CSAC: Gracie's Results Off The Chart.
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CSAC: Gracie's Results Off The Chart.
MisFiT
6/19/07 5:57:09AM
In the wake of Royce Gracie's (Pictures) positive test for steroids, the California State Athletic Commission released details Monday that the Brazilian mixed martial arts icon showed such elevated levels of Nandrolone, a common anabolic steroid, that it could not be registered by the testing lab.
Link.
Rush
6/19/07 7:04:58AM
Ok, now I'm confused. The first article said trace amounts and now this one says the complete opposite. I don't get it...
cincyassasin
6/19/07 7:09:51AM
I don'y buy it.......somethin fishy goin on
Stickan
6/19/07 7:23:10AM
Thanks for the link.
Just the thought of Royce taking steroids and thereby risking his family name and reputation makes the whole thing unbelievable to me.
Yet it seems very legit and hopefully he'll get repremanded by both the commission and his relatives.
Just the thought of Royce taking steroids and thereby risking his family name and reputation makes the whole thing unbelievable to me.
Yet it seems very legit and hopefully he'll get repremanded by both the commission and his relatives.
Fanboy 1988
6/19/07 7:43:47AM
For a guy that juiced up he's damn small!
MMA_Needs_Mayhem
6/19/07 7:54:10AM
Posted by Fanboy 1988
For a guy that juiced up he's damn small!
I wouldn't say that, for that fight he looked a little more defined and bigger than previous fights such as Hughes. He looks skinnier in the past than this fight, these testing results may be the answer to that conundrum.
hunterlcs92
6/19/07 8:23:40AM
personally i think it might be some meds hes taking. messing up your name in his situation is to big a risk
Signal2112
6/19/07 8:25:01AM
Conflicting reports, hmm....
ArtGuy
6/19/07 8:42:01AM
They wrote the first article before the commission released specifics. The fact is he cheated and should be ashamed. 
fatdevil1982
6/19/07 9:30:32AM
i dont know wheather or not its true, but
yes he did look much more defined than normal
some steroids dont build muscle, they help heal it, so now you can get longer and harder work outs
as far as his family name, if he did then wow, his family will be pissed
i personaly dont think he would, but maybe K-1 put alot of pressure on him to "put on a good show" and he felt getting a little more defined would help
i guess we will get the whole truth in time
yes he did look much more defined than normal
some steroids dont build muscle, they help heal it, so now you can get longer and harder work outs
as far as his family name, if he did then wow, his family will be pissed
i personaly dont think he would, but maybe K-1 put alot of pressure on him to "put on a good show" and he felt getting a little more defined would help
i guess we will get the whole truth in time
Rush
6/19/07 10:02:29AM
Posted by ArtGuy
They wrote the first article before the commission released specifics. The fact is he cheated and should be ashamed.
Specifics would be the amount that was detected. The difference between traces and off the charts is not a matter of specifics.
There is also another part to the story and it extends to other steroid tests in MMA and other sports. Some guys test positive for steroids because their trainers spike their drinks/food without the athlete knowing about it.
I'm not saying that Royce is/isn't guilty, but the whole situation is really not making sense to me. Just like Lance Armstrong. This might be the last fight in Royce's career, why would he taint a really good record/reputation. I unsderstand some of the younger generation being tempted to take steroids, but Royce's career is coming to an end.
For you conspiracy theorists out there, it is also possible that opponents of MMA might be using any tool they can get their hands on to lower the image of MMA.
cincyassasin
6/19/07 11:06:25AM
Nandrolone is a weird substance folks. Just to give you an idea of what you're dealing with, here's a little reminder of a previous incident involving Nandrolone.
"Although his debut ended in success – Marquardt earned a decision victory over UFC veteran Ivan Salaverry – post-fight drug testing controversy led to Marquardt's suspension by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. Marquardt tested positive for high levels of nandrolone, which led the commission to file for his suspension. Marquardt maintains that he only used over-the-counter supplements in preparation for his fight – a claim which seems to have been affirmed by a follow-up drug test that found Marquardt to be free of illegal substances. Regardless, Marquardt's suspension was lifted in January 2006.[8]"
Source: Nate Marquardt's Wikipedia entry (if that's not concrete enough you can verify it through several online MMA sources).
Now if this were Boldenone, you can say everything you want to say without any remorse. If it were stanozolol you can say what you will but there are sometimes circumstances where its use can be justified (If I remember correctly, it's often used as a theraputic treatment for fighters that undergo surgery, possibly in combination with other drugs for a speedier recovery).
Before we start putting the Gracie legacy into question lets take his word until proven undoubtably.
"Although his debut ended in success – Marquardt earned a decision victory over UFC veteran Ivan Salaverry – post-fight drug testing controversy led to Marquardt's suspension by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. Marquardt tested positive for high levels of nandrolone, which led the commission to file for his suspension. Marquardt maintains that he only used over-the-counter supplements in preparation for his fight – a claim which seems to have been affirmed by a follow-up drug test that found Marquardt to be free of illegal substances. Regardless, Marquardt's suspension was lifted in January 2006.[8]"
Source: Nate Marquardt's Wikipedia entry (if that's not concrete enough you can verify it through several online MMA sources).
Now if this were Boldenone, you can say everything you want to say without any remorse. If it were stanozolol you can say what you will but there are sometimes circumstances where its use can be justified (If I remember correctly, it's often used as a theraputic treatment for fighters that undergo surgery, possibly in combination with other drugs for a speedier recovery).
Before we start putting the Gracie legacy into question lets take his word until proven undoubtably.
Image Attachment(s):
waylon_o
6/19/07 11:15:56AM
I know Royce wouldn't knowingly do this to me! I'm praying that somethings fishy...but by the looks of it, he cheated 
. I'm heartbroken.
. I'm heartbroken.
rcg916
6/19/07 11:36:05AM
Posted by cincyassasin
Nandrolone is a weird substance folks. Just to give you an idea of what you're dealing with, here's a little reminder of a previous incident involving Nandrolone.
"Although his debut ended in success – Marquardt earned a decision victory over UFC veteran Ivan Salaverry – post-fight drug testing controversy led to Marquardt's suspension by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. Marquardt tested positive for high levels of nandrolone, which led the commission to file for his suspension. Marquardt maintains that he only used over-the-counter supplements in preparation for his fight – a claim which seems to have been affirmed by a follow-up drug test that found Marquardt to be free of illegal substances. Regardless, Marquardt's suspension was lifted in January 2006.[8]"
Source: Nate Marquardt's Wikipedia entry (if that's not concrete enough you can verify it through several online MMA sources).
Now if this were Boldenone, you can say everything you want to say without any remorse. If it were stanozolol you can say what you will but there are sometimes circumstances where its use can be justified (If I remember correctly, it's often used as a theraputic treatment for fighters that undergo surgery, possibly in combination with other drugs for a speedier recovery).
Before we start putting the Gracie legacy into question lets take his word until proven undoubtably.
Nah, theres no reason to hold one fighter above another where this is concerned. The fact that Renzo already spoke on it leads me to believe that he knows more than hes saying. Gracie or not, he should be held accountable.
Rush
6/19/07 12:00:20PM
If these guys are only using over the counter legal substances, they should test the effects of the substances that they are using on nandrolone levels.
It's a no-brainer.
It's a no-brainer.
fatdevil1982
6/19/07 12:20:15PM
Nandrolone use is indirectly detectable in urine tests by testing for the presence of 19-norandrosterone, a metabolite of this molecule. The International Olympic Committee has set a limit of 2 ng per ml of urine as the upper limit, beyond which an athlete is suspected of doping.
Urine analysis as a method of detecting nandrolone abuse has recently become somewhat controversial, following studies by the University of Aberdeen showing that the metabolite product can also show up in urine in quantities above the upper limit from a combination of high-protein diets utilising the legal nutritional supplement creatine and hard cardiovascular exercise. The reason for this unexpected result has not been determined. Another possible (though unlikely) reason for a false positive result is the consumption of beef from cattle treated with steroids including nandrolone (used in overturning the verdict against the bobsleigh racer, Lenny Paul). Heavy consumption of the essential amino acid lysine (as indicated in the treatment of cold sores) has also shown false positives in some and was cited by American Shotputter C.J. Hunter as the reason for his positive test. A final possible cause of incorrect urine test results is the presence of metabolites from other anabolic steroids. As a result of the numerous overturned verdicts, the testing procedure was reviewed by UK Sport [1] in 2000.
Urine analysis as a method of detecting nandrolone abuse has recently become somewhat controversial, following studies by the University of Aberdeen showing that the metabolite product can also show up in urine in quantities above the upper limit from a combination of high-protein diets utilising the legal nutritional supplement creatine and hard cardiovascular exercise. The reason for this unexpected result has not been determined. Another possible (though unlikely) reason for a false positive result is the consumption of beef from cattle treated with steroids including nandrolone (used in overturning the verdict against the bobsleigh racer, Lenny Paul). Heavy consumption of the essential amino acid lysine (as indicated in the treatment of cold sores) has also shown false positives in some and was cited by American Shotputter C.J. Hunter as the reason for his positive test. A final possible cause of incorrect urine test results is the presence of metabolites from other anabolic steroids. As a result of the numerous overturned verdicts, the testing procedure was reviewed by UK Sport [1] in 2000.
silverbullet
6/19/07 12:56:35PM
Posted by fatdevil1982
i dont know wheather or not its true, but
yes he did look much more defined than normal
some steroids dont build muscle, they help heal it, so now you can get longer and harder work outs
as far as his family name, if he did then wow, his family will be pissed
i personaly dont think he would, but maybe K-1 put alot of pressure on him to "put on a good show" and he felt getting a little more defined would help
i guess we will get the whole truth in time
You have to understand that you only need traces of a controlled substance in your blood for it to be "off the charts". Even when the steroid is "off the charts" for a specific blood/urine test, there is still only a "trace" of it in your blood.
nubby
6/19/07 1:51:23PM
I don't believe he took steroids knowingly. I don't even know this guy but for some reason I just think that something seems out of place.
JBatch
6/19/07 4:38:45PM
Posted by Fanboy 1988
For a guy that juiced up he's damn small!
He went from being a scrawny 160 to a bigger 183 at that fight. He did not look jacked but it doesn't mean he didn't partake in a little juicing.
Fanboy 1988
6/19/07 6:04:32PM
Posted by JBatch
Posted by Fanboy 1988
For a guy that juiced up he's damn small!
He went from being a scrawny 160 to a bigger 183 at that fight. He did not look jacked but it doesn't mean he didn't partake in a little juicing.
True..... I just figured someone literally juiced off the charts would just look bigger then he is..
MrGreeny
6/19/07 8:44:06PM
Maybe it's a mistake, maybe not. I think, that since this was his last fight they will cover the case, say it's beef or something else. I really don't care.
Whatever it is i beg you PLEEEAASE don't post pictures of the Gracie family. They may have beautyfull BJJ but they are sooo ugly...
Whatever it is i beg you PLEEEAASE don't post pictures of the Gracie family. They may have beautyfull BJJ but they are sooo ugly...
Rush
6/19/07 10:34:18PM
Posted by JBatch
He went from being a scrawny 160 to a bigger 183 at that fight. He did not look jacked but it doesn't mean he didn't partake in a little juicing.
I've never heard of Royce being 160 even back in the UFC 1 days.
wrestler189
6/19/07 11:23:37PM
i want to know the truth about the situation
grappler0000
6/20/07 7:04:35AM
Posted by Rush
Posted by JBatch
He went from being a scrawny 160 to a bigger 183 at that fight. He did not look jacked but it doesn't mean he didn't partake in a little juicing.
I've never heard of Royce being 160 even back in the UFC 1 days.
They scrapped the 160 limit for the Hughes/Gracie fight, which is why it wasn't a title fight...he weighed in at like 165 or 167 for that one.
KingKash
6/20/07 7:07:05AM
There may never be a truth to this situation, Gracie may take the fine and suspention and still hold that he is innocent to the public. This is not the first fighter this has happend to and it will nto be that last, but for it tohappen to a fighter of such importants to the history of MMA it is a big deal. Stephan Bonner got hit after his second loss to Forest and I have not heard anyone talk about that, but this will follow Royce for the rest of his career, even IF he is found innocent of the whole thing.
Rush
6/20/07 8:00:53AM
Posted by grappler0000
They scrapped the 160 limit for the Hughes/Gracie fight, which is why it wasn't a title fight...he weighed in at like 165 or 167 for that one.
I think you're misunderstanding this.
Hughes is a WW, which is 170, and the weight was scrapped because Gracie could not make 170. The fight was fought at the catchweight of 175 lbs. I think Hughes said he gave up 5-10 lbs for that fight.
Rush
6/20/07 8:03:26AM
Posted by silverbullet
You have to understand that you only need traces of a controlled substance in your blood for it to be "off the charts". Even when the steroid is "off the charts" for a specific blood/urine test, there is still only a "trace" of it in your blood.
Read the article again.
fatdevil1982
6/20/07 8:13:27AM
normal is 2ng (i would assume nanograms) his test, according to sherdog and there source, was 50ng.
now in mot sure how this will take affesct but he was taking over the counter suppliments; creatine, muscle milk ex ex ex
and these suppliment, cardio workouts, and other simple things can cause false positives for this drug because it is a drug that is produced normaly in the body.
nandralone is what he tested positive for
from WIKI
Nandrolone use is indirectly detectable in urine tests by testing for the presence of 19-norandrosterone, a metabolite of this molecule. The International Olympic Committee has set a limit of 2 ng per ml of urine as the upper limit, beyond which an athlete is suspected of doping.
Urine analysis as a method of detecting nandrolone abuse has recently become somewhat controversial, following studies by the University of Aberdeen showing that the metabolite product can also show up in urine in quantities above the upper limit from a combination of high-protein diets utilising the legal nutritional supplement creatine and hard cardiovascular exercise. The reason for this unexpected result has not been determined. Another possible (though unlikely) reason for a false positive result is the consumption of beef from cattle treated with steroids including nandrolone (used in overturning the verdict against the bobsleigh racer, Lenny Paul). Heavy consumption of the essential amino acid lysine (as indicated in the treatment of cold sores) has also shown false positives in some and was cited by American Shotputter C.J. Hunter as the reason for his positive test. A final possible cause of incorrect urine test results is the presence of metabolites from other anabolic steroids. As a result of the numerous overturned verdicts, the testing procedure was reviewed by UK Sport [1] in 2000.
now in mot sure how this will take affesct but he was taking over the counter suppliments; creatine, muscle milk ex ex ex
and these suppliment, cardio workouts, and other simple things can cause false positives for this drug because it is a drug that is produced normaly in the body.
nandralone is what he tested positive for
from WIKI
Nandrolone use is indirectly detectable in urine tests by testing for the presence of 19-norandrosterone, a metabolite of this molecule. The International Olympic Committee has set a limit of 2 ng per ml of urine as the upper limit, beyond which an athlete is suspected of doping.
Urine analysis as a method of detecting nandrolone abuse has recently become somewhat controversial, following studies by the University of Aberdeen showing that the metabolite product can also show up in urine in quantities above the upper limit from a combination of high-protein diets utilising the legal nutritional supplement creatine and hard cardiovascular exercise. The reason for this unexpected result has not been determined. Another possible (though unlikely) reason for a false positive result is the consumption of beef from cattle treated with steroids including nandrolone (used in overturning the verdict against the bobsleigh racer, Lenny Paul). Heavy consumption of the essential amino acid lysine (as indicated in the treatment of cold sores) has also shown false positives in some and was cited by American Shotputter C.J. Hunter as the reason for his positive test. A final possible cause of incorrect urine test results is the presence of metabolites from other anabolic steroids. As a result of the numerous overturned verdicts, the testing procedure was reviewed by UK Sport [1] in 2000.
Rush
6/20/07 8:15:37AM
Posted by fatdevil1982
normal is 2ng (i would assume nanograms) his test, according to sherdog and there source, was 50ng.
now in mot sure how this will take affesct but he was taking over the counter suppliments; creatine, muscle milk ex ex ex
and these suppliment, cardio workouts, and other simple things can cause false positives for this drug because it is a drug that is produced normaly in the body.
This is why I stated earlier in this thread that I think this needs to be investigated.
MisFiT
6/20/07 8:43:53AM
This shits really gettin outta hand. Why cant he just smoke weed like Diaz instead of this. Works just as good (as you saw) 
And it isnt as detectable. 
And it isnt as detectable.