Chuck vs Shogun

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trebekmustdie
2/9/08 6:53:50PM
Who do ya got in this one?

I was impressed by what Chuck did in the Wanderlei fight, but he's obviously on the downside of his career. He was looking for the punch that never came against Jardine but what he needs to remember is that this is mixed martial arts and there are other ways to win. I thought maybe Chuck had forgotten he knows how to wrestle until he shot on Silva. Yeah, he's Chuck Liddell and most people expect him to knock people out but there's no shame in a lil' ground 'n' pound.

We all know what Liddell has done in the past, and I'm a believer that he has some good fights left in him.

That said, I'm taking Shogun in this fight. He looked terrible against Forrest and I'm the first to admit that. I've been hearing a lot of, "Chuck's gonna knock him out" but I don't see it. Shogun knows he put on a piss-poor showing in the Griffin fight and that's not going to happen again. Especially in such a high profile fight.

For those of us maybe not as familiar with Rua (which I hope is no one) he was, and still is to a large degree, considered the next Wanderlei. Only better. An agressive, dominant striker with excellent BJJ. Anyone remember when GSP fought Hughes the first time? Before that there was a lot of buzz about Georges, people saying he's the next great one and so forth. Then Hughes catches him, and for a few fights at least, a lot of people doubted GSP. It's been looking more and more lately like St. Pierre is the future king.

I think it's kinda the same thing with Shogun, only he was already the #1 guy when he decided to not train for Griffin. We've seen the talent this guy has in his fights with Rogerio Nogueira, Arona and Rampage. It really just depends on how badly he wants to put it all together and be the best. Keep in mind Shogun has never been knocked out, or really even put on Queer St. by anyone.

I like Shogun by KO in R1
tuvok500
2/9/08 6:57:13PM
Liddell rd 1 TKO !!

And i am not even nervous !!

cloppio
2/9/08 7:01:20PM

Posted by tuvok500

Liddell rd 1 TKO !!

And i am not even nervous !!









yeah i don't see this one going past the first. i think chuck is refocused and knows a win here means a probable title shot.
roger
2/9/08 7:25:44PM
Shogun in a late ko
roger
2/9/08 7:30:15PM
he beat rampage , and rampage beat chuck twice so lights out for chuck
MALICE
2/9/08 8:00:50PM

Posted by roger

he beat rampage , and rampage beat chuck twice so lights out for chuck



Watch out when basing your picks on MMAth. It can bite you in the ars.
cowcatcher
2/9/08 8:03:06PM

Posted by xxMALICExx


Posted by roger

he beat rampage , and rampage beat chuck twice so lights out for chuck



Watch out when basing your picks on MMAth. It can bite you in the ars.



MMAth=throwing a dart blindfolded to pick a winner
loonytnt
2/9/08 8:28:52PM
chuck KO 1st, and just bc rampage beat chuck and shogun beat rampage that dont mean anything...

if so you are sayin forrest is going to beat rampage?? shogun beat rampage,and forrest beat shogun?

lol chuck is going to win
juanez13
2/9/08 8:35:56PM

Posted by roger

he beat rampage , and rampage beat chuck twice so lights out for chuck



so did wanderlei, wandy beat rampage twice By KO, chuck lost to page 2wice, but chuck still beat wandy, mmamath doesnt work.period. if shogun wins it wont have anything to do with him having beat page, and chuck having been beaten by page. still i have a hard time picking shogun, since his style os so close to wandy, i just dont see him winning, the key for shogun will be kicks, if he utilizes them well (ala jardine) he might win, but that depends if chucks lets it happen, orif he does something about it.
LayinFrame
2/9/08 8:36:33PM
chuck rd 2 ko nighty nite :)
Pookie
2/9/08 8:39:44PM
When i try to match them up in my head, theres more things that work for shoguns favor in this fight. He has a better chin than wanderlei, he slips punches better than anybody at 205(with the exception of maybe rampage), and he has deceptively powerful punches with pinpoint accuracy.

With the right game-plan he should win this. He has all the same tools jardine has except hes better at all of them... If shogun makes chuck be the aggressor and keeps him away with those strong leg kicks of his, chuck doesnt have the right tools to chase him without risking himself to an even more vulnerable position, the thai clinch.

But on the bright side chuck is probably going to be heavily favored so shogun at +200 is more than i could hope for against anybody.
BlazinSaddle
2/9/08 9:42:37PM

Posted by roger

he beat rampage , and rampage beat chuck twice so lights out for chuck



im gonna agree tho, even tho the math usually sucks i dont see one aspect that liddell has over shogun, its going to come down to who has a better chin head movement and ground skill all of which go to shogun

shogun via flying knee in the 1st or knees in the clinch or leg kick destruction ala jardine then finishing him off
jiujitsufreak74
2/9/08 9:46:13PM
i can't see a healthy shogun losing this fight. there is no aspect that i see shogun being worse than chuck in. shogun will prove to the casual fans and even some of the more knowledgable fans that jumped off of his wagon that he is still for real. he was the most dominant LHW in recent years, even more so than liddell because he was beating better competition. i want to see how chuck's sloppy style does against a very collected technician in shogun. shogun's muy tahi is even better than wandy's, and unlike wandy shogun doesn't get caught up by his emotion so i don't see shogun making the same mistakes and wandy. shogun will utilize the kicks, pick chuck apart and if chuck decides to take it to the ground he will be submitted. i cannot see shogun losing this fight, i just can't because the shogun that fought forrest is not the same shogun that will show up against liddell.

Shogun by 3rd round KO
blakeon
2/9/08 11:12:54PM

Posted by cloppio


Posted by tuvok500

Liddell rd 1 TKO !!

And i am not even nervous !!









yeah i don't see this one going past the first. i think chuck is refocused and knows a win here means a probable title shot.



Dont be to sure that this fights not going past the first.
Remember the last lidell fight. no one thought that it would at the very least go past the 2nd round.
And look, it went into a decision and chuck one.
But im thinkin Rua round 3 Ko
ncordless
2/10/08 2:39:27AM
The spread is gonna make the difference on how I wager this one. I give Chuck an edge, but if Shogun looks like normal Shogun who knows? over +250 and I'll bet on Shogun, if it's close I'll take Chuck.
cowcatcher
2/10/08 3:13:33AM

Posted by BlazinSaddle


Posted by roger

he beat rampage , and rampage beat chuck twice so lights out for chuck



im gonna agree tho, even tho the math usually sucks i dont see one aspect that liddell has over shogun, its going to come down to who has a better chin head movement and ground skill all of which go to shogun

shogun via flying knee in the 1st or knees in the clinch or leg kick destruction ala jardine then finishing him off



the one aspect chuck has over shogun is one punch KO power, everything else would seem to be in shoguns favor, but when chuck gets hit he gets angrier and seems to kick it into another gear, and his chin is solid no matter what the rampage fight makes you think. i think chuck has a real chance to win this.
zephead
2/10/08 11:39:52AM

Posted by roger

he beat rampage , and rampage beat chuck twice so lights out for chuck




And Chuck beat Wandy who beat Rampage who beat Henderson who beat Wandy who lost to Cro Cop who lost to Gonzaga who lost to Werdum who lost to Arlovski who lost to Big Tim who lost to Frank Mir who beat Tank who lost to Yoshida who lost to Thompson who lost to Fujita who beat Kerr who lost to Igor who lost to Cro Cop who lost to Fedor who lost to TK who lost to Bas who beat Frank Shamrock who beat Tito who lost to Chuck

So what the hell does this all mean. That Chuck is the baddest man on the planet. It started with Chuck winning and ended with Chuck winning.

No, it means that MMAMath doesn't work.
zephead
2/10/08 11:40:51AM
I posted this in another thread:


This is a tough one. Chuck has more power. Shogun is a better striker. Chuck tends to get wild with his punches, while Shogun is more accurate and will use his punches, kicks and knees to set up a takedown. Chuck looks to throw bombs and is less concerned about being technical.

Shogun is better on the ground, but will have to set up the takedown with the clinch game or kicks. Chucks counterstriking is going to play a big part in this. Shogun can't wade through it. He has to press the fight to Chuck, but use leg kicks and his jab to get into the clinch and go from there.


Is the Chuck who fought Wandy and Randy going to show up, moving and playing the angles or the Chuck that fought Jardine and Rampage, flatfooted and dropping his hands.

If the old Chuck shows up, this could be like the Wandy/Chuck fight. If not, this will be like the Shogun/Rampage fight
Kebert
2/10/08 11:58:36AM
anyone who thinks the shogun who fought forrest is the real shogun is in for a rude awakening. rua is gonna come out throwing kicks and knees. he's gonna take a decision based mainly on kicks and aggression
aolverizon
2/12/08 12:51:36AM
im taking shogun by tko in the 1st or 2nd, hopefully hes the underdog so i can wager on him.
Pookie
2/12/08 4:14:35AM

Posted by aolverizon

im taking shogun by tko in the 1st or 2nd, hopefully hes the underdog so i can wager on him.



If the fight was to happen right now Shogun would be at +110 (40%)
while Liddell will be at -120(60%)

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