A couple grappling questions

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fedorwins1
7/24/07 1:08:21PM
Ok I'm fairly new to grappling and I have a few "noobish" questions.

1.) When I'm in someone's guard, where should my arms be and where should my head be? I usually put my forearms on the ground and my forehead on the center of their chest, but this is letting the people set up gogo's and also, I get put in alot of guilotines.

2.) What is a good way to pass the half butterfly guard and butterfly guard?

3.) When people shrimp up when they're in half guard how do I stay on top of them and advance or keep my position?

4.) When dealing with a lanky grappler, what is good offense and good defense?

Also, whoever on here said that you don't need a cup when doing no gi grappling lied, last night I was in someone's half butterfly guard and they did a sweep and if I would have had a cup on they wouldn't of gotten it, but it hurt so bad that I just rolled over to stop the pain lol. Also, kneebars without cups on = ouch.

bayonetxwork
7/24/07 3:28:22PM

Posted by fedorwins1

Ok I'm fairly new to grappling and I have a few "noobish" questions.

1.) When I'm in someone's guard, where should my arms be and where should my head be? I usually put my forearms on the ground and my forehead on the center of their chest, but this is letting the people set up gogo's and also, I get put in alot of guilotines.

2.) What is a good way to pass the half butterfly guard and butterfly guard?

3.) When people shrimp up when they're in half guard how do I stay on top of them and advance or keep my position?

4.) When dealing with a lanky grappler, what is good offense and good defense?

Also, whoever on here said that you don't need a cup when doing no gi grappling lied, last night I was in someone's half butterfly guard and they did a sweep and if I would have had a cup on they wouldn't of gotten it, but it hurt so bad that I just rolled over to stop the pain lol. Also, kneebars without cups on = ouch.




Never put your arms on the ground, and thats exactly why you get set up on gogo's, or even triangles are often set up from that mistake. It makes an easy grip for the guy on the bottom to set up a submission. However, you can use that to your advantage. If they start to grip it, bring your other hand over, and you can easily set up a bent arm bar like americana or kimura. i like to keep my hands active, and normally gripping their arms, or sleeves.

About the butterfly guard, talk to your instructor about it, because its really hard to explain technical stuff over the internet.

About shrimping up in half guard, you can use that get their back. If your left legs trapped, and they shrimp up to your left, sneak your right leg behind, because your left leg is already in the right spot to secure a hook.

And yeah, wear a cup. I took a whizzer to the nuts, and it was terrrrrible.
chris_armour
7/24/07 5:05:53PM
When in someones guard you NEVER want to have your hands on the ground. This will leave you open for many subs and sweeps. Try to keep your hands either on the upper arms, or preferably posted straight into their abdomen. You also want to try and stay postured up as much as possible. This will keep you out of danger from most subs, and give you room to pass. Posture is your best weapon inside guard.

As for the butterfly situation, as the previous poster stated, it is a bit complitcated to explain, but a simple way to pass butterfly hooks is to stay tight, push both of their legs down to one side, sprawl out and circle to the opposite side. When somebody has butterfly hooks in they are proabably going to want to sit up into you to create the leverage they need, do notr let them do this and you will not be in nowhere near as much danger.

In the half guard there are many more options than you would think. One of the simplest ways to stop them from shrimping out on you is to just stay really active. Even if you aren't sure what you're gonna do next just keep moving and stray tight that way your opponent doesn't have the opportunity to get offensive. Taking the back and certain leglocks are also great to try for from this position if you commit to them and don't hesitate too much.

As for dealing with a lanky grappler, I don't really know what to tell ya. I usually just stay really active and continuously move from one thing to another, hoping to catch them off guard or wear them out. Being lanky is an advantage and a disadvantage at the same time. It allows you to keep distance and attack you opponent when they can't attack you, but it also means that in moves like the armbar they have more leverage to pull th earm out.

Hope some of that helps.
Lethal
7/24/07 5:41:39PM
Keep working at it. I had similar questions when I first started. It will all come to you, most of it without even realizing it. How long have you been training?
fedorwins1
7/25/07 11:55:59AM
I've been training for about 3 weeks lol, so yeah I'm really new to everything.
Rush
7/25/07 1:30:49PM
Just follow Horn's advice:

This is my zone, my zone is my home. Never let anyone into my zone or my home.


Bascally the other guys have said it.

When in doubt, watch guys like Arona, Jacare, etc in ADCC matches.
fedorwins1
7/25/07 3:54:29PM
Well I'm expecting to be out for about 3 weeks now, because someone decided to bend my knee in a very akward position and they were careless and it popped out and popped back in. I did this last summer also, it's a reoccuring injury. I pulled the ligament pretty bad and they've never been as strong as they were before. How long do you think I should lay off the grappling?
Rush
7/25/07 4:31:25PM

Posted by fedorwins1

Well I'm expecting to be out for about 3 weeks now, because someone decided to bend my knee in a very akward position and they were careless and it popped out and popped back in. I did this last summer also, it's a reoccurring injury. I pulled the ligament pretty bad and they've never been as strong as they were before. How long do you think I should lay off the grappling?



A lot of it depends on how bad the injury is and how old you are. If you are a teenager, you might be able to shave 20-30% of the times I am giving you.


The following is based off of my ligament injuries over the years. If you are limping the day after or the day of, I say lay off everything (running, weights, training, etc) for 2-3 weeks. Even if it feels better after the first week, give it a little more time.

Then start rehabilitating it with progressive weight training, stretching and physiotherapy.

I wouldn't go back to training for 3 months minimum, especially since it sounds like there are some irresponsible people there. In my experience, even training partners with the best intentions can make mistakes and re injure you. Plus, ligaments take a long time to heal because they receive less blood than other tissue. Sometimes it takes 6 months for a bad ligament injury to heal, provided you don't re injure it.

Training is just a hobby and it's not worth having a permanent problem with your body just because you don't want to stop training for a month or two. You may not feel old injuries now, but you will when you get older.

And above all else, go see a doctor right away and get their assessment.
SSfighter51
7/25/07 4:43:23PM

Posted by fedorwins1

Ok I'm fairly new to grappling and I have a few "noobish" questions.

1.) When I'm in someone's guard, where should my arms be and where should my head be? I usually put my forearms on the ground and my forehead on the center of their chest, but this is letting the people set up gogo's and also, I get put in alot of guilotines.

2.) What is a good way to pass the half butterfly guard and butterfly guard?

3.) When people shrimp up when they're in half guard how do I stay on top of them and advance or keep my position?

4.) When dealing with a lanky grappler, what is good offense and good defense?

Also, whoever on here said that you don't need a cup when doing no gi grappling lied, last night I was in someone's half butterfly guard and they did a sweep and if I would have had a cup on they wouldn't of gotten it, but it hurt so bad that I just rolled over to stop the pain lol. Also, kneebars without cups on = ouch.






ANSWERS:

1.) Never put your arms on the ground!...post one hand off the their hip, controlling it. posture, look to the sealing, and have a straight back. then try to break there gurad by putting one of knees in their butt, and scooting the other away, controlling their knee...keep scooting back, until your free.

2.) control theire legs, and use their kimono for nice grips..from that point, theres many ways to pass.

3.) i usually keep an under hook, and a collar hook around the back of their neck. and just ride them out, or look for a choke or submission, when they are focused on shrimping.

4.) stay away from there full guard, and anything that invovles their legs.
fedorwins1
7/25/07 7:31:38PM

Posted by Rush


Posted by fedorwins1

Well I'm expecting to be out for about 3 weeks now, because someone decided to bend my knee in a very akward position and they were careless and it popped out and popped back in. I did this last summer also, it's a reoccurring injury. I pulled the ligament pretty bad and they've never been as strong as they were before. How long do you think I should lay off the grappling?



A lot of it depends on how bad the injury is and how old you are. If you are a teenager, you might be able to shave 20-30% of the times I am giving you.


The following is based off of my ligament injuries over the years. If you are limping the day after or the day of, I say lay off everything (running, weights, training, etc) for 2-3 weeks. Even if it feels better after the first week, give it a little more time.

Then start rehabilitating it with progressive weight training, stretching and physiotherapy.

I wouldn't go back to training for 3 months minimum, especially since it sounds like there are some irresponsible people there. In my experience, even training partners with the best intentions can make mistakes and re injure you. Plus, ligaments take a long time to heal because they receive less blood than other tissue. Sometimes it takes 6 months for a bad ligament injury to heal, provided you don't re injure it.

Training is just a hobby and it's not worth having a permanent problem with your body just because you don't want to stop training for a month or two. You may not feel old injuries now, but you will when you get older.

And above all else, go see a doctor right away and get their assessment.



Wow 3 months! I seriously can't go that long without doing anything. Plus me and my friend's mom take turns driving there and back, so it would mess up his training also. I think I just bruised the bone pretty bad, but I'm going to the doctors tomorrow to see what exactly is wrong. Since this is a reoccurring injury I'm going to do some physical therapy also to help strengthen the ligaments.
bayonetxwork
7/26/07 11:23:33AM

Posted by fedorwins1
Wow 3 months! I seriously can't go that long without doing anything. Plus me and my friend's mom take turns driving there and back, so it would mess up his training also. I think I just bruised the bone pretty bad, but I'm going to the doctors tomorrow to see what exactly is wrong. Since this is a reoccurring injury I'm going to do some physical therapy also to help strengthen the ligaments.



Yeah that would suck pretty bad. Definitely go to the doctors get a few xray's of the ligaments to make sure nothings torn, etc. Hopefully its just something minor so you can keep training in a week or two.
fedorwins1
7/26/07 12:17:59PM
Great news, it's just a pretty bruised bone and it's very tender and I'm taking anti-inflammatory medicine and I should be back to training in 2 weeks! It still makes me mad though, because I just started and I want to learn everything right away! I'm so inpatient lol.
fedorwins1
7/26/07 12:18:39PM
double post
Rush
7/26/07 4:29:32PM

Posted by fedorwins1

Great news, it's just a pretty bruised bone and it's very tender and I'm taking anti-inflammatory medicine and I should be back to training in 2 weeks! It still makes me mad though, because I just started and I want to learn everything right away! I'm so inpatient lol.




Impatience has been the cause of many re-occuring injuries for me as many of mine have been ligament injuries. As I am 30 now, I have come to the realization that I want to continue training and being physical well into my twilight years and you can't do that if you knees (especially), elbows, shoulders, back, etc. do not function because your injuries never healed properly.

With that said, don't focus on learning so rapidly and you'll enjoy it a lot more. There are a lot of people that I have trained with over the last decade and they put so much pressure on themselves to excel and learn fast. When they found out that wasn't going to be the case they ended up quitting.
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