My feeling about Lesnar is that it's true he hadn't earned his shot at the UFC heavyweight title when he stepped into the Octagon against Randy Couture at UFC 91 -- except that Lesnar proved by beating Couture that he did, in fact, belong. So while I think Henderson is basically right that Lesnar got his title shot based on reputation and pay-per-view sales, he earned the title by beating Couture. And with Mir up next, Lesnar is one win away from having erased any questions about his legitimacy once and for all.
Posted by Jackelope
The writer pretty much sums it up
My feeling about Lesnar is that it's true he hadn't earned his shot at the UFC heavyweight title when he stepped into the Octagon against Randy Couture at UFC 91 -- except that Lesnar proved by beating Couture that he did, in fact, belong. So while I think Henderson is basically right that Lesnar got his title shot based on reputation and pay-per-view sales, he earned the title by beating Couture. And with Mir up next, Lesnar is one win away from having erased any questions about his legitimacy once and for all.
That's almost exactly how I feel about Lesnar.
Posted by mkiv9secsupra
Lesnar will be unstoppable at some point but he has soooooo many holes in his game that i can see almost any top HW beat him at the moment
Posted by warglory
Posted by mkiv9secsupra
Lesnar will be unstoppable at some point but he has soooooo many holes in his game that i can see almost any top HW beat him at the moment
Who Kongo? The man would get taken down by Lesnar and annihilated. Big Nog? He would get KOed and Lesnar's wrestling and (hopefully jits defense) would nullify Nog's abilities on the mat.
Te only two heavyweights I see challenging Lesnar right now, besides Mir of course, would be Carwin and Velasquez for obvious reasons; they are big and powerful and won't be bullied on the ground.
Posted by warglory
Posted by mkiv9secsupra
Lesnar will be unstoppable at some point but he has soooooo many holes in his game that i can see almost any top HW beat him at the moment
Who Kongo? The man would get taken down by Lesnar and annihilated. Big Nog? He would get KOed and Lesnar's wrestling and (hopefully jits defense) would nullify Nog's abilities on the mat.
Te only two heavyweights I see challenging Lesnar right now, besides Mir of course, would be Carwin and Velasquez for obvious reasons; they are big and powerful and won't be bullied on the ground.
Posted by mkiv9secsupra
MMAPG's top 10 HWs
1.Fedor Emelianenko
2.Frank Mir
3.Josh Barnett
4. Lesnar
5.Nogueira
6.Couture
7.Carwin
8.Valasquez
9.Overeem
10.Arlovski
Kongo IS NOT in the top 10 and i agree lesnar would make a fool out of him unless brock decided to stand for some reason.
-#1,#2,#3,#5 have such a massive overall grappling advantage Lesnar doesnt stand much of a chance imo.
-Carwin would KO Lesnar 1st round
-Valsquez and Overeem have a massive advantage striking and could nullify Lesnars ground advances and force Lesnar to LnP
The only two top ten i could see Lesnar beating are Couture and Arlovski
just my opinion..... Lesnar's only wins are from stylistically good match ups for him. He still isnt a good striker by any means, and we havent seen anything in the form of subs/defense. We still dont know if he has a decent gas tank....Too many holes to say he is any kind unstoppable force
Posted by mkiv9secsupra
Lesnar will be unstoppable at some point but he has soooooo many holes in his game that i can see almost any top HW beat him at the moment
Posted by wapttn
Posted by mkiv9secsupra
MMAPG's top 10 HWs
1.Fedor Emelianenko
2.Frank Mir
3.Josh Barnett
4. Lesnar
5.Nogueira
6.Couture
7.Carwin
8.Valasquez
9.Overeem
10.Arlovski
Kongo IS NOT in the top 10 and i agree lesnar would make a fool out of him unless brock decided to stand for some reason.
-#1,#2,#3,#5 have such a massive overall grappling advantage Lesnar doesnt stand much of a chance imo.
-Carwin would KO Lesnar 1st round
-Valsquez and Overeem have a massive advantage striking and could nullify Lesnars ground advances and force Lesnar to LnP
The only two top ten i could see Lesnar beating are Couture and Arlovski
just my opinion..... Lesnar's only wins are from stylistically good match ups for him. He still isnt a good striker by any means, and we havent seen anything in the form of subs/defense. We still dont know if he has a decent gas tank....Too many holes to say he is any kind unstoppable force
Mir: Lesnar will beat him standing, and when it does goes to the ground from Mir pulling guard or Lesnar going in for the finish... Lesnar will be far more controlling rather than just trying to donky kong his opponent. I guarantee you lesnar has been drilling sub defense like no other since his first loss and barring an out of left field highlight submission.. lesnar will unify the belts.
Nog: It may have been the staph infection that was rumored, but he looked slack against Mir and one thing that a lot of people are (including myself) speculating is that all the damage he takes every fight is catching up with him. If Mir could knock him down... Lesnar would blast him.
Barnett: would get bullied.. simple as that.
Carwin: would get KOed by lesnar in the first round. Carwin is the only fighter with the same size, and strength advantages as lesnar and who also packs the KO power that comes with XXXXXL gloves. But Carwin gets rocked in almost every one of his fights by hws who are considerably smaller... lesnar would hand his punch and it would be lights out. Also if lesnar decided to... he would be able to dominate on the ground as well because Lesnar is a far better wrestler.
Velasquez has a massive striking advantage? did you see him try to strike with Kongo? Kongo has great standup... but kongo has never been able to embarass anybody on the feet like that in the ufc. Velasquez's standup looks good and sounds cool.. but lesnar would have a distinct advantage on the ground and the ability to get it there
Overeem shouldn't be in this conversation before he competes where he gets tested and beats a top 10.
The only fighter on that list that should be a legitimate favourite is Fedor.. and thats because his style of standup would probably give lesnar trouble... and even if lesnar did get it to the ground, fedor's submission game would probably prevail.
What people dont give brock credit for right now is how effective his standup is. He doesn't have the boxing skills of arlovski or the head movement of couture, but he has what looks like a very solid chin, quick punches, and his hands are so big and he's so strong that if he lands, you're gone. Seriously... look at the punches he's landed standing up... he knocked down mir, broke herring's orbital bone and sent him rolling backwards, and rocked couture twice.... the doode's standup isn't textbook, but every fighter that steps in with him needs to respect it. With that said, right off the bat, i would give the standup advantage to lesnar over every fighter on the top 10 list aside from fedor and that's because fedor's speed and style is something that lesnar would struggle with
With that said, it kinda makes you think that lesnar could sprawl and brawl his way to victory against almost any opponent which is a scary thought considering how hard he hits and how impossible it would be to take him down
Umm...no. Henderson got a shot because he held both the Pride Middleweight and Welterweight(not sure if that's what they called it) titles. He lost the middleweight title in a unification bout to Rampage(awesome 5 round war), dropped down to 185 where he's more comfortable and lost his unification bout to Anderson, who he was dominating for the first round and decided to try and bang with Silva. Brock didn't deserve it at the time, but proved he belongs by decimating Couture.
Posted by Giant_Ochai Henderson earned a title shot by losing. Lesnar at least got a shot coming off of a win.
Posted by wapttn
Velasquez's standup looks good and sounds cool.. but lesnar would have a distinct advantage on the ground and the ability to get it there
Posted by telnights
I train a lot of Pro fighters and I don't see many holes in his game at all so I would like to know what holes you speak of.
Posted by mkiv9secsupra
Posted by warglory
Posted by mkiv9secsupra
Lesnar will be unstoppable at some point but he has soooooo many holes in his game that i can see almost any top HW beat him at the moment
Who Kongo? The man would get taken down by Lesnar and annihilated. Big Nog? He would get KOed and Lesnar's wrestling and (hopefully jits defense) would nullify Nog's abilities on the mat.
Te only two heavyweights I see challenging Lesnar right now, besides Mir of course, would be Carwin and Velasquez for obvious reasons; they are big and powerful and won't be bullied on the ground.
MMAPG's top 10 HWs
1.Fedor Emelianenko
2.Frank Mir
3.Josh Barnett
4. Lesnar
5.Nogueira
6.Couture
7.Carwin
8.Valasquez
9.Overeem
10.Arlovski
Kongo IS NOT in the top 10 and i agree lesnar would make a fool out of him unless brock decided to stand for some reason.
-#1,#2,#3,#5 have such a massive overall grappling advantage Lesnar doesnt stand much of a chance imo.
-Carwin would KO Lesnar 1st round
-Valsquez and Overeem have a massive advantage striking and could nullify Lesnars ground advances and force Lesnar to LnP
The only two top ten i could see Lesnar beating are Couture and Arlovski
just my opinion..... Lesnar's only wins are from stylistically good match ups for him. He still isnt a good striker by any means, and we havent seen anything in the form of subs/defense. We still dont know if he has a decent gas tank....Too many holes to say he is any kind unstoppable force
Posted by mrsmiley
I don't really know how many stats you can acredit to Brock without his size advantage giving him that huge push.
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Posted by Rush
Posted by mrsmiley
I don't really know how many stats you can acredit to Brock without his size advantage giving him that huge push.
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Good post overall.
I do want to comment on this because I touched on it in another thread. I'm not sure if you read it. I think the aspect of size is kind of moot when it comes to HWs. First of all, the fact that Brock is big kind of makes eventual criticism of his putative technique inevitable. Throughout my martial arts experience (12 years+) I have seen this type of criticism over and over again. Big guys always get burned, regardless of their skill, because of the sole fact that they are big and strong and are therefore accused of using that over technique. I think at some point you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Last time I checked things like size and speed are assets to MMA (pretty much any sport). So how come guys in the smaller weight divisions get credited for their size, strength and/or speed, but a HW is criticized for it?
Also, as I said in the other thread, you have small HWs and you have big HWs. There is nothing holding the smaller HWs back from bulking up to try and get a strength or size advantage. Instead, some choose to stay on the smaller side in favour of agility and speed.