie
10/30/11 8:40:03PM
Georges shoulders are way broader, so that factors into his reach. Georges does maximize his reach advantage well usually.
Diaz has longer arms, but the shorter reach overall.
Diaz has longer arms, but the shorter reach overall.
Geoffo
10/30/11 8:42:54PM
Don't think Nick can knock out GSP.
I can see a TKO happening from the sheer number of punches Nick throws.
But GSP is smarter than that, he flipped out last night but it'll be a good fight. GSP by TKO ground n pound.
I can see a TKO happening from the sheer number of punches Nick throws.
But GSP is smarter than that, he flipped out last night but it'll be a good fight. GSP by TKO ground n pound.
Kpro
10/30/11 9:30:46PM
Posted by Adrenaline
Great response Kpro but I hope that last part was not aimed at me. It would be foolish to say that anyone in any given fight had no chance of winning, especially in MMA. In such a dynamic sport, the "anything can happen" factor is always a given.
Nope, wasn't aimed at you at all. I, like you, have seen posters on this and other boards say Diaz has zero chance and it was directed towards the MMA infants that don't understand anything can happen.
If someone feels GSP wins 9 out of 10? Ok, their opinion and I'd love to wager with them. 99 out of 100? That's their perogative no matter how warped and I'd really love to wager with them. But if they say Diaz has zero chance they're either trolling or someone I will skip past their posts in the future. Sorry if you thought it was directed towards you
Kpro
10/30/11 9:35:57PM
Posted by Pookie
Georges shoulders are way broader, so that factors into his reach. Georges does maximize his reach advantage well usually.
Diaz has longer arms, but the shorter wingspan overall.
Fixed.
Which is an entirely different topic as to why the UFC doesn't use armpit to knuckles. I'll never get it. Brock Lesnar has measured at 81" and Stefan Struve at 84"; again their measurements vary by fight somehow. Why they factor a back into the reach is beyond me, and I'm pretty sure the UFC measures fingertip to fingertip so it's a "wingspan" measurement, not a "reach" measurement. No one thinks Brock has a similar reach as Struve, but if you measure across the back, sure it'll look that way. Armpit to knuckle should be the standard as most of boxing has already correctly made the switch. UFC is dragging their knuckles on this one.
tcunningham
10/30/11 11:47:47PM
i also agree that diaz's hype is ridiculous. he beat BJ, but BJ is in the wrong division and is not the WW champ. I suspect diaz to get owned by GSP just like the last several opponents. GSP by UD.......again.
Bowen50
11/1/11 7:36:13PM
Posted by Adrenaline
I'm usually not the type to start a thread like this but I hear a lot of people saying that GSP is going to be in "for a fight" against Diaz. Especially after his win over BJ.
Am I alone by completely ignoring this? I cannot believe people are buying this crap, not necessarily on this site, but others . I honestly think that Condit is by far the greatest challenge to GSP at this point. I have been highly critical of St. Pierre over the last few years and don't consider myself a fan at all but I can't see Diaz being any threat to GSP.
BJ Penn is a hero to me but he does not belong at WW. If people think that Nick will be able to do the same thing to GSP, they are sadly mistaken. Nick has great hands and cardio but neither will come into play because GSP is going to put him on his ass and will ride him hard and put him away wet.
I keep hearing these fantasies about Nick getting GSP against the fence and landing his pitter patter strikes until GSP quits but people seem to forget that Nick has not faced a wrestler since he left the UFC in 2006 and for very good reason....he can't beat a strong wrestler with basic sub defense.
I guess my point is that GSP is too big, too fast, and too strong for Diaz. He will take him down and will and will probably out strike him as well enroute to an easy UD. Believe me, I have wanted to see GSP dethroned for a long time, but Diaz is not the guy that will do it. I see GSP man handling him for 5 rounds and Diaz bitching about getting his ass handed to him because GSP did not want to "fight".
I'm just not buying it. There is nothing that Diaz offers that GSP has not seen before. He does not have one strike power, and GSP is not easy by any means to submit. Nick is getting thrown around for 5 rounds and GSP is leaving with the belt. I'm not a hater either, I love Nick's style and enjoy his fights but it is what it is. I also hear people saying that George looked "scared" in the crowd after Diaz called him out and I saw the opposite, I thought GSP looked extremely confident, not for a second did I think he looked nervous and this is coming from a guy that has rooted against GSP for the last 5 years.
Sorry this was so long. Discuss!
i've been very quiet on these forums for a long time now but this topic has left me with a lot of things to say.
BJ Penn is one of the greatest fighters to ever walk the planet Earth. To say something like "he doesn't belong at WW" doesn't make sense to me when he has won a belt in that division. Not to mention, before his fight with Diaz, he had never lost a fight to someone that didn't hold a UFC title at some point in their career.
Who's to say Nick can't do the same thing to GSP? GSP's cardio is no joke but Diaz has without a doubt in my mind the best cardio the sport has EVER seen. He runs triathlons when he's bored. Granted, like you said, he has a history of losing to wrestlers but watch those fights over again. None of those losses were 30-27 on the scorecards if I'm not mistaken and a few should have gone the other way (personal opinion). That was back in 2006. Diaz's all around grappling game has improved leaps and bounds since then. I'm not about to suggest Diaz is going to stifle GSP's takedowns but I'm 100% positive Diaz is going to make GSP feel extremely uncomfortable when he's on top by threatening with sweeps and submissions very regularly. If he successfully does this and gets the fight standing I'm very confident he can really bust GSP up on the feet by pushing a really hard pace like he did against BJ into the championship rounds.
I promise you if Diaz can make GSP feel uncomfortable on top he will be the next WW champion. There's not 1 person at 170 pounds that can keep up with his pace on the feet. I have personally been very critical of Diaz in the past but as of late he has looked incredible. To refer to a realization that someone has an incredible amount of skill as "hype", simply write them off, and essentially say "this is the way this fight is going to happen and that's that" when he most certainly has the tools to win shows me you're very new to this sport and read a lot of the history on wikipedia. Like it or not Diaz is a very scary fight for GSP and everyone else in that division. I have a feeling come February no one will be using the name Diaz and the word "hype" in the same sentence.
KungFuMaster
11/2/11 12:41:29PM
I don't want to enter this debate because I already know in my mind who is going to win. 
What I want to do is clear up some things about the cardio issue between GSP and Diaz.
GSP, Edgar, and Diaz all have amazing conditioning. Which conditioning of the three fighters is best for mma? I would have to say Edgar, then GSP, and then Diaz.
Between GSP and Diaz, GSP will be able to fight more effectively in an mma match because fighting requires a certain amount of strength which is different from idling your hear rate while jogging, biking, or swimming.
Endurance athletes can idle their heart rate and breathing for long periods of time but only on a low output. MMA requires frequent bursts of energy during exchanges, clinches, and scrambles.
I am no physical fitness expert but it is my opinion GSP's cardio is better suited for mma. The only way Diaz's cardio will become a significant factor against GSP is for the fight to go into the 7th or 8th round. I say this because GSP's cardio is amazing and a 5 round fight is nothing for him. If Diaz was fighting average cardio-Joes, then it would only need to go into the second or third round before Diaz's cardio becomes a significant factor.
Summary for clarification: In a 10 round fight against GSP, I could easily see Diaz's cardio becoming a significant factor for winning the fight - but in a 5 round fight against GSP, Diaz's cardio will not become significant enough to make a difference in the fight.
What I want to do is clear up some things about the cardio issue between GSP and Diaz.GSP, Edgar, and Diaz all have amazing conditioning. Which conditioning of the three fighters is best for mma? I would have to say Edgar, then GSP, and then Diaz.
Between GSP and Diaz, GSP will be able to fight more effectively in an mma match because fighting requires a certain amount of strength which is different from idling your hear rate while jogging, biking, or swimming.
Endurance athletes can idle their heart rate and breathing for long periods of time but only on a low output. MMA requires frequent bursts of energy during exchanges, clinches, and scrambles.
I am no physical fitness expert but it is my opinion GSP's cardio is better suited for mma. The only way Diaz's cardio will become a significant factor against GSP is for the fight to go into the 7th or 8th round. I say this because GSP's cardio is amazing and a 5 round fight is nothing for him. If Diaz was fighting average cardio-Joes, then it would only need to go into the second or third round before Diaz's cardio becomes a significant factor.
Summary for clarification: In a 10 round fight against GSP, I could easily see Diaz's cardio becoming a significant factor for winning the fight - but in a 5 round fight against GSP, Diaz's cardio will not become significant enough to make a difference in the fight.
cowcatcher
11/2/11 12:47:33PM
Posted by KungFuMaster
I don't want to enter this debate because I already know in my mind who is going to win.
GSP, Edgar, and Diaz all have amazing conditioning. Which conditioning of the three fighters is best for mma? I would have to say Edgar, then GSP, and then Diaz.
Between GSP and Diaz, GSP will be able to fight more effectively in an mma match because fighting requires a certain amount of strength which is different from idling your hear rate while jogging, biking, or swimming.
Endurance athletes can idle their heart rate and breathing for long periods of time but only on a low output. MMA requires frequent bursts of energy during exchanges, clinches, and scrambles.
I am no physical fitness expert but it is my opinion GSP's cardio is better suited for mma. The only way Diaz's cardio will become a significant factor against GSP's is for the fight to go into the 7th or 8th round. I say this because GSP's cardio is amazing and a 5 round fight is nothing for him. If Diaz was fighting average cardio-Joes, then it would only need to go into the second or third round before Diaz's cardio becomes a significant factor.
Summary for clarification: In a 10 round fight against GSP, I could easily see Diaz's cardio becoming a significant factor for winning the fight - but in a 5 round fight against GSP, Diaz's cardio will not become significant enough to make a difference in the fight.
KungFuMaster
11/2/11 1:04:09PM
When he posts, the internet freezes.
When he tells ferry tales, it comes to life.
When he reads, the words become pictures.
He is known for winning arguments.............. even when he is wrong.
He is .................the most interesting man in the world.
KungFuMaster: " I don't always tell the truth.......but when I do, I prefer to make things up."
When he tells ferry tales, it comes to life.
When he reads, the words become pictures.
He is known for winning arguments.............. even when he is wrong.
He is .................the most interesting man in the world.
KungFuMaster: " I don't always tell the truth.......but when I do, I prefer to make things up."
cowcatcher
11/2/11 1:06:45PM
Posted by KungFuMaster
When he posts, the internet freezes.
When he tells ferry tales, it comes to life.
When he reads, the words become pictures.
He is known for winning arguments.............. even when he is wrong.
He is .................the most interesting man in the world.
KungFuMaster: " I don't always tell the truth.......but when I do, I prefer to make things up."
KungFuMaster
11/2/11 1:27:01PM
Posted by cowcatcher
Posted by KungFuMaster
When he posts, the internet freezes.
When he tells ferry tales, it comes to life.
When he reads, the words become pictures.
He is known for winning arguments.............. even when he is wrong.
He is .................the most interesting man in the world.
KungFuMaster: " I don't always tell the truth.......but when I do, I prefer to make things up."
Glad you liked it and I did make that up.
Geoffo
11/2/11 3:20:23PM
Why does everyone think GSP has a glass chin? Matt Serra fight? He got clipped behind the ear. Im not saying he has a great chin, but come on.
Back to Diaz. Pretty much what everyone else said... best cardio, different style of fighting (in your face, lots of punches). If you look at his skill set, the only way you can beat him really is if you try to knock him out with one punch, or LnP him.
But GSP does have enough skills to take him down, pound him out while avoiding subs. GSP is 10x stronger than Diaz. BJJ technique wise, he can't be bad.
Back to Diaz. Pretty much what everyone else said... best cardio, different style of fighting (in your face, lots of punches). If you look at his skill set, the only way you can beat him really is if you try to knock him out with one punch, or LnP him.
But GSP does have enough skills to take him down, pound him out while avoiding subs. GSP is 10x stronger than Diaz. BJJ technique wise, he can't be bad.
Adrenaline
11/3/11 1:02:19AM
Posted by Bowen50
Posted by Adrenaline
I'm usually not the type to start a thread like this but I hear a lot of people saying that GSP is going to be in "for a fight" against Diaz. Especially after his win over BJ.
Am I alone by completely ignoring this? I cannot believe people are buying this crap, not necessarily on this site, but others . I honestly think that Condit is by far the greatest challenge to GSP at this point. I have been highly critical of St. Pierre over the last few years and don't consider myself a fan at all but I can't see Diaz being any threat to GSP.
BJ Penn is a hero to me but he does not belong at WW. If people think that Nick will be able to do the same thing to GSP, they are sadly mistaken. Nick has great hands and cardio but neither will come into play because GSP is going to put him on his ass and will ride him hard and put him away wet.
I keep hearing these fantasies about Nick getting GSP against the fence and landing his pitter patter strikes until GSP quits but people seem to forget that Nick has not faced a wrestler since he left the UFC in 2006 and for very good reason....he can't beat a strong wrestler with basic sub defense.
I guess my point is that GSP is too big, too fast, and too strong for Diaz. He will take him down and will and will probably out strike him as well enroute to an easy UD. Believe me, I have wanted to see GSP dethroned for a long time, but Diaz is not the guy that will do it. I see GSP man handling him for 5 rounds and Diaz bitching about getting his ass handed to him because GSP did not want to "fight".
I'm just not buying it. There is nothing that Diaz offers that GSP has not seen before. He does not have one strike power, and GSP is not easy by any means to submit. Nick is getting thrown around for 5 rounds and GSP is leaving with the belt. I'm not a hater either, I love Nick's style and enjoy his fights but it is what it is. I also hear people saying that George looked "scared" in the crowd after Diaz called him out and I saw the opposite, I thought GSP looked extremely confident, not for a second did I think he looked nervous and this is coming from a guy that has rooted against GSP for the last 5 years.
Sorry this was so long. Discuss!
i've been very quiet on these forums for a long time now but this topic has left me with a lot of things to say.
BJ Penn is one of the greatest fighters to ever walk the planet Earth. To say something like "he doesn't belong at WW" doesn't make sense to me when he has won a belt in that division. Not to mention, before his fight with Diaz, he had never lost a fight to someone that didn't hold a UFC title at some point in their career.
Who's to say Nick can't do the same thing to GSP? GSP's cardio is no joke but Diaz has without a doubt in my mind the best cardio the sport has EVER seen. He runs triathlons when he's bored. Granted, like you said, he has a history of losing to wrestlers but watch those fights over again. None of those losses were 30-27 on the scorecards if I'm not mistaken and a few should have gone the other way (personal opinion). That was back in 2006. Diaz's all around grappling game has improved leaps and bounds since then. I'm not about to suggest Diaz is going to stifle GSP's takedowns but I'm 100% positive Diaz is going to make GSP feel extremely uncomfortable when he's on top by threatening with sweeps and submissions very regularly. If he successfully does this and gets the fight standing I'm very confident he can really bust GSP up on the feet by pushing a really hard pace like he did against BJ into the championship rounds.
I promise you if Diaz can make GSP feel uncomfortable on top he will be the next WW champion. There's not 1 person at 170 pounds that can keep up with his pace on the feet. I have personally been very critical of Diaz in the past but as of late he has looked incredible. To refer to a realization that someone has an incredible amount of skill as "hype", simply write them off, and essentially say "this is the way this fight is going to happen and that's that" when he most certainly has the tools to win shows me you're very new to this sport and read a lot of the history on wikipedia. Like it or not Diaz is a very scary fight for GSP and everyone else in that division. I have a feeling come February no one will be using the name Diaz and the word "hype" in the same sentence.
Ha ha well I'm glad I could bait you out of "retirement" Bowen, you definately have been absent for awhile.
Cool your jets and read my follow up in this thread( I think you missed it because you literally accused me of something I said I didn't mean in the followup), I basically said that I might have came in a little hot in this thread and said some things I didn't mean. I was fired up from reading little trolls like myself and might have been a little brash in what I said.
Just two things, I already said it, BJ Penn is a hero of mine, If there is one pair of nuts that anyone could say I hang off of, it is his, so don't feel so compelled to "school" me about how great he is, I know how great he is. He has literally inspired me many times in my life and I consider myself a huge fan. I still stand by what I said though. yes BJ won the title in the WW division, by pure talent and skill. You are a smart guy, don't try to tell me that even though he was able to win a title in a division that he is well suited for that division. How many examples do you want me to post of BJ struggling with cardio and size issues at 170? I don't think I need to because you know that. I think it is very clear that at BJ's age it will take more than skill and talent to be competitive in a weight class that he so obviously not suited for, that is what I meant by not belonging. He never has, he is just that good.
And secondly, it is really un original and condesending to assume that you know when I started following the sport or where I gained my knowledge. I have seen it many times on these forums and it just makes the person questioning look like an arrogant ass. I have been following MMA for a very long time, and my join date aside, I have been a part of MMAPG since almost the beginning. You are very familiar to me as well as everyone else on these boards that have been around a long time. I guess I'm trying to say that you are better than that, and I know you are because I've been around longer than you give me credit for.
Pookie
11/3/11 1:25:10AM
Posted by Kpro
Posted by Pookie
Georges shoulders are way broader, so that factors into his reach. Georges does maximize his reach advantage well usually.
Diaz has longer arms, but the shorter wingspan overall.
Fixed.
Which is an entirely different topic as to why the UFC doesn't use armpit to knuckles. I'll never get it. Brock Lesnar has measured at 81" and Stefan Struve at 84"; again their measurements vary by fight somehow. Why they factor a back into the reach is beyond me, and I'm pretty sure the UFC measures fingertip to fingertip so it's a "wingspan" measurement, not a "reach" measurement. No one thinks Brock has a similar reach as Struve, but if you measure across the back, sure it'll look that way. Armpit to knuckle should be the standard as most of boxing has already correctly made the switch. UFC is dragging their knuckles on this one.
Wingspan is synonymous with reach.
I like that it does. Shoulders go into a punch, and a fighter with broad shoulders who really turns his body with his punches is going to have a deceptively long range, and he's going to have it on power punches. And fighters who have average "wingspans" but long arms(like diaz) would seem to fight with a longer range than he should, and that he'll surprise you with it on his straight punches. So either way, the Wingspan method or the Armpit to Knuckle method, they are going to leave out some sort of information about their range, and the way that fighter attacks in his range.
I don't get why Armpit to knuckle is valued higher when it essentially tells you less information. Knowing the width of the shoulders is just as valuable as knowing the length of the arms.
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