The VP debates... Who watched them? What you think?

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StevenSeagal
10/3/08 1:18:25PM
Hey guys. As you can tell I like writing about politics, so Its time for a new topic. The last topic about "smelling what Barack is cooking" went very well, and we were able to discuss things without childish insults. So with that being said, Id like to get input on the VP debate last night...

Overall, I didn't think Palin did that bad. Im still a liberal, so obviously im going with Biden. The thing I always notice in these debates is that why both parties spin statements and voting records, Democrats at least spin FACTS to make the other look bad. Republicans tend to just make up stuff to spin... There were a couple of topics where Biden or Obama never said or voted the way Palin described. Now when Biden throws a jab, its at least a spin off of the truth, not a complete fabrication lol. Both forms of debate, make no progress to inform the voter of facts.

What should be done is almost have a damn fact sheet of what they voted for and why, and explain from there. Present the facts of both parties records and let the people choose; the way our corrupt system is supposed to go...

CantAndleDaRiddum
10/3/08 1:36:05PM
i thought biden & palin both seemed like they were platforming instead of answering questions
StevenSeagal
10/3/08 2:00:37PM
True. The term debate probably shouldn't even be used for these things. They are not actually debating issues... Merely platforming and spinning. Both could have done the same via TV broadcasts instead of wasting the taxpayer's money to pay for the debate. I remember reading that one small time local debate in my area costed the taxpayer's 3 mil to fund. The news people found out and had a field day. They had a field day because it was small scale and nothing ever came of the debate (or else I would have remembered who they were). But imagine the $ scale that it took to put on this shindig... U think they payed out their own pockets for the "debate"? Highly doubt it.
Jackelope
10/3/08 2:01:04PM
Only heard part of it (Was in school) but it seemed like politics as usual. It does seem like Sarah Palin did a lot better than people were expecting, though.
Rush
10/3/08 2:07:35PM
Nah, I watched the Canadian debate instead. It went really well.
loller90278
10/3/08 2:48:57PM
my .02 cents on the vp debate last night:

1.sarah palin did not seem like the moose in headlights the media (especially the internet) describe her to be. sure she seems a bit redneck and speaks like shes talking to 3rd graders but she didn't freeze up and make any horrible mistakes.

2. no matter who wins, i feel sorry for the homosexuals in this country, they'll have to wait another 4+ years to be granted marriage licenses

3. i think on the tv screen they should have an instant fact check. like when biden stated that mccain voted 20/24 times against alternative fuel they should put up a cited fact. or the opposite to call out palin's lies. i think its a good idea and it would make the candidates think twice about telling fibs.

4. i think if McCain does get elected (now which im starting to doubt, i think barak is slowly going to start creeping away with the lead) and for some reason passes away, i will move out of the country if palin takes over.

StevenSeagal
10/3/08 4:25:25PM

Posted by loller90278

my .02 cents on the vp debate last night:

1.sarah palin did not seem like the moose in headlights the media (especially the internet) describe her to be. sure she seems a bit redneck and speaks like shes talking to 3rd graders but she didn't freeze up and make any horrible mistakes.

2. no matter who wins, i feel sorry for the homosexuals in this country, they'll have to wait another 4+ years to be granted marriage licenses

3. i think on the tv screen they should have an instant fact check. like when biden stated that mccain voted 20/24 times against alternative fuel they should put up a cited fact. or the opposite to call out palin's lies. i think its a good idea and it would make the candidates think twice about telling fibs.

4. i think if McCain does get elected (now which im starting to doubt, i think barak is slowly going to start creeping away with the lead) and for some reason passes away, i will move out of the country if palin takes over.




lol thats what I said... i was like man id move to Europe or someplace. Or there would be a coup (overthrow, donno if coup is the spelling)
pv3Hpv3p
10/3/08 5:07:44PM
VP debates are worthless... It's almost like a "my dad can beat up your dad" arguement...

To be honest I didn't watch very much of it... Palin's voice bothers me, and to me it seems like she doesn't generate much thought on her own... She doesn't seem to do well without rehearsed answer to prescreened questions... It may just be that she's under a lot of pressure or still hasn't got comfortable with possibly being the first woman to hold that high of an office, but she just seems a little daft sometimes...,and personally I think Biden is better suited for a run at the presidency than Obama (neither of whom I like by the way), but to be honest I don't know much about the man, and just think career politician when I see him...

And since McCain has turned into his party's marionette, I don't have much faith in the good guys either...

Both run on a platform of change, but I just don't get how the republican party can call for change and not see that to the average voter that means change of the party running the gov't first ond formost, seems like they're shooting themselves in the foot there...

Oh, well.... Anyone I see inheriting the problems that America faces right now probably isn't going to get reelected unless something amazing happens, and I don't hink many people (including myself) see that coming
Branwest
10/3/08 7:25:40PM
Biden won easily on points. The fact checking afterwards made Palin look pretty bad. She skipped several questions and she kept called the General in Afghanistan, McKinnley, the Civil War General instaed of McKiernan- the right name. She prepped for over three weeks for that debate and everything she said was rehearsed, except for the question about VP powers according to the Constitution and there she looked like a dear in the headlights. Although she did do better than expected, but how could she not after those interviews with Kate Courik? According the CNN poll, Biden won the debate 51% to 36%.
Does anyone remember when McCain wanted to outlaw/ban MMA events?
Go Obama!! I voted for him in the primary and I'll vote for him on Nov. 4th. I saw his key-note address in 2004 at the Dem. Nat. Convention and predicted that he'd be the first black President. I just didn't think it'd be this soon, I didn't give the American people that much credit. Unfortunately, my state and West Virginia were the two highest in post-primary surveys citing race as the reason they wouldn't vote for Obama. That's pathetic.
CwB
10/3/08 8:54:59PM

Posted by Branwest

According the CNN poll, Biden won the debate 51% to 36%.



when checking polls on websites like cnn you will always get a biased answer, just like if you checked the fox website i bet it shows that the majority think that sarah won the debate...

I feel like 90% of the people who actually watch the debates already have a candidate that they will vote for and with all the slander that goes on during these debates they kind of lose there purpose...

why cant they just argue there different stances on real issues face to face with eye contact...
StorminYourman
10/4/08 11:01:39AM

Posted by Branwest

Biden won easily on points. The fact checking afterwards made Palin look pretty bad. She skipped several questions and she kept called the General in Afghanistan, McKinnley, the Civil War General instaed of McKiernan- the right name. She prepped for over three weeks for that debate and everything she said was rehearsed, except for the question about VP powers according to the Constitution and there she looked like a dear in the headlights. Although she did do better than expected, but how could she not after those interviews with Kate Courik? According the CNN poll, Biden won the debate 51% to 36%.
Does anyone remember when McCain wanted to outlaw/ban MMA events?
Go Obama!! I voted for him in the primary and I'll vote for him on Nov. 4th. I saw his key-note address in 2004 at the Dem. Nat. Convention and predicted that he'd be the first black President. I just didn't think it'd be this soon, I didn't give the American people that much credit. Unfortunately, my state and West Virginia were the two highest in post-primary surveys citing race as the reason they wouldn't vote for Obama. That's pathetic.



I remember! That whole straight talk express has always bothered me. The only reason he really wanted the ban was his family's business relationship with Anhiesser-Busch( probaly did not spell that right) who saw MMA and specifically the UFC as a threat to boxing in which they(bud) were a huge sponsor of.Brutality was BS rather it was all about money! Now that the rules have changed McCain has said MMA has grown up, well I guess so now that Budweiser is sponsoring events and he his family will make money off of Joe six pack again. The straight talk express seems like typical circular politican talk IMHO!
Kracker_Jap
10/4/08 1:12:30PM
Sarah won hands down in every way you can anilize the debate....

For those who said Biden won, it makes me wonder if you really watched it or can be honest with your self...

Biden came out swinging with over 30 years experience 14 documented untruths and a message of change He talked with his normal political talk Bla Bla Bla... (So much for change)

How could he let little Sarah get so many shots in his very old and experienced armor??? Maybe its cuz she doesn't give a shit all of his washington freinds and cares more about the "People"

I admit Obama kicked Mccains butt in there last event, But this VP debate goes down in the record books as Sarahs win
loller90278
10/4/08 3:59:12PM

Posted by CwB


Posted by Branwest

According the CNN poll, Biden won the debate 51% to 36%.



when checking polls on websites like cnn you will always get a biased answer, just like if you checked the fox website i bet it shows that the majority think that sarah won the debate...

I feel like 90% of the people who actually watch the debates already have a candidate that they will vote for and with all the slander that goes on during these debates they kind of lose there purpose...

why cant they just argue there different stances on real issues face to face with eye contact...



actually, i was checking the fox polls yesterday and biden was winning by about 8%..

surprised me actually.

and to take this thread down the intellectual ladder, heres a pic :)

Rush
10/4/08 5:05:38PM

Posted by loller90278


and to take this thread down the intellectual ladder, heres a pic :)




lol

A similar funny thing happened to a friend of my dad.

Someone stole their (political) reform party sign off their lawn. So what the guy did was make a new sign with spray paint on plywood.

It said "Stolen: our reform sign"

Then some brilliant jerk comes and spray paints this over top of it.

"learn how to construct a sentance you reform racist"


My dad's friend put that sign out on his lawn every time there was an election just to show how stupid people can be.
hippysmacker
10/4/08 7:09:07PM

Posted by StevenSeagal

Hey guys. As you can tell I like writing about politics, so Its time for a new topic. The last topic about "smelling what Barack is cooking" went very well, and we were able to discuss things without childish insults. So with that being said, Id like to get input on the VP debate last night...

Overall, I didn't think Palin did that bad. Im still a liberal, so obviously im going with Biden. The thing I always notice in these debates is that why both parties spin statements and voting records, Democrats at least spin FACTS to make the other look bad. Republicans tend to just make up stuff to spin... There were a couple of topics where Biden or Obama never said or voted the way Palin described. Now when Biden throws a jab, its at least a spin off of the truth, not a complete fabrication lol. Both forms of debate, make no progress to inform the voter of facts.

What should be done is almost have a damn fact sheet of what they voted for and why, and explain from there. Present the facts of both parties records and let the people choose; the way our corrupt system is supposed to go...






That is hilarious. Yes its a novel idea both spin. Yes they both sidestep questions. However claiming democrats as the party of facts because Biden was spouting numbers all night is ludicrous. You don't even know if the numbers are real. Some I know for certain were outright misrepresentations, and that was without doing a bunch of digging. You start these threads as if you really want everyones opinions, when all your are doing is schilling for Obama /Biden. Whats the point? I can tell you 10 good/bad things about either side, and all you do is spew pro Obama/ anti McCain redorick. Since you never take the time to even look into what is being claimed as a fact by - " truth telling liberals" let me do it for you. Heres a couple of easily proven Biden lies. There own voting records, and words will convict them on these. You shouldn't have trouble looking it up.

1. Biden's False Defense

Biden denied that Obama supported increasing taxes for families making $42,000 a year – but then falsely claimed that McCain had cast an identical vote.

Biden: Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes. The vote she's referring to, John McCain voted the exact same way. It was a budget procedural vote. John McCain voted the same way. It did not raise taxes. joe

Biden was correct only to the extent that the resolution Obama supported would not by itself have increased taxes; it was a vote on a budget resolution that set revenue and spending targets. But he's wrong to say McCain voted the same way. The Obama campaign attempted to justify Biden's remark by pointing to a different vote, on a Senate amendment, that took place March 13. The amendment passed 99-1, with only Democratic Sen. Russ Feingold dissenting. It would have preserved some of Bush's tax cuts for lower-income people. The vote on the budget resolution in question, however, came in the wee hours of March 14 and was a mostly party-line tally, 51-44, with Obama in favor and McCain not voting.



Absolutely a bald faced lie. yet i heard it being talked about later at a coffee shop , by people who were scared by it. My head almost exploded but instead I informed them they were wrong, And told not to believe me, but look into it FOR THEMSELVES. Wow , novel idea, actually check something before parroting it to the masses as truth.

2. Biden claimed that McCain said in a magazine article that he wanted to deregulate the health care industry as the banking industry had been. That’s taking McCain’s words out of context.He was talking specifically about his proposal to allow the sale of health insurance across state lines.

3. Biden said five times that McCain's tax plan would give oil companies a "$4 billion tax cut." If you ever bothered to actually check you would know , McCain’s plan would cut the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent — for ALL corporations, not just oil companies. Biden uses a Democratic think tank's estimate for what the rate change is worth to the five largest U.S. oil companies, and then spit sout the misrepresentation.

I could go on for hours, and Palin had her fair share of crap too, but come on man, why should I bother? You don't care. Your not here to actually talk about the debate, truth, justice, whats best for America, character, and especially" facts" Your just there to shill for Obama and Biden. Be a liberal and vote for them , thats fine man .You are entitled to your opinion, but stop spinning lies here, or just don't post. I am a conservative, and I will probably vote for McCain just becuase I am afraid of what Obama and Biden would do. I think they will make the Bush administrations spending plans look like Ebenezer Scrooge was at the helm, but we will see. I m also afraid McCains maverick ways will see him overthrown( or killed ala JFK) by his own party. That doesn''t mean I think McCain is the be-all-end-all good guy. It means I think he will buck the status quo of a lot of really powerful people who are not used to being thwarted. Then again the way he's compromising now to get elected like ll the other politicians I have lost respect for , he will probably just buckle like the rest. The only hope of true change I have from any candidate fiscally, is that McCain will at lest call people out for there spending. I beleive that would make a lot of difference in America over the long run. On Social issues I am definitely a conservative. If you are a social liberal, and thats more important to you vote on that. Still, i am under no ridiculous false representations that only liberals lie, conservatives just quote facts. Their are only a few possibilities based on what i have seen of your political posts as to why you do them. You are either naive, a shill to whom truth is irrelevant, or a mindless drone parroting whatever the democratic party tells you. I'm going to just hope for naiveté, but stop wasting everyones time lying and spinning, and for petes sake investigate before you type.
Jackelope
10/4/08 7:42:14PM
LOL, wow Hippysmacker I've rarely seen such emotion in a post from you

It's true, though.. one thing I hate about politics is how both parties spin webs of lies. Like I said in another thread- you keep lying, and lying, and lying and eventually you believe your own crap. Both parties are guilty as hell of it.

If either one of these candidates had voted against this bailout they would have earned my vote, to be honest. However, neither of them did so they both showed to me that they're just coward politicians who talk about change but do little. "Blah, blah, blah, blah"
dannyfrank
10/4/08 10:31:01PM
the way i see it, we need to be focusing a little more on the vice president. the reason for this is because if mcain is elected, there is a realistic chance he could die while in office, leaving us with palin. if obama is elected, there is a good chance that some racist asshole is going to try to assassinate him, leaving us with biden. now, i honestly dont know much about biden, but if palin was our president... good god have mercy on our souls!
Kracker_Jap
10/5/08 5:53:24PM
There is more of a chance Obama will not know what the hell he is doing in office and will need Bidens help !!!

Than the chance of him being................ (I can't say it, it just feels wrong)
Branwest
10/5/08 7:44:17PM

Posted by CwB


Posted by Branwest

According the CNN poll, Biden won the debate 51% to 36%.



when checking polls on websites like cnn you will always get a biased answer, just like if you checked the fox website i bet it shows that the majority think that sarah won the debate...

I feel like 90% of the people who actually watch the debates already have a candidate that they will vote for and with all the slander that goes on during these debates they kind of lose there purpose...

why cant they just argue there different stances on real issues face to face with eye contact...



I don't competely disagree. However, I would trust CNN more than MSNBC or FOX. Fox doesn't just lean to the right, they fell over to the right, and MSNBC leans to the left. CNN posts how many stories they do on various subjects and they at least make an attempt to be fair. But yes, the mainstream media does tend to lean left, newspapers (NYTimes, Washington Post, etc) do as well, and most colleges do with liberal professors. But that doesn't bother me because I'm a hard-core Democrat.
I'm no new Obama fan. I watched his key-note speech in 2004 at the DNConvention and have followed his career since, as well as reading his two books. I watch more news that I do anything else on TV (except maybe MMA), and I read constantly, and research on the internet in my free time from work and school. I know the subjects in and out, and I am confident in my choice for President. I have no problems with people with opinions that differ from my own. That's what this country is about. However, I have no patience for bigotry. I respect John McCain and his service. His time in a POW camp is horrible and it's amazing that he's alive, however, I'm going to vote for the person I believe will do the best job, and IMO, that's Obama. I saw that some of you think Palin won the debate. Go to any person that knows about debates and they'll tell you otherwise. Not only did Palin skip at least 3 questions, but everything she said was practiced and rehearsed. That is, until they asked her about VP powers according to the Constitution and whether it applies only to the Executive Branch or Legislative. The only time a VP can interfere in the Senate is when there is a complete tie in a vote, and then they can cast the deciding vote. That hasn't happened for over 7 years. The abuse of power Cheney has done to the VP position is sickening.

Actually hippysmacker, Biden stated the fact that all corporate taxes would be cut, and then stated that it would result in 4$ billion tax but for oil companies. Watch it again on DVR. Now I'm not saying that truths are stretched because they are, on both sides. You can go to various sites that will explain what was taken out of context or flat out lied about in the debate. There are a few "Truth Squads." But McCain DOES want to tax health benefits, and does want to give $5,000 credits to people for health care. Since it costs on average $12000 for health care, many businesses won't be able to afford the other 7 grand and will drop health coverage for many people. Experts (and you can look up the 'experts') say that several million more people will lose coverage under this policy. Also, if you make over $250,000, under Obama's plan, your tax rate will go back to what it was under Reagan. Your taxes will stay the same if your making from, I believe 110 to 250,000. And if you make under 90,000 or so, you will get a tax break. Now, some argue that this will hurt businesses, but 95% of businesses make less than $250,000 a year profit. There's not enough time or room to type everything I want to say, and after all, this is an mma site.

Now, there's winning a debate according to debate protocols and points, and there's winning the debate with the public. They are different. Either way, Biden won. The mess that the next Pres has to deal with is crazy, let alone the financial and mortgage crisis. It'll take a lot more than 4 years to completely heal. Bush will go down as the worst Pres of all time. He's also broke the record for the most vacation time by a Pres beating Nixon. He takes around 6 months of every year for vacation. Now I know that some work may be done while on vacation, but still, this is a fact.
masodd
10/7/08 1:40:37AM
Sarah Palin's hot. She's a milf and soon to be a gilf (grandma)
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