Should Dana ease up on Fedor?

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POLL: Should Dana White be more flexible in trying to sign Fedor?
Yes. It's freakin' Fedor, man! 68% (48)
No. It would set a bad precedent. 25% (18)
(Other.) 7% (5)
wilwith1l
7/28/07 8:00:27PM
His division is stacked. He just rises so far above them, he seems god like. If someone dominated the ww division like he has it would be the same way.
_GSP_
7/28/07 9:49:00PM
OMG look at him fight he ain't THAT great there are almost none complete fighter in the heavy division i mean do you people even look at his fight look against mark hunt he was laying on his back incapable of doing nothing for a couple of minutes and mark hunt his a freaking kickboxer cmon
IceMuncher
7/29/07 2:08:07AM

Posted by LR

I have commented a few times on MMAPlayground about this situation in depth in the past. I really believe Bodog has a very great opportunity to sign Fedor over the UFC.



Fedor's manager doesn't like Bodog. He wasn't happy with the way they did a collaboration.


I am talking about collaborations similar to the one with BodogFight, except that BodogFight is not an organization that has integrity and I will not work with them again. They used us to get a foot in the door in Russia and have now started developing their own business here on their own.


On another note, the poster earlier basically nailed the problem with the negotiations. This isn't over a sambo tournament. Fedor's manager basically wants to take over part of the UFC. They want to force the UFC to expand into Russia, and they want to force the UFC to hire the other fighters from the camp. These are not demands that a company like UFC can give into for just one fighter, even if it's the best fighter in the world. I've also got a feeling that there might be more to it than that.


The UFC is slightly different. They have their own ways of doing things. For example, I suggested that they have a UFC event in Russia, which I would organize for them, including financial assistance. They said that didn't suit their current development plans.

I requested the right to show UFC content during the television slot we have with the state broadcaster in Russia. They declined and said that they had their own people who would organize this here. And today those people came to me to ask me to place the UFC content into our slot. I was fine with this, it's going ahead. I'm not a spiteful person. What matters is the exposure of the sport in Russia, UFC, or other organizations, it doesn't matter. What's important to me is my fighters getting recognition and the sport gaining popularity here.

Of course I prefer that they came to me for help in Russia, in organizing an event for them here in St. Petersburg, or in Moscow, no on else could do what I can. There is no one in Russia that can even get close to us with MMA promotion.




But there are other factors. The UFC is only interested in Fedor; they are not considering other Red Devil fighters. K-1 is prepared to take our boys and provide other assistance as well, in developing the team. But we're not in a huge hurry. If Fedor is not signed for a while, I will organize a match here for him.
IceMuncher
7/29/07 2:13:29AM

Posted by wilwith1l

His division is stacked. He just rises so far above them, he seems god like. If someone dominated the ww division like he has it would be the same way.



Someone did. His name was Matt Hughes.

All dominating streaks come to an end. Always. The question is when does Fedor's end? If a major upset occurs and Fedor loses early in his UFC career, giving into these demands would look absolutely ridiculous.

*waits for the idealistic dreamers that think Fedor is unbeatable to come and flame me*
Pitbull09
7/29/07 9:36:23PM
I dont understand how dana wont lock this deal down, he has the chance of hosting the biggest ufc vs pride fight ever (Coture vs Feor). That fight would be awesome since coture is used to being a underdog.
mikevolz
7/30/07 12:00:18AM

Posted by Piccosaur


Posted by mikevolz

i want the ufc to sign fedor for the simple reason of hearing joe rogan's head explode when he talks fedor up.

i remember when cro cop was arguably the best fighter in the world according to joe rogan.

i can't wait for this "fedor is like the hulk mixed with bruce lee, hes insane, he's so aggressive... he just out aggresses his opponents!"



Your joking right? Joe Rogan knows a ton about Fedor and a ton about other top fighters that aren't in the UFC. People REALLY need to watch/hear Rogan some more before making assumption of what he'll say. Plus, your acting like he said Griffin is the best fighter in the world or something. In many people's opinions Cro-Cop IS the best fighter in the world even though he lost to Fedor.



first off joe rogan, is a good announcer, and next to mike goldberg he seems like the most knowledgeable mma big wig in the world, but frankly he hero worships some of the fighters worse than john madden could ever hope to in the remaining bit of his fried-food, bus driving filled life.

and joe rogan did say that cro cop was arguably the best fighter in the world, with NO mention of fedor.

and onto cro cop being better than fedor, unfortunately, none of those people where the judges of the fight between the two the fight went the full time, cro cop received 2 yellow cards, and was outstruck by fedor (cro cop's best strength mind you) and put on his back most of the fight. he has a weak heart, isn't aggressive in the later rounds and is extremely one dimensional.

on top of those cro cop has lost to mark hunt, kevin randleman, and antonio rodrigo nogueria (sp). fedor has beat all of them, and beat big nog twice.

please explain to me again how fedor could be considered in anybody's mind a lesser fighter than cro cop? even before gonzaga kicked him in the head.
cmill21
7/30/07 12:20:07AM
One simple thing can be said for that, the OWGP. The first time we saw the real Mirko 'Cro Cop' Filipovic. Now I'm not saying Mirko's better then Fedor, but if you ask Fedor who in his opinion is the best fighter besides himself, do you know who he would say(he has said it before)? Mirko! So there educated mma people who think Mirko would beat Fedor if they fought again and Mirko was at 100% mentally. There are also people who think Fedor's the best mma practitioner to ever walk the earth. So to say what your saying is kind of ignorant.
mikevolz
7/30/07 12:34:42AM

Posted by cmill21

One simple thing can be said for that, the OWGP. The first time we saw the real Mirko 'Cro Cop' Filipovic. Now I'm not saying Mirko's better then Fedor, but if you ask Fedor who in his opinion is the best fighter besides himself, do you know who he would say(he has said it before)? Mirko! So there educated mma people who think Mirko would beat Fedor if they fought again and Mirko was at 100% mentally. There are also people who think Fedor's the best mma practitioner to ever walk the earth. So to say what your saying is kind of ignorant.



wow. i guess im an ignorant person then.

im wondering if you've watched mark hunt fight? in mark hunt's 8th mma match he faced fedor and dominated him for a large majority of that fight, made fedor's armbar look like a joke, mounted him 2 times? 3 times? put him in side control twice.

mark hunt also faced cro cop in his 4th mma fight and beat him as well. (yes, i know he was a kickboxer before, and it was a rematch, spare me). but still, your gonna sit here and tell me that someone who beat cro cop, and controlled fedor for a large portion of the fight, is a worse fighter than cro cop?

and if they fought again and cro cop is 100%? thats a big if buddy, i think in his last fight he really put his heart on his sleeve. didnt train in a cage, or for his fighter and get dominated, from start to finish. forget the kick, he got taken down and elbowed in the face for a large portion of that fight.

i mean am i the only one who think this is like arguing how good of a nfl player pac man jones is?

and for the record, i think fedor is one of the greatest fighters to ever walk the earth. but he still has a lot of work to do to be called the best. (josh barnett, mark hunt II, and the next ufc champ).

but to tell me cro cop is comparable? your out of your damn mind.
cmill21
7/30/07 12:45:52AM
Well if you want to use mmath, you listed Barnett there, Mirko dominated his ass 3 times. You think Mirko put his heart on his sleeve against gg? I think he looked completly disinterested in that fight. He trew one strike the entire fight, does that sound like the Mirko anyone knows? I think Fedor is one of the best mma practioners of all time, but if you ask him who the second best is and he says Mirko don't you have to put some thought into that considering he's fought pretty much everyone? As for the Mark hunt vs. Mirko comparison, it was a split decision and there are a large number of people who felt Mirko won that fight. I also don't think there are many who would say Mark hunt is better then Mirko or Fedor.
mikevolz
7/30/07 12:59:12AM
i think mark hunt won the fight, based on being aggressive in the later rounds, while cro cop was backing away. i thought it should of been unanimous towards hunt, but it was debatable, as at least one professional judge ruled it towards cro cop, and well, im not a professional.

but mirko looking disinterested welcome to his fights? i mean for the sake of my arguement im mostly throwing out gonzaga minus his heart, how can you be considered one of the best in the world and take an opponent so lightly and not bring yourself to fight? i mean this makes me draw the comparison to arlovski, how come arlovski isn't involved in the discussion as best in the world (minus the fact that he hasnt faced anywhere near the competition either cro cop or fedor has) he has just as many 'ifs' in his career as cro cop does, and he's nowhere to be seen talking about the best in the world, much less the ufc?

but as comparing the number two in the world through the eyes of fedor, first off he doesn't even think he's the best fighter in the world, so can you take his opinion that seriously?

but compare how mark hunt fought fedor, vs how cro cop fought fedor, mark hunt was much more dominating. much more aggressive and took the fight too him and did quite well.

but cro cop is a 1 dimensional fighter, he got gameplanned against as in "circle to the right, away from the left foot, shoot , gnp, wait till end of round and throw high kick." and hes able to get away with it because hes a downright amazing athlete, theres a good interview with carlos arona and big nog about cro cop fedor and the state of heavyweights ill try and find for you, its a good read.

cmill21
7/30/07 1:08:16AM
http://www.dailymotion.com/related/858207/video/xvfih_cc-to-the-top/1 I would like you to watch that, just to get an idea on exactly what Mirko is. He goes in cycles, and thats just how it is. I would like to see that interview. I really don't think Mirko's been fighting anywhere near where he can since he's come to the UFC. As for Fedor he's obviously more diverse then Mirko, but you look at people like Nog, he's about as good on his feet as Mirko is on the ground, infact Mirko's GnP is acctually very impressive. The thing about AA is that he's beat tim one out of three, cabbage, and werdum, theres nothing to suggest that he'll be able to stand with Mirko, roll with Fedor, Nog, and Barnett.
mikevolz
7/30/07 1:23:44AM
i mean you showed me a highlight film, ive seen almost every cro cop highlight, because they are ... simply awesome. but you could make a highlight reel out of anybody. im a redskins fan so im gonna use a redskins analogy.

i mean heres one of many highlights from sean taylor from the redskins http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA3OzdmyVOk hes one of the hardest hitters in the nfl, but that doesn't put him anywhere near the best safety in the game. the holes in his game are just as big as cro cops

and your talking about where cro cop COULD be fighting. your talking about his potential and where his potential could be, vs where he comes into the ring at. and frankly his potential doesn't mean jack shit if he doesn't bring it. if you want to talk potential, lets sit down and talk about vitor belfort, kevin randleman, and melvin guillard. its a useless comparison, cro cop will never be a champion, because he will never train hard enough, because he doesn't have heart.

tom brady won super bowls because he plays well in the toughest games, while his statistics are constantly below many others in the nfl. he has that quality that not many people have. and clearly Cro cop doesnt have it either.


and the only reason i brought up AA because you want to talk about underacheiving fighters who have the potential to win, but don't bring it.
cmill21
7/30/07 1:33:58AM
No that is not a highlight film, thats a highlight and low light film. It shows him at his best and worse. I just wanted you to see that the gg isn't as big of a deal as your making it out to be, happens to everyone but fedor. As for his "potential" no I stated he showed exactly what he can do in the OWGP. If he's hungry he's an animal. Since you like football analogies i'll use Peyton Manning/Mirko. One day man one day. Oh and Taylors one of my favorite defensive players, and the redskins are my favorite team.
Rush
7/30/07 1:35:32PM
I chose "other" because I really think that this situation is at an impasse.

Dana seems to want to monopolize the fighters signed with the UFC. There are some smart reasons for this and greedy reasons for this. I understand the desire to prevent his fighters from getting hurt in another organization and then Dana loses out on having a top fighter hurt. On the other hand, it does sort of go against the free enterprise concept. i.e. not wanting other promotions to have access to his 'product'. It's sticky because we are dealing with people and not manufactured goods.

Of course Fedor and his camp want to use Fedor's fame to augment the contract to the best of their interests too. Wouldn't you if you were in his shoes?

I don't see this going anywhere unless one side caves in. Dana has the leverage in saying that he has the top HW fighters in the world and Fedor chose not to sign with them and then speculate as to why this wasn't the case (in ways that don't have to do with contracts). If Dana White makes an exception for Fedor then all hell breaks loose with future contracts. Making exceptions makes it difficult to negotiation future contracts with other fighters.

Fedor basically isn't too concerned because he can make lots of money fighting less tough opponents in Bodog or other promotions. So from a business standpoint Fedor wins either way and Dana only wins if he gets what he wants (and nothing really happens if Fedor doesn't sign with the UFC)

All in all I can see were Dana is coming from, more-so from a business stand point, but I only see his exclusivity clause(s) being present so he can sign fighters for less money. i.e. not have fighters get popular, and demand more money, after fighting in other promotions. However, this kind of goes against his claims that the UFC is the be all end all of MMA promotions.
dstmarti
7/30/07 5:24:49PM
MIKE IS RIGHT. CRO COP IS OLD AND DONE. HUNT IS NUMBER 2.

SEAN TAYLOR IS GOD.
cmill21
7/30/07 5:28:27PM

Posted by dstmarti

MIKE IS RIGHT. CRO COP IS OLD AND DONE. HUNT IS NUMBER 2.

SEAN TAYLOR IS GOD.



Intelligent post!!!!
cmill21
7/30/07 5:54:22PM
Hahaha, I really don't recall any of my points being accounted for. Good to see your intelligent enough not to result to insults. I'm not in pre-med either but I do believe the medical reports said sprained ankle. Yes I do believe Mirko will come back better, he always does after a loss, but hey since your so smart you would know that right? As for your last comment, I won't dignify that with an response, it was pretty childish.
JimiMak
7/30/07 6:13:05PM
Any way, BACK ON TOPIC, most of you voted yes? WTF is wrong w/ y'all. If he wants to fight for UFC OF COURSE he HAS to sign an exclusive deal. And he will. He has to. What's he gonna do go fight for BoDog the rest of his career? He said he wants to fight top competition. There's now only one place to do that, why would he want to fight for a smaller show? His goal should be to get UFC to run shows in Russia.
Every other competitor in every major sport has to sign w/ one team or org. Why is he the exception? Non-exclusive contracts was a major reason PRIDE went down. Why would UFC make an exception for a man who "should" become champ, it gives other ppl excuses to be crybabies when they don't like a fully reasonable term, as well as HE'D BE CHAMP! You don't let your champ fight for someone else, he's YOUR posterboy.
cmill21
7/30/07 6:13:15PM
Read it again, poor counter=no counter. Oh and please read all the medical reports pretaining to that fight you'll see that all that happend was a sprained ankle. Theres also the fact that he walked out of the cage, ussually it's tough to walk if you tear you MCL, ACL, PCL, but you'd know that. I really don't care what you think, you clearly know more about Mirko's career, and mma in general then me so i'll leave it at that.
mikevolz
7/30/07 6:18:45PM
how are my counters poor?

your basis for your arguement is your admiration for cro cop, and what fedor said in an interview how long ago?

my basis is, who fedor has beaten, who cro cop has beaten, and the people who have fought the two of them and how they've done in both of those respective fights. please tell me how thats a poor counter-point?
hippysmacker
7/30/07 6:20:11PM
dstmarti you need a timeout for a month. Just got here and back to back insulting, attacking, deleted post. Cmill I appreciate you not sinking down to 1rst grade level with him.
cmill21
7/30/07 6:24:42PM
No my basis for argument is the fact that Mirko took the best fighter to the edge, as well as dominating Barnett(a fighter a mojority of people feel is one of the top HW) 3 times, not to mention wandy, coleman,sakuraba, and in K-1, hunt, sapp, aerts, bojansky, bernardo, and le banner. Now how can you say that is a bad fighter? Anyways back on topic, I think the UFC should let fedor compete in RING's, and agree to at least one fight in russia. If fedor wants more then that then he can go to bodog or hero's.
jdubs
7/30/07 6:41:54PM
dana is expecting all the fighters to kiss his ass, but dana, this is fedor... you work with HIS term.
JimiMak
7/30/07 11:29:13PM

Posted by jdubs

dana is expecting all the fighters to kiss his ass, but dana, this is fedor... you work with HIS terms and you are HIS bitch.



No. Fedor is a fighter. Dana is far from his bitch. He's the only person in the world who can stand across the bargaining table and not have to blink. He controls the biggest MMA show on the planet. His attempts to block Fedor fighting would prolly work in most countries (obviously prolly not russia). I don't get how so many ppl think any fighter holds all the cards. Esp when the "average" USA fan still doesnt' knwo him. Promoters are always the boss. Literally and figuritively. You can only ever bargain w/ your boss so much, as is the case here. Next thing you're gonna say is the contract laws don't apply to robots.
cmill21
7/30/07 11:47:28PM
But it's like if you are the boss of a company and you have the absolute best worker that you can hire, but he wants to work on the side a bit for another company. Most companies would say whatever he's going to sell 1million ppv's extra by himself.
JimiMak
7/31/07 12:03:56AM

Posted by cmill21

But it's like if you are the boss of a company and you have the absolute best worker that you can hire, but he wants to work on the side a bit for another company. Most companies would say whatever he's going to sell 1million ppv's extra by himself.



Would Stan Lee be allowed to write comics for other companies? NO! Would Bill Gates' top engineer be allowed to work for Mac? NO! Was Hulk Hogan allowed to perform for any others when under contract? NO! Was Tito allowed to work for PRIDE during the dark ages (even tho he made appearance {ie the flowers to Sak and Wandy})? NO! Was Mike Tyson ( in the day) allowed to fight a fight that wasn't promoted by Don King? NO!

I could go on all day. Any worker who brings in that much currency on his own is never allowed non-exclusivity.
cmill21
7/31/07 12:47:04AM
Very different circumstances, the Microsoft tech could be a security issue, Stan Lee was the chairman of Marvel so kind of a bad example, Mike signed a contract with Don King, so he could have signed with someone else if he wanted to, and theres the fact that don king was offering triple what anyone else could. It's not like fedors saying he wants to fight in K-1 or elite xc or another major mma org. He wants to fight in sambo competitions, and theres something in the news section about dana saying he can fight in sambo competitions, but there are regulations about injuries and money being returned. So I guess dana's ok with my idea.
jdubs
7/31/07 12:51:22AM

Posted by JimiMak


Posted by jdubs

dana is expecting all the fighters to kiss his ass, but dana, this is fedor... you work with HIS terms .



No. Fedor is a fighter. Dana is far from his bitch. He's the only person in the world who can stand across the bargaining table and not have to blink. He controls the biggest MMA show on the planet. His attempts to block Fedor fighting would prolly work in most countries (obviously prolly not russia). I don't get how so many ppl think any fighter holds all the cards. Esp when the "average" USA fan still doesnt' knwo him. Promoters are always the boss. Literally and figuritively. You can only ever bargain w/ your boss so much, as is the case here. Next thing you're gonna say is the contract laws don't apply to robots.



fedor has nothing to lose
Jujiden
7/31/07 1:09:59AM
Sometimes I wonder what this is all about. Seeing top fights from top fighters or childish politics? Frankly, I could care less about exclusivity or who holds all the cards or even who gets what. I want to see excellent fights and I honestly don't care how they get them done, just get them done. If Fedor wants to fight Sambo, or his management wants more UFC in Russia, put in a clause that states that as long as Fedor wins, he gets it. If he begins to lose, he gets locked into an exclusivity deal. If he owns the division, why not allow Red Devil members get signed one at a time, but only if they win.

I really don't care who gets paid and who doesn't, fair or not, it's the fight that I want to see and in the end that's all that really matters.

I understand that there will always be politics, but I hope it doesn't prevent the fights that deserve to be fought.
JimiMak
7/31/07 4:43:49PM

Posted by cmill21

Very different circumstances, the Microsoft tech could be a security issue, Stan Lee was the chairman of Marvel so kind of a bad example, Mike signed a contract with Don King, so he could have signed with someone else if he wanted to, and theres the fact that don king was offering triple what anyone else could. It's not like fedors saying he wants to fight in K-1 or elite xc or another major mma org. He wants to fight in sambo competitions, and theres something in the news section about dana saying he can fight in sambo competitions, but there are regulations about injuries and money being returned. So I guess dana's ok with my idea.



That's funny how you say just cuz their jobs are a little different it's not the same. Stan Lee was not alway chairman, in fact he had to file a lawsuit over the fact that his comics were Marvels intellectual property and he originally wasn't making anything compared to what they were off of him. It's a security issue cuz you're having your bread and butter compete against you, is the closest and easiest way to show the microsoft issue. Tyson could've signed a deal w/ someone else, but never could've gotten promoted the same w/o signing the same exclusive contract.

Bottom line is whenever you don't just work for someone, but instead bring in millions of dollars you aren't allowed to work for the comp (and yes they get to define competition). Maybe he will be allowed to do Sambo (doubtful, would def incl fines for getting hurt and maybe even losing) he def won't get a clause where he always has the right to fight in Russia for another org, even a minor one. Maybe he can start his own show in his golden years when he retires from UFC, he better not try now or he loses his credibility.
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