I got to get this off my chest....

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Posted by kopower

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Don't you want to understand why this man did this, and figure out a way to prevent it in the future?

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So you want to study an insane person? If he is in fact insane, then there was no specific reason he did this. What can we possibly gain? Everyone that knew this guy has said he was a normal dude, and never acted out before. Go ahead and try to question him, that's fine, but I don't see how the shootings could have been prevented by previous studies of the clinically insane.

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Why would we want to? Because we can prevent it, warglory just said that and we have prevented it before. We can find out what triggers this, how it works on a neurological level, more in detail about how brain states work, to not understand is to want to wallow in ignorance and throw your hands up. Like I said earlier it's the equivalent of saying "demons cause sickness" when we know better and we want to study it because we want to understand and prevent sickness. It's kind of like also saying "why understand cancer, it's such a meanie".

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Posted by jae_1833

No medical processes have been done to show wether or not he has any illness....in fact he is 24a and never even been in counseling....why would I ignore medical science? Stop attacking me bro....first I am a Zealot and now I am a member of a political party you don't like? Dude....I don't claim any party, ever....your trying to say have mercy on a mentally unstable person, which normally would be ok, except the fact that this guy has no history of any mental condition. His parents and fellow students claim he was a little wierd, but never thought he was nutty. Seriously even if he was, learn what science you want from his autopsy. There are plenty of "mentally ill" criminals in jail already to run science projects on. Or how about this....kill all of those assholes too and do your experiments on volunteers.

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Straw man again, never said anything about mercy

Fallacy of many questions, you called me a 'liberal' first it had nothing to do with politics and I didn't actually call you anything if you wanna re-read.

Fallacy of false cause, you also said, there is no illness, no depression, no childhood bullshit, this embodies true evil... first of all prove the concept evil because the scientific community isn't on your side there

Argument from ignorance, saying no medical processes have been done and saying he's never been to counselling is irrelevant.

Your last sentence makes me believe you really are not educated on the topic.

Use volunteers..okay..since those volunteers aren't the ones who did anything so therefore we learn nothing, back to square one.

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Posted by Cooler

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Posted by kopower

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Don't you want to understand why this man did this, and figure out a way to prevent it in the future?

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So you want to study an insane person? If he is in fact insane, then there was no specific reason he did this. What can we possibly gain? Everyone that knew this guy has said he was a normal dude, and never acted out before. Go ahead and try to question him, that's fine, but I don't see how the shootings could have been prevented by previous studies of the clinically insane.

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Why would we want to? Because we can prevent it, warglory just said that and we have prevented it before. We can find out what triggers this, how it works on a neurological level, more in detail about how brain states work, to not understand is to want to wallow in ignorance and throw your hands up. Like I said earlier it's the equivalent of saying "demons cause sickness" when we know better and we want to study it because we want to understand and prevent sickness. It's kind of like also saying "why understand cancer, it's such a meanie".

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I get where you are coming from, I do. It would be great if science could find a "trigger", and prevent these things from happening. However, how can you prevent something like this when somebody has never had a psychological red flag? Holmes dropping out of school may have been it, but does that warrant a trip to the Dr.? Some people don't want help, even if it's available.

Btw, sorry PF for becoming involved in totally changing the content of the thread. you started.

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Posted by kopower

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Posted by Cooler

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Posted by kopower

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Don't you want to understand why this man did this, and figure out a way to prevent it in the future?

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So you want to study an insane person? If he is in fact insane, then there was no specific reason he did this. What can we possibly gain? Everyone that knew this guy has said he was a normal dude, and never acted out before. Go ahead and try to question him, that's fine, but I don't see how the shootings could have been prevented by previous studies of the clinically insane.

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Why would we want to? Because we can prevent it, warglory just said that and we have prevented it before. We can find out what triggers this, how it works on a neurological level, more in detail about how brain states work, to not understand is to want to wallow in ignorance and throw your hands up. Like I said earlier it's the equivalent of saying "demons cause sickness" when we know better and we want to study it because we want to understand and prevent sickness. It's kind of like also saying "why understand cancer, it's such a meanie".

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I get where you are coming from, I do. It would be great if science could find a "trigger", and prevent these things from happening. However, how can you prevent something like this when somebody has never had a psychological red flag? Holmes dropping out of school may have been it, but does that warrant a trip to the Dr.? Some people don't want help, even if it's available.

Btw, sorry PF for becoming involved in totally changing the content of the thread. you started.

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Yes you're right, mentally ill people tend to think they are normal and refuse help, happens all the time unfortunately. There's a lot of negative connotations with being labeled "crazy" or even a little mentally ill which depression falls under and lots of people suffer from. In fact it's probably still one the least diagnosed mental illness in the world and it's hard to treat.

If the shooters signs of debilitating mental health had been more easily spotted or seen someone could've helped him or had him committed to a mental hospital. Are you actually saying we couldn't have been prevented it? it's a lot easier than it sounds trust me. Hate to use the sickness analogy again but if someone shows symptoms of an illness they are treated whether or not they feel bad or not and regardless of if they want help or not, they better if they want to live longer. Or I could use suicidal people for an example, why should we help them? why should we understand their brains if we don't want to help them? And aren't they just not help-able?

So, your the scientific community now? The dude has NO MENTAL ILLNESS.....he is simply an asshole. It's not that complex, proof of evil is all around you. Do you believe in anything yet unproven by science? We all do....science is not going to disprove evil, just rename it. Regardless of the reasons/excuses that is found through the investigation....I pray he gets killed in prison much like Jeffery Dahmer.

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If the shooters signs of debilitating mental health had been more easily spotted or seen someone could've helped him or had him committed to a mental hospital. Are you actually saying we couldn't have been prevented it? it's a lot easier than it sounds trust me. Hate to use the sickness analogy again but if someone shows symptoms of an illness they are treated whether or not they feel bad or not and regardless of if they want help or not, they better if they want to live longer. Or I could use suicidal people for an example, why should we help them? why should we understand their brains if we don't want to help them? And aren't they just not help-able?

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I don't think a lot of these shootings could have been prevented. Take your example of cancer. People can go years not knowing they have it, then all of a sudden, boom, it pops up out of nowhere, and you only have a few weeks to live. One could have done everything right in their lives, eating right, no family history, exercise, etc. and still get it. I think the same could be said of mental illness. The human body is so complex, and I think things can just happen. Something can just snap on a perfectly normal person, and science may not detect it. Maybe there is something in our dna, or some biological trigger that makes these things happen, but I just find it hard to believe that finding this trigger, will prevent bad things from happening.

So let's say science does discover a mental illness trigger. what then? Does this person automatically get psychic evaluations every month to see how they're doing? Are they never allowed to purchase a firearm? Society cannot monitor people 24/7. Take my family history for example. My father's side of the family unfortunately has cancer written all over it. My grandpa died from it, and my dad, and all of his brothers and sister have had it. I know there is a high probablility I will get it one day. Maybe I have it now? Knowing this, I should be eating healthy everyday, and doing everything I can to prevent my body from getting cancer, but I don't. I should be going to the Dr. for regular check ups, but again, I don't. It's probably not a smart move on my part. Before people are labeled mentally ill, there may have been warning signs, and they chose to ignore them. I just don't see how science can prevent this, even if triggers are detected. I know you are not saying all massacres like these can be prevented. Maybe some of them could be, and that would be great.

Again, go ahead and question him, or perform various medical testing while he's awaiting his execution. The death penalty doesn't normally take place right away. Maybe we can get some useful information before his life ends. Hell, maybe knowing he might be put to death may make him talk. I kind of rambled on there, so hopefully I tackled a few of your points.

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Posted by jae_1833

So, your the scientific community now? The dude has NO MENTAL ILLNESS.....he is simply an asshole. It's not that complex, proof of evil is all around you. Do you believe in anything yet unproven by science? We all do....science is not going to disprove evil, just rename it. Regardless of the reasons/excuses that is found through the investigation....I pray he gets killed in prison much like Jeffery Dahmer.

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How do you know he has no mental illness? You don't know this person. You are typing with emotion and nothing else, which is the antithesis to logical thought.

Evil doesn't exist, as absolute goodness doesn't exist either. Can you name one person who is perfect? With no faults? Because if what you say is true, that there are people who are absolute evil for the sake of being evil, than there must be the opposite, with people who can do no wrong. Do you see why your argument is fallacious now? As overused as it is, the yin and yang symbol speaks volumes about the nature of humanity. You are trivializing the complexity of the human mind into black and white, with no grey.

Hussein, Hitler, Gacy and Dahmer are pure evil.....Ghandi, Mother Teresa and George W. Bush are pure good.I belive in love, hate, aliens, ghosts and a higher power all unproveable by modern science. I do have emotion connected to this in particular situation but I am also speaking logically, sure do a test, experiment on him....but kill him as an example and as a way to at least make a small attempt to alleviate the grief of the hundred or so affected by this horrible individual. And your correct I don't know him directly but I do read on the situation and talk yo people who are currently involved in the investigation. He was working on his phd and did study mental illness and i feel he will claim some sort of bs after the fact to place the blame on something other than himself. The guy has no history of mental illness and I have family with mental illness who also study it in detail, it doesn't strike those in their mid twenties without serious symptoms that have lasted several years (meaning they had it all along). The dude is evil is my way of simplifying and being pc....he is an asshole is maybe more medically more accurate. However I wont buy into some claims of instability that relieves him of responsibility or punishment.

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Posted by kopower

I don't think a lot of these shootings could have been prevented. Take your example of cancer. People can go years not knowing they have it, then all of a sudden, boom, it pops up out of nowhere, and you only have a few weeks to live. One could have done everything right in their lives, eating right, no family history, exercise, etc. and still get it. I think the same could be said of mental illness. The human body is so complex, and I think things can just happen. Something can just snap on a perfectly normal person, and science may not detect it. Maybe there is something in our dna, or some biological trigger that makes these things happen, but I just find it hard to believe that finding this trigger, will prevent bad things from happening.

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Well science has mapped the entire human genome, which essentially means we have the potential knowledge to isolate genes in individual people to narrow down their potential for various cancers along with other illnesses, including mental. Parents have the option these days of doing these very tests on their newborns, and adults can have similar tests done as well. Is this new science? Yes. Is it foolproof? No. It's a process. In a nutshell, those people diagnosed with rare cancers than come up out of nowhere, have the great potential of being saved or at least detected early based on age, sex, etc

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So let's say science does discover a mental illness trigger. what then? Does this person automatically get psychic evaluations every month to see how they're doing? Are they never allowed to purchase a firearm? Society cannot monitor people 24/7. Take my family history for example. My father's side of the family unfortunately has cancer written all over it. My grandpa died from it, and my dad, and all of his brothers and sister have had it. I know there is a high probablility I will get it one day. Maybe I have it now? Knowing this, I should be eating healthy everyday, and doing everything I can to prevent my body from getting cancer, but I don't. I should be going to the Dr. for regular check ups, but again, I don't. It's probably not a smart move on my part. Before people are labeled mentally ill, there may have been warning signs, and they chose to ignore them. I just don't see how science can prevent this, even if triggers are detected. I know you are not saying all massacres like these can be prevented. Maybe some of them could be, and that would be great.

Again, go ahead and question him, or perform various medical testing while he's awaiting his execution. The death penalty doesn't normally take place right away. Maybe we can get some useful information before his life ends. Hell, maybe knowing he might be put to death may make him talk. I kind of rambled on there, so hopefully I tackled a few of your points.

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Millions of people who suffer from mental illness are treated every day, because we have diagnosed people with this illness. Read the following article about post partum depression for example. This is a very common disorder amongst woman, yet for some, this form of depression can have drastic consequences for their child.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200212/moms-who-kill

Or what about soldiers who suffer from post traumatic stress disorder? This is a well studied, proven mental illness, where people who suffer from it can do some crazy things. Should these people be tossed into prison simply because they do something harmful to themselves and others? Or should they be placed with people who can rehabilitate and treat people for not only their sake, but for the prevention of future episodes of other people suffering?

Here is also another couple of articles about how many severely mentally ill people end up in the prison system without proper treatment.

http://www.safetyandjustice.org/news/1953

http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=Issue_Spotlights&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=21046

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Posted by jae_1833

Hussein, Hitler, Gacy and Dahmer are pure evil.....Ghandi, Mother Teresa and George W. Bush are pure good.I belive in love, hate, aliens, ghosts and a higher power all unproveable by modern science. I do have emotion connected to this in particular situation but I am also speaking logically, sure do a test, experiment on him....but kill him as an example and as a way to at least make a small attempt to alleviate the grief of the hundred or so affected by this horrible individual.

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You really believe that Ghandi and Mother Teresa were perfect humans with no faults, or are you being facetious?

Do you honestly believe Hitler was not pure evil.....I am just putting things into perspective so that you can understand my opinion.....I am sure Ghandi etc have done some minor things that were less than great but in actions you leave your legacy. This man, as with others are bad.....plain and simple.

it's cool guys. serious topics end up w/ serious debate.

keep it civil so no one gets in trouble & remember the reason for the thread

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Posted by jae_1833

Do you honestly believe Hitler was not pure evil.....I am just putting things into perspective so that you can understand my opinion.....I am sure Ghandi etc have done some minor things that were less than great but in actions you leave your legacy. This man, as with others are bad.....plain and simple.

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No, I don't believe Hitler was pure evil. I think he truly believed in what he was doing, or else he wouldn't have been able to have the "success" that he had and influenced so many people. Hitler wasn't doing it for the sake of being evil, he had an end goal for the betterment of his Aryan people. I also believe he had a healthy dose of psychosis as well, that probably drove him.

I am not talking about Ghandi's legacy, I am talking about him as a person. Legacy is merely what the public think of him, which doesn't necessarily match up with reality (i.e. Joe Paterno). The point is, Ghandi wasn't perfect, because he is human. Just as he couldn't be absolute evil, because he is human.

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Posted by jae_1833

So, your the scientific community now? The dude has NO MENTAL ILLNESS.....he is simply an asshole. It's not that complex, proof of evil is all around you. Do you believe in anything yet unproven by science? We all do....science is not going to disprove evil, just rename it. Regardless of the reasons/excuses that is found through the investigation....I pray he gets killed in prison much like Jeffery Dahmer.

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Couple more straw man fallacies, I guess I shouldn't be shocked.

And good luck with that praying, we have a saying around here, nothing fails like prayer. And actually yes the idea of evil has been debunked as we know more about the brain and how it works instead of just making a blanket statement of evil based on bronze age idealism. I'm curious if you actually read anything I said or if you were just emotional the whole time because I think my analogy about claiming sickness is caused by demons is the same argument you're trying to pass along and yes it's against the scientific community and science isn't a thing it's an application of the evidence, which the concept of evil has none of.

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Posted by jae_1833

Do you honestly believe Hitler was not pure evil.....I am just putting things into perspective so that you can understand my opinion.....I am sure Ghandi etc have done some minor things that were less than great but in actions you leave your legacy. This man, as with others are bad.....plain and simple.

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Hitler was a Catholic and they are a Christian sect, so I guess that puts you in the same boat as him or did the "devil" do it? In the beginning of Mein Kampf Hitler claims to be doing everything for the "almighty creator" and was just following a passage from in the bible from Mark about persecuting the Jews. So you can actually thank religion for the holocaust, not some idea that an invisible force we cant test did it with no evidence.

Those were interesting reads warglory. I know first hand how bad postpartum depression is, as my wife suffered through it. I had to coax her into going to the hospital, because she became so mentally drained, and physically ill. That is part of my argument. She knew she was heading downhill, yet maintained she was fine, and denied help. It wasn't until she hit rock bottom, and her family basically telling her she had to get help, that she finally did. Obviously, she was dealing with some mental issues at the time, and we could see warning signs. I think this form of depression is much different than someone that goes out and shoots strangers though. Holmes was obviously not right in the head, and maybe one point, knew he was heading down a bad path, but chose not to do anything about it. Some people get help, yet others deny it, and bad things tend to happen if left untreated. This is what I keep coming back to it seems. How could the shootings have been prevented, if the shooter never showed signs of mental illness?

Back to the main debate of should he get the death penalty. Again, this was well thought out, and planned. He may not have been in his right mind, but lives were taken. What good would rehabbing this man do? How can we ever be certain that somebody going postal, like the Colorado shootings, can be a functioning member of society, and not have a relapse, and kill again? So he stays in a mental hospital the rest of his life?What is more ethical, to turn Holmes into a human guinea pig, or take his life in return for his actions? I guess I need to here more about Holmes and the trial, in order to pass judgement. I also think it depends on the situation, and person.

You all are so new age anti religion and unable to hear me make a simple post on my opinion that I am greatly appreciating the fact that I dont know you on any personal level......hope that life of yours stays perfect and priveledged enough to always be correct and try and deny someone else of their beliefs. In short .....I'm out.

ehhh, it's kind of crazy the amount of assumptions being made here.

What if the guy had undiagnosed paranoid schizophrenia and he literally had NO CONTROL over his actions? We don't know. It's pointless to even speculate until he's diagnosed by medical professionals, which he will be, because it's standard protocol when someone murders a bunch of people for apparently no reason.

Maybe he was just pissed off at the world, maybe he was mentally ill, maybe someone held his parents hostage and ordered him to do it, obviously that's far fetched, but the point is no one here has any information at all about his mental state or reasons for his actions apart from what they maybe read on wikipedia or heard from a news reporter.

Why not wait until we have some kind of information about the situation other than he shot a bunch of people and went to ivy league schools before we start arguing about it?

Generally it's a pretty safe bet that the perpetrator of a crime like this has some kind of mental disorder, but again, we don't know. Let the professionals do what they're trained to do and make your decisions once you have access to verifiable information. We have police, judges, lawyers, doctors, etc. for a reason. They'll spend the next 3+ years figuring out every detail of the case, examine it all and THEN they'll make a decision. Just like any rational person should do.

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Posted by jae_1833

You all are so new age anti religion and unable to hear me make a simple post on my opinion that I am greatly appreciating the fact that I dont know you on any personal level......hope that life of yours stays perfect and priveledged enough to always be correct and try and deny someone else of their beliefs. In short .....I'm out.

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I'm not sure why you're making direct reference to us as people. I can only speak for myself when I say that I am well aware that the world is a fucked up place, but I hold humanity in a higher regard I guess for the possibilities that we possess to learn and adapt based on the slow betterment of society, generation after generation. Public executions were once common in Europe, yet most European nations don't even have the death penalty anymore. This is called progress, because killing someone who has wronged society brings no benefit beyond the brief satisfaction of revenge. I don't want to make this into a capital punishment debate as that is a whole other thing, I am just trying to understand why you choose to view such a complex issue in black and white terms, when pretty much anything we say and do as a people is in gray scale. There is no easy fix to this mess, and killing off someone to satisfy a relatively small number of folks (who will suffer and try and make sense of all of this madness regardless if this guy lives or dies) solves absolutely nothing for us as a nation and a people.

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Posted by kopower

Those were interesting reads warglory. I know first hand how bad postpartum depression is, as my wife suffered through it. I had to coax her into going to the hospital, because she became so mentally drained, and physically ill. That is part of my argument. She knew she was heading downhill, yet maintained she was fine, and denied help. It wasn't until she hit rock bottom, and her family basically telling her she had to get help, that she finally did. Obviously, she was dealing with some mental issues at the time, and we could see warning signs. I think this form of depression is much different than someone that goes out and shoots strangers though. Holmes was obviously not right in the head, and maybe one point, knew he was heading down a bad path, but chose not to do anything about it. Some people get help, yet others deny it, and bad things tend to happen if left untreated. This is what I keep coming back to it seems. How could the shootings have been prevented, if the shooter never showed signs of mental illness?

Back to the main debate of should he get the death penalty. Again, this was well thought out, and planned. He may not have been in his right mind, but lives were taken. What good would rehabbing this man do? How can we ever be certain that somebody going postal, like the Colorado shootings, can be a functioning member of society, and not have a relapse, and kill again? So he stays in a mental hospital the rest of his life?What is more ethical, to turn Holmes into a human guinea pig, or take his life in return for his actions? I guess I need to here more about Holmes and the trial, in order to pass judgement. I also think it depends on the situation, and person.

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Well I certainly hope you're wife is in much better spirits these days.

And you're right, as Aether said, we are rushing to conclusions a bit before knowing the facts about what his condition is. If he is found to be criminally insane though, I do believe he should spend the rest of his life in a mental institution just for the very fact we know what he is capable of. I am not under the illusion that we should let a murderer roam free, but if we can learn something from his condition, whatever it may be, than it will be worth his life long incarceration.

Because no matter what I have said it keeps getting brought up that I called him evil, and that gets turned into me saying that he is possessed by the devil and religion and political parties etc....it's a shit debate that repeatedly refers back to the dark ages.....capital punishment opinions all sorts of crap....I am just not a believer in that bullshit. I was depressed so I killed a dozen people....fuck you! If your depressed do us a favor and kill yourself. If Daddy fondled your little nuts....fuck you! I dont give two shits or a fuck! Die!!!!! NOW!!!! Just go to hell where you belong and where you put a hundred plus people....you have earned it.

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Posted by jae_1833

Because no matter what I have said it keeps getting brought up that I called him evil, and that gets turned into me saying that he is possessed by the devil and religion and political parties etc....it's a shit debate that repeatedly refers back to the dark ages.....capital punishment opinions all sorts of crap....I am just not a believer in that bullshit. I was depressed so I killed a dozen people....fuck you! If your depressed, if Daddy fondled your little nuts....fuck you! I dont give two shits or a fuck! Die!!!!! NOW!!!! Just go to hell where you belong and where you put a hundred plus people....you have earned it.

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Right, I sort of agree with you, if the person was just angry and wanted to kill people, they deserve the death penalty and there's not much point in paying tax dollars to keep them alive until they die of natural causes in a little concrete box.

The thing is that we don't know what the issue is with this incident yet. It could be something like the incident on a greyhound bus a few years ago where someone chopped a guy's head off because he was hearing God giving him orders. There are legitimate illnesses where the person has absolutely no control over their actions or ability to distinguish right from wrong that really do need to be treated and understood more fully, where the "criminal" has no responsibility for his actions.

We don't know yet.

sunshine, lollipops and rainbows, everything that's wonderful is what i feel when we're together.

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Posted by aussiemma

sunshine, lollipops and rainbows, everything that's wonderful is what i feel when we're together.

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And that is my problem....putting the word criminal in quotes and saying he has no responsibility or control over his actions. It's crap....he IS a criminal and he IS responsible for the killings. I dont care if he heard, saw, played checkers with a real celestial being. I dont care if he is full blown pyschopathic schizophrenic and has adhd all rolled into one.

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Posted by jae_1833

And that is my problem....putting the word criminal in quotes and saying he has no responsibility or control over his actions. It's crap....he IS a criminal and he IS responsible for the killings. I dont care if he heard, saw, played checkers with a real celestial being. I dont care if he is full blown pyschopathic schizophrenic and has adhd all rolled into one.

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Then you're an ignorant person who made his mind up without knowing any facts at all about the situation. Sorry.

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Posted by jae_1833

You all are so new age anti religion and unable to hear me make a simple post on my opinion that I am greatly appreciating the fact that I dont know you on any personal level......hope that life of yours stays perfect and priveledged enough to always be correct and try and deny someone else of their beliefs. In short .....I'm out.

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Freedom from religion is something you should value too, it's the reason you get to choose your beliefs in the first place.

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Posted by jae_1833

Because no matter what I have said it keeps getting brought up that I called him evil, and that gets turned into me saying that he is possessed by the devil and religion and political parties etc....it's a shit debate that repeatedly refers back to the dark ages.....capital punishment opinions all sorts of crap....I am just not a believer in that bullshit. I was depressed so I killed a dozen people....fuck you! If your depressed do us a favor and kill yourself. If Daddy fondled your little nuts....fuck you! I dont give two shits or a fuck! Die!!!!! NOW!!!! Just go to hell where you belong and where you put a hundred plus people....you have earned it.

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Demonstrable facts over arbitrary opinions imo but to each their own. When you start floating words around like evil, it presumes a few things upon itself, it shows you believe in some kind of god thing or supernatural ideas. We have a better understanding of our brains and who we are then to cling to unsupported belief there is an invisible force that reeks havoc, and that there is control behind it, when the thing hasn't been proven in the first place.

I asked you yesterday to prove the concept of evil (with actual evidence) and you said "look around"..How about first attributing where your idea of evil came from and prove it's cause is a creator, nobody has their Nobel prize for that yet and believe me many many many people are trying. Historically most of the horrible things that happened resulted from primitive superstitious ideas, so if you want to find "evil" go no further than your church and ask an alter boy how his day went.

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Posted by jae_1833

And that is my problem....putting the word criminal in quotes and saying he has no responsibility or control over his actions. It's crap....he IS a criminal and he IS responsible for the killings. I dont care if he heard, saw, played checkers with a real celestial being. I dont care if he is full blown pyschopathic schizophrenic and has adhd all rolled into one.

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How Quaint. I was definitely right earlier that you condone medical Science.

Anyone else considering any parallels between "The Joker" (with the wrong color hair) and Anders Breivik? People speculate why he didn't blow up the theater instead of shoot it up...I seem to remember Anders writing his own manifesto of sorts, discussing the pros and cons of bombs vs guns should one be interested in murdering a large quantity of people. I wonder if he actually took a page out of Anders book or was even inspired by him.
Despite all of the pain and suffering caused by this incident, word is that Westboro is at it again and is protesting something or other at the memorial service for these poor people. Stay classy W.B.