A Challenge to the Playground

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gartface
10/31/11 4:07:20PM
Josh(BlueSkiesBurn) and I talked on our last show about the hype surrounding Alistair Overeem. We made a challenge, and a proclamation, or whatever you want to call it. We want you to call in on Thursday night and tell us why we should believe that Alistair Overeem is worth the hype that he's garnered.

jjeans
10/31/11 4:08:27PM
Ill call... If I was american lol
emfleek
10/31/11 4:14:56PM

Posted by jjeans

Ill call... If I was american lol



That shouldn't matter unless you're referring to the timezone differential.
jjeans
10/31/11 4:19:52PM

Posted by emfleek


Posted by jjeans

Ill call... If I was american lol



That shouldn't matter unless you're referring to the timezone differential.



That and the price!
emfleek
10/31/11 4:20:46PM

Posted by jjeans

That and the price!



D'oh...didn't even think about that.
kopower
10/31/11 4:39:57PM
I'll try and call in if I'm off work in time.
gartface
10/31/11 5:58:34PM

Posted by jjeans


Posted by emfleek


Posted by jjeans

Ill call... If I was american lol



That shouldn't matter unless you're referring to the timezone differential.



That and the price!


Jay, if I'm not mistaken, if you have Skype, you can just join the call with us on that. We use Skype to do the podcast.
jjeans
10/31/11 6:32:33PM

Posted by gartface


Posted by jjeans


Posted by emfleek


Posted by jjeans

Ill call... If I was american lol



That shouldn't matter unless you're referring to the timezone differential.



That and the price!


Jay, if I'm not mistaken, if you have Skype, you can just join the call with us on that. We use Skype to do the podcast.



Hellll yeaaahhhhh I'm in boys, Ill stay up!!! 6:30pm is about 11:30pm.

Ill do some research and give you a good answer, PGers dont judge me! Just doing the boys a favour!
BlueSkiesBurn
10/31/11 6:44:41PM
Yeah, for those of you overseas, we will make an exception and Skype you in on the call just add the following name to your Skype account.

Our Skype account: PlaygroundAtWork

EDIT: I say make an exception because it's a bit more difficult to angle the Skype route because I have to put the show on hold and conference you in. There will be a bit of dead air while I do so. (like 5-10 seconds)

This is as opposed to the number provided on the Studio where I can just add calls right into the show.

I totally don't mind doing this because I realize some of our best posters are all the way in the UK and I am not the kind of asshole that's going to make them incur the cost of calling the States to participate in this.

WAR UK CALLERS
prophecy033
10/31/11 6:45:04PM

Posted by jjeans


Posted by gartface


Posted by jjeans


Posted by emfleek


Posted by jjeans

Ill call... If I was american lol



That shouldn't matter unless you're referring to the timezone differential.



That and the price!


Jay, if I'm not mistaken, if you have Skype, you can just join the call with us on that. We use Skype to do the podcast.



Hellll yeaaahhhhh I'm in boys, Ill stay up!!! 6:30pm is about 11:30pm.

Ill do some research and give you a good answer, PGers dont judge me! Just doing the boys a favour!

Jay, dude, your family bro. No judging whatsoever
BlueSkiesBurn
10/31/11 6:48:25PM

Posted by prophecy033


Posted by jjeans


Posted by gartface


Posted by jjeans


Posted by emfleek


Posted by jjeans

Ill call... If I was american lol



That shouldn't matter unless you're referring to the timezone differential.



That and the price!


Jay, if I'm not mistaken, if you have Skype, you can just join the call with us on that. We use Skype to do the podcast.



Hellll yeaaahhhhh I'm in boys, Ill stay up!!! 6:30pm is about 11:30pm.

Ill do some research and give you a good answer, PGers dont judge me! Just doing the boys a favour!

Jay, dude, your family bro. No judging whatsoever



Totally man. We're only gonna make fun of your accent. That's all.
ncordless
10/31/11 6:53:18PM
I won't be able to call cause I'm gonna be taking my daughter trick or treating, but I do have a couple thoughts that you guys can bring up.

1. Alistair has always had mad skills. His problem at LHW was that he would gas badly after about 2 minutes. This has not been an issue since he allowed himself to beef up on horse meat. Generally, fighters at LHW have much better skills than HW fighters. Therefore, if Alistair has the skills he had at LHW without as much of the cardio problems, he should be and has shown to be a dangerous fight for most HWs.

2. People make a big deal out of his K-1 success, and while it is impressive, there are particular things about Alistair's technique in K-1 that do not translate well to MMA. Alistair's K-1 success is built upon his defense. He Keeps his hands up and tight in front of his face. That works for him with the big gloves, but as shown in his fight with Werdum, does not work very well when he has the 4ozers on because they are not big enough to deflect a well placed jab.

3. People undersell Alistair's HW accomplishments. His big wins are Werdum, Duffie, Rogers, Buentello. He was also demolishing Cro Cop before he sent his testacles back from whence they came. Werdum is a legit top win, no matter how ugly it was. Rogers and Duffie, while not the fighters that people thought they were, would both be servicable UFC fighters. Buentello has faded hard since his fight with Alistair, but at the time had UFC skills as well. Cro Cop is a legend, and proved in the last year that he still had some game that made him UFC-level. It is true that Duffie/Rogers/Buentello/Hunt/Cro Cop are not world beaters, but is it really that much worse than Morris/OBrien/Stoijnic/Kongo/Rothwell/Big Nog? Because that was Cain's credentials when he fought Brock. In the end, you have to look at the competition and also what they have done with it. Cain dominated those guys. So has Overeem.

4. Finally, what does it mean to be worth the hype? If anything, Overeem is more worth the hype than most because it has been created outside of the traditional UFC machine. This guy's hype comes from his accomplishments in K-1 and the media he has done, espeically his documentary. Saying he is worth the hype to me is different than saying he is worthy of a title shot. Overeem got his hype the hard way, so to me he is worth it.


That said, I think he gets exposed against Lesnar for his bad striking defense in MMA and his size eventually making him gas. But it will be interesting because both him and Lesnar have the same defects.
jjeans
10/31/11 6:56:31PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by prophecy033


Posted by jjeans


Posted by gartface


Posted by jjeans


Posted by emfleek


Posted by jjeans

Ill call... If I was american lol



That shouldn't matter unless you're referring to the timezone differential.



That and the price!


Jay, if I'm not mistaken, if you have Skype, you can just join the call with us on that. We use Skype to do the podcast.



Hellll yeaaahhhhh I'm in boys, Ill stay up!!! 6:30pm is about 11:30pm.

Ill do some research and give you a good answer, PGers dont judge me! Just doing the boys a favour!

Jay, dude, your family bro. No judging whatsoever



Totally man. We're only gonna make fun of your accent. That's all.



Go for it! I'll love it!!!
jjeans
10/31/11 6:57:56PM

Posted by ncordless

I won't be able to call cause I'm gonna be taking my daughter trick or treating, but I do have a couple thoughts that you guys can bring up.

1. Alistair has always had mad skills. His problem at LHW was that he would gas badly after about 2 minutes. This has not been an issue since he allowed himself to beef up on horse meat. Generally, fighters at LHW have much better skills than HW fighters. Therefore, if Alistair has the skills he had at LHW without as much of the cardio problems, he should be and has shown to be a dangerous fight for most HWs.

2. People make a big deal out of his K-1 success, and while it is impressive, there are particular things about Alistair's technique in K-1 that do not translate well to MMA. Alistair's K-1 success is built upon his defense. He Keeps his hands up and tight in front of his face. That works for him with the big gloves, but as shown in his fight with Werdum, does not work very well when he has the 4ozers on because they are not big enough to deflect a well placed jab.

3. People undersell Alistair's HW accomplishments. His big wins are Werdum, Duffie, Rogers, Buentello. He was also demolishing Cro Cop before he sent his testacles back from whence they came. Werdum is a legit top win, no matter how ugly it was. Rogers and Duffie, while not the fighters that people thought they were, would both be servicable UFC fighters. Buentello has faded hard since his fight with Alistair, but at the time had UFC skills as well. Cro Cop is a legend, and proved in the last year that he still had some game that made him UFC-level. It is true that Duffie/Rogers/Buentello/Hunt/Cro Cop are not world beaters, but is it really that much worse than Morris/OBrien/Stoijnic/Kongo/Rothwell/Big Nog? Because that was Cain's credentials when he fought Brock. In the end, you have to look at the competition and also what they have done with it. Cain dominated those guys. So has Overeem.

4. Finally, what does it mean to be worth the hype? If anything, Overeem is more worth the hype than most because it has been created outside of the traditional UFC machine. This guy's hype comes from his accomplishments in K-1 and the media he has done, espeically his documentary. Saying he is worth the hype to me is different than saying he is worthy of a title shot. Overeem got his hype the hard way, so to me he is worth it.


That said, I think he gets exposed against Lesnar for his bad striking defense in MMA and his size eventually making him gas. But it will be interesting because both him and Lesnar have the same defects.



Wow that's perfect!!!!!
BlueSkiesBurn
10/31/11 7:00:35PM

Posted by ncordless

I won't be able to call cause I'm gonna be taking my daughter trick or treating, but I do have a couple thoughts that you guys can bring up.

1. Alistair has always had mad skills. His problem at LHW was that he would gas badly after about 2 minutes. This has not been an issue since he allowed himself to beef up on horse meat. Generally, fighters at LHW have much better skills than HW fighters. Therefore, if Alistair has the skills he had at LHW without as much of the cardio problems, he should be and has shown to be a dangerous fight for most HWs.

2. People make a big deal out of his K-1 success, and while it is impressive, there are particular things about Alistair's technique in K-1 that do not translate well to MMA. Alistair's K-1 success is built upon his defense. He Keeps his hands up and tight in front of his face. That works for him with the big gloves, but as shown in his fight with Werdum, does not work very well when he has the 4ozers on because they are not big enough to deflect a well placed jab.

3. People undersell Alistair's HW accomplishments. His big wins are Werdum, Duffie, Rogers, Buentello. He was also demolishing Cro Cop before he sent his testacles back from whence they came. Werdum is a legit top win, no matter how ugly it was. Rogers and Duffie, while not the fighters that people thought they were, would both be servicable UFC fighters. Buentello has faded hard since his fight with Alistair, but at the time had UFC skills as well. Cro Cop is a legend, and proved in the last year that he still had some game that made him UFC-level. It is true that Duffie/Rogers/Buentello/Hunt/Cro Cop are not world beaters, but is it really that much worse than Morris/OBrien/Stoijnic/Kongo/Rothwell/Big Nog? Because that was Cain's credentials when he fought Brock. In the end, you have to look at the competition and also what they have done with it. Cain dominated those guys. So has Overeem.

4. Finally, what does it mean to be worth the hype? If anything, Overeem is more worth the hype than most because it has been created outside of the traditional UFC machine. This guy's hype comes from his accomplishments in K-1 and the media he has done, espeically his documentary. Saying he is worth the hype to me is different than saying he is worthy of a title shot. Overeem got his hype the hard way, so to me he is worth it.


That said, I think he gets exposed against Lesnar for his bad striking defense in MMA and his size eventually making him gas. But it will be interesting because both him and Lesnar have the same defects.



You're taking your daughter Trick Or Treating on Thursday, November 3rd at 3:30pm Pacific?
ncordless
10/31/11 7:05:38PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by ncordless

I won't be able to call cause I'm gonna be taking my daughter trick or treating, but I do have a couple thoughts that you guys can bring up.

1. Alistair has always had mad skills. His problem at LHW was that he would gas badly after about 2 minutes. This has not been an issue since he allowed himself to beef up on horse meat. Generally, fighters at LHW have much better skills than HW fighters. Therefore, if Alistair has the skills he had at LHW without as much of the cardio problems, he should be and has shown to be a dangerous fight for most HWs.

2. People make a big deal out of his K-1 success, and while it is impressive, there are particular things about Alistair's technique in K-1 that do not translate well to MMA. Alistair's K-1 success is built upon his defense. He Keeps his hands up and tight in front of his face. That works for him with the big gloves, but as shown in his fight with Werdum, does not work very well when he has the 4ozers on because they are not big enough to deflect a well placed jab.

3. People undersell Alistair's HW accomplishments. His big wins are Werdum, Duffie, Rogers, Buentello. He was also demolishing Cro Cop before he sent his testacles back from whence they came. Werdum is a legit top win, no matter how ugly it was. Rogers and Duffie, while not the fighters that people thought they were, would both be servicable UFC fighters. Buentello has faded hard since his fight with Alistair, but at the time had UFC skills as well. Cro Cop is a legend, and proved in the last year that he still had some game that made him UFC-level. It is true that Duffie/Rogers/Buentello/Hunt/Cro Cop are not world beaters, but is it really that much worse than Morris/OBrien/Stoijnic/Kongo/Rothwell/Big Nog? Because that was Cain's credentials when he fought Brock. In the end, you have to look at the competition and also what they have done with it. Cain dominated those guys. So has Overeem.

4. Finally, what does it mean to be worth the hype? If anything, Overeem is more worth the hype than most because it has been created outside of the traditional UFC machine. This guy's hype comes from his accomplishments in K-1 and the media he has done, espeically his documentary. Saying he is worth the hype to me is different than saying he is worthy of a title shot. Overeem got his hype the hard way, so to me he is worth it.


That said, I think he gets exposed against Lesnar for his bad striking defense in MMA and his size eventually making him gas. But it will be interesting because both him and Lesnar have the same defects.



You're taking your daughter Trick Or Treating on Thursday, November 3rd at 3:30pm Pacific?



Oh. . . my bad. I thought this was going down tonight. I will try and call in. I will just be getting out of Habeas Corpus and Civil Rights Litigation at 3:30, but will try and wrap it up quick and call in. If I get the call in by 5:30, will that work?
BlueSkiesBurn
10/31/11 7:15:07PM

Posted by ncordless


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by ncordless

I won't be able to call cause I'm gonna be taking my daughter trick or treating, but I do have a couple thoughts that you guys can bring up.

1. Alistair has always had mad skills. His problem at LHW was that he would gas badly after about 2 minutes. This has not been an issue since he allowed himself to beef up on horse meat. Generally, fighters at LHW have much better skills than HW fighters. Therefore, if Alistair has the skills he had at LHW without as much of the cardio problems, he should be and has shown to be a dangerous fight for most HWs.

2. People make a big deal out of his K-1 success, and while it is impressive, there are particular things about Alistair's technique in K-1 that do not translate well to MMA. Alistair's K-1 success is built upon his defense. He Keeps his hands up and tight in front of his face. That works for him with the big gloves, but as shown in his fight with Werdum, does not work very well when he has the 4ozers on because they are not big enough to deflect a well placed jab.

3. People undersell Alistair's HW accomplishments. His big wins are Werdum, Duffie, Rogers, Buentello. He was also demolishing Cro Cop before he sent his testacles back from whence they came. Werdum is a legit top win, no matter how ugly it was. Rogers and Duffie, while not the fighters that people thought they were, would both be servicable UFC fighters. Buentello has faded hard since his fight with Alistair, but at the time had UFC skills as well. Cro Cop is a legend, and proved in the last year that he still had some game that made him UFC-level. It is true that Duffie/Rogers/Buentello/Hunt/Cro Cop are not world beaters, but is it really that much worse than Morris/OBrien/Stoijnic/Kongo/Rothwell/Big Nog? Because that was Cain's credentials when he fought Brock. In the end, you have to look at the competition and also what they have done with it. Cain dominated those guys. So has Overeem.

4. Finally, what does it mean to be worth the hype? If anything, Overeem is more worth the hype than most because it has been created outside of the traditional UFC machine. This guy's hype comes from his accomplishments in K-1 and the media he has done, espeically his documentary. Saying he is worth the hype to me is different than saying he is worthy of a title shot. Overeem got his hype the hard way, so to me he is worth it.


That said, I think he gets exposed against Lesnar for his bad striking defense in MMA and his size eventually making him gas. But it will be interesting because both him and Lesnar have the same defects.



You're taking your daughter Trick Or Treating on Thursday, November 3rd at 3:30pm Pacific?



Oh. . . my bad. I thought this was going down tonight. I will try and call in. I will just be getting out of Habeas Corpus and Civil Rights Litigation at 3:30, but will try and wrap it up quick and call in. If I get the call in by 5:30, will that work?



5:30? haha, damn. You think we run a 4 hour podcast? We have a 2 hour block that we use. We don't/haven't used 2 hours yet and we don't want to, but if we have a good enough show, we may end up using that full 2 hours one day.

I'm going to make a thread.

It is always Thursday at 3:30/6:30pm PDT/EST.

jjeans
10/31/11 7:18:51PM
Ill be waiting from the start so get me in whenever (preferably earlier as the podcast will finish at 1:30am over here

Thanks again for the opportunity
BlueSkiesBurn
10/31/11 7:34:22PM

Posted by jjeans

Ill be waiting from the start so get me in whenever (preferably earlier as the podcast will finish at 1:30am over here

Thanks again for the opportunity



because you're in the UK, we will get to you sooner rather than later.
jjeans
10/31/11 8:05:47PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by jjeans

Ill be waiting from the start so get me in whenever (preferably earlier as the podcast will finish at 1:30am over here

Thanks again for the opportunity



because you're in the UK, we will get to you sooner rather than later.



Thanks
Kpro
10/31/11 8:09:50PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

You're taking your daughter Trick Or Treating on Thursday, November 3rd at 3:30pm Pacific?



That's how the Oregonians roll!
Pookie
10/31/11 8:20:27PM
Ill leave a reply since im not going to call in.

Overeem is as good as most hype him up to be. Though there will always be those who go overboard/undercut a fighters potential. The K-1 credentials still mean alot, but it doesnt mean he's the best striker in the sport. But he absolutely is a solid striker.

Overeem's ground game is still suspect against the Wrestle/defensive bjj guys like Cain who probably aren't going to get tapped easily, but he does have explosive submissions and can end it quick against bad grapplers(transitions and control).

But beyond the credentials and the skillsets, most of a fighters worth is shown in his fights against opponents. And relative to the division, i think he has what it takes to beat that mid-top ten tier. The Frank Mir's, Brock Lesnars, Shane Carwins. All of those guys i think get defeated handily.

Cain and Junior are better in my opinion though. If simply for the fact that their styles are perfectly suited for the division.
Kpro
10/31/11 8:28:22PM
He's worth the hype because this is what he taps after eating horse and shark meat.

KungFuMaster
10/31/11 10:39:17PM
What if we do not believe in the hype, can we call and express our arguments?
gartface
11/1/11 8:15:45AM

Posted by KungFuMaster

What if we do not believe in the hype, can we call and express our arguments?


Absolutely!
KungFuMaster
11/1/11 11:42:12AM

Posted by gartface


Posted by KungFuMaster

What if we do not believe in the hype, can we call and express our arguments?


Absolutely!



Excellent!
bigrand826
11/1/11 3:19:11PM

Posted by ncordless

I won't be able to call cause I'm gonna be taking my daughter trick or treating, but I do have a couple thoughts that you guys can bring up.

1. Alistair has always had mad skills. His problem at LHW was that he would gas badly after about 2 minutes. This has not been an issue since he allowed himself to beef up on horse meat. Generally, fighters at LHW have much better skills than HW fighters. Therefore, if Alistair has the skills he had at LHW without as much of the cardio problems, he should be and has shown to be a dangerous fight for most HWs.

2. People make a big deal out of his K-1 success, and while it is impressive, there are particular things about Alistair's technique in K-1 that do not translate well to MMA. Alistair's K-1 success is built upon his defense. He Keeps his hands up and tight in front of his face. That works for him with the big gloves, but as shown in his fight with Werdum, does not work very well when he has the 4ozers on because they are not big enough to deflect a well placed jab.

3. People undersell Alistair's HW accomplishments. His big wins are Werdum, Duffie, Rogers, Buentello. He was also demolishing Cro Cop before he sent his testacles back from whence they came. Werdum is a legit top win, no matter how ugly it was. Rogers and Duffie, while not the fighters that people thought they were, would both be servicable UFC fighters. Buentello has faded hard since his fight with Alistair, but at the time had UFC skills as well. Cro Cop is a legend, and proved in the last year that he still had some game that made him UFC-level. It is true that Duffie/Rogers/Buentello/Hunt/Cro Cop are not world beaters, but is it really that much worse than Morris/OBrien/Stoijnic/Kongo/Rothwell/Big Nog? Because that was Cain's credentials when he fought Brock. In the end, you have to look at the competition and also what they have done with it. Cain dominated those guys. So has Overeem.

4. Finally, what does it mean to be worth the hype? If anything, Overeem is more worth the hype than most because it has been created outside of the traditional UFC machine. This guy's hype comes from his accomplishments in K-1 and the media he has done, espeically his documentary. Saying he is worth the hype to me is different than saying he is worthy of a title shot. Overeem got his hype the hard way, so to me he is worth it.


That said, I think he gets exposed against Lesnar for his bad striking defense in MMA and his size eventually making him gas. But it will be interesting because both him and Lesnar have the same defects.



Damn, your point #2 is almost exactly what I've said many, many times. At least once even on these forums (certainly many times on ESPN before I came over here). This is the first time I've ever seen someone have that same opinion. I read that and almost thought I was reading one of my own posts. I'm an Overeem fan, but I think people do make too much of his K-1 World GP title. Remember, Bonjasky and Hari were not in that tournament. The best guy he fought was probably Aerts and he was coming off a brutal fight with Schilt.
prozacnation1978
11/1/11 7:38:07PM
I think he is over hyped.
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