UFC Is Considering A Smaller Octagon

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DCRage
10/8/09 1:06:53PM
Evidently not wanting to see a sequel to "Run Kalib Run!" from UFC 83, Dana White recently said that he & Joe Silva are talking about making the Octagon UFC uses for fights smaller. No specifics mentioned yet except Dana thinks Silva wants to turn it "into a [expletive] bathtub. Have them fight in a little tollbooth."

Article
Giant_Ochai
10/8/09 1:14:21PM
It is way too big inside. It destroyed Mirko's game.
Mayhem13
10/8/09 1:22:07PM

Posted by Giant_Ochai

It is way too big inside. It destroyed Mirko's game.



I wish people would stop making excuses for cro cop....the size might have been new to him, but that alone did not ruin his game
McBee
10/8/09 1:30:18PM
I think it is BS, keep it the same size, the booing and ruining of his career is a deterrent to another "run Kalib run" fight and I do not like the thought of people "using the cage" more, they already use it enough and as big as it is we get more unhindered slugfests and grappling tumbles and I think it makes it more grand then the small cages I have seen while watching small shows on YouTube.

Dana just wants more room for high priced floor seats.
bigbubbano23
10/8/09 1:34:00PM
i hope lesnar still fits
emfleek
10/8/09 1:34:45PM
Smaller cage = more seats sold

It's gonna happen.
scoozna
10/8/09 1:39:05PM
This may be a silly objection, but the smaller cage size would make it look like a small-time promotion.
DCRage
10/8/09 1:42:30PM

Posted by bigbubbano23

i hope lesnar still fits


He will:
emfleek
10/8/09 1:44:03PM
If this happens, I doubt it would be a drastic change. Maybe a foot off around the edges? I doubt it would be too noticeable.

As long as they don't start using the 6 inch padding/cushion for the mat like small orgs do, I'll be okay with it.
MMAcca
10/8/09 1:49:04PM
If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

Waste. Of. Time.
Rush
10/8/09 2:01:41PM
I don't see how a minor change to the size will have an impact on the problem(s) that are mentioned. As for more seats, that is not a justified reason. Just find a bigger venue if you want to fill more seats. Besides, how many more seats can you put in there by shaving off a few feet from each side? Not much.

I think the UFC should focus more on getting the best fighters in their org. rather than these mickey mouse things.
cowcatcher
10/8/09 2:15:56PM

Posted by Rush

I think the UFC should focus more on getting the best fighters in their org. rather than these mickey mouse things.



to be fair, they have a business model that is working, they are selling out venue after venue, they have a highly successful show, and they have about 75% of the top tier fighters out there maybe more. at this point small little changes are really all they have to make because a major overhaul isnt in order but they want to continue to improve the product. whether or not this does a lot in terms of the quality of the shows i dont know, but its a few extra bucks in their coffers and thats good business.
bjj1605
10/8/09 2:18:02PM
This is a terrible idea. Using distance and space is a part of many fighters game. For those who like to fight in close or against the cage the onus is on them to cut off the ring. Machida is a great fighter who uses the whole octagon to his advantage. There is no good reason for doing this. It all comes down to greed, more seats and more money.
Rush
10/8/09 2:21:44PM

Posted by cowcatcher


Posted by Rush

I think the UFC should focus more on getting the best fighters in their org. rather than these mickey mouse things.



to be fair, they have a business model that is working, they are selling out venue after venue, they have a highly successful show, and they have about 75% of the top tier fighters out there maybe more. at this point small little changes are really all they have to make because a major overhaul isnt in order but they want to continue to improve the product. whether or not this does a lot in terms of the quality of the shows i dont know, but its a few extra bucks in their coffers and thats good business.




I agree to an extent. However, until I see the cessation of fighters, that have little or no fighting experience, fighting in the UFC, when at the same time there are clearly better and more experienced fighters out there, I still think there is big work for the UFC to do.

That being said, if all is well, why take a risk changing something that is working?
jgtribbett
10/8/09 2:22:53PM
funny stuff, may be a good idea, i enjoy watching wec, why not
cowcatcher
10/8/09 2:27:44PM

Posted by Rush

That being said, if all is well, why take a risk changing something that is working?



i think thats the best argument out there against this, i was just playing devils advocate. the thing about some of these guys that are relative unknowns is that you might find a guy like shane carwin that looks like he could be something special, but unfortunately most of the relative unknowns are that way for a reason, they arent ufc quality fighters.
Rush
10/8/09 2:29:01PM

Posted by bjj1605

It all comes down to greed, more seats and more money.




Less octagon floor space means less/smaller advertising.

That is why I don't think it's a matter of money and space. I really think they genuinely hope that it will improve the sport (we'll let's say improve the entertainment factor for most of the fans). I'm just not convinced it will have the impact they think it will. I also think it would cause as many problems as it would solve.
Rush
10/8/09 2:40:57PM

Posted by cowcatcher

i think thats the best argument out there against this, i was just playing devils advocate. the thing about some of these guys that are relative unknowns is that you might find a guy like shane carwin that looks like he could be something special, but unfortunately most of the relative unknowns are that way for a reason, they arent ufc quality fighters.



I expanded on this issue with a post that was posted concurrently with yours.

Regarding the fighters (your second point) I agree in hindsight that works, but a) how many cans does the UFC need to go through to find one gem and b) what is wrong with them being discovered in the WEC. I know the WEC needs heavier weight classes, but I don't see the harm in using the WEC to foster up and coming fighters (including the less than elite TUF members) to see if they are ready for the UFC. A cooperative effort between TUF and the WEC could really breathe new life into both companies.

Then again, going back to what you mentioned, if the UFC is doing fine as is, why would they feel the need to tinker with it... (even though I personally feel that their business model is not built off of what they claim it to be in their PR)
cowcatcher
10/8/09 2:48:27PM
they do need to keep some guys around to feed to their stars when they have taken a couple of losses in a row, there are certain guys they just cant lose, and a win can go a long way to getting a guy back on track.
StorminYourman
10/8/09 2:48:32PM
I am against it but who knows my mind could be changed
Rush
10/8/09 2:59:50PM

Posted by cowcatcher

they do need to keep some guys around to feed to their stars when they have taken a couple of losses in a row, there are certain guys they just cant lose, and a win can go a long way to getting a guy back on track.




I know why they (the UFC) do it. I just don't personally believe in the fights involving stars and cannon fodder fighters. then again, I don't jump off a fighter's bandwagon because he lost a couple fights in a row against other top guys. I think if fighter has lost enough to warrant him a fight with a guy not of UFC calibre, he shouldn't be in the UFC (at that time).

Again, I understand that the UFC wants can sell a big name fighting with a can and wants to prevent smaller orgs from using the big names themselves, but I really think if Elite fighter x has lost against UFC fighters (going down the UFC ladder,) he should fight Joe Boxer in a smaller org, not in the UFC undercard.

That being said, I don't think two way contracts (with the WEC) would be a bad idea for this type of thing.
cowcatcher
10/8/09 3:07:03PM
i agree, but they really dont seem to want to make the WEC a "feeder league". i think down the road that just might happen, but im also thinking that the bubble will burst on this sport just like the poker craze if it doesnt constantly reinvent itself.
Rush
10/8/09 3:14:31PM

Posted by cowcatcher

i agree, but they really dont seem to want to make the WEC a "feeder league".

i think down the road that just might happen, but im also thinking that the bubble will burst on this sport just like the poker craze if it doesnt constantly reinvent itself.



On your first point, do you have any thoughts as to why that is the case (other than that Dana has said so in the past)?

On the second point, I agree, but I think that possibility is why people will consider MMA more of a spectacle than a sport. I think there should be more structure, which would include a "minor league".
prozacnation1978
10/8/09 3:16:59PM
i say don't do it but if they do just move it in like 3 feet in at the most
seanfu
10/8/09 3:21:40PM
That idea is fukking retarded. One of the greatest things about Elite XC was the circular cage which was noticably larger and had minimal cage interferance.

If guys like Lyoto, Anderson, Shogun, have to fight in a smaller range then that kills an intelligent striking game. I biases the cage EVEN MORE than it currently is toward wrestlers.

I mean, think about it, in ring fighting promotions how many outstanding wrestlers are there that can be successful with pure wrestling and maybe some GnP??? Now look at cage promotions, how much more effective is wrestling, and how much more dominant are they???

This is rediculous. If the UFC really needs 10000$ seats that ******* much while they rake in millions multiple times a month then the UFC in no better than Showtime hosting boxing.

God save the sport of MMA if it deteriorates in this fashion as greed begins to take a firm hold in the heart of the sport.

I am disgusted.

Changing the cage to even a small degree can change the UFC entirely.
cowcatcher
10/8/09 3:24:22PM
i really dont know why they wouldnt make the WEC their equivalent of AAA baseball, i think at this point they are using it to showcase, and measure interest in smaller weight classes. at some point they will have enough legit stars where that wont be necessary anymore and a change will probably be considered. i think they are also very leery of the fact that other things like rival promotions and poker have seen the bottom fall out and they want to avoid that so they are very calculating in just about everything they do, and sometimes seem unwilling to do things that the fans and sometimes fighters call for like unions, better pay, signing certain guys for too much money, etc. for all the things that get said about dana, he has proven that he is an extremely shrewd businessman and he doesnt make many major mistakes because he is so aware that failure is just a bad move or two away in a young sport that still has a "fad" label in many circles.
landstander
10/8/09 5:01:53PM
I have never gone to a live cage fight show but I hear it is harder to see whats going on than in the ring. They should concentrate on making it better for the live spectators first.
cowcatcher
10/8/09 5:04:13PM

Posted by landstander

I have never gone to a live cage fight show but I hear it is harder to see whats going on than in the ring. They should concentrate on making it better for the live spectators first.



thing is, the live spectators dont bring in the revenue that the PPV audience does so they are the last people the ufc is thinking about in terms of logistics.
CwB
10/8/09 5:25:25PM

Posted by seanfu

It biases the cage EVEN MORE than it currently is toward wrestlers.




Smaller cage equals good thing for wrestlers...

sidenote
thank you rush and cowcatcher for a great debate which brought up numerous points for both causes
Sinister
10/8/09 6:02:28PM
Wasn't the TUF 9 finale's cage smaller? I don't see why people would like this. Anyone in favor of a ring to me would like a bigger cage. That way, strikers still have an advantage of staying hear the middle to avoid be pushed against the wall and taken down.
A smaller cage to me is a bad idea. Keep it the way it is.
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