Help defending subs » MMA General » MMA Training » Help defending subs
10/2/08 3:55:05AM
Ok, I do train for mma and I have 4 amateur fights under my belt, but I can't seem to defend WELL against a guillotine after I go for and get a takedown, even with wrist control. any tips there.........

another question.........

I have only come to this predicament once but it was a bad experience for me, I was gettin destroyed standing(which never happens), so I pulled guard, and all he did was lean as far forward as he could to where my knees were basically behind my head....... I could barely breath, but I was holding his wrists so I could make sure he didn't drop big bombs on me(keep in mind I'm basically blind out of my left eye at this point, where big right bombs come from), so the only thing I could think to do was roll over, cuz the armbar just was not gonna happen, and somehow he caught me with a kneebar and I had to tap or I wouldn't be walkin for awhile. Any help here?

I'm 2-2 by the way

W's- 1 sub (triangle)
1 tko
L's- 2 sub (obviously, guillotine & kneebar)
10/2/08 4:51:05AM
If your stuck in the guillotine, try to crossface him. your forearm in his throat or right under his nose and push up. thats some of the worst pain i've felt. It should at least distract him enough for a second or to, to where he might losen it up. and do your best to get out of his guard. once you get to side control your ok. and just dont panic, thats the worst thing that you can do.
10/2/08 6:42:14AM
well the guillotine is the easiest sub to get and the easiest sub to escape. as soon as you feel the guillotine coming get to half guard or side control. he can't submit you from side control at all and you would have to be pretty bad to get submitted from half guard. the other important thing is to control your breathing immediately. some guys have a lot of power and can win with a guillotine from all sorts of weird positions. if you control your breathing you should buy yourself a lot of time (big difference, its amazing how much difference controlling your breathing makes) to try and escape. if you can't seem to get out of his guard, you have to try and get your neck perpendicular to him. now by perpendicular i am talking two-dimensional so if he is north-south you need to try and tilt your head east-west. try to work on his grip as well and remember, just relax. guillotine slip off a lot so just be patient.

for your next question what that guy did to you is called stacking your opponent. it is a good technique to avoid triangles and puts your opponent in an awkward position as you saw for yourself. the trick is to not let him get to the point where he can stack you by having good control in your guard. don't let him posture up, but sometimes they just overpower you. in that case, you can attempt to go for a sweep. i would suggest going for a kimura and using it to sweep by pushing off of his hip with your foot. this will create some space for you and you might actually hit the sweep as well.

hope i helped.
10/2/08 9:24:26AM
getting stacked is no fun at all that is for certain. one technique that you are probably familiar with but that can be very effective, especially if you have control of one of his arms, like it sounds like you did, is to essentially try to roll over into an armbar. if someone has you stacked you are not going to be able to extend to armbar him in the traditional way but sometimes you can do what is essentially a backroll into an armbar. it can happen fast and catch your opponent off guard if they are not experienced. if you are getting stacked just go with the stacking and do a kind of backroll towards the arm you are attacking. if the guy is good it wont work but sometimes its a way to get a submission instead of getting stacked.
10/2/08 12:17:20PM
JJF sumed it up well also you need to prob work on your takedowns sounds like your going for the double leg and fall right into his gaurd with your head in his arm pit instead of going directly down you need your his to be to the side and take him to the other side. I know its not the best explination but you should get the idea.
10/3/08 3:12:44AM
Some good advice posted in here already

Don't be afraid to actively defend the guillotine from a standing position, either. Number one priority is getting to side control (as has been reinforced already) but if you can't do that get a hand up in there and try to snake your head out. Sometimes that's all it takes. Still, go for side control first because that's a guaranteed out.
10/3/08 4:09:01AM
Thanx everyone, I really appreciate the tips. I felt like an idiot when I got submitted by the guillotine cuz I held it off for so long(almost 2 minutes, he just kept switchin position so there was no standup), but that dudes arms just did not get tired, they were like god damn pythons.

thanks especially for the advice on working against the stacking technique, I felt like a fish out of ****** water when that happened, even training jiu jitsu as much as I do,(I'm a blue belt, but I've submitted 3 black belts in competition), just never experienced that b4.

On another note, I did notice in the Griffin vs Jackson fight, that when Forrest put Rampage in the triangle, all Forrest would have had to do to avoid being slammed was wrap an arm around Rampage's leg and he wouldn't have been able to lift up, anyone else notice that?
10/3/08 6:34:25AM
Are you a blue belt in Japanese jiu jitsu, or BJJ? Any other grappling experience?
10/3/08 10:02:42AM
100% effective way to defend a guillotine that has not sunk to optimal depth, i.e. cutting off all breathing: Turn your head so your face is buried in his ribs, then push on his nose at an upward angle with your free hand. This causes a good deal of pain, and adds leverage when you try to pull your neck out.

As for your TD's, make sure you elevate the guy on double legs, or at least get his legs to the opposite side of your head and come down with your inside shoulder buried in his sternum. Oh, and cut an angle so that you come in more diagonally than straight forward, he will most likely not have the chacne to THINK about the sub.
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