Children among 27 dead in shooting at Conn. elementary school

Pretty fucked up to kill little kids
I hope their is a special place in hell for people like that.

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Posted by prophecy033
Im going in tomorrow to get my concealed carry. I want to be a person that can help prevent this or at least help in stopoing the guy from killing more. I just want to know that I can protect those I love and care for.

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That's a very rare and noble reaction to the massacre, Prophecy. Having a concealed carry permit is a honor that should not be taken lightly. There are a lot of considerations that you need to run through your mind. It's far from just displaying the capability of putting holes in paper.

Those who know me best know that I take a gun EVERYWHERE I go. Thankfully, given my profession, I've got some latitude when it comes to carrying concealed in otherwise restricted areas. But I personally would never be able to live with myself if I were caught in a deadly force situation where I could not have a positive impact on the outcome because I wasn't carrying the tools necessary to do so. I can't imagine allowing a loved-one or even a complete stranger be hurt or killed by the will of another and not intervening.

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Posted by KungFuMaster

Being a parent, hearing things like this makes me paranoid - and I'm already an overly protective father to begin with..

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If you want to be protective, arm your children with the realization that this can happen anywhere at any time. Don't shelter them from the facts. Prepare them for what to do when they may be faced with the moment of truth. It's a damn hard discussion for most parents to have (because frankly, most parents themselves aren't prepared for when the wolf is at the door).

I got done with work at 3 pm today. I live quite literally right across the street from our local K-12 public school. As soon as my 8 year old walked in the door this afternoon we talked about what had happened. I did not shy away from any of the known facts. I've spent time with my daughter teaching her warning signs of danger and dangerous people. We've discussed what to do if she's ever taken against her will. We've talked about what to do if there's a gunman in the school.

There's three simple rules to enact when faced with an active shooter scenario. Run, Hide, Fight. If you search that phrase you'll see plenty of decent explanation regarding the methodology. But it's not something that is trained in the event of an active school shooter. This is mostly because the school needs to be accountable for their students during the day, so they can't just open the doors and tell everyone to run like hell.

My daughter knows that if she's faced with the potential of a deadly threat in school, and she can get to an exit safely, she runs straight to my parents' house three blocks away (my home is not a safe place given the close proximity and a potential target given the squad car that sits outside). She runs between houses and not down the street. She knows not to look back and not to wait for anyone. She also knows that no matter what reaction she gets from the school in the aftermath, she will have my 100% support for her decision.

She further knows that if she cannot run, she needs to hide. Not in the corner, no under a desk. But HIDE for fuck sake. cabinets, lockers, in closets behind coats. Hide and don't make a sound- no matter what chaos is going on around her. Hide and not move or say anything until police have found her.

Lastly. If neither of the above are an option my daughter will fight for her life. As scary as that sounds, she knows that curling up in a ball and hoping for the best is not going to save her. She knows that her dad would never let someone take his life without a fight, and she'll never let it happen to her either. Now, I'm well aware that at her age she'd never survive a physical struggle with someone even 5 years older than her. But it's a survival mindset that will be so ingrained into her consciousness that if she's ever faced with a life/death situation down the road, instinct will takeover where fear and doubt cripple most others.

My son starts kindergarten next fall. I know the rules will be a bit different for him. He's not going to have as keen a sense of his surroundings or the requisite speed to safely reach my parents home. His life is going to be in the hands of the school faculty until he's old enough and fast enough to run. He'll be every bit as vulnerable as those poor children who had their lives snuffed out today by that senseless murderer.

We had a School Resource Officer for a few years but the position was cut several years ago do to budget reasons. For my son's sake, I hope this is reconsidered before the start of next school year. I firmly believe that it should be mandated that every school district have an armed police officer on site. We need to make our schools "hardened targets" and less desirable to those who hope to spread terror and destruction.

Well said Bo

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Posted by FastKnockout

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Posted by infestructure

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Posted by FastKnockout

Think I found the kid. Ryan Lanza. Early 20s. Lives in NJ. From Newtown, CT.

Facebook

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Kid? Why do you think this is him?

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I have a bad habit of calling people kid. He's not actually a kid.

They said his name was Ryan Lanza.
Early 20's.
Lives in NJ (where reports say the shooter drove from)
He's from Newtown, CT (where the shooting took place)

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Looks like it was his brother, Adam Lanza. Ryan was working out of state.

The USA really needs to sort out access to firearms. I know its a cliche, but how many more of these incidents have to happen before something changes with how easy it is to get hold of a deadly weapon?

I cannot understand those who see the answer as getting more guns to protect themselves.

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Posted by moob

The USA really needs to sort out access to firearms. I know its a cliche, but how many more of these incidents have to happen before something changes with how easy it is to get hold of a deadly weapon?

I cannot understand those who see the answer as getting more guns to protect themselves.

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Concealed carry is the best way for citizens to protect themselves and others. While I agree that something needs to be done, taking firearms away is not gonna stop bad oeople from getting their hands on them. The reason, they either own them illegally or they have stolen them. The only firearms that will be taken away are the ones that are registered to law abiding citizens as they are the only guns that can be tracked. That was comung from my concealed carry instructor last night who has over 30 years on the police force.

We don't really have that problem in my country. Why? Because having it written into something like a country's constitution is mental and gives those with the desire to act tough, a terrific tool by which to do so.

You then have this problem in that your country is so saturated with weapons, you are gonna struggle to deal with it.

However, to do nothing is surely not an option.

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Posted by prophecy033

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Posted by moob

The USA really needs to sort out access to firearms. I know its a cliche, but how many more of these incidents have to happen before something changes with how easy it is to get hold of a deadly weapon?

I cannot understand those who see the answer as getting more guns to protect themselves.

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Concealed carry is the best way for citizens to protect themselves and others. While I agree that something needs to be done, taking firearms away is not gonna stop bad oeople from getting their hands on them. The reason, they either own them illegally or they have stolen them. The only firearms that will be taken away are the ones that are registered to law abiding citizens as they are the only guns that can be tracked. That was comung from my concealed carry instructor last night who has over 30 years on the police force.

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Concealed carry is a decent deterrent in that criminals are less likely to strike where there is an abundance of armed individuals, however tests have shown though that even the most experienced shooters when put in a situation like many school shootings will fail to even get a shot off.

A study took several competitive target shooters and put them in a classroom/boardroom settings while having them carry a concealed weapon that fired paint pellets. At some point a gunman would burst into the room not knowing where the concealed gun holder was and would try to hit as many people in the room as possible.(also with paint)
Absolutely none of the target shooters was able to hit the gunman before taking several shots themselves, less than half managed to return a single shot, and several didn't even get the gun out of their clothing.

The problem was that while these shooters were excellent shots, they had never been shot at before and had no idea how to handle the situation when put under pressure. I think this would be different for someone like Bojangalz who's job has prepared him for that kind of situation, or for someone with combat experience. For the majority of us, we'd be more dangerous being armed in a situation like that than we would be helpful.

I have no idea what the solution is to the United States gun violence problem, but i'm sure the answer isn't more guns.

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Posted by FlashyG

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Posted by prophecy033

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Posted by moob

The USA really needs to sort out access to firearms. I know its a cliche, but how many more of these incidents have to happen before something changes with how easy it is to get hold of a deadly weapon?

I cannot understand those who see the answer as getting more guns to protect themselves.

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Concealed carry is the best way for citizens to protect themselves and others. While I agree that something needs to be done, taking firearms away is not gonna stop bad oeople from getting their hands on them. The reason, they either own them illegally or they have stolen them. The only firearms that will be taken away are the ones that are registered to law abiding citizens as they are the only guns that can be tracked. That was comung from my concealed carry instructor last night who has over 30 years on the police force.

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Concealed carry is a decent deterrent in that criminals are less likely to strike where there is an abundance of armed individuals, however tests have shown though that even the most experienced shooters when put in a situation like many school shootings will fail to even get a shot off.

A study took several competitive target shooters and put them in a classroom/boardroom settings while having them carry a concealed weapon that fired paint pellets. At some point a gunman would burst into the room not knowing where the concealed gun holder was and would try to hit as many people in the room as possible.(also with paint)
Absolutely none of the target shooters was able to hit the gunman before taking several shots themselves, less than half managed to return a single shot, and several didn't even get the gun out of their clothing.

The problem was that while these shooters were excellent shots, they had never been shot at before and had no idea how to handle the situation when put under pressure. I think this would be different for someone like Bojangalz who's job has prepared him for that kind of situation, or for someone with combat experience. For the majority of us, we'd be more dangerous being armed in a situation like that than we would be helpful.

I have no idea what the solution is to the United States gun violence problem, but i'm sure the answer isn't more guns.

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Its not only about that specific situation. It also has to do with carjackings, home invasion, open area assault, walk up situations. I get that it isn't as easy as pulling it out and neutralizing a threat. To me its about the piece of mind in know that if something happens I have something more than my hands. Ive heard about and seen more than one situation where a person with concealed carry was able to neutralize a thread and save countless people. Plus, it wouldnt necessarily mean more guns. I already own mine as do a lot that have gotten the permit

This whole thing is fucking disgusting. Those poor kids and their family's. My little girls are 6 and 7. I'd want to die if I lost them.

On the gun control discussion....
Anyone proclaiming the need for tighter gun control has never been in a life-or-death situation where someone breaks into your apartment/house. I have twice.
Gun control is not the issue here. It's mental issues.

Why don't we make crack and heroin illegal in order to get them off our streets?
Oh wait....nevermind.

The main reason I feel school shootings happen is because the shooter knows schools are a place where the majority of people aren't strapped and can't shoot back.

There are other means of defending yourself apart from using a gun. In the uk we have drug addicts who break into homes to steal etc. I know folk who have protection in the form of a baseball bat.

The reason we don't feel the need to protect ourselves against guns by having one is primarily down to gun law.

We do have crazies who have harmed kids in schools using guns. The reason you can count those incidents on one hand is because of gun law.

On the protection with a louieville slugger, that'd be great if the intruder was also armed with a bat.

You think these shootings are mostly related to how easily it is for US citizens to obtain guns.
I think it is mostly related to mental illness.

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Posted by Copenhagen

On the protection with a louieville slugger, that'd be great if the intruder was also armed with a bat.

You think these shootings are mostly related to how easily it is for US citizens to obtain guns.
I think it is mostly related to mental illness.

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Your first statement cements my point.

The second raises questions about the degree of mental illness being higher in the US than the UK, but ignores the fact there are far more guns in the US.

I'd like to see a list of how many school shootings in the UK compared to the US.
Then take into account UK is 3 times smaller.
I wish I had the time.

Quick check on Wikipedia shows 1 school shooting in UK, Dunblane, 1996.

USA - think I counted 97 since 1996 by way of comparison.

I've been on the fence about gun control for a long time. The more I see this kind of thing happen, the more I think that guns are too accessible in the states, and the number of guns out there is a major issue. I don't know how to change these things, people already have the guns, it's been legal to own them for over 200 years, and red tape is going to be a major issue in passing any legislature. What I do know is that if there were less guns out there, less people would get shot, that's simple math. I also know that something has to change for this kind of mass shooting to stop being commonplace in this country.

This isn't just a gun issue, or a mental health issue, they're intertwined here. Both things need to be addressed. I don't want my son's, or nieces' or nephews' schools to be the next ones on the news, honestly, I don't want to see anyone's kids on the news for something like this. I hope the people in charge that are smarter than me can figure out some way to make the necessary changes to make sure this doesn't happen again.

One of the significant problems facing political change regards gun law, is the very powerful association between the NRA and a frighteningly large number of politicians in power.

Dan Quayle apparently just sold off a gun company he had shares in.

Upsetting that behemoth of an applecart will take massive bollocks.

Given the undoubted underlying grief of the public at large, this year alone in the US, I'd wager an amnesty may be a step in the right direction and relatively successful.

Taking a police sciences Uni course I have to agree with moob here...

Having armed officers at every school?! Why? Why add to the number of people with guns!!! So the killer gets to the school shoots him and he can take his gun? More ammo.

Americas gun crime is ridiculous and I know people have them from protection but at the end of the day, what from? Another guy with a gun! If nobody is allowed guns then would you be afraid?

The British gun law was changed after that one incident in Scotland. Not 90+ after that incident. And we didn't just change it in Scotland we changed it in all of Britain. Why haven't you guys learnt from other states mistakes and other countries mistakes? Societies make big mistakes

In the past burning women because we thought they were witches was acceptable. In the past rounding up black people and selling them was normal. Maybe society should now learn not to arm yourself with a gun to defend yourself from a person with a gun, and remove guns?

Easier said than done Jay, although I'd love to hear how people propose we get rid of them. It's easy to say that, but when a law has been in place allowing them for over 2 centuries, how do you get rid of them?

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Posted by cowcatcher

Easier said than done Jay, although I'd love to hear how people propose we get rid of them. It's easy to say that, but when a law has been in place allowing them for over 2 centuries, how do you get rid of them?

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I understand entirely what you are saying and personally I don't know how, maybe make it a criminal offence to own a firearm without a licence... If people are found with them they can be fined. If people are found with a firearm on there person in a public place they can be sentenced. Make purchasing weapons without a license an offence.

Licenses should only be incredibly expensive and have to be updated frequently, making the desire to own one decrease. Licenses should only be given to people with no criminal convictions

I really don't know, I'm literally just a 21 year old studying at Uni, not a politician or even an American but I've never held anything more than a carnival cork firing gun in my life and I've only seen the police etc carrying them, there's no desire or dying passion for me to hold one. Maybe I'm an exception

Brandon vera posted something on his fb page about this.. and what he basically said is don't blame it on guns and video games, blame it on bad parenting.

i completely disagreed with him on this and said something similiar as the following.

In Tasmania, Australia 1996, there was a man by the name of Martin Bryant who shot dead 35 men, women and children in a cafe. After this incident our then prime minister John Howard banned all automatic rifles and shotguns. We have not had a single mass shooting since then. Suicides by gunshot have dropped, robberies with guns and homicide with guns have dropped by over 50% in a ten year period.

If guns were illegal and very hard to get like in Australia then this tragedy would never have even happened. It is very simple. Take the guns away and less people will get killed.

If this psycho does not have a gun or cannot get access to a gun, these children live.