Cigano vs Demolition Man

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KungFuMaster
3/29/12 12:30:05PM
What do both fighters need to do - to win this fight?

Cigano
Junior needs to keep moving and never let Overeem set. He needs to work the jab from the outside and stick and move throughout the fight. Junior should refrain from combinations. Combinations will only allow him to be in target range for a longer period which is a bad idea against Overeem. What junior needs to do is avoid do or die situations. Given the fact Junior is the faster man with faster punches, he will likely win these moments of precipice but he should avoid them as much as possible. The overall game plan for Junior is to win on points. He should not go in there looking for a quick knock out. If the knock out opportunity presents itself, then take it but don't go hunting for it - that would be risky against a stronger and bigger fighter. If Junior can do all these things successfully, he can win.

Demolition Man
Overeem needs to make Junior expend as much energy as possible in the early rounds by closing the distance in order to clinch and utilize his superior size and deliver knees from that position. He needs to keep pressure on Junior at all times. Because Junior is such a good puncher, Overeem would need to keep a high and tight guard. Overeem cannot just follow Junior around the cage; he needs to stalk Junior with a sense of urgency and create moments of precipice whereby forcing the two fighters to engage with heavier strikes. The overall game plan for Overeem is to applied constant pressure to force confrontations. The confrontation zones and the clinches is where Overeem can win. If he can successfully do these things, he can win.

One thing to keep in mind also - Cardio will play a huge factor in this fight, if it goes pass the third round.
FastKnockout
3/29/12 1:52:26PM

Posted by KungFuMaster

What do both fighters need to do - to win this fight?

Cigano
Junior needs to keep moving and never let Overeem set. He needs to work the jab from the outside and stick and move throughout the fight. Junior should refrain from combinations. Combinations will only allow him to be in target range for a longer period which is a bad idea against Overeem. What junior needs to do is avoid do or die situations. Given the fact Junior is the faster man with faster punches, he will likely win these moments of precipice but he should avoid them as much as possible. The overall game plan for Junior is to win on points. He should not go in there looking for a quick knock out. If the knock out opportunity presents itself, then take it but don't go hunting for it - that would be risky against a stronger and bigger fighter. If Junior can do all these things successfully, he can win.

Demolition Man
Overeem needs to make Junior expend as much energy as possible in the early rounds by closing the distance in order to clinch and utilize his superior size and deliver knees from that position. He needs to keep pressure on Junior at all times. Because Junior is such a good puncher, Overeem would need to keep a high and tight guard. Overeem cannot just follow Junior around the cage; he needs to stalk Junior with a sense of urgency and create moments of precipice whereby forcing the two fighters to engage with heavier strikes. The overall game plan for Overeem is to applied constant pressure to force confrontations. The confrontation zones and the clinches is where Overeem can win. If he can successfully do these things, he can win.

One thing to keep in mind also - Cardio will play a huge factor in this fight, if it goes pass the third round.



"Junior should refrain from combinations. Combinations will only allow him to be in target range for a longer period which is a bad idea against Overeem."

-Like you said in the leading sentence, Junior can't let Overeem set, which includes Junior using combinations and not allowing Overeem to shoot off his own offense.

"The overall game plan for Junior is to win on points. He should not go in there looking for a quick knock out."

-Junior never hunts for the knockout. His striking is just so quick and precise that the knockout comes naturally, but he never seems to hunt for it. His fights against Nelson and Carwin are good examples. Both have great chins, and Junior didn't waste energy or time looking for the one-punch-knockout.

"One thing to keep in mind also - Cardio will play a huge factor in this fight, if it goes pass the third round. "

-I don't think cardio will be an issue for Junior. He's never been in a five round fight but he's never "gassed" in his few decisions. He slows down of course, but I've never seen him gassed to the point where he couldn't keep up his pace and striking combinations.
KungFuMaster
3/29/12 2:51:38PM
Basically you are agreeing with everything I said except the combination.
KungFuMaster
3/29/12 2:55:59PM
Cardio will be an issue for Overeem IMO. If this fight makes it past the third round, I can see Cigano picking Overeem apart in dominating fashion from there on which does not necessarily mean Cigano won't be doing so in the opening rounds.
KungFuMaster
3/29/12 3:00:38PM
IMO, Overeem needs to execute his strategies right off the back and finish this fight in the first three rounds, if possible. Otherwise the more conditioned fighter, Cigano, will eventually outlast and out-point him.
tcunningham
3/29/12 5:17:00PM
i think junior needs to keep his distance with jabs and combinations. keep up his lateral movement in order to stay off the fence. overeem likes to get in close and throw 1's and 2's with big power. if junior can dictate the pace and distance i think he can wear overeem out and get the UD or late stoppage

overeem needs to hunt junior down by cutting off the cage and looking to get close in order to land his big shots and knees. i think he can back junior into the cage with push kicks and quick bursts strait into junior once he has cut the cage off. the clinch is also a place i think overeem can win this fight. he can control juniors movement and still land his knees and hooks, plus with overeem being the bigger fighter he can wear on junior and slow his pace.
Pookie
3/29/12 5:43:08PM
Junior's combinations win him this fight IMO. His chin can take the counter shot's IMO, and When Junior finds Overeem's chin it's over.
KungFuMaster
3/29/12 5:51:07PM
I rather have Junior move in and out as quickly as possible and I would recommend him to refrain from combinations. The longer Junior is in the confrontation zone, the riskier it becomes for him.

Pookie
3/29/12 6:03:20PM
I like the idea of sharpening your tools to a point. The easiest way to win this fight(considering it's 5 rounds) is by stoppage. I think Junior should have a conservative strategy with bursts of combinations, in order to keep his stamina and keep Alistair Gun Shy.

Cigano doesn't have great mobility with how rooted his stance is, he has a smaller reach, and fighting an In&Out game with lots of movement and jabbing expends alot of energy for someone with his attributes. Alistair has a history of turning opponents into mincemeat when they don't make him respect their power. Fighting an outside game against Overeem requires Cigano to fight an uphill fight with lots of resistance, whereas doing the norm allows cigano to fight to his strengths.

Cigano should fight to his one strength's IMO, because the only factor for him to worry about is his cardio, and that's something he can control by picking his spots more conservatively.
KungFuMaster
3/29/12 6:17:48PM

Posted by Pookie

I like the idea of sharpening your tools to a point. The easiest way to win this fight(considering it's 5 rounds) is by stoppage. I think Junior should have a conservative strategy with bursts of combinations, in order to keep his stamina and keep Alistair Gun Shy.

Cigano doesn't have great mobility with how rooted his stance is, he has a smaller reach, and fighting an In&Out game with lots of movement and jabbing expends alot of energy for someone with his attributes. Alistair has a history of turning opponents into mincemeat when they don't make him respect their power. Fighting an outside game against Overeem requires Cigano to fight an uphill fight with lots of resistance, whereas doing the norm allows cigano to fight to his strengths.

Cigano should fight to his one strength's IMO, because the only factor for him to worry about is his cardio, and that's something he can control by picking his spots more conservatively.



I'm not suggesting Cigano fights a fight like Condit.

For the most part, we both agree Cigano needs to be conservative in this fight.
Bubbles
3/30/12 12:00:46AM
the biggest thing JDS needs to worry about is avoiding the clinch. He does that, he has a much better chance at winning.

But Overeem is gunna win anyways
KungFuMaster
3/30/12 11:35:05AM

Posted by Bubbles

the biggest thing JDS needs to worry about is avoiding the clinch. He does that, he has a much better chance at winning.

But Overeem is gunna win anyways



Overeem does have good chances of winning this fight but if you consider the strengths of both fighters - their abilities and their strategies, the fight tends to favor Junior.
KungFuMaster
3/30/12 11:46:22AM
Junior can also add take downs to this fight but I highly discourage it. The only reason Junior should attempt take downs is if by some reason he is losing the stand up exchanges. Take downs would benefit Junior tremendously but they will also add to Overeem's opportunity to clinch and deliver knees.
cowcatcher
3/30/12 11:46:44AM

Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by Bubbles

the biggest thing JDS needs to worry about is avoiding the clinch. He does that, he has a much better chance at winning.

But Overeem is gunna win anyways



Overeem does have good chances of winning this fight but if you consider the strengths of both fighters - their abilities and their strategies, the fight tends to favor Junior.



How so? Is it because you said so?

Junior has better boxing and he needs to use quick hands in combination and avoid the clinch. AO has a better all around striking game and is deadly with his knees so it's in his best interest to get hold of JDS. Not to mention we know that AO can sub people, and we haven't seen that in Junior's game yet. To me it seems like AO has more ways to win.
Chael_Sonnen
3/30/12 11:47:34AM
Simon Phoenix won't survive two rounds with Junior.
KungFuMaster
3/30/12 12:10:48PM
If I was Overeem, I would devote most of the training camp to kicking. He needs to utilize his kickboxing in this match to nullify the speed of Junior. What he needs to do is practice kicking the right arm of his training partner. By doing so, his opponent cannot counter with the straight right. Actually -one still can counter with the straight right but it would be extremely difficult to get it out there in time.

In the actual fight, Overeem should pace himself and limit those kicks to approximately 5 per round. If he can land at least 2 per round, by the time it goes into the championship rounds, if it makes it that far, Junior's right arm will be sore and will lack steam.

This is another offense for Overeem but it would also be taxing on his endurance.

KungFuMaster
3/30/12 12:20:20PM

Posted by cowcatcher


Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by Bubbles

the biggest thing JDS needs to worry about is avoiding the clinch. He does that, he has a much better chance at winning.

But Overeem is gunna win anyways



Overeem does have good chances of winning this fight but if you consider the strengths of both fighters - their abilities and their strategies, the fight tends to favor Junior.



How so? Is it because you said so?

Junior has better boxing and he needs to use quick hands in combination and avoid the clinch. AO has a better all around striking game and is deadly with his knees so it's in his best interest to get hold of JDS. Not to mention we know that AO can sub people, and we haven't seen that in Junior's game yet. To me it seems like AO has more ways to win.



Having more ways to win does not necessarily amount to having a higher chance of winning. There are a lot of well rounded fighters who have lost to stylistic fighters like Fitch and Hughes.
KungFuMaster
3/30/12 12:42:15PM
Overeem does have a good technical striking game but what people forget is his striking game is better suited for a ring with corners. The octagon makes it more difficult for one to trap his opponents. Condit proved one can literally run around the octagon and not be cornered.

Overeem has good and methodical striking but what he lacks is speed and speed happens to be one of Junior's strenghts.

Both fighters have obvious game plans but it is my opinion it is easier for Junior to execute his - being he is the more nimble fighter.
cowcatcher
3/30/12 1:02:46PM
I would argue that stylistically this is a tougher fight for Junior because of AO's diverse striking. The guy won the K-1 GP for crying out loud, granted it was against a watered down field.

You can get into gameplans and all that kind of stuff, but when it's two HW's that are two of the best strikers in the world, it comes down to who lands first. One guy will more than likely land something huge and it will be a short night.

I'd be blind to not see that you're trying to prove that you do know about gameplanning, and your breakdown has some good points, but the X factor in this fight is that they're HW's, and when two big boys throw down crazy shit can happen in an instant. The pundits are proven wrong a lot in these kind of fights because of that. HW champs in the UFC don't have a great track record of defending the strap, and it's because it only takes one shot in that weight class, moreso than any other, to end a fight.

I'm leaning towards AO in this one, but to me it's just about a pick em because they're both so good at what they do and it's a matter of time until one lands something that's fight changing.
KungFuMaster
3/30/12 1:10:37PM

Posted by cowcatcher



You can get into gameplans and all that kind of stuff, but when it's two HW's that are two of the best strikers in the world, it comes down to who lands first. One guy will more than likely land something huge and it will be a short night.




And in my opinion, the one who executes his game plan more effectively will likely be the one to land first.
KungFuMaster
3/30/12 1:13:56PM
In this day and age, in mma competition, you have to go in with a calculated game plan - otherwise you are probably not going to have a successful career.
cowcatcher
3/30/12 1:14:12PM

Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by cowcatcher



You can get into gameplans and all that kind of stuff, but when it's two HW's that are two of the best strikers in the world, it comes down to who lands first. One guy will more than likely land something huge and it will be a short night.




And in my opinion, the one who executes his game plan more effectively will likely be the one to land first.



When the gameplan for each is to hit the other guy I'd say you're right.
KungFuMaster
3/30/12 1:16:00PM

Posted by cowcatcher


Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by cowcatcher



You can get into gameplans and all that kind of stuff, but when it's two HW's that are two of the best strikers in the world, it comes down to who lands first. One guy will more than likely land something huge and it will be a short night.




And in my opinion, the one who executes his game plan more effectively will likely be the one to land first.



When the gameplan for each is to hit the other guy I'd say you're right.



Then where's my prop?
cowcatcher
3/30/12 1:17:38PM
My dog ate it.

It fell into the peanut butter.
KungFuMaster
3/30/12 1:20:04PM
Until I get my prop, we're no longer friends.
KungFuMaster
3/30/12 1:38:41PM
Yeah, you better be spreading the love so you can prop me. I want the prop delivered first thing in the morning - with a smile also. Make it look like you are sincere.
KungFuMaster
3/30/12 2:45:08PM

Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by cowcatcher



You can get into gameplans and all that kind of stuff, but when it's two HW's that are two of the best strikers in the world, it comes down to who lands first. One guy will more than likely land something huge and it will be a short night.




And in my opinion, the one who executes his game plan more effectively will likely be the one to land first.



Actually, what I meant to say is - the one who executes his game plan will increase his chances of landing, not necessarily landing first.
Cooler
3/30/12 6:09:03PM
Cigano all the way.
FastKnockout
3/30/12 6:55:49PM

Posted by KungFuMaster

Basically you are agreeing with everything I said except the combination.



Didn't say I wasn't. I was giving my thoughts on a few of your points.
aussiemma
4/4/12 1:30:05AM

Posted by cowcatcher

I would argue that stylistically this is a tougher fight for Junior because of AO's diverse striking. The guy won the K-1 GP for crying out loud, granted it was against a watered down field.

You can get into gameplans and all that kind of stuff, but when it's two HW's that are two of the best strikers in the world, it comes down to who lands first. One guy will more than likely land something huge and it will be a short night.

I'd be blind to not see that you're trying to prove that you do know about gameplanning, and your breakdown has some good points, but the X factor in this fight is that they're HW's, and when two big boys throw down crazy shit can happen in an instant. The pundits are proven wrong a lot in these kind of fights because of that. HW champs in the UFC don't have a great track record of defending the strap, and it's because it only takes one shot in that weight class, moreso than any other, to end a fight.

I'm leaning towards AO in this one, but to me it's just about a pick em because they're both so good at what they do and it's a matter of time until one lands something that's fight changing. [/QUOTE



THANKYOU ! cant stand how people are trying to sound smart on this thing and breakdown this fight to the 10,000th degree ! the facts are AO has the more credentialed and diverse striking, but then again jds didnt get to where he is by submitting guys either.

both of these guys are killer finishers so as soon as one guy gets into trouble it will end. leaning towards AO for the win
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