Do you consider these to be legitimate wins?

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fullerene
2/20/08 9:07:40AM
A) Coleman over Fujita
B) Harold Howard over Royce Gracie
C) Koshaka over Fedor (first fight)
D) Belfot over Couture (second fight)
E) Nogueira over Fedor (second fight)
DCRage
2/20/08 9:43:22AM
The only one of those I've seen is B, and that one, to me, is a definite no. It was really little more than a forfeit/walkover since Gracie's corner threw in the towel before the fight officially started.
puppetmaster837
2/20/08 10:00:35AM
I have seen Belfort vs. Couture and i dont think that was. The fight was stopped in like 30 seconds because he got a really bad thumb in the eye, that definately should have been a NC
fullerene
2/20/08 10:06:23AM
I'll add descriptions of each fight for help:

A) Fighter is injured in previous fight (tournament) but comes out at the bell, takes a few stumblig steps and his corner throws in the towel before any contact is made

B) Fighters come into the ring but one corner waves off their tired/injured fighter before the round starts

C) Fighters engage for about 20-30 seconds without much offense but a previous injury (cut) opens up and the fight is stopped.

D) Fighters engage for about 20-30 seconds when one fighter lands a glancing blow which causes a fight-ending injury (eyelid slice). Otherwise no real offense in the fight

E) Back and forth fight for a couple of minutes when a cut from a headbutt (I think?) on one fighter stops the fight. Fight is ruled a no contest.
Rush
2/20/08 2:51:14PM
A) Fighter is injured in previous fight (tournament) but comes out at the bell, takes a few stumblig steps and his corner throws in the towel before any contact is made

I assume that if corner towel stoppages are allowed, then they are official. I am not going to pretend that I know, what's best for the fighter, better than their corner. It's a loss on paper, but the fighter was not beat. That being said, a fighter is given the chance to not continue due to injury prior to the fight, which would not have resulted in a loss or even an official NC. If a fighter is going to come into the ring and have a towel thrown in, then they must be expected to accept a loss on paper.


B) Fighters come into the ring but one corner waves off their tired/injured fighter before the round starts

see above.

C) Fighters engage for about 20-30 seconds without much offense but a previous injury (cut) opens up and the fight is stopped.

A cut is a cut, the way I look at it. Unless it was made in a way that broke the rules, it is still a loss by a cut.

D) Fighters engage for about 20-30 seconds when one fighter lands a glancing blow which causes a fight-ending injury (eyelid slice). Otherwise no real offense in the fight

If the blow was ruled accidental, then a loss should be incurred. I would say differently had there not been a number of previous fights allowed to contiue after accidental eye pokes. A scratched eyelid does not seem like any more serious than a typical eye poke and the fighter should have been given a standard recovery time of 5 min. Now if it was a scratched retina, then that is a reason for a NC ruling.

E) Back and forth fight for a couple of minutes when a cut from a headbutt (I think?) on one fighter stops the fight. Fight is ruled a no contest.

Assuming the strike was a headbutt. If the headbutt was intentional then the fighter that executed it should get the loss. If it was an accidental head collision, then a NC is an appropriate ruling.



All in all, I am not taking into consideration that any of the towel throw ins could have been fixed or influenced in some way
cmill21
2/20/08 3:33:13PM
The TK over Fedor fight was an illegal elbow, or am I remembering it wrong?
Rush
2/20/08 7:14:50PM

Posted by cmill21

The TK over Fedor fight was an illegal elbow, or am I remembering it wrong?




I think so. So by my analogy, because it was illegal then it should have been a NC, not a loss.
richieb19
2/20/08 7:21:33PM
A and B yes, it was their choice to forefiet later in order to recieve higher pay. TK would have owned Fedor in Rings regardless...
Pookie
2/21/08 12:42:32AM
Not one of them.
Pookie
2/21/08 12:43:51AM

Posted by Rush


Posted by cmill21

The TK over Fedor fight was an illegal elbow, or am I remembering it wrong?




I think so. So by my analogy, because it was illegal then it should have been a NC, not a loss.



yeah it was in a tournament though remember? Someone had to move on to the next round, and Fedor wasnt "fit" to do so.
Rush
2/21/08 9:07:44PM
Oh I know the premise for giving Fedor the loss, but in terms of the actual fight, I don't think it should have been a loss, regardless of the tournament rules.

Award it a NC and say that Fedor could not continue due to injury and let TK continue.
BlazinSaddle
2/21/08 9:47:57PM
the NC was Nog over Fedor, i thought it was the other way around?!? wow, anyway none of them are, except i havnt seen coleman's win over fujita
bls1919
2/21/08 9:55:59PM
all i have to say is : In the cage/ring a cut is a cut, a stopage is a stopage , a submission is a submission (weather it be from the fighter or not), and a loss is a LOSS! period
Pookie
2/21/08 10:00:18PM

Posted by bls1919

all i have to say is : In the cage/ring a cut is a cut, a stopage is a stopage , a submission is a submission (weather it be from the fighter or not), and a loss is a LOSS! period



So getting a massive cut by an elbow thats not allowed to be thrown should be a loss, and the victor deserves the win?
C'mon dude...
Boo_Radley21
2/21/08 10:11:27PM
He definitely didn't throw an elbow from what I saw. It looked more like he threw a punch, missed, and his arm came by and clipped his head.
hippysmacker
2/22/08 2:26:42AM

Posted by fullerene

A) Coleman over Fujita
B) Harold Howard over Royce Gracie
C) Koshaka over Fedor (first fight)
D) Belfot over Couture (second fight)
E) Nogueira over Fedor (second fight)



No to all , and I'm certain the Nig/fedor 2 was ruled a no-contest. Any of the tournament ones ,due to previous injuries ,are the reason I think no tournaments should happen with a guy fighting more than once per card.
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