Couture called it, and now he readies for Gonzaga

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cmill21
7/31/07 3:30:03PM
I think aleks might be overrated, werdum, but the top ones aren't. There's an adjustment period going from one to the other. If you are going to call a guy overrated because he lost one fight then you really need to re-think your rating system.
Biggieb
7/31/07 4:48:51PM
You guys do know that cro cop serves in the croatian parliament when he doesn't fight. Tell me that doesn't cut into his training time or his focus. Cro cop even said he knew nothing about Gonzaga and he trained just for trianings sake. Took him lightly. The only reason he got knocked out though, if you watch the replay in slowmo, is that he went to block a body shot, but Gonzaga was going for the head kick. So Cro cop lost due to his own mistakes. He is still the better fighter. Gonzaga has only fought like 9 times and Cro cop is the only one that most people even know about even in the MMA world. Gonzaga is getting over hyped just like UFC did to Monson and look what happend to him against Tim Sylvia.
elysianwing
7/31/07 6:44:26PM

Posted by Biggieb

You guys do know that cro cop serves in the croatian parliament when he doesn't fight. Tell me that doesn't cut into his training time or his focus. Cro cop even said he knew nothing about Gonzaga and he trained just for trianings sake. Took him lightly. The only reason he got knocked out though, if you watch the replay in slowmo, is that he went to block a body shot, but Gonzaga was going for the head kick. So Cro cop lost due to his own mistakes. He is still the better fighter. Gonzaga has only fought like 9 times and Cro cop is the only one that most people even know about even in the MMA world. Gonzaga is getting over hyped just like UFC did to Monson and look what happend to him against Tim Sylvia.




.....Nobody has ever Man-handled Crocop in his entire career, the way GG did.

Ever.


Not Fedor, not Nog, not Hunt, not Wand... even Randleman who squashed him.....didn't manhandle CC the way GG did.



For people to call GG over-hyped/lucky/flukeish is straight f*cking idiocy.


There wasn't a single moment in the fight with GG that CC was the better fighter, not one. Yet, you want to try and say GG won on account of mistakes CC made *during* the fight???? Meaning what exactly? That in between those mistakes, before and after....he was winning?


We are not talking about a lucky shot or fluke upset here people, we are talking about PURE one-sided dominance from bell to bell. GG crushed CC that night(like nobody has ever crushed him before), and that is a fact.


He didn't train elbows, fine. that certainly was a mistake that played a part in his loss.

He didn't train in the cage, fine. Obviously a mistake that played a part in his loss.

but with CC's raw/natural talent...don't tell me THOSE are the only reasons GG won, because that is bullshit.




My unbiased opinion regarding GG & Randy....as much as I'd like to see Randy win, I'm calling GG 3rd rd. tko.

I can't count Randy out(ever)...and wouldn't be surprised if he found a way to win....but my gut tells me GG is going to take this one.
cmill21
7/31/07 7:09:10PM
You said it perfectly, and theres a reason he was winning like that, Mirko didn't have his heart in it. I think the only way we'll know how good gg is his fight with randy. I'm undecided on who to pick in this fight, but I'm pulling for gg, I want to see him and Mirko have a rematch.
coldindian
7/31/07 11:36:12PM
well,mirko threw the body kick,GG caught it took him down..and i dont think CC trained for the cage which can make a huge difference....gonzaga had him hurt with thos elbows then surprised everyone with that headkick which seems like a good plan to me..when the person doesnt expect it coming that sounds about right to me..CC is not perfect.no one is..everyone is like ok left headkick coming well now people are starting to realize he loads up everything he throws he puts alot of energy into each one of those kicks causing him to get tired...but napao did the right thing props to him..he should do well against randy but im not sure how it will go down
Biggieb
8/1/07 9:54:57AM
He wasn't ready for him is what im saying dude. If Cro Cop was ready, he would have knocked Gonzaga out. Did you see the welt on the side of Gonzaga's body after that one leg kick. Another one of those and Gonzaga's ribs would have ceised to exist. Crocop only hit him a few times and did more physical damage than Gonzaga did the entire fight that he (I admit) dominated. Before the knockout, Crocop looked fine, no damage, not tired, just kinda trying to figure out what to do. Had the Fight gone another round I think it would have been a different story. I hope they fight again so you can see how the fight would have went had crocop been ready the first time.

Pure talent is not enough to win all the time. We all know that Mirko has pure talent, but how can you know how to fight an individual you know nothing about? It's all his own fault he lost, but I still don't see how anyone can say that Gonzaga is an overall better fighter than Crocop. Gonzaga is ok, but he's not ready for Couture. Gonzaga was supposed to lose that match so Cro cop would fight for the title. Gonzaga shocked everyone with that upset and they HAD to give him a shot. He hasn't beaten anyone besides Crocop to deserve such an honor to fight for the championship. Im not saying he couldn't earn it, but in my opinion you don't earn things because of what you did one time. Look at his record....Crocop and Werdum the only good/decent fighters he's faced.

Winning is not all that counts in deciding who is the better at anything, there are circumstances to all contests, you have to look at the overall ability/capacity of the individuals involved. I don't expect most people to understand this seeing how people think that winning is everything in todays society.
coldindian
8/1/07 11:02:43AM

Posted by Biggieb

He wasn't ready for him is what im saying dude. If Cro Cop was ready, he would have knocked Gonzaga out. Did you see the welt on the side of Gonzaga's body after that one leg kick. Another one of those and Gonzaga's ribs would have ceised to exist. Crocop only hit him a few times and did more physical damage than Gonzaga did the entire fight that he (I admit) dominated. Before the knockout, Crocop looked fine, no damage, not tired, just kinda trying to figure out what to do. Had the Fight gone another round I think it would have been a different story. I hope they fight again so you can see how the fight would have went had crocop been ready the first time.

Pure talent is not enough to win all the time. We all know that Mirko has pure talent, but how can you know how to fight an individual you know nothing about? It's all his own fault he lost, but I still don't see how anyone can say that Gonzaga is an overall better fighter than Crocop. Gonzaga is ok, but he's not ready for Couture. Gonzaga was supposed to lose that match so Cro cop would fight for the title. Gonzaga shocked everyone with that upset and they HAD to give him a shot. He hasn't beaten anyone besides Crocop to deserve such an honor to fight for the championship. Im not saying he couldn't earn it, but in my opinion you don't earn things because of what you did one time. Look at his record....Crocop and Werdum the only good/decent fighters he's faced.

Winning is not all that counts in deciding who is the better at anything, there are circumstances to all contests, you have to look at the overall ability/capacity of the individuals involved. I don't expect most people to understand this seeing how people think that winning is everything in todays society.



but the thing is..CC wasn't ready according to you? ya i seen the welt on his side but you have to make sacrifices to succeed..and he did he caught it and got him down...maybe he wasn't damaged or tired but that kick he really should have known how to block it or evade it.,..him coming from K-1 fighting the best fighters in the world but owell..too late..he lost he got knocked out..and GG has a title shot and has a pretty good chance IMO
elysianwing
8/1/07 2:56:45PM

Posted by Biggieb

He wasn't ready for him is what im saying dude. If Cro Cop was ready, he would have knocked Gonzaga out.

I really don't think so, honestly, on any given night I think GG is bad news for CC....


Did you see the welt on the side of Gonzaga's body after that one leg kick. Another one of those and Gonzaga's ribs would have ceised to exist.
Right, I saw.....but did you see him catch the leg, take him down and smash his face with elbows for around 3 minutes?



Crocop only hit him a few times and did more physical damage than Gonzaga did the entire fight that he (I admit) dominated.



Wow dude. Wow. What exactly is your definition for inflicting more physical damage? Just curious....because apparently you feel that CC's face/head did more damage to GG's elbows/forearms/ankle than GG's elbows/forearms/ankle did to CC's face/head. Seriously, wtf, how can you even begin to try and make an arguement like that without exposing blatant bias?


Before the knockout, Crocop looked fine, no damage, not tired, just kinda trying to figure out what to do. Had the Fight gone another round I think it would have been a different story.
.....thats the thing though dude.....the fight would never have GONE another round, prior to the ko, there was a weird ass non-sensical call for them to stand up(made by the ref). remember how up until then GG was crushing CC's face in with elbows? then the ref GIFTS CC a stand-up(even though it was probably the shittiest call i've ever seen, and made me wonder if Dana instructed him to do it 'if by some chance CC is getting smashed') and CC proceeded to get knocked out before ever throwing a shot.


I hope they fight again so you can see how the fight would have went had crocop been ready the first time.
.....I'm not a tuffer, aside from a few of CC's fights...I've seen pretty much all of them. I know what he looks like when he is ready, and he hasn't looked that way since the OWGP. However, like I said, GG on any night imo is bad news for CC.



Pure talent is not enough to win all the time. We all know that Mirko has pure talent, but how can you know how to fight an individual you know nothing about? It's all his own fault he lost, but I still don't see how anyone can say that Gonzaga is an overall better fighter than Crocop. Gonzaga is ok, but he's not ready for Couture.

we can say he is an overall better fighter...because he IS an overall better fighter. CC is a striker...with TDD and a mediocre ground game. GG is a wizard on the ground, and obviously has some pretty nasty strikes as well, he is far more well rounded than CC, even if CC has the edge in striking. In what way is CC ready for Couture? In what way would CC have been more ready for couture than GG? he looked like shit with sanchez, was smashed by GG....but apparently he was supposed to contend for (and win) the title? Couture would've demolished CC if he fought the guy that Sanchez and GG fought.



Gonzaga was supposed to lose that match so Cro cop would fight for the title. Gonzaga shocked everyone with that upset and they HAD to give him a shot. He hasn't beaten anyone besides Crocop to deserve such an honor to fight for the championship. Im not saying he couldn't earn it, but in my opinion you don't earn things because of what you did one time.

and wtf did CC do in the ufc to "earn" himself a title shot? Beat Eddie? GG was 3-0 in the ufc, CC was 1-0. When Randy got his shot at Tim, he was 0-0 in the ufc since retirement....I mean as far as earning shots go...how did GG not earn his with the win over CC? 4-0 in the ufc with a win over one of the top 3 heavyweights in the world.....compared to the title shots given out lately to 2-0, 1-0(Anderson over Leben = title shot, Jackson over Eastman = title shot), and 0-0 UFC records....GG's 4-0 is overkill.



Look at his record....Crocop and Werdum the only good/decent fighters he's faced.

Winning is not all that counts in deciding who is the better at anything, there are circumstances to all contests, you have to look at the overall ability/capacity of the individuals involved. I don't expect most people to understand this seeing how people think that winning is everything in todays society.



Thats true, but do you REALLY think you are looking at the overall ability/capacity of the individuals involved? If you are, you are sort of biased imo. you basically admit you don't know GG well enough to know how good he really is.....but you are here telling me how CC 'should've' won easily, 'would win if he was ready', etc etc etc. If you were being objective here, you could at the very least allow for the possibility that CC just doesn't match up well against GG at any time. Ready or not. GG is just a bad matchup for CC. rematch with CC serious + ready? I'll go ahead and call it a second clear win for GG. That is my unbiased opinion.

I mean CC is a great fighter(obviously), thats not the arguement. I'd never try to argue that bs like all the fair-weather fans.

The arguement is over how everybody tries to discredit an "underdog's" win over a "favorite". GG won, but it wasn't an upset, it wasn't a lucky shot, it was dominance. Hopefully CC will get his head on straight and make a second run at GG and/or the title though, as I think everybody would be interested in a GG/CC rematch.
coldindian
8/1/07 3:11:43PM

Posted by elysianwing


Posted by Biggieb

He wasn't ready for him is what im saying dude. If Cro Cop was ready, he would have knocked Gonzaga out.

I really don't think so, honestly, on any given night I think GG is bad news for CC....


Did you see the welt on the side of Gonzaga's body after that one leg kick. Another one of those and Gonzaga's ribs would have ceised to exist.
Right, I saw.....but did you see him catch the leg, take him down and smash his face with elbows for around 3 minutes?



Crocop only hit him a few times and did more physical damage than Gonzaga did the entire fight that he (I admit) dominated.



Wow dude. Wow. What exactly is your definition for inflicting more physical damage? Just curious....because apparently you feel that CC's face/head did more damage to GG's elbows/forearms/ankle than GG's elbows/forearms/ankle did to CC's face/head. Seriously, wtf, how can you even begin to try and make an arguement like that without exposing blatant bias?


Before the knockout, Crocop looked fine, no damage, not tired, just kinda trying to figure out what to do. Had the Fight gone another round I think it would have been a different story.
.....thats the thing though dude.....the fight would never have GONE another round, prior to the ko, there was a weird ass non-sensical call for them to stand up(made by the ref). remember how up until then GG was crushing CC's face in with elbows? then the ref GIFTS CC a stand-up(even though it was probably the shittiest call i've ever seen, and made me wonder if Dana instructed him to do it 'if by some chance CC is getting smashed') and CC proceeded to get knocked out before ever throwing a shot.


I hope they fight again so you can see how the fight would have went had crocop been ready the first time.
.....I'm not a tuffer, aside from a few of CC's fights...I've seen pretty much all of them. I know what he looks like when he is ready, and he hasn't looked that way since the OWGP. However, like I said, GG on any night imo is bad news for CC.



Pure talent is not enough to win all the time. We all know that Mirko has pure talent, but how can you know how to fight an individual you know nothing about? It's all his own fault he lost, but I still don't see how anyone can say that Gonzaga is an overall better fighter than Crocop. Gonzaga is ok, but he's not ready for Couture.

we can say he is an overall better fighter...because he IS an overall better fighter. CC is a striker...with TDD and a mediocre ground game. GG is a wizard on the ground, and obviously has some pretty nasty strikes as well, he is far more well rounded than CC, even if CC has the edge in striking. In what way is CC ready for Couture? In what way would CC have been more ready for couture than GG? he looked like shit with sanchez, was smashed by GG....but apparently he was supposed to contend for (and win) the title? Couture would've demolished CC if he fought the guy that Sanchez and GG fought.



Gonzaga was supposed to lose that match so Cro cop would fight for the title. Gonzaga shocked everyone with that upset and they HAD to give him a shot. He hasn't beaten anyone besides Crocop to deserve such an honor to fight for the championship. Im not saying he couldn't earn it, but in my opinion you don't earn things because of what you did one time.

and wtf did CC do in the ufc to "earn" himself a title shot? Beat Eddie? GG was 3-0 in the ufc, CC was 1-0. When Randy got his shot at Tim, he was 0-0 in the ufc since retirement....I mean as far as earning shots go...how did GG not earn his with the win over CC? 4-0 in the ufc with a win over one of the top 3 heavyweights in the world.....compared to the title shots given out lately to 2-0, 1-0(Anderson over Leben = title shot, Jackson over Eastman = title shot), and 0-0 UFC records....GG's 4-0 is overkill.



Look at his record....Crocop and Werdum the only good/decent fighters he's faced.

Winning is not all that counts in deciding who is the better at anything, there are circumstances to all contests, you have to look at the overall ability/capacity of the individuals involved. I don't expect most people to understand this seeing how people think that winning is everything in todays society.



Thats true, but do you REALLY think you are looking at the overall ability/capacity of the individuals involved? If you are, you are sort of biased imo. you basically admit you don't know GG well enough to know how good he really is.....but you are here telling me how CC 'should've' won easily, 'would win if he was ready', etc etc etc. If you were being objective here, you could at the very least allow for the possibility that CC just doesn't match up well against GG at any time. Ready or not. GG is just a bad matchup for CC. rematch with CC serious + ready? I'll go ahead and call it a second clear win for GG. That is my unbiased opinion.

I mean CC is a great fighter(obviously), thats not the arguement. I'd never try to argue that bs like all the fair-weather fans.

The arguement is over how everybody tries to discredit an "underdog's" win over a "favorite". GG won, but it wasn't an upset, it wasn't a lucky shot, it was dominance. Hopefully CC will get his head on straight and make a second run at GG and/or the title though, as I think everybody would be interested in a GG/CC rematch.



this guy knows what hs talking about...i dont even know what to say
cmill21
8/1/07 4:04:51PM
I disagree with a couple points. First I don't think gg is that big of a deal for Mirko, when they fought it was clear from the get go Mirko wasn't into it blah blah blah, but if you watch the first round with nog(better BJJ practitioner) he demolished nog, that exactly what Mirko figured he'd do(would have if he was even 50% ready). No way gg could have thaken that punishment. Second, the reason Mirko was on the ground not doing anything was because he wasn't taking a ton of damage(blurred his vision with 3 temple shots), and he was worried If he bucked it would end up just like the nog fight did. Now, he would have blocked it/moved if he could properly see the kick. His vision was blurred, you can tell by the fact he saw the kick as being a rib kick, and that was one of the sloppiest high kicks i've ever seen. Now on to the OWGP Mirko, had they fought at that time I really don't think anyone could have beat him(mmmaybe fedor). How do you know how bad Mirko's ground game is? His gg fight does not count, he did not train with elbows, or how to use the cage to get up. Does it suck because of the nog fight? He's changed a ton since then! He doesn't like to go to the ground for a reason, he's an amazing K-1 level striker, would you want to go to the ground? I honestly don't think he looked that bad in the sanchez fight, eddie just ran away, Mirko didn't know how to cut off the ring because, well, it was a cage that he had never been in before. Now gg may be the more well rounded fighter, but do we really know all that much about his stand up? I'd say his stand up and Mirko's ground game are even(Mirko has a normally very agressive guard, and a good gnp) and Mirko's stand up is better then gg's ground game. I for one dearly hope Mirko beats kongo, and then, I expect gg to beat randy, Mirko gets a rematch with gg. I think the second fight would be an INCREDIBLE one. Why? Well because Mirko would obviously have much more respect for gg, as we all should! Of course in a rematch I would pick Mirko, but I woulden't (obviously) count gg out.
Biggieb
8/2/07 4:43:12PM
You guys will see. Obviously there is no point in arguing. I have my opinions just like you have yours and they just happen to difffer, and I know that I can't change your mind and I damn sure know that you wont change mine. We will just have to see what happens. I expect to see Couture vs Cro cop, not another Gonzaga vs Cro cop anyway.
zephead
8/2/07 4:56:23PM
If this far into Cro Cop's MMA career and he doesn't have respect for the person standing across from him, he's got problems. MMA is about matchups and GG matches up really well to Cro Cop. Randy matches up really well to Cro Cop. Randy doesn't match well to GG. GG is bigger, stronger and excels in the part of the game that Randy excels in.

I have said this a million times, when you chose to stand and bang, with 4 oz. gloves on, anything can happen. Hell, if Fujita had any type of submission game, Fedor loses. They stood and threw down and Fujita caught him. Thats what made what Chuck was doing so crazy. Anything can happen with those 4 oz. gloves. How many people here though Heath would have Big Nog in trouble like that? Anything can happen standing up

CC matches up better with strikers then ground fighters. He has lost to GG, Randleman (He got caught, but his hands were dropped waiting for the takedown) Big Nog, Hunt and Fedor. 4 of those guys have great ground games.
cmill21
8/2/07 5:13:28PM
It's true but he does do better against wrestlers then submission guys. Wrestlers he knows his sprawl is good enough to stuff the take down, and he's strong enough to get back up. It's the submission guys that he doesn't like, as you said 3 of those 4 guys have really good submissions. I do agree that Mirko matches up better with strikers, but he matches up better with wrestlers then submissions.
DangerMouse666
8/20/07 8:03:21PM
Btm line.. GG came better prepared than CC. Would beat him again who knows time willl tell. CC reminds me of Chuck on tryin' to keep the fight standing and do his bread and butter. Isn't that what most fighters do? Look @ Cheeto Ortiz he wants to GNP so thats' what he does(well atleats tries to). CC just didn't get himself prepared for GG and now he has to come back and show he still has what it take. Some say a loss will better a fighter, that I believe and whenn CC steps back in the cage we will see if that holds true.
KissMyBallz
8/20/07 11:42:14PM
Bottom line is you're right, but also Cro Cop wasnt used to being pinned up against a cage with elbows reigning down on him.

A couple of elbows from top position got Cro Cop loopy enough to get KTFO by his own leg kick BECAUSE he couldnt handle


THE CAGE!
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