To the cops and whoever knows the law.

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Mitchell740
11/9/08 12:34:53PM
Last night I was going to a movie with my brother and dad. On the way we past a police car on the side of the road, but it is 3 lanes away and we have the windows up. We drive off a little bit and 2 cop cars pull us over on the grounds that they smelt alcohol as we drove by.

No one in the car had been drinking, it was my brother (20) my dad (40 something) and me (17). Three cops swarmed the car, took ID's from all of us then got us out of the car. Keep in mind, my dad is was in the military for 20 years, the type of guy people usually leave alone, especially cops because he never does anything wrong. They yelled at my dad telling him that he needed to calm down because he had been drinking alcohol. (It had been 48 hours since he had only one beer)

The police officer asked me what i had in my pockets, so I reached into them. Before I can grab whats in my pockets he turned me around and slammed me into the car and put my hands behind my back and told me "Never put your hands in your pocket like that in front of a police officer."

He then searched me and my brother and handcuffed us after finding nothing, asked where my brothers keys were and searched his car without consent. The handcuffs were on tight enough to make my right wrist get scratched up and draw just a dab of blood.

The cop asked me when the last time i smoked marijuanna was and I told him never. He then accused my dad of having smoked marijuanna before.

They brought back a pipe and a bag that resin in it. My brother told us he's never seen it before (which I wouldnt doubt either way.)

He told my brother that he needed to admit it was his, or all 3 of us would go to jail. (It did get there by someone he gave a ride somewhere or him)
He ended up getting a fine and getting to go home that night. On the official police report they changed their story to pulling us over for having fuzzy dice on his rear view mirror.

Is all of this Legal? We were pulled over because they said they smelt I was slammed into my brothers car for listening to a cop, then handcuffed for nothing along with my brother to the point my wrist was bleeding. Then they searched the car without a warrant or permission and told my dad they were allowed to afterwards.
Bowen50
11/9/08 12:43:04PM
they're allowed to search the car if they have probable cause, but it sounds to me like they had absolutely no grounds to do so.
cmb19932
11/9/08 12:52:52PM
ya dude cops suck -cops
question 2

FrankTheTank1181
11/9/08 12:54:39PM
You should have offered to buy them doughnuts, they couldn't help but to be nice to you then.
jiujitsufreak74
11/9/08 12:59:00PM
it is just the way life is bro. your word against theirs. technically, they can't do anything without actual probably cause, but the doctrine for probable cause is so vague what they did happens all the time. if you had videotaped the entire thing, then they would have gotten in trouble which i for the purpose of this conversation makes it illegal i suppose. but again, when they report it they can make up w/e probable cause they want because like i said it is your word against theirs. it definitely didn't help that you had a pipe in your car though.

oh, and the police can search your car, just not your glove box.
Mitchell740
11/9/08 1:11:47PM
Well when police have their lights on, their built in video recorded is on. Their lights were on during the entire incedent so me being slammed into the car, handcuffed without reason and them searching his car without probable cause WAS recorded. I always thought cops that violate your rights were just stories until last night.

I will keep that glove box thing in mind.
mikevolz
11/9/08 1:20:09PM
it is very illegal what they did,

you have to determine how much pride you have, and how much you want to fight it. You could invest a lot of time and get them screwed over, or have a chance of nothing happening.

Sometimes the truth has the power to over come these sorts of his words vs. mine.

i'd be willing to be they've done things like this in the past and been cited for it.

its your choice, a lot of people don't choose to fight, because it isn't worth their time and effort.
cmb19932
11/9/08 1:28:39PM
people dont fight because they wont win
bullettdodger
11/9/08 1:30:22PM
Actually my sister is a lawyer and they can search your glove box, it is only the trunk that they can't unless they have reason to. But all these laws are tailored to help the cops not us average citizens... I mean i got one of these stories myself where i was thrown in the drunk tank for 8 hours because i asked some cops to help me find a cab to get home... Wheres the protecting and serving in that?!?!?!
postman
11/9/08 1:36:15PM
I want everyone to understand that I don't feel this way about all cops but what happened to the days of Gomer pyle? The cop was your friend and was there to protect you. Now its you aginst the cops. Its bull! Now your brothers name will be in the paper for possesion of drug paraphnela cause he had a pipe to smoke weed, not a crack pipe not a burnt spoon not a needle its rediculous.
jiujitsufreak74
11/9/08 1:52:25PM

Posted by bullettdodger

Actually my sister is a lawyer and they can search your glove box, it is only the trunk that they can't unless they have reason to. But all these laws are tailored to help the cops not us average citizens... I mean i got one of these stories myself where i was thrown in the drunk tank for 8 hours because i asked some cops to help me find a cab to get home... Wheres the protecting and serving in that?!?!?!



i'm not saying your sister is incorrect, but in my law class we learned that they cannot search your glove box unless it is open or they have a warrant

EDIT: i think there is a happy medum here. they can't search your glove box unless you give consent, they have a warrant or if they have a credible suspicion that you have illegal substances within it (this suspicion must be backed in court)

Lawyer explains this concept
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
11/9/08 1:56:18PM
That shit wouldnt fly in canada , thats for sure.
telnights
11/9/08 2:12:02PM
Well this is very much depends on what state you live in. But if your side of the story is true get a lawyer and sue your police department. If your dad and you all have no criminal back grounds there a good chance you could win. It also depends on if you live in a big city or a small town. See if your story is true the cops cause for pulling you over is very weak and searching your car also for the same reason is also weak. So that means he violated your basic rights. But if this happened in a small town there no point in doing anything because the judge will see in favor of his cops over you all day long. So I wouldn't even bother pressing charges because you just give the bad cop grounds to do it again if its a small town. I want to say most cops are really good guys and as a x-cop myself I can tell you it just takes one bad apple to make the hole tree look bad.
Pskinner_mma314
11/9/08 2:12:55PM
Damn dude, talk about sum shit. What they did was very illegal, from the start, sayin they smelled alcohol as u drove by. what they were tryin to do was catch ya'll doin some other shit and then change up their report to match that suspicion.

I work at a bar and I see cops just sittin outside the bar all the time just waitin for people to leave(which I personally think is wrong), but they will just sit there and wait and just pull people over randomly for makin the littlest mistakes......then all the bs starts.
tdietel01
11/9/08 2:49:29PM
it all sounds like a realy shitty experience. dont let it be an example of all police. there are dicks in every profession and alot of policehave little man syndrome and love the power. as for the handcuffs...... I dont think you have anything on that. police cuff people for there own protection, even if it was a little tight they will say if you just stayed still it wouldnthave bothered you. You should at least contact a lawyer and see what ur options are.
bullettdodger
11/9/08 2:57:55PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74

i'm not saying your sister is incorrect, but in my law class we learned that they cannot search your glove box unless it is open or they have a warrant

EDIT: i think there is a happy medum here. they can't search your glove box unless you give consent, they have a warrant or if they have a credible suspicion that you have illegal substances within it (this suspicion must be backed in court)

Lawyer explains this concept



Yeah I think we agree here too, cops can be sneaky about getting consent or fudge with probable cause. At any rate if they want to do it, there pretty much isn't a damn thing you can do about it. I'm also not trying to blame a whole profession based on the actions of a few, but so many people who are cops are constantly on a power trip that they make it impossible to like them, or even believe that they are here to help to begin with. It is just my opinion that everyone who says they want to become a cop to help people is full of it, you want to help someone become a firefighter...
Jackelope
11/9/08 3:03:21PM
With you reaching into your pockets I can see why he'd take it as a threat and put you in cuffs. He didn't say "reach into your pockets and get what it is in them" he said "What is in your pockets?" As for the tightness of the cuffs- from my experience cuffs are never comfortable and they will always be tight. Even if they're only remotely tight anybody can wiggle around a bit and cut themselves with them. Not saying that's what you did- but I personally feel like it's a weak argument.

So even though it's not exactly right what he did, I'm sure it's well within his rights as a police officer to cuff you.

The rest of that stuff I'm not too certain about
loller90278
11/9/08 4:15:19PM
what's done is done, you can't turn back time. what you CAN do is get that shit repealed and make the police officers sweat a bit.

first what i would do is contact the police headquarters, and ask for them to give a DISCOVERY of the ticket. that means you'll have whatever notes the police officers took during the stint. this gives you some leverage to ask them questions on how the weather was, or what color your car or things like that. then i'd get their badge numbers and file a formal complaint with the police station.

and the good thing is that (believe it or not) most judges in court usually tend to give the ruling for the citizens. judges arent dumb, they know that cops lie. if you tell your side of the story, especially with your dads story, your injuries from being handcuffed *i'd take a picture right now* chances are that they'll repeal the paraphanalia thing if they didn't have probable cause.


Mitchell740
11/9/08 4:25:52PM
[ you want to help someone become a firefighter...


Kind of funny, I'm going to school to be a firefighter after I graduate.

As for our records, we all have COMPLETELY clean records including my brother (aside from 2 speeding tickets)

They found the pipe in the center console, (which closes) obviously not a place they would look if they were searching the car for a bottle of alcohol. We are in a suburb/city area so hopefully that will help in case.

I understand cops have a job to do, I have been let off completely before when the cops could have charged me with underaged drinking. (I was had just gotten in my friends dads car when a high school party was being broken up)

This was more than the average traffic stop "What are you guys doing tonight? Have you been drinking?" run ID's and "have a nice night and be safe"

Three cops swarmed the car, accuseing us of being drunk, then asking whose car it was several times as if we had stolen it, then asking if we had marijuanna and searching without consent, probable cause or warrant.

I always hear a cops job is to de-escalate a situation, but they provoked every way they could to escalate it and tried to piss us off and get us to admit to things we hadn't done.

One cop asked me when the last time I smoked marijuanna was, I told him never and he said "Don't lie, everyone has, I bet even your dad has."

Honestly it seemed like Reno 911 cops or Officer Rivieri had pulled us over.

If you don't know who Rivieri is, look at the video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgWrV8TcUc
mrsmiley
11/9/08 5:30:25PM

Posted by tdietel01

it all sounds like a realy shitty experience. dont let it be an example of all police. there are dicks in every profession and alot of policehave little man syndrome and love the power. as for the handcuffs...... I dont think you have anything on that. police cuff people for there own protection, even if it was a little tight they will say if you just stayed still it wouldnthave bothered you. You should at least contact a lawyer and see what ur options are.



I agree.

I went to school with 2 kids who were constatnly picked on and guess what?

Their police Officers now and think their shit don't stink.One of them happened to get knocked out at a local dairy mart a few months ago too.

I can't say that of all cops though.Their are quiete a few though
zephead
11/9/08 5:31:59PM

Posted by cmb19932

ya dude cops suck -cops
question 2




I'll let my wife know that.
FrankTheTank1181
11/9/08 5:34:10PM
What kind of car were you guys in? Cops are known to profile "warrant wagons". Cars that are older, may have dents, cracked windshields and such. They pull these cars over in the hopes the person(s) inside have warrants or drugs/booze on them. Cops nowadays are on power trips, it's disgusting.
zephead
11/9/08 5:58:00PM

Posted by FrankTheTank1181

What kind of car were you guys in? Cops are known to profile "warrant wagons". Cars that are older, may have dents, cracked windshields and such. They pull these cars over in the hopes the person(s) inside have warrants or drugs/booze on them. Cops nowadays are on power trips, it's disgusting.




It has nothing to do with all the assholes out there. My wife is a fraud detective and thatnk god for that. If I had to deal with half the crap she did I know I would have capped quite a few people. Assholes are on a power trip
dannyfrank
11/9/08 6:03:19PM
im sorry about that dude. most cops aren't this bad. the problem is that the only ones you hear about are the assholes who choke skateboarders, beat suspects for no reason, and taser people to death. for the most part, cops like this are few and far between
cmb19932
11/9/08 6:43:21PM

I'll let my wife know that.



nothing personal but from my experiance cops suck sorry im sure theres a few out there who still protect and serve and have a sense of morals but on a whole as far as iv seen cops suck
Mitchell740
11/9/08 7:40:17PM

Posted by FrankTheTank1181

What kind of car were you guys in? Cops are known to profile "warrant wagons". Cars that are older, may have dents, cracked windshields and such. They pull these cars over in the hopes the person(s) inside have warrants or drugs/booze on them. Cops nowadays are on power trips, it's disgusting.



We were in an older Buick, a little beat up, but VERY clean, my brother runs a car detailing business. It was also painted a few months ago. It is a bit louder though because hes always messing with his muffler.
bigbubbano23
11/9/08 11:19:01PM
there are some real d bags out there and it's beyond me how they pass the psychology test. but one thing i v'e learned from reading law books for college is if there is a law against what they did they can change it. iam not talkin serious stuff but they have ways of "interpreting" the law. that citizens can't prepare for.
jakeiceman
11/10/08 2:45:28AM
As far as the thread, you should fight it man. I fully encourage you too, believe it or not, good cops HATE dirty cops. They make us look bad and give normal citizens (you) a bad perspective about the police. If I worked with someone that I knew was violating someone's rights I would turn them in in a heartbeat. Dont let this put a bad taste in your mouth. For every cop that is an asshole there are 10 more who would be willing to do anything for you.

Excersise your rights and give fighting it a shot. You might not win but atleast YOU did what was right. You cant control everyone's actions, even the police


To my other boys in blue on the site.........

EDIT: Sorry that was all opinion I didnt really help with a few of your questions.

1) The reason for stopping the car sounds like garbage which makes everything I'm about to say "fruit of the poisonous tree" (which pretty much means that the evidence (fruit) found after was "poisonous" because the reason for the stop, (the tree) itself was not based on facts)

2) If they had reasonable suspicion that there were drugs or alcohol in the car the did have some basis for searching the car without consent (remember though of the poisonous tree I spoke of )

3) It sound like they cited your bro for possession of paraphernalia which atleast in my state is considered and "arrest" even if they did not take him into custody. Which in turn gives them the right to do a search incident to arrest. Some judges though do not want you to search vehicle if you are going to cite and release them.

4) The glove box misconception. You have all the right to search in a glovebox.....if it is unlocked. If it is locked your going to most likely need a search warrant. BUT for all of you who think your just going to hide your drugs and guns in your glovebox and tell the cops to pound sand when they ask to search it, drug dogs are smarter than you are and if they smell it, in most cases a search warrant is a phone call away. The bottom line is that if you got yourself in the position where your car needs to be searched....its going to get searched one way or another because if i smell marijuana in a car and ask to search and they say go for it....] but you cant look in my glovebox ,I'm going to search it eventually anyway.

Your case though really is extraordinary if what you say in fact did happen. Like I said most cops are not like that and you should not worry in the future. A tip for people though. Be cool and cooperate, it goes along way.

Hope this helps bud.
jakeiceman
11/10/08 5:46:13AM

Posted by bullettdodger

It is just my opinion that everyone who says they want to become a cop to help people is full of it, you want to help someone become a firefighter...



Ha ha oh no you didn't!!!! Dude dont make me bust out the fire fighter jokes (I know there are just as many about cops)

emfleek
11/10/08 9:50:44AM
Drugs are bad. Mmmkay?
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