Chuck vs. Shogun

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PatNorth
2/4/08 6:38:21PM
What do you think of this recently signed match. IMO i think if shogun fights like he did against forrest he'll get knocked out in the first round, but if he fights like he did in pride it could go either way.
MFOTHER
2/4/08 6:46:01PM
couln't have said it better myself.
Pookie
2/4/08 6:51:20PM
Unless Shogun tears his acl again im taking shogun in this one
mk1630
2/4/08 6:59:06PM
Chuck will knock him out in the 2nd round.
Styles
2/4/08 7:01:12PM
Chuck by KO... this is an aweful match-up for Shogun. Chuck has great takedown defense and better striking. I have Chuck via rd.2 KO/TKO
aaa9erh8er
2/4/08 7:27:23PM
im giving it to shogun vid slpit d
id like to see chuck win but i doubt it
telnights
2/4/08 7:41:33PM

Posted by Styles

Chuck by KO... this is an aweful match-up for Shogun. Chuck has great takedown defense and better striking. I have Chuck via rd.2 KO/TKO



100%
stock
2/4/08 8:03:26PM

Posted by telnights


Posted by Styles

Chuck by KO... this is an aweful match-up for Shogun. Chuck has great takedown defense and better striking. I have Chuck via rd.2 KO/TKO



100%

cmill21
2/4/08 8:31:01PM

Posted by Styles

Chuck by KO... this is an aweful match-up for Shogun. Chuck has great takedown defense and better striking. I have Chuck via rd.2 KO/TKO



Woah what? Better striking? No. Chuck acctually doesn't have great striking. Power, yeah but good technique and ability to use anything but punches and maybe the odd kick, no. Chuck was getting ripped apart by Overeem before overeem gassed hard and chuck clocked him, Rampage made him look foolish twice. Shogun was a MT champ in Brazil, and he's shown he can over power even the strongest guys with his clinch. He also has great trip take downs and chucks small legs could be vunerable to leg locks which Shogun is very good at....My how quickly people change there tune after Shogun gets a loss and Chuck gets a win.
MALICE
2/4/08 8:53:42PM
It's kind of early to tell at this point, but I am leaning towards Chuck. He is coming off of a win against, LETS NOT FORGET, Wanderlei Silva and Shogun is coming off of a loss against Forrest. Also Chuck has the better octagon experience.

This may sound funny but I like to watch Countdown to UFC __ on Spike to get an update on a fighters training and attitude. It is a good bit of last minute info before I make my final decision.

I was hoping that after the Liddell/Silva fight, Silva and Rua would fight. But that was just me I guess.
chickmagnet
2/4/08 8:54:47PM

Posted by cmill21


Posted by Styles

Chuck by KO... this is an aweful match-up for Shogun. Chuck has great takedown defense and better striking. I have Chuck via rd.2 KO/TKO



Woah what? Better striking? No. Chuck acctually doesn't have great striking. Power, yeah but good technique and ability to use anything but punches and maybe the odd kick, no. Chuck was getting ripped apart by Overeem before overeem gassed hard and chuck clocked him, Rampage made him look foolish twice. Shogun was a MT champ in Brazil, and he's shown he can over power even the strongest guys with his clinch. He also has great trip take downs and chucks small legs could be vunerable to leg locks which Shogun is very good at....My how quickly people change there tune after Shogun gets a loss and Chuck gets a win.




Did you say Shogun is a "better" striker than Chuck? i beg to differ, shogun is wild and reckless and his flying kicks aren't going to win this fight for him, Chuck has just proven he is a good striker, when he mauled Wanderlei, If he
can deal with Randy as far as takedowns and leg trips i'm pretty sure he can defend against shogun, i would've picked chuck even if shogun had beat Forrest.
NatedawgThaM
2/4/08 9:10:46PM
Wow, people are basing there opinions on UFC 76? Wow, DID WE FORGET THE MAIN EVENT? Oh yeah that's right. Jardine PICKED Chuck APART!!! Were talking about Chimpanzee stance, awkward striker, KEITH JARDINE. He beat Chuck to the punch and dropped him twice or maybe even three times, I forget. That fight should have been unanimous. Did Chuck have an injury, especially to his fist which is just as important as Shoguns legs since Shoguns legs are as deadly as Chucks hands? Did Chuck lose his most valuable weapon? NO, no excuse, Keith Jardine destroyed Chuck as much as Forrest destroy Shogun.

Shogun's leg is was a HUGE loss. He's an explosive fighter who is a lot like Anderson Silva who throws head kicks and knees alot WHICH REQUIRE your legs to be a full strength. Chuck does not have the chin for this fight. He can't withstand Shogun's knees.

Rampage couldn't!!! You people are crazy who say Chuck has better striking. Were talking about the man who owned Rampage who owned Chuck TWICE!!

Shogun 1st RD TKO by bloody annihilation.
jiujitsufreak74
2/4/08 9:13:09PM

Posted by cmill21


Posted by Styles

Chuck by KO... this is an aweful match-up for Shogun. Chuck has great takedown defense and better striking. I have Chuck via rd.2 KO/TKO



Woah what? Better striking? No. Chuck acctually doesn't have great striking. Power, yeah but good technique and ability to use anything but punches and maybe the odd kick, no. Chuck was getting ripped apart by Overeem before overeem gassed hard and chuck clocked him, Rampage made him look foolish twice. Shogun was a MT champ in Brazil, and he's shown he can over power even the strongest guys with his clinch. He also has great trip take downs and chucks small legs could be vunerable to leg locks which Shogun is very good at....My how quickly people change there tune after Shogun gets a loss and Chuck gets a win.



im in agreement here. to chickmagnet: why do you think shogun is reckless? especially compared to chuck liddell who has absolutely zero technique in the striking department. as cmill said shogun is a Muay Thai champion and his striking has always been rather technical and versatile. his submission game is way better and i really think that if he has to shogun has the skills to take this to the mat where he will utilize his superior JJ. shogun is a more technical striker with a wider array to choose from. to say shogun is sloppy is not a correct assumption, at least imo. just because the guy can't use soccer kicks doesn't mean that he isn't winning this fight. i strongly believe that shogun will take this and make a full recovery from the forrest fight. it is amazing at how the fan base behind chuck liddell sways in the breeze (not directed at anyone here btw). shogun was once considered the best in the weight class and for fans to abandon him is ridiculous imo. shogun takes this and sets up for the title shot he was supposed to get.
Pookie
2/4/08 9:26:27PM
accuracy is his key attribute.

Watch his fight with lil nog, there was plenty of exchanges where he clocked rogerio a good 4-5 times and didnt get hit once.
chubbud22
2/4/08 9:47:43PM

Chuck will take down chute box one guy at a time. WAR LIDDELL!
Lay_N_Pray
2/4/08 10:06:34PM
It's called America and some guys dont seem to fond of fighting in the country. Cro Cop being one, and Shogun being two. Technique, skill, power, whatever - that stuff can be talked about all day, but when you get to this level there is very little difference between those things. Especially when talking about Liddell and Shogun, they are both excellent strikers, period.

If Shogun is happy to be in an octagon and thrilled to fight Liddell he will have a chance. But if he longs for the days of Pride with a ring and Japanese fans with no All Acess shows and media frenzies, well then he will have no chance of winning.

It was hard to judge if the American atmosphere bothered Shogun in his first fight because of his knee injury. But injury or not, he did seem a little depressed or not as motivated I suppose.

I would say Chuck by 3rd round KO at this point, but if Shogun is acting like his youthful self again, things could change.
Styles
2/4/08 10:10:18PM
I am glad Chuck lost to Jardine, it is exactly what he needed. As far as Rampage beating him... Rampage had Chcuk beat before the fight, Chuck was in the wrong mental state, which caused him to slip up and get KO'd... Pretty sure I called it that way too, Rampage by KO.

Wait, let me make another prediction, Chcuk will face Rampage late this year, early next year, and will beat him...... AND WE BEAT HIM.

If anyone had the best chance to beat Liddell this year, it was Wandy. We all seen how that went too (although I feel Wandy may have overtrained a bit IMO).

You talk about Shoguns clinch... ok, yeah he has a good clinch, but he has a slim chance at getting that close with out eating a punch. Liddell can KO Shogun with either hand.

I like Shoguns style, but I am not a huge fan of either guy, I am just calling it how I see it. Chucks style has Shoguns number. Shogun will know this the first time he eats a punch, he will get discourage, then he will go crashing to the mat.

The comment about Overeem, that shit happen in 2003, and he got knocked with 3:09 off the clock, forgive me for missing something here, but your point was what again???

Shogun loved to use kicks while the opponent was on the ground, he used it very effectively. He wont in the UFC and that changes some things just a bit.
Rush
2/4/08 10:12:56PM
I think if Shogun has a gameplan and follows it, he will win by TKO in Rd 1 or 2. IF not, it is going to decision.

I think Wanderlei made the mistake of not utilizing more than just punching. shogun needs to learn from Wanderlei's mistake.
NatedawgThaM
2/5/08 12:16:24AM
Too all these people who call Chuck by KO. You do know Shogun has a better chin then Wandy right? He has never been knocked out or stopped. The only TKO was from breaking his arm. IMO He has more accurate striking then Wandy too.

If Chuck wins it's the same way he beat Wandy. Bad gameplanning, nervousness, and not nearly as aggressive as he was in PRIDE. If freakin' Chuck Liddell is more aggressive then you, your in trouble from the start. I just don't that happening on Shogun's part.

So I still say Shogun by 1st RD KO.
cmill21
2/5/08 12:26:03AM

Posted by Styles

I am glad Chuck lost to Jardine, it is exactly what he needed. As far as Rampage beating him... Rampage had Chcuk beat before the fight, Chuck was in the wrong mental state, which caused him to slip up and get KO'd... Pretty sure I called it that way too, Rampage by KO.

Wait, let me make another prediction, Chcuk will face Rampage late this year, early next year, and will beat him...... AND WE BEAT HIM.

If anyone had the best chance to beat Liddell this year, it was Wandy. We all seen how that went too (although I feel Wandy may have overtrained a bit IMO).

You talk about Shoguns clinch... ok, yeah he has a good clinch, but he has a slim chance at getting that close with out eating a punch. Liddell can KO Shogun with either hand.

I like Shoguns style, but I am not a huge fan of either guy, I am just calling it how I see it. Chucks style has Shoguns number. Shogun will know this the first time he eats a punch, he will get discourage, then he will go crashing to the mat.

The comment about Overeem, that shit happen in 2003, and he got knocked with 3:09 off the clock, forgive me for missing something here, but your point was what again???

Shogun loved to use kicks while the opponent was on the ground, he used it very effectively. He wont in the UFC and that changes some things just a bit.



Well if you have ever seen that fight Overeem dominated about 3 minuets of that fight, chuck ate knee after knee punch after punch, seriously. They he gassed hard, even Bas said..."he appears to be gassing, wow". Chuck has no ability to check a kick apperently. He holds his hands in poor position and he doesn't throw many kicks, I know striking and I have alot of problems with his. I'm not saying he's a bad striker, his power makes up for alot of his deficiencies, but the fact that he threw a hook to the body with abolutly no set up makes me believe that Shogun can definetly take this one. Striking is pretty much all instinct and muscle memory, and when your 38 it's tough to break poor habits, and chuck has some bad ones.
postman
2/5/08 1:25:11AM
Cmill and Natedawg. Thank God Its not only me trying to reason with these guys.
Mastodon2
2/5/08 2:13:38AM
People that think Chuck has good striking need to spend a few weeks in a boxing gym or a Muay Thai gym. Sure Chuck lands KO's (mainly against grapplers but there you go) but he is a bit of a one trick pony, and anyone with minimal striking experience will be able to see that Chuck's stance leaves his wide open to good strikers. If Chuck hadn't had the reach advantage he probably would have been mauled by Wanderlei, except Wanderlei could seem to get near him all night, not surprising when you look at how big Chuck is. If Shogun can overcome that reach, and with a bit of technical striking he could, then Chuck's years of training that ridiculous "Pit" stance will cost him a victory.

There is a reason you don't see anyone in Muay Thai or K-1 using Chuck's stance.
mkiv9secsupra
2/5/08 2:14:17AM
Shogun has already said he doesnt want to stand with Chuck... Hes going to try and shoot and like every other guy who does, hes going to get stuffed and keep eating punches. Shogun is not a better striker than wandy. Wandys hand speed and power surpass Shoguns somewhat technical striking. I can see a 2nd round ko coming on.
Jackelope
2/5/08 2:56:05AM
This is actually one of the most interesting matches that will be put together this year I think. I believe Shogun's clinch will be rendered ineffective by Chuck's crazy "Ultimate Crane Style". Chuck is way too familiar with the Octagon, and moves around the Octagon way too fast to be cut off and placed into a clinch. Not to mention the fact that you've got to get past his Oranga-tang like reach and those crazy angles just to get close enough to clinch. Hell, even Randy Couture had problems getting inside for a body lock on Chuck. His point and circle evasion is absolutely insane. When considered with his striking game inside an Octagon that is what makes him one of the "top strikers" in MMA.

Outside of the Octagon, where the ring shape isn't quite as friendly to him, I say Shogun wins 9/10 times. Inside the Octagon? Who knows. How do you stop a guy who has the best circular evasion in the game inside a circular arena?

Honestly I give this fight a 50/50 chance to either guy.
Pookie
2/5/08 3:05:02AM
Ill prop the first person to accurately state Shogun's reach.

The thing that sticks out in my mind is shoguns success with Rogerio who's reach is 77" Shogun was definitely getting the better shots in against a fast accurate puncher in rogerio.

I know Liddell's is 76"

...
I dont believe Shogun is going to come out and try to take him to the ground for a moment. For him to already give away his strategy before training camp has even begun is insane and unheard of.
aolverizon
2/5/08 3:45:26AM
i agree with you 100%
if the out of shape, unprepared shogun that came into the forrest fight shows up hes gonna catch the overhand right and get put to sleep, but if the #1 205lber in the world from pride shows up i think he takes it by tko in the 2nd or 3rd.
waylon_o
2/5/08 9:20:19AM
Wow...I hope all of these people that are saying Chuck has terrible standup style are former UFC champs. Just because Chuck has an unorthodox style that isn't as pretty as some other people's styles doesn't mean he isn't one of the best strikers in the world. Saying that he's got terrible style is an unintelligent statement. He absolutely obliterated one of the best strikers of all time in Wanderlei. He's beat Overeem, Vitor, Couture, Tito twice in his prime, and Babalu twice. How can you guys sit here and try to tell me he has terrible style? It's been working for him for years.
Lay_N_Pray
2/5/08 10:37:09AM
Waylon_O hit it right on the money. How could you guys say that Chuck is a terrible striker just because of his technique? I think we can all agree Shogun's technique is better, but Chuck just knows his to KO people period. There is no way around it, he just does it with whatever weird ass technique he brings.

Both fighters are tremendous and deserve everyone's respect at this point, they both proved they are two of the best fighters in the world. We're not talking about Shogun vs Houston Alexander who still has much left to prove. We are talking about two legends going at it, so to put either one's skill level down would be lying to yourself.

I expect it to be a great fight and for Chuck to take a 3rd round KO just cause of his ability to catch anyone at anytime with the KO shot and I have a feeling Shogun may leave an opening. But like I said it should be a war and both men are amazing so lets just enjoy this one and not bury either guy for stupid reasons that we all know are not true
Playground_Samurai
2/5/08 10:57:43AM

Posted by waylon_o

Wow...I hope all of these people that are saying Chuck has terrible standup style are former UFC champs. Just because Chuck has an unorthodox style that isn't as pretty as some other people's styles doesn't mean he isn't one of the best strikers in the world. Saying that he's got terrible style is an unintelligent statement. He absolutely obliterated one of the best strikers of all time in Wanderlei. He's beat Overeem, Vitor, Couture, Tito twice in his prime, and Babalu twice. How can you guys sit here and try to tell me he has terrible style? It's been working for him for years.



+1

I have to shake my head everytime I see some guy on the internet insinuating that they have more knowledge about, and better striking than a former UFC LHW champion.

And I don't have to go to a gym and watch you and your buddies train to know that Chuck is great striker. As stated above, he's outsruck and defeated some of the biggest names in MMA for the world to see.

As for choosing a winner between these two, I don't know. Chuck was very impressive in his most recent fight but considering Shogun's pre-Forrest fight history, it's hard to bet against him. They are both great fighters. Does Chuck still have a couple years left at the top, or is it time for the next generation of fighters such as Shogun, Forrest, and etc. to step up and take their turn? There's still a good amount of time until the fight. I'll wait until it gets a little closer to the date before I make a decision.

postman
2/5/08 11:18:14AM
Chuck is the FORMER LHW CHAMP because he was caught with a counter strike that was set up by Chucks use of his "unorthodox" lead hook to the body. He was not simply "caught", he was out struck by the best striker he had fought in years. I think we all agree Shogun is a better striker then Page. Right?



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