Clay Guida wuz robbed, yo.

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AchillesHeel
6/16/07 9:13:39PM
No, really. I was genuinely shocked when they gave it to Griffin. Clay took the 2nd and 3rd rounds, I thought. I just dunno sometimes...
Gkizi
6/16/07 9:26:04PM
I was pissed off when they announced Tyson as the winner.

Guida clearly won the second and the third round.
thelastking
6/16/07 10:24:31PM
I dont know it was a really close fight. The first round was definitely Griffins and the third was definitely Guidas. The second round was a toss up Griffin was winning it then Guida started taking over towards the end of the round. I could easily see why 2 judges scored it for Griffin although i thought Guida won. By the way this fight was exciting and i cant wait to see Guidas and Griffins next fights.
Stickan
6/16/07 10:43:12PM
I was very happy with the judges scoring this night. IMO Griffin won that fight.
As everybody else I scored the 1st rd. to Griffin and 2nd to Guida.

In the third Griffin was getting the better and almost dominating the stand-up and also landed a few semi-hard blows on the mat. Up until about 2:30.. the fight was his. Then Guida maintained top control for the rest of the fight but IMO did nothing with it. He didn't land any significant strikes and wasn't close with any submission attempts.
In the end he flurried a bit but that was more of a panic flurry than anything damaging but that was his highlight of the round IMO.

Since people tend to judge on what they last saw they think Guida won that fight but I agree with the judges.
Griffin controlled the first half standing up
Guida controlled the latter half on the ground.
The difference is that Griffin did more damage and was more active in my opinion.
C-MurdA
6/16/07 10:55:57PM
ya it was close but still
EvilScott
6/17/07 12:05:47AM
"Robbed" implies a clear-cut victory that is blatantly given to the wrong fighter. That fight was much too close to be a "robbery". It could have gone either way.
KYGUY07
6/17/07 12:07:51AM
Anyway you look at it, it was still a great fight.
johny_rotten
6/17/07 12:10:47AM

Posted by Stickan

I was very happy with the judges scoring this night. IMO Griffin won that fight.
As everybody else I scored the 1st rd. to Griffin and 2nd to Guida.

In the third Griffin was getting the better and almost dominating the stand-up and also landed a few semi-hard blows on the mat. Up until about 2:30.. the fight was his. Then Guida maintained top control for the rest of the fight but IMO did nothing with it. He didn't land any significant strikes and wasn't close with any submission attempts.
In the end he flurried a bit but that was more of a panic flurry than anything damaging but that was his highlight of the round IMO.

Since people tend to judge on what they last saw they think Guida won that fight but I agree with the judges.
Griffin controlled the first half standing up
Guida controlled the latter half on the ground.
The difference is that Griffin did more damage and was more active in my opinion.



Props to you because that is exacxtly what happend. I don't know why it is that the fans and usually judges only think the last minute of a round is what is important? Tyson controlled the round longer taking the fist 3 minutes, and Clay came on for the final two.

Either way this was a great fight, the only one of the night, and there will be no real loser. Both will be back in the UFC, and a rematch could be very apealing.
Trapt1nw0nder
6/17/07 12:55:13AM

Posted by johny_rotten


Posted by Stickan

I was very happy with the judges scoring this night. IMO Griffin won that fight.
As everybody else I scored the 1st rd. to Griffin and 2nd to Guida.

In the third Griffin was getting the better and almost dominating the stand-up and also landed a few semi-hard blows on the mat. Up until about 2:30.. the fight was his. Then Guida maintained top control for the rest of the fight but IMO did nothing with it. He didn't land any significant strikes and wasn't close with any submission attempts.
In the end he flurried a bit but that was more of a panic flurry than anything damaging but that was his highlight of the round IMO.

Since people tend to judge on what they last saw they think Guida won that fight but I agree with the judges.
Griffin controlled the first half standing up
Guida controlled the latter half on the ground.
The difference is that Griffin did more damage and was more active in my opinion.



Props to you because that is exacxtly what happend. I don't know why it is that the fans and usually judges only think the last minute of a round is what is important? Tyson controlled the round longer taking the fist 3 minutes, and Clay came on for the final two.

Either way this was a great fight, the only one of the night, and there will be no real loser. Both will be back in the UFC, and a rematch could be very apealing.



I totally agree too...Props Stickan

I was gonna say the same,but you beat me to if

Props to Guida too for putting on a hell of a show,and for not complaining at the slightest about the decision even though everyone was booing the decision........I gotta admit,i had Guida winning the last 2 rounds too till i watched the fight again,and the Judges only had 1 look at it...........im sure you noticed that Griffin had won most of the 3rd after rewatching it too(Stickan) just how i did......by saying exactly how griffin started losing at the 2;30 mark.

Northrend
6/17/07 1:24:03AM
Yeah he should have won...damn I had him winning by UD as well!!!!


That was a sick fight though, Guida has so much energy!
MattHughesFan
6/17/07 2:32:38AM
Yeah i had Tyson winning by a UD but i was kinda surprised he won, i mean it was a great and close fight an all but i thought Guida won then again Tyson Griffin is well known in the UFC so seeing the judges give it to him after a close fight isn't to surprising now that i think about it
aceprone
6/17/07 2:35:42AM

Posted by Stickan

I was very happy with the judges scoring this night. IMO Griffin won that fight.
As everybody else I scored the 1st rd. to Griffin and 2nd to Guida.

In the third Griffin was getting the better and almost dominating the stand-up and also landed a few semi-hard blows on the mat. Up until about 2:30.. the fight was his. Then Guida maintained top control for the rest of the fight but IMO did nothing with it. He didn't land any significant strikes and wasn't close with any submission attempts.
In the end he flurried a bit but that was more of a panic flurry than anything damaging but that was his highlight of the round IMO.

Since people tend to judge on what they last saw they think Guida won that fight but I agree with the judges.
Griffin controlled the first half standing up
Guida controlled the latter half on the ground.
The difference is that Griffin did more damage and was more active in my opinion.



completely agree. Win I first watched the fight I did think Guida won, but when my roommate convieced me revaluate the third round, griffin was mostly in control most of the round untile the last minute or so and Guida didn't do much from the top position. But what great technical ground fight. I love fights like this! WAR 155!
hippysmacker
6/17/07 2:40:48AM

Posted by Stickan

I was very happy with the judges scoring this night. IMO Griffin won that fight.
As everybody else I scored the 1st rd. to Griffin and 2nd to Guida.

In the third Griffin was getting the better and almost dominating the stand-up and also landed a few semi-hard blows on the mat. Up until about 2:30.. the fight was his. Then Guida maintained top control for the rest of the fight but IMO did nothing with it. He didn't land any significant strikes and wasn't close with any submission attempts.
In the end he flurried a bit but that was more of a panic flurry than anything damaging but that was his highlight of the round IMO.

Since people tend to judge on what they last saw they think Guida won that fight but I agree with the judges.
Griffin controlled the first half standing up
Guida controlled the latter half on the ground.
The difference is that Griffin did more damage and was more active in my opinion.



Couldn't have said it better myself
Aether
6/17/07 6:14:45AM
Griffin won the first and third rounds, guida may have finished strong but tyson was dominant for longer in the final round.
EEKS
6/17/07 7:24:00AM
Im happy , i got my points!
grappler0000
6/17/07 7:48:31AM

Posted by Stickan

I was very happy with the judges scoring this night. IMO Griffin won that fight.
As everybody else I scored the 1st rd. to Griffin and 2nd to Guida.

In the third Griffin was getting the better and almost dominating the stand-up and also landed a few semi-hard blows on the mat. Up until about 2:30.. the fight was his. Then Guida maintained top control for the rest of the fight but IMO did nothing with it. He didn't land any significant strikes and wasn't close with any submission attempts.
In the end he flurried a bit but that was more of a panic flurry than anything damaging but that was his highlight of the round IMO.

Since people tend to judge on what they last saw they think Guida won that fight but I agree with the judges.
Griffin controlled the first half standing up
Guida controlled the latter half on the ground.
The difference is that Griffin did more damage and was more active in my opinion.



Agreed!
MMA
6/17/07 9:13:33AM

Posted by EvilScott

"Robbed" implies a clear-cut victory that is blatantly given to the wrong fighter. That fight was much too close to be a "robbery". It could have gone either way.


Exactly!
Stickan
6/17/07 9:56:12AM

Posted by Trapt1nw0nder


Posted by johny_rotten


Posted by Stickan

I was very happy with the judges scoring this night. IMO Griffin won that fight.
As everybody else I scored the 1st rd. to Griffin and 2nd to Guida.

In the third Griffin was getting the better and almost dominating the stand-up and also landed a few semi-hard blows on the mat. Up until about 2:30.. the fight was his. Then Guida maintained top control for the rest of the fight but IMO did nothing with it. He didn't land any significant strikes and wasn't close with any submission attempts.
In the end he flurried a bit but that was more of a panic flurry than anything damaging but that was his highlight of the round IMO.

Since people tend to judge on what they last saw they think Guida won that fight but I agree with the judges.
Griffin controlled the first half standing up
Guida controlled the latter half on the ground.
The difference is that Griffin did more damage and was more active in my opinion.



Props to you because that is exacxtly what happend. I don't know why it is that the fans and usually judges only think the last minute of a round is what is important? Tyson controlled the round longer taking the fist 3 minutes, and Clay came on for the final two.

Either way this was a great fight, the only one of the night, and there will be no real loser. Both will be back in the UFC, and a rematch could be very apealing.



I totally agree too...Props Stickan

I was gonna say the same,but you beat me to if

Props to Guida too for putting on a hell of a show,and for not complaining at the slightest about the decision even though everyone was booing the decision........I gotta admit,i had Guida winning the last 2 rounds too till i watched the fight again,and the Judges only had 1 look at it...........im sure you noticed that Griffin had won most of the 3rd after rewatching it too(Stickan) just how i did......by saying exactly how griffin started losing at the 2;30 mark.



Naw, havn't rewatched it yet since I watched it about 3-4 am. this morning. It was just that when Guida turned the tables I watched the clock to see how much was remaining in the round and if he had time to still win the fight.
I'm very surprised that Goldberg and especially Rogan were giving it to Guida. I think Goldbergs many comments about "if Guida continues like this he should win the fight, right Joe?" influenced Rogan a bit in the end.
AchillesHeel
6/17/07 10:23:26AM

Posted by AchillesHeel

No, really. I was genuinely shocked when they gave it to Griffin. Clay took the 2nd and 3rd rounds, I thought. I just dunno sometimes...


p.s. It was a great fight. I wasn't disappointed by the decision, just surprised. Looking at this card on paper, I actually thought this might be the best fight of the night, and boy-howdy! The Lightweight division is ka-razy right now.
chiefwiggum
6/17/07 10:36:46AM

Posted by Stickan

I was very happy with the judges scoring this night. IMO Griffin won that fight.
As everybody else I scored the 1st rd. to Griffin and 2nd to Guida.

In the third Griffin was getting the better and almost dominating the stand-up and also landed a few semi-hard blows on the mat. Up until about 2:30.. the fight was his. Then Guida maintained top control for the rest of the fight but IMO did nothing with it. He didn't land any significant strikes and wasn't close with any submission attempts.
In the end he flurried a bit but that was more of a panic flurry than anything damaging but that was his highlight of the round IMO.

Since people tend to judge on what they last saw they think Guida won that fight but I agree with the judges.
Griffin controlled the first half standing up
Guida controlled the latter half on the ground.
The difference is that Griffin did more damage and was more active in my opinion.




Very nice post. Guida did absolutely nothing with top control. In my opinion too much credit is given to a fighter for simply getting a take down. I don't think take downs should count for anything if you do nothing with them.
AchillesHeel
6/17/07 10:52:05AM

Posted by chiefwiggum

In my opinion too much credit is given to a fighter for simply getting a take down. I don't think take downs should count for anything if you do nothing with them.


I agree with you to a point, but I think you're going too far with it.

Controlling your opponent is - and should be, imo - part of the game. Clay Guida's performance wasn't unlike Forest Griffin's, in that respect. The main difference between the two fights was that Tyson Griffin was light-years better than Hector Ramirez.

It sometimes seems like wrestling is over-valued when compared to jiu-jitsu, and the argument people make on Tyson's behalf is that Guida actually wasn't controlling the fight. Many people said the same thing about Penn-St. Pierre, which went the other way, and the wrestler got the Decision.

But based on what you're saying here, Jake O'Brien didn't soundly defeat Heath Herring, for instance. That's going overboard, imo.
Damien6663
6/17/07 10:15:42PM
I scored it 2-1 for clay, cant really see how you could do other wise. yes it was close but clay deff won that fight...im not going to cry to much tho since i picked tyson and was given a gift for my record LOL!
u_f_c
6/17/07 10:58:39PM
ya, wow is all i can say, i truely think that Guida took all 3 rounds hands down. i said that if Griffin takes it i would be extremely upset. and he did, sure it was a good fight, but Clay was the only one to do anything really.... kinda like the franklin fight for the first 2 rounds.
grappler0000
6/18/07 4:01:10PM

Posted by u_f_c

ya, wow is all i can say, i truely think that Guida took all 3 rounds hands down. i said that if Griffin takes it i would be extremely upset. and he did, sure it was a good fight, but Clay was the only one to do anything really.... kinda like the franklin fight for the first 2 rounds.



If you thought Guida took the first round, then you were watching a different fight.
The_Iceman
6/18/07 4:07:15PM
I'm no judge but it looked to me that Guida was the better fighter..

My score: 29-28 Guida
pv3Hpv3p
6/18/07 4:09:15PM

Posted by chiefwiggum


Guida did absolutely nothing with top control. In my opinion too much credit is given to a fighter for simply getting a take down. I don't think take downs should count for anything if you do nothing with them.



But regardless, he had top control... While he might have done nothing, why would you award the round to Tyson, where he equally did nothing, but did while in a less advantageous position?

I thought the fight was really close, and the TD and control in the end of the 3rd gave Guida a close edge... It's kind of the opposite of the split dec that Tito got over Forrest... In that instance the TD was what swung the judges in his favor, and in this fight it didn't count for as much...

It's a shame that judging is inconsistent, but as is life... At least we got to see a good fight, even though I had a ton of cash on Clay (OK, well not a ton but enough to make me yell at the TV when the dec was ruled)
SteedTheDeed
6/18/07 7:20:05PM
even griffin thought he lost, after the fight he looked tired and dissapointed while Guida was running circles around the octagon. Griffin had the first minute of the 3rd but the rest was Guida, Guida wanted it more and should of got the decision.
Aether
6/18/07 9:14:09PM
I don't know why people always use the argument that the fighter himself thought he lost. When you're in the ring getting hit and throwing punches it may seem strange, but you actually don't have as objective a viewpoint as a bunch of judges sitting on the outside able to view the fight from multiple vantage points. It's no coincidence that all 3 judges scored the bout the same, he won it.

I find myself agreeing with the judges every time there's a debate about a close decision... starnes/leben, this fight, griffin/ortiz... I don't see a lack of consistency at all.
hippysmacker
6/19/07 11:33:38AM
I've watched it 4 times now, great fight, and I still think Stickan had it right. Griffin won the 1rst and 3rd in my book. 29-28 Griffin for me.
Rush
6/19/07 11:56:29AM

Posted by AchillesHeel

No, really. I was genuinely shocked when they gave it to Griffin. Clay took the 2nd and 3rd rounds, I thought. I just dunno sometimes...



I agree. The fight wasn't one sided, but I really felt he deserved the win with no esception.
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