Chuck's main problem

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the_01
9/29/08 12:21:45AM
Chuck liddell, the legend, the master, the champion, one of my favorite fighters. I think he still masters all the skills and has not lost any of his tallent. Then what is his problem? In my openion, its pure arrogance and over-confidence. The guy is at a point where he thinks he is superman. Stardom built an inveincible mentality. He keeps talking about the Champion belt more than his next fight. He thinks he can go in and pull a knockout easily. Remember the Rampage and Evans fights?, he was so careless that he actually tried an uppercut from a far distance, what was he thinking? Both resulted in vigorous knockouts. I dont want to go into details, but I wish he can respect his oponents more inorder to be on the safe side, take the Wandi fight for example, he was careful, smart and cautious, which gave him a deserved victory. That is Chuck's problem in my openion, and I hope he learned his lesson.
jiujitsufreak74
9/29/08 12:30:21AM
Chuck's problem is that he doesn't keep his hands up. when he faces anyone with a hard counter punch he struggles, as was seen with Rashad and Rampage. not to mention Jardine as well. his style of striking that he uses from the Pit just won't work anymore and if he wants to have the success he enjoyed earlier on in his career he has to keep his hands up and tuck his chin in. basic fundamentals but they are very important.
Pookie
9/29/08 12:57:19AM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74

Chuck's problem is that he doesn't keep his hands up. when he faces anyone with a hard counter punch he struggles, as was seen with Rashad and Rampage. not to mention Jardine as well. his style of striking that he uses from the Pit just won't work anymore and if he wants to have the success he enjoyed earlier on in his career he has to keep his hands up and tuck his chin in. basic fundamentals but they are very important.



Pretty much it, great striker but terrible stand-up defense.
CantAndleDaRiddum
9/29/08 1:00:27AM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by jiujitsufreak74

Chuck's problem is that he doesn't keep his hands up. when he faces anyone with a hard counter punch he struggles, as was seen with Rashad and Rampage. not to mention Jardine as well. his style of striking that he uses from the Pit just won't work anymore and if he wants to have the success he enjoyed earlier on in his career he has to keep his hands up and tuck his chin in. basic fundamentals but they are very important.



Pretty much it, great striker but terrible stand-up defense.



i think part of the prob is he got so used to being a respected fighter, that eh stopped respecting other peoples hands. w/ his style i like to see him fight, but dont want to see him look old .....w/ the way he had that right hand loaded waiting to kill rashad w/ it, he doesnt look too far away from the tank comparisons already
Biggz
9/29/08 3:03:08AM
i think there is two main problems,

1. pretty much what everyone else has said above, it has been said well so i won't say anything else about it.

2. other than his hands, i think the second problem is his game plan. everyone has "figured" him out, plain and simple. for the most part everyone knows what he is going to do once the fight starts and what he wil be looking to do during the fight, (big overhand fight, big right/left hook) and counter. i think he needs to mix in a few more elements. im not saying he is one dimensional, im just saying for a long time exactly what he was doing was working, and working perfectly, so why change something that isn't broken? but now its time. im not sure though, maybe more GnP, Bjj, his ground game is actually very good. and i know he took Wandy down a few times during there fight. im not saying he just stands there and punches, but i think you get what im saying.

and its tough for me to say because he is my favorite fighter of all time, but he needs to figure something out, and fast. i really think he cant afford to lose another fight, if he wants a belt before he retires. but i think he can do it.
Naturaldisaster
9/29/08 3:06:54AM
his problem is that he isnt addapting his game to what would do well against others. His game is to counter strike. People have figure out not to allow chuck to counter strike. Rampage, Rashad, Jardine.... all figured it out and beat him. Wandy didnt do that though. He went out there and swung with chuck, and the result was a win for chuck. Chuck hasnt changed his game at all. In the Wandy fight he shot, and took wandy down. He needs to do that a little more, cuz thats gonna confuse his opponents. the last thing you expect to happen when your fighting chuck liddell is to get taken down. Maybe chuck should try some GnP. But he needs to switch somethin up.
JohnnyNapalm
9/29/08 3:50:11AM
How many chucks could Chuck duck if Chuck ducked chucks?
sparky
9/29/08 10:18:24AM
Chuck needs to fight for 15minutes and if the ko comes so be it. He is already expecting the ko before the fight has even started thats the beginning to the problem. If he would fight to win and not to ko the opponent I think you would see chuck at the top again in no time. He basically just needs to respect everyones punching power like he respects his own and then he wont get caught with big shots. example: Chuck vs Wanderlei!!!!!! Chuck knew in that fight one mistake could possibly lead to him knocked out. He needs to be in that state of mind for every fight to avoid the situation he keeps finding himself in.
Aaronno9
9/29/08 10:54:05AM
Chuck should of left the pit 2 years ago. Hes the best guy their by an absolute long shot and i think it shows. I think Rich Franklin had the same problem training with only team gurgel, and hes looked better since he started training at AMC, especially in regards to his ground game. Its to late for chuck to really improve now though, hes stuck in his ways and it might not even be worth going through a big period of change at this late point in his career.

I mean, with the rashad fight, nobody saw rashad throwing that overhand, and chuck was winning up until that point. I even noticed him check a low kick which was unusual. One thing i do think he should do is use his wrestling more. When hes fighting guys like wandy and shogun who dont have awesome td defence, he could most likely easily secure a takedown becouse it would be so unexpected, and id think he could have some pretty devastating gnp.
UFCmma666
9/29/08 1:23:15PM
chucks problem is he doesnt care any more everything u said was true hes always has a beer belly and just makes me angry
WrestlersAssassin
9/29/08 4:09:38PM
He fights better strikers, I wont get into his win against Wand (my opinion is they wanted Chuck to win for ratings, but no proof so nvm) or he gets careless with his defense. Hes also not the best off his back from the Horn loss to Couture, hes always had to improve his sprawl the most to keep it off the mat and be a counter fighter with KO power.
prozacnation1978
9/29/08 5:11:50PM
he is also a one trick pony that everyone knows his tricks now
he needs to evolve, throwm more kicks, takedowns
gsquat
9/29/08 5:49:34PM
Chucks "problem" is that he was Chuck. He hasn't changed his basic game plan in years, yet his surroundings were evolving rapidly. People have had time to learn his game plan and adjust to it. It worked well for a while, but the evolution of MMA has run its course. So while all the best fighters are fun to watch and route for, don't think they're invincible. While a really well-rounded fighter holds his ground longer than most, they'll all be bested eventually... even Rashad.
JBatch
9/29/08 9:32:01PM
Mountains will crumble and temples will fall and no man (not even Chuck) can survive its endless call. This, all its complexities and baggage are what ail Chuck Liddell.
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
9/29/08 9:52:13PM
chucks main problem is hes always looking for the knockout, rather than the win. If chuck fought like machida he would probably lose alot of fans , but win alot more fights.
Jackelope
9/29/08 11:08:30PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74

Chuck's problem is that he doesn't keep his hands up. when he faces anyone with a hard counter punch he struggles, as was seen with Rashad and Rampage. not to mention Jardine as well. his style of striking that he uses from the Pit just won't work anymore and if he wants to have the success he enjoyed earlier on in his career he has to keep his hands up and tuck his chin in. basic fundamentals but they are very important.



Fighters have to take every opportunity to learn new things and keep evolving their game. Unfortunately for Chuck his loyalty, while respectable, has killed him at this point.
mrsmiley
9/30/08 5:50:18AM
I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying.But all I can say is this.

I want a Wandy/Chuck rematch!!!
cj_striker
9/30/08 6:44:21AM
I agree with pretty much everyone's comments so far. The main thing is, as has been said, most fighters have figured out Chuck's weaknesses and have been exploiting them. If he would keep his hands up and fight as a technical striker, instead of luring people in to strike with him by leaving his hands down, that would solve many of his problems right there. But at this point Chuck needs to do something drastic in his next couple fights if he wants to even dream of another title shot or even going out on a positive note.. And here they are. 1. He needs to tell John that he still loves the dude for what he's done for him and all that, then go and train at another camp for the rest of his fighting career, maybe jump around to a couple different camps, then after he's done fighting go back and coach with John at the Pit. 2. After he's trained hard at these other camps and honed in on some of his skills he hasn't used in years (at least inside the ring) go out and fight using different tactics, as in fighting as a more technical striker and how about using some damn take downs. Chuck is a good wrestler and unless he is fighting Evans or Hammill he could take down almost an opponent and use some gnp for once. He could definitely win a few fights with a few surprise take downs alone. 3. He just needs to fight to win and stop going for the highlight reel ko's, he has enough already. Fight like how a Rich Franklin fights, go in with a game plan, utilizing your strengths against their weaknesses, sometime you misjudge as Franklin did with Anderson, but it works a lot when utilized by a skilled fighter....So Chuck we love you man!, but unless you plan on spending the last years of your career as a gatekeeper or better yet a freak show like a Tank Abbott, then you better come and take a look at this thread and use the advice given.
DvS
9/30/08 6:42:27PM
Chuck has gotten too comfortable, his problem is that he underestimates his opponents. Not to mention he always leaves his hands down, it might be comfortable for him but it's not helping him at all. He also needs to switch his fighting style up a bit, people have figured him out, plain and simple.
cowcatcher
9/30/08 7:02:17PM
ok chuck leaves his hands down, but hes done that for a long time now and i dont think thats his main problem, hell hes won a ton of fights that way and it could have been seen as an asset before because it lured guys in. my though is that:
#1- he just isnt as accurate with the big counter as he once was, during the rashad fight there were a couple of flurries near the end that chuck couldnt land clean on, this was also the case against jardine and wandy(who he beat but didnt finish). in years past one of those shots lands clean and his opponent is sleeping. part if this may be that age is catching up and his hands are a little slower(and a little is all it takes sometimes) and therefore arent landing where they would if they got there when he wanted them to.
#2- he doesnt have that fight/fighter that hes chasing anymore and some of the fire is gone from his belly because of that. love or hate tito, that guy gave chuck something to shoot for and he was at his most intense while trying to get a shot at tito, and then later when tito was again on his horizon. after randy beat him he had another guy to shoot for, and he was all business. it seems that chuck needs some kind of special motivation to be at his best, whether its an actual rivalry that goes beyond the cage(tito), or a professional rivalry to see who really is the top dog(randy).

age and lifestyle are also big factors, but all the talk of him keeping his hands too low baffles me because when he was doing the same thing and luring guys in to put them to sleep no one said boo, the guy loses a couple of times and the game of cat and mouse hes always played is now his biggest fault.
TruestSoulSoljah
9/30/08 7:33:44PM
People come up with all these reasons and theories and its so simple. This is a young man's sport. Randy Cotoure is a freak, he's better conditioned than Chuck and a smarter fighter. He bucks the trend. But he's the only one. Chuck is 38 years old, in MMA that's like a 45 year old quarterback. He simply does not have the same speed and reflexes like he used too. Also its incredible how people are not taking opponenents into account. When Chuck was in his heyday, he was getting opponenets he was tailor made to beat and he did not have to worry about them going toe to toe with him. Well look at the LHW's now. None of these guys where around in Chuck's primetime. Some they got from Pride other are young guys who came up, so its beyond simple and I dont know why everyone is baffled. Chuck got older and never bothered to expand his game, and the talent got much better. What's all the confusion. Its apparent.
Jackelope
9/30/08 9:03:21PM

Posted by cowcatcher

ok chuck leaves his hands down, but hes done that for a long time now and i dont think thats his main problem, hell hes won a ton of fights that way and it could have been seen as an asset before because it lured guys in. my though is that:
#1- he just isnt as accurate with the big counter as he once was, during the rashad fight there were a couple of flurries near the end that chuck couldnt land clean on, this was also the case against jardine and wandy(who he beat but didnt finish). in years past one of those shots lands clean and his opponent is sleeping. part if this may be that age is catching up and his hands are a little slower(and a little is all it takes sometimes) and therefore arent landing where they would if they got there when he wanted them to.
#2- he doesnt have that fight/fighter that hes chasing anymore and some of the fire is gone from his belly because of that. love or hate tito, that guy gave chuck something to shoot for and he was at his most intense while trying to get a shot at tito, and then later when tito was again on his horizon. after randy beat him he had another guy to shoot for, and he was all business. it seems that chuck needs some kind of special motivation to be at his best, whether its an actual rivalry that goes beyond the cage(tito), or a professional rivalry to see who really is the top dog(randy).

age and lifestyle are also big factors, but all the talk of him keeping his hands too low baffles me because when he was doing the same thing and luring guys in to put them to sleep no one said boo, the guy loses a couple of times and the game of cat and mouse hes always played is now his biggest fault.



I'd definitely say he's slower, which is a contributing factor, but I attribute it more to striking evolving in MMA. Not sure if you saw that thread I made a while back, but in my opinion the game is passing him up. Striking in MMA is becoming more technical and weaknesses are being more accurately exploited by fighters. Something like a fighter keeping his hands down specifically.

It's hard to compare today's chuck with 3 years ago Chuck because the game has evolved so much. What worked then simply won't work anymore (especially if that's all you've been doing the whole time) I don't think any amount of motivation will change Chuck's success in the Octagon if he keeps at his same old gameplans and doesn't tighten up his striking.
TheGamefather
9/30/08 9:38:37PM
Chucks main problem is himself

I've always felt he was over rated, even when he was winning, he's never given the sport his full attention. He's too oldnow, and the competition is too good, to keep up that lazy aproach to fighting.

It's either time to make MMA the only reason for waking up in the morning, or accept becoming this gens Tank Abott.
MMA
9/30/08 11:41:53PM
He has the Matt Hughes syndrome.

Dude is not motivated nor has he evolved his game. He also has bad habits that people are exploiting.
cmill21
10/1/08 12:01:51AM
The fact is, he's not a great striker. He hits very hard, but he telegraphs, has terrible defense, does not use kicks, can't check a kick, he leads with his chin, and theres so much more. I remember hearing someone a while back talking about him doing great in K-1...not a chance. He's a guy who hits hard that has good take down defense, and now that he's fighting people who aren't wrestlers and ground guys he's finding that his striking is being passed by.
cowcatcher
10/1/08 7:49:19AM

Posted by cmill21

now that he's fighting people who aren't wrestlers and ground guys he's finding that his striking is being passed by.



i dont disagree with what you said or with what jackelope and many others have said, but rashad was basically the wrestler type that chuck always had success against and he KO'd him in a more devastating fashion than even rampage did so i think the age factor is a HUGE part of his decline, maybe moreso than anything else.
cmill21
10/1/08 7:02:29PM

Posted by cowcatcher


Posted by cmill21

now that he's fighting people who aren't wrestlers and ground guys he's finding that his striking is being passed by.



i dont disagree with what you said or with what jackelope and many others have said, but rashad was basically the wrestler type that chuck always had success against and he KO'd him in a more devastating fashion than even rampage did so i think the age factor is a HUGE part of his decline, maybe moreso than anything else.



I can agree with that but rashad acctually has good boxing skills, not great but there pretty good. I just really never thought Chucks striking was all that good, and when people were talking about him vs Cro Cop as the best strikers a few years ago I was beside myself. I do think Chuck could have developed striking skills that rival many of mma's top strikers but he never wen't to a camp that produced striker after striker. If I was Chuck I would have moved to Holland 5 years ago and joined Vos or GG, then right now he would still be doing what he did IMHO.
SpiderSilva
10/1/08 7:02:42PM
lets face it Chuck is hard headed when it comes to change Im sure his camp lets him know all the time there are just people out there who don't want to change but he will always have Dana White by his side to pick up the pieces for a few more years
jakeiceman
10/18/08 7:09:15AM
This is an old thread but I just noticed it. Thanks to everyone posting, you guys actually had very insightful and most of all respectful opinions. I agree with all of you.

slapshot
10/18/08 9:15:13PM

Posted by prozacnation1978

he is also a one trick pony that everyone knows his tricks now
he needs to evolve, throwm more kicks, takedowns



He's slowed down just enough to give fighters a opening and as for the kicks you wont see them because Chuck himself has said his knees are bad.

He's a awesome fighter but we all get old some of us faster than others and Chuck's been lucky and is able to still be competitive but I dont see him staying that way for much longer.

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