Closed Guard

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bayonetxwork
11/11/07 7:08:27PM
So just recently I've been training with some way bigger/stronger guys in preparation for an openweight class, and I've had a lot of trouble in the closed guard with a much stronger guy. Any recommendations on finding a way to open the guard up, and possibilities to pass?
loonytnt
11/11/07 11:35:16PM
dont get in it is #1, bigger guys i try to pass fisrt
Omega
11/12/07 12:22:12AM
If they manage to close there guard around you drive your hips in and under theirs to elevate them off the ground. There's a submission named "The Quasimodo" I use it to open guys guards up. You could also walk a person forwardand over their head. Of course I'm making the assumption that this is no gi, none of these work well in gi tournaments.
Svartorm
11/12/07 4:32:10AM
What were you doing for guard passes before that aren't working on bigger guys? It might be best to modify and/or drill something you're already comfortable with, rather than learn a whole new set of guard passes, if you don't have to.
fullerene
11/12/07 8:37:07AM
It's tough to give answers that might be condescending if you don't tell us what you're doing right now. I'll start with the basics:

1. You need to posture up so your shoulders are pointing towards the ceiling--no way you'll pass if your head is lying on his chest.

2. Keep both arms in tight and try to work your elbows down the inside of his thighs and into his groin to pry the legs open a bit and give you space. There are a lot of nerves there and many guys will squirm with the pressure and open their legs slightly which gives you space to move

3. You can exaggerate the benefits of good posture by popping up to your feet into something like a squat position. Many guys will let go then because they feel the pressure, but if not you may have extra room to shuck the legs or you can walk forward and put them on their head/shoulders.


If those things don't work the guy is pretty good and/or dedicated to holding you in place. There are some specific moves (like reaching back and pressing down on the top foot to lock the guys ankles or canopeners) which I'd avoid using if you're at the beginner level.
Jackelope
11/13/07 2:23:22AM
Prolly gonna be hard to can open a guy if he's that much bigger than you.

I'm 165 and occasionally grapple with a guy at our gym who's 265. It's tough as hell getting out of his guard, but it can be done. Walking him over is doable, but a lot of times against a big guy like that he will just keep you locked down and once you attempt the walk over he'll squeeze even harder and put himself in a position to start messing with your legs. I don't know about you guys, but I HATE leg submissions and do what I can to avoid them.

Now, this works for me against our big guys, but there's no answer for everybody. I usually just wait until he attempts to put me in a submission or change his position before I make my move. Having smaller legs and arms and being quicker in general helps me slide out of his lockdowns. If he attempts to go rubber on me I'll be waiting for that foot to post on my hip and I'll quickly slide my leg around and begin a butterfly style pass. If he goes for the triangle I'll back out of it and schuck his legs to get into side control.

There are a ton of options, and of course they will all come in time (I'm no veteran like some of the guys around here are) but I can tell you that there's no one great answer and any time I ever find myself in a position that I can't get out of instead of panicking and feeling helpless I relax and wait for the other guy to make a mistake. The one thing I've found about grappling a lot bigger guy is that when he sweeps you he's gonna have a lot more difficulty riding your weight around for top position, which leaves a few extra milliseconds to make your move.
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