To the cops and whoever knows the law.

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Rush
11/10/08 11:54:31AM
I've had many experiences with getting pulled over by cops. I've seen a good portion of the spectrum from nice ones to assholes on a power trip. The one thing that was consistent was that I was cooperative.

An asshole will be an asshole regardless if you are cooperative, but it can be worse if you don't cooperate or make a mistake (even if it is honest).

For example, putting your hands in your pockets was not a good idea, but I understand that is probably your most natural reaction. It probably sucks to be cop where any time someone reaches in their pockets or glove box, they could be pulling out a weapon.

Another example (form a personal experience) was when we got pulled over for a RIDE check (for drinking). My buddy lived out in the country (high water table and tons of mosquitoes) so we had bug spray on. Turns out bug spray is used to hide the smell of pot. They asked to search the trunk. There was nothing in there but a spare tire so we had no problem popping the trunk. They just let us go from there after they took about a 2 sec. look.

However, there have been times where cops have flat out lied to try and get someone to admit to something, even though we were guilty of nothing. Or threaten to make up a charge just so they are not proven wrong (I could tell a couple stories if need be)


All in all there is a mixed bag of cops out there and I understand why they react sometimes, but there are other times where there is no reason for their behavior. It's experiences like those that make me understand why so many people give cops a hard time.
Pookie
11/10/08 1:41:51PM

Posted by bullettdodger

Actually my sister is a lawyer and they can search your glove box, it is only the trunk that they can't unless they have reason to. But all these laws are tailored to help the cops not us average citizens... I mean i got one of these stories myself where i was thrown in the drunk tank for 8 hours because i asked some cops to help me find a cab to get home... Wheres the protecting and serving in that?!?!?!



If the glove compartment is locked, they cant search it. Different rules by state im sure though.
RampageOwnedYou
11/10/08 4:32:39PM
What you should do is hire a good lawyer, and get these officers suspended or fired. I know its not hard to become a cop in the states, so to me it sounds as if these guys were not trained the right way. Nor do we need cops like this on the streets.

So again, hire a good lawyer, and get these guys fired, and also get some money in return. If you guys say, it has caused you some mental stress, then you can claim something. To me it sounds as if these guys are a bunch of a-holes and obviously need to be dealt with!! Quickly! before it happens to someone else.

Its just unacceptable!
casey64
11/10/08 5:06:30PM
Shit happens.
Mitchell740
11/10/08 5:59:25PM

Posted by jakeiceman

As far as the thread, you should fight it man. I fully encourage you too, believe it or not, good cops HATE dirty cops. They make us look bad and give normal citizens (you) a bad perspective about the police. If I worked with someone that I knew was violating someone's rights I would turn them in in a heartbeat. Dont let this put a bad taste in your mouth. For every cop that is an asshole there are 10 more who would be willing to do anything for you.

Excersise your rights and give fighting it a shot. You might not win but atleast YOU did what was right. You cant control everyone's actions, even the police


To my other boys in blue on the site.........

EDIT: Sorry that was all opinion I didnt really help with a few of your questions.

1) The reason for stopping the car sounds like garbage which makes everything I'm about to say "fruit of the poisonous tree" (which pretty much means that the evidence (fruit) found after was "poisonous" because the reason for the stop, (the tree) itself was not based on facts)

2) If they had reasonable suspicion that there were drugs or alcohol in the car the did have some basis for searching the car without consent (remember though of the poisonous tree I spoke of )

3) It sound like they cited your bro for possession of paraphernalia which atleast in my state is considered and "arrest" even if they did not take him into custody. Which in turn gives them the right to do a search incident to arrest. Some judges though do not want you to search vehicle if you are going to cite and release them.

4) The glove box misconception. You have all the right to search in a glovebox.....if it is unlocked. If it is locked your going to most likely need a search warrant. BUT for all of you who think your just going to hide your drugs and guns in your glovebox and tell the cops to pound sand when they ask to search it, drug dogs are smarter than you are and if they smell it, in most cases a search warrant is a phone call away. The bottom line is that if you got yourself in the position where your car needs to be searched....its going to get searched one way or another because if i smell marijuana in a car and ask to search and they say go for it....] but you cant look in my glovebox ,I'm going to search it eventually anyway.

Your case though really is extraordinary if what you say in fact did happen. Like I said most cops are not like that and you should not worry in the future. A tip for people though. Be cool and cooperate, it goes along way.

Hope this helps bud.




Thanks for the advice, and I have met cool cops before, but the fact that three of them swarmed the car and violated our rights when my dad was there and we were 100% cooperatrive. (Believe me there were some things I was holding back from saying.)

As for 2), there was no reason to search the car, they didn't do any field sobriety tests to have at least some proof any of us were intoxicated (which we weren't) They found nothing incriminateing on us, and they only searched my brother and I as they prettty much ignored my dad and anything he said.
Rush
11/10/08 7:26:35PM
Since I was asked to share a story or two.


Story 1

Now this story did not involve me directly. It involved a professor in an adjacent lab to mine. I know him and his wife quite well (both are professors)

In our dept. we like to have the occasional get together in the hall or conference room to celebrate someone graduating or for new graduate/summer students. Typically we like to have some snacks and drinks (which include beer)

Now, the legal age to drink, in Canada (Ontario) is 19yrs old. It is unlikely that a graduate student is any younger than 22 yrs old, and summer students are rarely younger than 21, but never younger than 20 yrs old.

Any how, one day Andy (the prof) was carrying up a couple small cases of beer for one of these things. Basically he was on his way into the main building with the beer and campus police stopped him. They asked him where he was going with the beer and he said up to our dept. because we were having a little get together. Now, none of what we were doing is illegal by any means. The beer was not being sold and the areas we were consuming it was not public domain. i.e. a random person could not get away with just walking in on our party.

The cops told him that he could not take the beer into the building. Andy asked why not? They said because he might serve it to a minor. He assured them this was for graduate students and that he was a professor and there was no way a minor was going to even be at the party let alone drink.

The cops still wouldn't budge and insisted he was doing wrong. So Andy said that they cannot stop him from doing this because he wasn't doing anything wrong and that the situation was just like telling someone they can't get into their car to drive home because the might speed, run a red light, etc.

The cops didn't like it that much and actually said that if he was going to be smart they would take him into the station and write him up for some random infraction. He just didn't to deal with any shit so he backed down. I don't know if he filed a complaint or not. I know I sure as he would have.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Story 2 - campus police strike again

This story did involve me.

So my wife and I went to the gym (it was on the weekend) and were going to go to the lab afterwards. Well, I forgot my key card to get into the building, but my wife had hers (they are the same). We were planning on entering the building together, but she left the gym early to get some coffee.

Anyhow, most of the time people will let you in as they are leaving. Also, I tend to forget my key card a lot because I know the security guards (both are nice guys) and they let me in without question. However, they were not there on this day. There was this fat woman leaving the building and I tried to walk in as she was leaving. She told me I was not getting into the building without a key card and threw her body into the door to close it. Then she told me to go fuck myself.

**aside - when reading this you must know that the main door, because of wheelchair access, stays open for about 10-20 secs every time someone enters the building. Also, there was an incident with a broken door, which gave access to the whole building 24/7 for about a week (after it was reported) before getting fixed. So the persistence of building security by this woman (and as you will read, cops) bothered me because of the double standard.

Just my luck campus police were in the area and this woman ran over to them and told them that I was trying to get into the building (or whatever, it was too far for me to hear). The pair of cops came up to me and I was straight with them and told them that I forgot my card. I told them that I have a key to my lab (which is locked) and that they can escort me to my lab and I will show them evidence that I belong in the lab. e.g. I can log into my computer, have pictures at my desk and lab notes with my name on them, etc.

They actually said no. I even told them that my wife is in the lab across the hall, but because I don't own a cell phone, I couldn't call her to let me in. They thought it would be a great idea for them to go up and have her come down and let me in. **now, how dumb is that? how is that different than them escorting me to my lab?**

So what ended up happening was they went up asking people in the lab if they knew who I was (all were stunned that the cops were asking about me). Then my wife came with he coffee (I thought she was in the building, but it turned out not yet.) We went up to my lab and I saw the two cops. I held my lab key up in their face and opened the door to the lab. I was so pissed because they acted that way (just like in story 1) because they knew they were wrong and didn't want to admit it. Not only that, but they were so adamant about this situation, yet when I had some stuff stolen from my lab and I reported it, they said they would come to make a formal inquiry, but never came.



I know these pale in comparison to the original story or some others, but they can give you a sense for how unreasonable some cops can be.
Svartorm
11/10/08 9:33:00PM
I'm going to avoid reading the rest of this thread and tell you this:

Never take legal advice over the internet. I guarentee almost no one in this thread knows what they're talking about, except Telnights, whos a former police officer himself. If you're wondering if something was legal, look up the laws for your state yourself and read them. The laws are to be interpreted by a judge, so even if you feel its worded one way, he may not feel the same way.

As for your set-up, reaching into your pocket was a tremendously stupid thing to do. If you're dealing with an authority figure and you have to do ANYTHING like that, whether its pockets or glove box, the best thing to say is "I have *blank*. Would you like me to get it/pull it out?" at that point you won't make him nervous that you're suddenly reaching into a glove box or pocket. If you have a weapon, letting them know about it is best, rather than pop open your glovebox and having a 1911 sitting there, etc.
jakeiceman
11/11/08 9:01:20AM

Posted by Svartorm

Never take legal advice over the internet. I guarentee almost no one in this thread knows what they're talking about, except Telnights, whos a former police officer himself.



I agree, the net is no place to look for legal advise, I hope everyone realizes that what I stated was only an opinion based on my experiences.

And WTF Svartorm...."no one in this thread knows what they're talking about, except Telnights" I'm a police officer myself, but I must admit that Telnights is a stud and he does have good advise.
jakeiceman
11/11/08 9:06:52AM

Posted by RampageOwnedYou

I know its not hard to become a cop in the states




And how would you know?? Your pretty much insulting a whole profession by making it sound like we are idiots who walk onto a department and get handed a gun and keys.

I have a college degree and trained for almost a year before i could even become a police officer, other site members such as Bojangles who are police officers have degrees too. And the training isnt even done, I have to have continuous training just to remain certified.

Some states do have more relaxed hiring requirments but that is becoming a thing of the past.

I respect your opinon but you dont really know what your talking about man.
slapshot
11/12/08 5:15:15AM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by bullettdodger

Actually my sister is a lawyer and they can search your glove box, it is only the trunk that they can't unless they have reason to. But all these laws are tailored to help the cops not us average citizens... I mean i got one of these stories myself where i was thrown in the drunk tank for 8 hours because i asked some cops to help me find a cab to get home... Wheres the protecting and serving in that?!?!?!



i'm not saying your sister is incorrect, but in my law class we learned that they cannot search your glove box unless it is open or they have a warrant

EDIT: i think there is a happy medum here. they can't search your glove box unless you give consent, they have a warrant or if they have a credible suspicion that you have illegal substances within it (this suspicion must be backed in court)

Lawyer explains this concept


Probable cause and what they can and cant search, It all very's from state to state. This sounds almost exactly like what happened here except there was no pipe and the driver they pulled over was a federal probation officer, all four officers got fired and the city payed the guy something like 2 mill.
higdon10
11/12/08 5:21:33PM
Shit happens bro. If I was in your spot I wouldn't fight it, youre odds of winning arent to good.
Svartorm
11/13/08 12:40:30AM

Posted by jakeiceman


Posted by Svartorm

Never take legal advice over the internet. I guarentee almost no one in this thread knows what they're talking about, except Telnights, whos a former police officer himself.



I agree, the net is no place to look for legal advise, I hope everyone realizes that what I stated was only an opinion based on my experiences.

And WTF Svartorm...."no one in this thread knows what they're talking about, except Telnights" I'm a police officer myself, but I must admit that Telnights is a stud and he does have good advise.



Sorry bro. Telnights is the only guy I know in the thread that is a former cop. Advice stands though, don't take legal advice from the internet.
SeanSalmonisGod
11/16/08 11:57:07PM
If I may respond to this with a quote:

The year's '94 and my trunk is raw
In my rear view mirror is the mother ******' law
I got two choices y'all pull over the car or (hmmm)
Bounce on the double put the pedal to the floor
Now I ain't tryin' to see no highway chase with Jay.
Plus i got a few dollars i can fight the case
So I...pull over to the side of the road
I heard "Son do you know why I'm stoppin' you for?"
Cause I'm young and I'm black and my hats real low?
Do I look like a mind reader sir, I don't know
Am I under arrest or should I guess some mo'?
"Well you was doin fifty-five in a fifty-fo' "
"Liscense and registration and step out of the car"
"Are you carryin' a weapon on you I know a lot of you are"
I ain't steppin out of shit all my paper's legit
"Well, do you mind if I look round the car a little bit?"
Well my glove compartment is locked so are the trunk in the back
And I know my rights so you gon' need a warrant for that
"Aren't you sharp as a tack, you some type of lawyer or something'?"
"Or somebody important or somethin'?"
Nah, I ain't pass the bar but i know a little bit
Enough that you won't illegally search my shit
"We'll see how smart you are when the K9 come"
I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one
Hit me
jakeiceman
11/18/08 12:26:23AM

Posted by SeanSalmonisGod

If I may respond to this with a quote:

The year's '94 and my trunk is raw
In my rear view mirror is the mother ******' law
I got two choices y'all pull over the car or (hmmm)
Bounce on the double put the pedal to the floor
Now I ain't tryin' to see no highway chase with Jay.
Plus i got a few dollars i can fight the case
So I...pull over to the side of the road
I heard "Son do you know why I'm stoppin' you for?"
Cause I'm young and I'm black and my hats real low?
Do I look like a mind reader sir, I don't know
Am I under arrest or should I guess some mo'?
"Well you was doin fifty-five in a fifty-fo' "
"Liscense and registration and step out of the car"
"Are you carryin' a weapon on you I know a lot of you are"
I ain't steppin out of shit all my paper's legit
"Well, do you mind if I look round the car a little bit?"
Well my glove compartment is locked so are the trunk in the back
And I know my rights so you gon' need a warrant for that
"Aren't you sharp as a tack, you some type of lawyer or something'?"
"Or somebody important or somethin'?"
Nah, I ain't pass the bar but i know a little bit
Enough that you won't illegally search my shit
"We'll see how smart you are when the K9 come"
I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one
Hit me




You just went straight up Jay-Z on our asses.....ha ha.
SeanSalmonisGod
11/18/08 1:14:42AM
I thought it would be appropriate
zephead
11/18/08 1:29:20PM
Can I git a What-What
KO
11/21/08 2:46:39PM
I wouldn't hire a lawyer, its just a misdemeaner. You just had some bad luck and it sucks. Im guessing you live in a small town and they had nothing better to do.
Mitchell740
11/21/08 3:07:34PM
Nope, we live in a decent sized suburb city (Manassas, VA)
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