CRAZINESS! Lyoto Machida Turns Down Title Shot, Jon Jones To Face Vitor Belfort At UFC 152

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State_Champ
8/24/12 8:17:37AM
So few people calling Lyoto a coward for turning down the fight, but Jones was painted as a coward all day yesterday for not fighting Chael....
lohmann
8/24/12 8:26:34AM
Reportedly, Lorenzo Fertitta alerted Lance Pugmire of the LA Times Shogun Rua also turned down a fight against Jones for UFC 152.

@lorenzofertitta tells me Shogun Rua also turned down shot at Jones to set up Belfort as Sept. 22 opponent. ... Fertitta says, "Thank god Belfort is from the same generation as LIDDELL, Hughes, etc. REAL fighter!"

link


Posted by State_Champ

So few people calling Lyoto a coward for turning down the fight, but Jones was painted as a coward all day yesterday for not fighting Chael....



I do not think Jones is a coward for turning down late replacements, but there is an obvious difference between a fighter that has no camp set up turning down a fight against somebody that already knows how to beat him and someone who is at least physically prepared.

bigrand826
8/24/12 8:32:41AM

Posted by State_Champ

So few people calling Lyoto a coward for turning down the fight, but Jones was painted as a coward all day yesterday for not fighting Chael....



Because they are very different situations. Jones was already scheduled and would have been fighting a guy that has a similar skillset (but less dangerous) to the guy he was already preparing for and the fill-in hadn't been training. Machida was already told he's getting a title shot and he'd be the one taking the fight without a full training camp. Having already been in the cage with Jones, he doesn't benefit from the short notice like he normally would. Also, Machida turning down the fight didn't ultimately kill a card. I don't like that Machida turned it down, but I can certainly see more justification for that decision than Jones' decision to not face an untrained, unprepared Chael.
Boo_Radley21
8/24/12 8:37:46AM
Right on, Belfort by KO
bigrand826
8/24/12 8:38:12AM

Posted by lohmann

Reportedly, Lorenzo Fertitta alerted Lance Pugmire of the LA Times Shogun Rua also turned down a fight against Jones for UFC 152.

@lorenzofertitta tells me Shogun Rua also turned down shot at Jones to set up Belfort as Sept. 22 opponent. ... Fertitta says, "Thank god Belfort is from the same generation as LIDDELL, Hughes, etc. REAL fighter!"

link


Posted by State_Champ

So few people calling Lyoto a coward for turning down the fight, but Jones was painted as a coward all day yesterday for not fighting Chael....



I do not think Jones is a coward for turning down late replacements, but there is an obvious difference between a fighter that has no camp set up turning down a fight against somebody that already knows how to beat him and someone who is at least physically prepared.




Yeah, I had read this as well. And I agree, the situations are quite different. Jones was already in fight-shape and had prepared for a fighter with a similar skillset to the late replacement who would be coming in with little to no training. Machida was not already in camp mode and thus would be at a disadvantage as far as preparation.
kopower
8/24/12 8:44:06AM
Still don't understand all the hate for Jones. Like I said in a different thread, he possibly could have fought Chael, without the belt on the line. In no way has Chael earned a title shot against Jones. It sucks the card was scrapped, but it was Hendo that was injured, and Jones chose not to take another fight. He has that right. Sure he didn't win any fans, and pissed the UFC brass off, but oh well. Jon is the one that would have to deal with any potential injuries, and it would be a no win situation for him, except maybe for gaining more respect from a few of his naysayers.
george112
8/24/12 9:01:22AM

Posted by kopower

Still don't understand all the hate for Jones. Like I said in a different thread, he possibly could have fought Chael, without the belt on the line. In no way has Chael earned a title shot against Jones. It sucks the card was scrapped, but it was Hendo that was injured, and Jones chose not to take another fight. He has that right. Sure he didn't win any fans, and pissed the UFC brass off, but oh well. Jon is the one that would have to deal with any potential injuries, and it would be a no win situation for him, except maybe for gaining more respect from a few of his naysayers.




The hate stems from the fact that he potentially could have saved the card and gotten everyone payed . Not to mention the impact it had on the fans . I don't know if you read how it effected prozac but hes lucky he got his money back. There has to be atleast some people that weren't so lucky
40ouncetofreedom
8/24/12 9:09:20AM
I don't blame Machida,I mean taking a fight on less than a months notice with Bones Jones isn't something i'd favor either,Factor in gettiing in fight shape plus training and studying the last fight,Not a lot of time for a big fight like that,

Bones is getting well deserved shit for turning down a fight on 8 days notice with a 185 not in fighting shape Sonnen,As well as ruining an entire card for other undercard guys.

So now Jones gets another 185 guy who hasn't fought at 205 in forever,works out like a true Jackson gameplan.........Safe.
george112
8/24/12 9:16:38AM

Posted by iwannabesedated

I don't blame Machida,I mean taking a fight on less than a months notice with Bones Jones isn't something i'd favor either,Factor in gettiing in fight shape plus training and studying the last fight,Not a lot of time for a big fight like that,

Bones is getting well deserved shit for turning down a fight on 8 days notice with a 185 not in fighting shape Sonnen,As well as ruining an entire card for other undercard guys.

So now Jones gets another 185 guy who hasn't fought at 205 in forever,works out like a true Jackson gameplan.........Safe.


Safe
kopower
8/24/12 9:20:50AM

Posted by george112


Posted by kopower

Still don't understand all the hate for Jones. Like I said in a different thread, he possibly could have fought Chael, without the belt on the line. In no way has Chael earned a title shot against Jones. It sucks the card was scrapped, but it was Hendo that was injured, and Jones chose not to take another fight. He has that right. Sure he didn't win any fans, and pissed the UFC brass off, but oh well. Jon is the one that would have to deal with any potential injuries, and it would be a no win situation for him, except maybe for gaining more respect from a few of his naysayers.




The hate stems from the fact that he potentially could have saved the card and gotten everyone payed . Not to mention the impact it had on the fans . I don't know if you read how it effected prozac but hes lucky he got his money back. There has to be atleast some people that weren't so lucky



I haven't really had the chance to read about the whole situation, but was it reported anywhere that Jon was told about the situation?
DancingDoll
8/24/12 9:28:58AM
I'm not surprised that Machida turned it down. He's a conservative fighter when it comes to prep times and training camps. Plus right now he's out on some farm in Brazil. It would be quite a scramble to rush to be ready for 152.

Not impressed with Jones, and I've been one to defend him before. I kind of lost some respect for him with ducking the fight and cancelling the card. He had a great opportunity here to win over a lot of fans and prove his mettle as a real 'fighter', instead of a businessman that happens to be wearing a belt. The effects of pissing off the organization, Dana, fans, and his fellow fighters just isn't worth it over the long term as far as career viability goes.

As far as fights go, Jon Jones really has an unproven chin. Machida has been the only one to really rock him, so now I'm hoping that Vitor gets into the sweet spot and knocks him out. I wouldn't discount him in this one. With all the press and behind the scenes accusations and dark mood with Dana/fighters/fans, it has to affect Jones' confidence and outlook, especially with the fight now just a few weeks away. And Belfort really has nothing to lose and will be getting the lion's share of support that night. A shake up is definitely possible.
DancingDoll
8/24/12 9:35:35AM

Posted by kopower



I haven't really had the chance to read about the whole situation, but was it reported anywhere that Jon was told about the situation?



Yeah, Dana was quoted in the press conference as saying that Jones knew the card would be cancelled if they couldn't find a way to make the fight happen.

Jackson was later quoted as saying they didn't know.

It makes sense that he would know, however. I'm sure Dana was using this point as leverage to try to push him to accept the fight even up to the last minute. It could be that the Jones camp just thought he was bluffing though.
Bythar
8/24/12 9:53:47AM

Posted by Poor_Franklin

1. what happens w/ belcher?

2. can all the people who hated on shogun for turning down the Teixera fight please direct that same anger & hatred towards machida, please?



To be fair, this is completely different. Why would Shogun want to fight Teixera? He has one win in the UFC, versus Kyle Kingsbury. He is a lower ranked guy, and a lose lose for Shogun.

With Machida, this is win win. He gets to fight for the belt (which I can only assume is his ambition), and if he loses, he took it on short notice (if at 151) or semi-short notice (if at 152).

I can completely understand Shogun's call, but am somewhat baffled by Machida. I hope he releases a statement at some point.
hymiekooken
8/24/12 9:56:51AM
This has to be the craziest series of events in the UFC ever. With that being said, I like the Jones Belfort fight. Jones will be bigger, stronger, and a lot younger. But you can never, ever count out the Phenom. If Jonny boy thinks this is a safe fight for him, he is in for a nasty suprise. Vitor, who has been fighting at mw, will have little or no weight cut to worry about. He is older, but he isn't that old yet, and imo has the ability to catch Jones with a brutal ko, especially if Jones starts some of that wacky spinning shit he does. Oh yea, I am 100 percent behind Vitor, make him wish he would have taken the Sonnen fight. Going out on a limb here, but Vitor is and has always been my guy, Jonny boys days as champ are numbered !!!! Belfort by ko !!! Go Vitor !!!
Shawn91111
8/24/12 10:00:26AM
For a fair fight it should be Old Vitor and New Vitor vs Jones
hymiekooken
8/24/12 10:14:59AM
Mabye Dana should have called up Ronda Rousey and offered her the Jones fight. She probably would have taken it.
MALICE
8/24/12 10:40:10AM
Wow, good for Belfort. Not my first pick. 20 probably made the best point. Let Jones sit until this chaotic roller coaster slows down.

A few years back, fighters did not care about training camps. If an opportunity presented itself, or an opponent was injured at the last minute, someone would fill in and the fight would go on. Much respect to the fighters who still have this attitude.

I can understand wanting a full training camp before a fight. That is a smart move. But all of this, "I was training for a different style," attitude has become a little ridiculous. GSP, Hughes, Liddell, Couture, Franklin, Wanderlei, Henderson, Noguiera, etc. would not turn down a fight for that reason. The sport is changing. Politics > Pride
icantthinkofanything
8/24/12 10:58:09AM
this is a cool change. Anderson would have been the best, and the fact that he wants the fight, they should drop Vitor and have Silva fight Jones on whatever date posssible.

is it just me, or does it seem like starting with Chael, that MW's are being chosen as backup fighters over lhw's, that must prove that lhw's want no part of JJ, or the division is cleaned out. what about Glover(lil experience), Gusto , lil nog, hell even Forest Griffin has some wins. I like Vitor as a challenger, but I always said Chael has a speed edge usually coupled with his force of nature pressure and takedowns, he may be able to get inside Jones reach, compared to Vitor who everyone should like as a replacement because of his blitz and lightning fast hands,

although i BET Vitor will get taken down and finished. If Vitor got spectacular take down defense and adapted his bjj to utilize chokes and locks, than he could win. Vitor is not as strong as he was at lhw, and Jones takedowns and throws come efortessly on most, and come from 10 feet away. There is no way Jones will stand with Vitor with the power and speed combined, a combo rampage or others haven't had advantage over JJ with. I doubt he turned down Weidman, but if he turned down chael that could be a good next fight if no one else is available.
Chael_Sonnen
8/24/12 11:31:01AM

Posted by Shawn91111

For a fair fight it should be Old Vitor and New Vitor vs Jones



You mean "old mental midget(s)" vs "new mental midget"?

No thanks.
Franklinfan47
8/24/12 11:32:44AM
Wont happen, but ill be rooting for a Vitor KO Mad respect.
crushedbacon
8/24/12 11:43:43AM
I was thinking this last night... I bet Lyoto was thrilled finding out he gets Jones in 30 days, when he was planning for likely January. The people that are calling Machida and Shogun cowards are just talking out their asses... both guys fought 3 weeks ago and the stakes are very high for these guys, so why not give yourself the best chance the next time you fight Jones? Likely the last chance Machida or Shogun will get.

I'd be interested to know if Gustuvsson and Evans where given a call.... Gus hasn't fought since April and I'm really interested to see that fight.
meier
8/24/12 12:07:22PM
YES! YES! YES!
TheCatFather
8/24/12 12:08:24PM
I recall the days when everyone and anyone would stab there own mother at Thanksgiving dinner just to fight on an undercard SMH!!!!!!!!!!

Chael, Silva and Belfor for at least keeping the Gladiator way alive.



Bones Jones may this fight be your last as champ
Twenty20Dollars
8/24/12 12:27:42PM
Dislike that statement from Lorenzo.

"Real fighter"

I'm sorry that your sport has evolved and not just anyone can step in on a moments notice, when we are talking about fighting at the top of your game against the best in the world.

I'm sorry you give guys full training camps for other fights, but not when you really need them to fight.
Manak
8/24/12 12:35:35PM

Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Dislike that statement from Lorenzo.

"Real fighter"

I'm sorry that your sport has evolved and not just anyone can step in on a moments notice, when we are talking about fighting at the top of your game against the best in the world.

I'm sorry you give guys full training camps for other fights, but not when you really need them to fight.



it being a sport is all the more reason for someone to step in. i wonder when tom brady blow out his knee if his backup was like "uhhh nooo i don't wanna go in bill i haven't had enough reps in practice & these D-line guys are really big so i don't wanna risk it." like MALICE said Politics > Pride, that is how the sport is evolving which isn't good, just ask boxing.
prophecy033
8/24/12 12:36:39PM

Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Dislike that statement from Lorenzo.

"Real fighter"

I'm sorry that your sport has evolved and not just anyone can step in on a moments notice, when we are talking about fighting at the top of your game against the best in the world.

I'm sorry you give guys full training camps for other fights, but not when you really need them to fight.

When you REALLY need them most likely means there's no time for a full training camp. I applaud the guys that will step up and risk their "status" for a short notice fight. You're gonna gain a lot of respect when you step forward and not backward.
Chael_Sonnen
8/24/12 1:12:04PM

Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Dislike that statement from Lorenzo.

"Real fighter"

I'm sorry that your sport has evolved and not just anyone can step in on a moments notice, when we are talking about fighting at the top of your game against the best in the world.

I'm sorry you give guys full training camps for other fights, but not when you really need them to fight.



Step away from your computer before you insert both of your feet in your mouth.

Training Camps are for brats roasting marsh mellows along side a fire.....Real "fighters" step up when needed.
Twenty20Dollars
8/24/12 1:14:42PM

Posted by Chael_Sonnen


Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Dislike that statement from Lorenzo.

"Real fighter"

I'm sorry that your sport has evolved and not just anyone can step in on a moments notice, when we are talking about fighting at the top of your game against the best in the world.

I'm sorry you give guys full training camps for other fights, but not when you really need them to fight.



Step away from your computer before you insert both of your feet in your mouth.

Training Camps are for brats roasting marsh mellows along side a fire.....Real "fighters" step up when needed.



Then why not call Tim Sylvia.
Twenty20Dollars
8/24/12 1:21:25PM

Posted by Manak


Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Dislike that statement from Lorenzo.

"Real fighter"

I'm sorry that your sport has evolved and not just anyone can step in on a moments notice, when we are talking about fighting at the top of your game against the best in the world.

I'm sorry you give guys full training camps for other fights, but not when you really need them to fight.



it being a sport is all the more reason for someone to step in. i wonder when tom brady blow out his knee if his backup was like "uhhh nooo i don't wanna go in bill i haven't had enough reps in practice & these D-line guys are really big so i don't wanna risk it." like MALICE said Politics > Pride, that is how the sport is evolving which isn't good, just ask boxing.



Ah, yes the guy the back up QB that is practicing all week.

I've seen other fighters opinions about it, but they know or have been in the situation rather than Lorenzo.
Twenty20Dollars
8/24/12 1:25:14PM
I'm confused as why they put Jones at 152, but didn't have anyone officially set as his opponent.

They needed Jones to fight so badly?

UFC backed themselves into this situation.
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