Cantwell - bad sportsmanship?

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POLL: Cantwell - bad sportsmanship?
YES u shouldn't fell good about injuring someone 19% (20)
NO cantwell was referring to the great submission hold not the injury 14% (15)
NO break it!! break it off!! motherf**ker 10% (10)
SORT OF but the dude should of taped out 48% (50)
seeing people injured make me happy 1% (1)
sometimes i touch myself 9% (9)
mentalcase
12/11/08 2:16:01AM
OK I FOUND THIS ON SHERDOG FORUMS NOT FROM ME

I will remain neutral like switzerland

baba2008-
Anyone else think that was bad form from Cantwell? He showed great killer instinct and of course Al-Hassan should have tapped, but should Cantwell be happy about his opponent's injury?

“That's so sweet,” said Cantwell, “I've been waiting so long to do that. I can't believe this dude didn't tap sooner.”

That was poor sportsmanship to be happy about breaking his arm. Every fighter wants to win of course, but it didn't look good on Cantwell that he was delighted over injuring Al-Hassan.
It would have looked better if he had concern, not joy over the arm-breaking. Contrast this with Hill's broken leg and Dale Hartt staying by his side after the injury.

so i thought i might start a poll on it

link
ncordless
12/11/08 2:21:26AM
Poor choice of words, especially given the sportsmanship Dale Hartt showed earlier. However if an opponent doesn't tap then any injury he suffers is on his shoulders.

All in all this was definitely the most gruesome card of all-time with the graphic war injury shots, nasty limb snappings, and vicious KOs. I am kinda hoping all the soccer moms of the world didn't see it.
prozacnation1978
12/11/08 2:29:31AM
i don't mind seeing a arm break it was al hassan fault for not tapping
Wolfenstein
12/11/08 2:30:17AM
It's rare when a fighter actually breaks someone's arm before they tap out. It was pretty awesome and I think you can understand Cantwell's jubilance.

I don't think he was wrong to be psyched about the submission. I'm sure he hopes the guys okay. He has a broken arm. It's not like his career is over. So instead of hovering over his opponent consoling him, he was living in the moment of probably one of the best submissions he will ever have. Good for Steve. Now he has a signature highlight reel.
Rollins
12/11/08 2:42:25AM
^^ well said, you can't ask for much more than that in your career HL's

edit: just to be clear, I don't think he meant anything bad by it
mentalcase
12/11/08 2:58:17AM

Posted by Wolfenstein

It's rare when a fighter actually breaks someone's arm before they tap out. It was pretty awesome and I think you can understand Cantwell's jubilance.

I don't think he was wrong to be psyched about the submission. I'm sure he hopes the guys okay. He has a broken arm. It's not like his career is over. So instead of hovering over his opponent consoling him, he was living in the moment of probably one of the best submissions he will ever have. Good for Steve. Now he has a signature highlight reel.



I lied about remaining neutral cause

I'm a big fan of honesty and I'm so sick of bullshit
so i can appreciate it that the guy was just saying what he feels and not saying, something that would make him seem like some nice caring guy just to be more socially acceptable, this is fighting after all

also sorry for the poll i probably should have made better options the alcohol is just stating o were off about now

it sucks how you cant reset and redo the poll
ChokeUout
12/11/08 4:10:10AM
First off, yes..Raazak SHOULD have tapped...like 5 seconds before it broke I was screaming at the TV "TAP, YOU MORON, TAP!!!" It's Raazak's Fault his arm is broken because he didn't tap.

but C'MON! For Cantwell to jump up, make the snaping gesture with his hands and yell "YEAH, BROKE IT!" and literally be extremely proud of doing it was totally classless in My opinion. IT's part of the game if someone doesn't tap, but I bet you anything that if Thales Leites, Demain Maia, Minotauro, or any other Black Belt in BBJ who understands the fighting spirit and class that goes hand in hand with both BJJ and MMA broke someone's arm, you wouldn't see them get up and celebrating the fact they just snapped someone's arm in two. I don't think we'd hear Rousimar Pahlares or Jeremy Horn say "That's so Sweet, I've been wanting to do that to someone forever" in a post fight interview as his opponet sits in the octagon with an arm that's in two pieces.

Great submission, great night of fights, but a classless move by cantwell, and I expect this to be ammo for those old boxing dudes and the MMA critics to point fingers at.

Still, best Spike card I've seen in a long time...UFC 89 included
Drudinh
12/11/08 7:19:49AM

Posted by ChokeUout

First off, yes..Raazak SHOULD have tapped...like 5 seconds before it broke I was screaming at the TV "TAP, YOU MORON, TAP!!!" It's Raazak's Fault his arm is broken because he didn't tap.

but C'MON! For Cantwell to jump up, make the snaping gesture with his hands and yell "YEAH, BROKE IT!" and literally be extremely proud of doing it was totally classless in My opinion. IT's part of the game if someone doesn't tap, but I bet you anything that if Thales Leites, Demain Maia, Minotauro, or any other Black Belt in BBJ who understands the fighting spirit and class that goes hand in hand with both BJJ and MMA broke someone's arm, you wouldn't see them get up and celebrating the fact they just snapped someone's arm in two. I don't think we'd hear Rousimar Pahlares or Jeremy Horn say "That's so Sweet, I've been wanting to do that to someone forever" in a post fight interview as his opponet sits in the octagon with an arm that's in two pieces.

Great submission, great night of fights, but a classless move by cantwell, and I expect this to be ammo for those old boxing dudes and the MMA critics to point fingers at.

Still, best Spike card I've seen in a long time...UFC 89 included




My feelings of what happened are in your words
StevenSeagal
12/11/08 8:36:48AM
Does anyone have a pic of the break?
Aaronno9
12/11/08 8:48:15AM
It was more so bad sportsman ship from hassan imo. Nobody wants to go out and break somebody's arm. Hassan wasn't getting out of that sub and he put cantwell in the position where he had to snap the arm to get the win. I just cant believe he didn't tap.
cowcatcher
12/11/08 9:29:08AM
an armbar is designed to break an arm, hate to break it to those that didnt realize that. at first i was a little taken aback by cantwell doing what he did but that lasted about 5 seconds because the fact is that was textbook submission fighting, if the guy wont tap you keep pressure on the hold. also, the guy won his debut in the ufc, and did it in HL reel fashion and did what most fighters always talk about in the gym but dont get a chance to do. go into any BJJ, or mma training facility, or listen to any cornerman during a fight when a sub is applied and you will hear the words "break it", thats what these guys are taught and thats what they are supposed to do if their opponent doesnt tap, thats it.

hes a young kid and got caught up in the heat of the moment, dont look too hard for something to get in an internet uproar about.
scoozna
12/11/08 9:50:20AM
I'm double minded about this. Mostly I wish all the fighters had the attitude that Cantwell's words conveyed - like, I'll break your arm if you give me the chance.

All the trash talking *before* fights make it sound like they all have that attitude. And that's good. I'll let others comment on whether it's hype or whether each one of them really has that attitude during each of their fights.

What is said after a fight, I would hope, would be much different, much more gracious and considerate. But I gotta be realistic. They were just in a battle, the adrenaline is still pumping, they worked very hard for several weeks with great sacrifice to get through the fight.

So I don't fault the guys who do or say stupid stuff after a fight. But those that display a measure of grace and respect are certainly to be commended for pulling their thoughts and words together directly after a fight.
Franklinfan47
12/11/08 11:14:21AM
To my understanding, there was a bit of trash talking between them before the fight, so I think thats why he was acting that way. Honestly though, the guy just won his ufc debut is destructive fashion, who wouldn't be happy and over excited? Props to Al-Hassan for being tough, but dude should have tapped before his arm snapped like that.
wiggum
12/11/08 11:51:01AM

Posted by mentalcase


Posted by Wolfenstein

It's rare when a fighter actually breaks someone's arm before they tap out. It was pretty awesome and I think you can understand Cantwell's jubilance.

I don't think he was wrong to be psyched about the submission. I'm sure he hopes the guys okay. He has a broken arm. It's not like his career is over. So instead of hovering over his opponent consoling him, he was living in the moment of probably one of the best submissions he will ever have. Good for Steve. Now he has a signature highlight reel.



I lied about remaining neutral cause

I'm a big fan of honesty and I'm so sick of bullshit
so i can appreciate it that the guy was just saying what he feels and not saying, something that would make him seem like some nice caring guy just to be more socially acceptable, this is fighting after all

also sorry for the poll i probably should have made better options the alcohol is just stating o were off about now

it sucks how you cant reset and redo the poll



im with you guys....the dude should have tapped, but didnt.....it shows heart and stupidity at the same time in my book......cantwells words are justified, ufc debut, excitement, its understandable to be psyched up after something like that...first submision win i believe...and making an impressive debut is the ticket to sticking around and he probably knew it.....course at the same time, his words might have been misconstrued, so who knows if he was refering to the snap or just actually getting an armbar, cuz like i said, i think it was his first grappling win
breakdown5
12/11/08 12:02:46PM
I just think the guy was full of adrenaline after the fight. It's gotta be hard to string together a coherent explanation of the fight you were just in. I don't think he was being malicious or rubbing in the fact that he broke his arm. The dude shoulda tapped.
artofdefense
12/11/08 12:07:39PM
Anybody who grapples would be psyched to get a break on a sub. It's like a badge of honor.

We're not playing lady's volleyball here, no sympathy from me. WAR Cantwell, champ in 2010 !.

BTW, Hassan was showing some interesting TKD striking in there, but man his head was STIFF. Love to see him be a bit more dynamic with his striking, and I thought he knew JJ? Didn't look like it to me.
gsquat
12/11/08 3:11:26PM
Al-Hassan is a moron. He should have tapped. Lets see... I can make this simple tapping gesture with my hand, lose, and be in no pain with no major medical bills. Or I can not tap, lose, possibly never fight in mma again, have the possibility of having a serious problem with my arm for the rest of my life, and have constant medical bills.
copcopps
12/11/08 3:16:00PM
As much as I like Razak, I thought he should've tapped. Cantwell isn't a jerk because of what he said. I voted for sort of

but I think Dale Hartt's the guy that's the true sportsman
Pitbull09
12/11/08 5:19:43PM
I thought when he said it, it was kinda uncalled for. Loving pulling off an armbar and breaking a guys ares are two completely different things and it seemed bad but maybe he didnt mean breaking his arm.
EvenFlow
12/11/08 5:29:35PM

Posted by Aaronno9

It was more so bad sportsman ship from hassan imo. Nobody wants to go out and break somebody's arm. Hassan wasn't getting out of that sub and he put cantwell in the position where he had to snap the arm to get the win. I just cant believe he didn't tap.



I agree, I think that Cantwell was just excited to get a UFC win, and who wouldnt be? it was just unfortunate that he had to break Razak's arm. It's his own fault and I'm not going to expect every fighter to show pity to a man who refuses to tap, not tapping is asking for a broken limp or a nap. Sure it's not cool to be so happy about it but he might not have known how serious it was, he said in the interview "watch it dislocate" not "watch it break" so to me this isnt really too bad and is being blown out of proportion.
ThaAxeMurderer7
12/11/08 5:48:57PM
Sometimes I touch myself
Hendo67
12/11/08 6:46:36PM
The way i look at it is from both sides, sure he could be super amp'd on winning the fight, but he could also possibly be a complete jackass.

The snapping gestures he made after he won the fight made me think that he was a tool. I mean, it's not like he snapped it right away, Hassan basically snapped his own arm for being a moron and not tapping.
It honestly didn't seem like Cantwell even gave a shit about his opponent, unlike Dale earlier that night.

So, i can see him being excited...but c'mon, there's no need to rub it in on a microphone while your opponent can't even pick himself up off the mat.
There's a difference in saying it on a microphone and saying it when you get to the back, or keeping it in your head.
D0wnUnd6e6r
12/11/08 7:25:29PM
bottom line is this is the fight game. if you cant take it no more you tap, or if u cant physically tap you verbally tap. That's how you DON'T get your arm broken.
mentalcase
12/11/08 10:05:51PM
My original question for the poll was asking if the comment was bad sportsmanship not the fact that he broke his arm.

i blame the referee for the injury cause its his job to protect the fighters, big john mccarthy would not have let such injury happen and would have saved his arm by breaking up the fight regardless weather he taped or not.

just like in UFC 16 big john saved Kevin Jackson arm from Jerry Bohlander after a beautiful armbar from the bottom keven was not going to tap (this was his first fight after losing to frank shamrock by armbar in 16 seconds)
Kevin protested but his arm was clearly in danger
bls1919
12/11/08 10:11:20PM
This wouldn't even be brought up is this was Fedor breaking big Tim's arm would it.....? Dude should have tapped. Cantwell did nothing wrong IMO.
tooly236
12/11/08 10:51:39PM
I think he could of shown a little more class, but then again maybe they should do the interviews after the fighters have relaxed for a while. Half the time when Rogan is talking to them, the fighters are still fighting for air,.
AchillesHeel
12/12/08 11:35:08AM

Posted by bls1919

This wouldn't even be brought up is this was Fedor breaking big Tim's arm would it.....? Dude should have tapped. Cantwell did nothing wrong IMO.


I don't think it's the arm-bar that people are criticizing/questioning, it's the gloating afterward.
Jackelope
12/12/08 1:38:35PM
The arm break was fine. Cantwell did what he had to do, and Razzak didn't want to submit in his first big fight. Nothing wrong with that, IMO.

As for the comments afterward- Probably not the smartest thing to say, but he was excited, and who can blame him? These guys aren't going out there to play patty-cake. He gloated a bit about breaking his arm, sure, but it's not like he insulted the dude's family or was disrespectful in any other manner. I chalk it up to being young, being in the big stage, and being excited.
urbman
12/12/08 6:00:01PM
I think he did a nice job in winning the fight,but i'm not real big into people bragging about injuring someone .Although Razak should have definitely tapped out in that situation,what else did he think was going to happen.I'm pretty sure if the situation was reversed Razak would have done the same thing to Cantwell if he wouldn't tap.
kris_ericson
12/13/08 12:36:31AM

Posted by ThaAxeMurderer7

Sometimes I touch myself




me too

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