The Current State of the Gracie's: Name bigger than skill?

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POLL: Are the Gracie's as good as their name dictates?
Yes, they are the Gracie's after all 19% (7)
No, their time has passed and their last name is carrying them 61% (22)
Grey Area (explain your stance) 19% (7)
jiujitsufreak74
2/8/10 6:21:40PM
I think so. Rolles Gracie's embarrassing loss was just the icing on the cake for me. Aside from Roger, the Gracie's aren't topping the lists of grappling tournaments the way the used too and their name over exudes their actual skill at this point in time. now, i am not saying to disregard everything they have done for JJ and the sport of MMA, rather i am saying that people are putting too much emphasis on their last name than on the skills of the current Gracie's.

So my question to you guys is: what do you think? are the Gracie's just as dominant as they used to be? have they fallen from grace? or is their some grey area?
RyanC
2/8/10 6:27:48PM
I think the name still carries a lot of weight in the BJJ community, but in MMA it ain't worth a whole lot these days. They are still doing a lot for BJJ in my opinion because they are still teaching, and there are many Gracie disciples that are very prominant competitors in BJJ and grappling tourney's throughout the world. There are also a lot of former Gracie students who now have schools of their own and are training fighters who are very good in MMA.

I guess I think there is some grey area. The Gracie's are not the competitors that they once were, but they are still influencing BJJ, and MMA in other ways.
Fish_Hook
2/8/10 6:58:20PM
They are well past their prime. Roger has a chance to be legit tho. Unless they start learning other aspects of mma, they are going the way of the birds. People outside the family know what jui jitsu is now. The legacy will always live on...but its time to step it up, or step down.
StorminYourman
2/8/10 7:25:57PM
Well if Rolles trained corectly for this it might have been different but gassing in round 1 in the UFC makes it a pretty good chance you might not get too many phone calls for another fight.
Their BJJ is still always legit and most of the big names in the grappling scene can have their black belts traced back to a Gracie competitor.
As for their MMA, well besides Renzo the rest of them need to adapt their style to fit in the way MMA is scored and the rules that are used.Also conditioning would not hurt either.
marcoDGK
2/8/10 7:43:26PM
Good question. I was kind of thinking that to my self after I heard that Rolles lost. It made me wonder if the name should still pack the same punch. Right off the bat I made up excuses for Rolles saying he didn't train for that figther and that figther was a big step up from what the one he expect to fight already... that's just me huggin gracie nuts... haha

I use to idolize Royce Gracie back in the day. I was about 15 years old and I thought he was the best and would always be the best hands down. Now, I realize the times/sport has changed and being only a dominant JJ guy isn’t enough anymore.
Their schools obviously are doing great. You can use Nate Diaz and Nick Diaz as an example. They always plug their Gracie JJ after they win/as their training.

In any case, I don’t think the last name is enough to make you a good fighter. They will produce good fighters as long as the fighter has the all around skills to become one.
jae_1833
2/8/10 8:04:25PM
I think that their technique is wonderful, but that their training overall is probably pretty crappy. Gracie's typically lack stand up, speed, and power. The BJJ is always great but they lack an overall MMA game nowadays. Someone already mentioned that the rest of the fighter's are learning BJJ, but for some reason the Gracie's aren't learning any other diciplines.
jiujitsufreak74
2/8/10 8:08:38PM
even in the world of grappling i feel that they are no longer as dominant as they once were. yes, the top grapplers now can trace back to Gracie trainers, but the actual Gracie's themselves don't hold the reigns the way they used to in either submission grappling or MMA (MMA more so). i realized that in picking Rolles' fight i saw the name Gracie and i automatically said, oh, his submission game is world class he should get the submission. but i realize that this logic is a fallacy and i wanted to know if anyone else feels the same way...apparently people do haha
kopower
2/8/10 8:20:29PM
I was guilty of just looking at the last name and picking Gracie by 1st round sub. One could argue the Gracie's were the pioneers of bjj and were the main reason why mma is what it has become. I agree with others thinking that the majority of Gracie's haven't trained enough in the other disciplins of mma and have been passed by. It could also be that they never were very athletic to begin with and that's why bjj worked so well with them. They could just take the fight to the floor and void their opponents athleticism.

Kind of weird how the Gracie family was beating everybody with bjj because their opponents were one dimensional, to the present where their opponents are beating up on the Gracie's that are one dimensional
sbulldavid
2/8/10 10:44:08PM
Has anybody ever seen a Gracie that was in shape. I think a lot of the problem is that the Gracies were great with the Gi and never evolved as others have . I really don't understand why they always seem soft and out of shape, or why they can't learn to punch or kick. Royce never beat anybody at the level of today's fighters.
StorminYourman
2/8/10 11:53:37PM

Posted by sbulldavid

Has anybody ever seen a Gracie that was in shape. I think a lot of the problem is that the Gracies were great with the Gi and never evolved as others have . I really don't understand why they always seem soft and out of shape, or why they can't learn to punch or kick. Royce never beat anybody at the level of today's fighters.


Renzo comes in shape all the time.Also the man can strike.


psted by jjfreak74
even in the world of grappling i feel that they are no longer as dominant as they once were. yes, the top grapplers now can trace back to Gracie trainers, but the actual Gracie's themselves don't hold the reigns the way they used to in either submission grappling or MMA (MMA more so). i realized that in picking Rolles' fight i saw the name Gracie and i automatically said, oh, his submission game is world class he should get the submission. but i realize that this logic is a fallacy and i wanted to know if anyone else feels the same way...apparently people do haha


I actally picked Beltran because Rolles seemed to have a somewhat padded 3-0 record.Also Beltran seems real hungry.I feel that in MMA,Judo and submission grappling has become more of an athletic competition then just knoledge of body mechanics.Not really too favorable for a man who gasses in the first five minutes.
TimW001
2/9/10 12:02:42AM
Here's the difference between now and UFC 1. A guy like Beltran can defend a RnC. Gracies rely on JJ, they see it as teh ultimate. And it is not. It is one of the greatest styles. But you need to encompass it with others.

The Gracies taught everyone that they needed JJ, they they should learn that they need striking.
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
2/9/10 12:17:41AM

Posted by sbulldavid

Has anybody ever seen a Gracie that was in shape. I think a lot of the problem is that the Gracies were great with the Gi and never evolved as others have .



Rickson was a physical specimen ...




And Roger gracie is the best grappler on the planet right now , he is smoking everyone with and without a gi . He would also take out a lot of the top guys in mma imo .




The gracie name is doing just fine .
NatedawgThaM
2/9/10 1:21:54AM
I do think because he didn't train that good that contributed to that completely pitiful performance by Rolles, but I still agree their name is definitely surpassing their skills for right now.

If Roger would have kept going he could have made a great name in MMA against for Gracies. He is still a beast BJJ guy beating the likes of Jacare who's regarded as one of the best grapplers in the world today.
jiujitsufreak74
2/9/10 11:43:24AM

Posted by AnDeRsonDaSiLvA

Rickson was a physical specimen ...

And Roger gracie is the best grappler on the planet right now , he is smoking everyone with and without a gi . He would also take out a lot of the top guys in mma imo .

The gracie name is doing just fine .



Roger is great, but not the greatest. i would rank Marcelo Garcia, Braulio Estima and Xande slightly above him due to size differences. and even with Roger being great and Rickson being in shape, they are just two out of many Gracie's. The Gracie's used to dominate JJ, now they only really have Roger competing and the highest level.
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
2/9/10 4:46:48PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74

Roger is great, but not the greatest. i would rank Marcelo Garcia, Braulio Estima and Xande slightly above him due to size differences. and even with Roger being great and Rickson being in shape, they are just two out of many Gracie's. The Gracie's used to dominate JJ, now they only really have Roger competing and the highest level.



Roger gracie is 5-3 against xande , with all his losses to points and he triangled xande in the pan ams(gi) and rear naked choked him at the adcc(nogi) .They are very close in weight , so its hard for me to call xande the better grappler . Also one of xande's win on points was fairly controversial as roger locked up an armbar with a couple seconds left and some people think xande tapped . Roger also had the most impressive run in any adcc to date , taping aoki , werdum , xande and jacare back to back to back to back. He also broke jacares arm from an armlock from the guard in the 2004 mundials , but jacare refused to tapp and kept running away out of bounds for the remainder of the match until he got a win on points .

In terms of pound for pound best grappler right now , I would label Braulio the best right now and a notch above marcelo (even though hes heavier) as hes tapped him twice ( triangle in a gi , rear naked choke without a gi) .
warglory
2/9/10 5:04:27PM
Roger is 2-0 in MMA, that's it. I don't think anyone can say that Roger is a top MMA fighter with that record against the guys he's fought. And it terms of MMA, Rickson can hardly lay claim to being the best at anything with the guys he fought.

Roger is a great BJJ practitioner, and Rickson was apparently amazing at challenge matches outside of the sport fighting like MMA, but neither has bragging rights to what they have accomplished in MMA.

The most successful Gracie I have seen in MMA is Renzo, and that's because the guy knows that MMA isn't BJJ. Once Gracies start thinking like MMA fighters (like Renzo), as opposed to legacy hunters, I think they'll start making progress in MMA again.

RhythmAndStyle
2/9/10 5:29:00PM
their time has past..the only reason they get to fight in big name org. is cause of they're last name..but half of these gracie aren't where they once were..i'm not sure maybe it's cause alot of mma fighters know b.j.j. and are able to defend submission attempts..but i just don't see the gracie where they once were..they kinda fell off the map to me..as of recent they haven't lived up to their skills..imo i'll take alexandre ribeiro over any gracie in mma right now...
EvenFlow
2/9/10 7:37:51PM
Roger Gracie is arguably the best grappler in the world, if he dedicated himself 100% to MMA I'm confident he could make a serious impact in the sport as could Kyra Gracie with that same attitude of evolving and not acting like another Royce and Rolles where they just wanna try it thinking thier style is the only style for the sport when its been proven time again that you need it all.
MMAPump
2/10/10 1:58:10PM
I agree with what some other people have said. I think the Gracie's are still excellent BJJ practitioners, but in terms of their overall MMA abilities, most other fighters have surpassed them.
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