Campaign to get Couture on the Pound For Pound top 10 list

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Mayo
3/5/07 9:40:58AM
Come on guys, adjust your pound for pound rankings so that Couture can make it onto the list. Don't you think he deserves to be there? And what's with BJ Penn being at #7 ?!

Reply to this post and tell me what rank you give Couture on your own pound for pound list. I have him at #3.
madmarck
3/5/07 9:49:26AM
When Randy beat Cro Cop. He will be Top 3 on that list. Then when he beats werdum, Gonzaga he will be #1. Then when he beats arlovski and re-defeats Tim he will be solidified.
Mayo
3/5/07 10:05:47AM
Ok my friend, I think you and I will have to put a wager on Couture/CC when the time comes. I know that CC will most likely win, but a potential victory by Couture would be that much sweeter if I had bet on it. Don't you think that if Couture avoided the stand-up all together and tried to keep it on the ground the whole time then he could win? Just how good is CC on the ground?

And by the way, Couture will easily re-beat Tim and definitely beat Arlovski. And yes I'll put my money where my mouth is.
nate22
3/5/07 10:36:46AM

Posted by Mayo

Ok my friend, I think you and I will have to put a wager on Couture/CC when the time comes. I know that CC will most likely win, but a potential victory by Couture would be that much sweeter if I had bet on it. Don't you think that if Couture avoided the stand-up all together and tried to keep it on the ground the whole time then he could win? Just how good is CC on the ground?

:



Well can Couture take CC down? Yes, I think so without a doubt, yes CC has tight takedown defense, one of the best in the game but then again he's up against one of the best wrestlers in the game. Regardless of CC's previous performances against wrestlers and the fact his sprawl just keeps getting better and better, I don't think many will argue against Randy having the ability to take CC down on numerous occasions in the fight.

Can Randy finish the fight from this position? I doubt it, I don't see Randy submitting CC, we all know CC doesn't have the greatest ground game, but Randy's sub's are pretty sub par, however it's one of Randy's only options of finishing the fight so we might see a new gameplan for Randy when he get's it to the ground. CC's no pushover on the ground either and reminds me a little of Liddell with his capabilities of getting up to his feet when need be, he might be dominated on the ground in some aspects, but at the end of the day this is five rounds and Randy can't keep him there forever.

Can Randy not get knocked out for 5 rounds? Hopefully he won't make the same mistakes he did against Chuck and be tempted into the exchange with the better striker, he did the same against Tim and suceeded, but we saw how he lacked KO power, and let's be honest CC's striking is in an entireley different league to that of Tim's. 25 min's is a long time for Randy to hang with CC and I feel CC's takedown defense is too good to see a repeat performance of that against Sylvia.

All in all I see CC finishing the fight in the later rounds when he gets the chance, if Randy can find a way of taking CC down in the manner he did against Tim then i'm sure he could take the fight and win by decision.

Either way Randy's performance against Tim was out of this world, probably the most inspirational fight I have ever seen, i'd hate to see him go out to a LHK from CC...
waylon_o
3/5/07 10:43:20AM
I have Couture #9 on my p4p list.
Stickan
3/5/07 10:49:01AM
I'll never bet against Couture again. He cost me some pretty hefty e-bucks there.
I might pick against him but bet, no.

I have him in my p4p.
Mayo
3/5/07 10:53:41AM
Well said nate22
madmarck
3/5/07 11:17:11AM

Posted by Stickan

I'll never bet against Couture again. He cost me some pretty hefty e-bucks there.
I might pick against him but bet, no.

I have him in my p4p.


I was just exagertting. I will bet against him in the Cro Cop fight. Even if i want Randy to win.
Pyrenus
3/5/07 11:40:19AM
Good call. I will adjust by P4P ratings accordingly.
pv3Hpv3p
3/5/07 12:04:25PM
You can't deny it... I put him up at #6 on mine... I know he just beat Big TIm, but I still have trouble putting him over Chuck
madmarck
3/5/07 12:42:24PM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p

You can't deny it... I put him up at #6 on mine... I know he just beat Big TIm, but I still have trouble putting him over Chuck


Maybe b/c Chuck is a smaller and better fighter. Which would mean he is literally better by the pound. Thats how it works. Nobody seems to understand that.
Mayo
3/5/07 12:49:16PM

Posted by madmarck

Maybe b/c Chuck is a smaller and better fighter. Which would mean he is literally better by the pound. Thats how it works. Nobody seems to understand that.



I know. But then we should get Urijah Faber on there since at 140lbs he kicks some major ass
loller90278
3/5/07 1:08:34PM
one fight from him is not gonna make me put him in the p4p list.. if he gets thru crocop then i definatly will...
Mayo
3/5/07 1:15:18PM

Posted by loller90278

one fight from him is not gonna make me put him in the p4p list.. if he gets thru crocop then i definatly will...



Randy has been champion 5 times at two different weight classes!!! To me that's a pound for pound stat. What has BJ Penn done to deserve #7
loller90278
3/5/07 1:19:40PM
because its pound for pound currently.. if we were playing that game, i would put royce gracie in there too but im not because he can no longer dominate..

and randy DID beat an injured sylvia...
Mayo
3/5/07 1:31:20PM
Good point. I forgot Sylvia was injured lol !
pv3Hpv3p
3/5/07 2:20:31PM

Posted by loller90278

one fight from him is not gonna make me put him in the p4p list.. if he gets thru crocop then i definatly will...



Randy has fought and beaten the best in the past, and showed that he can still do it now, c/mon man, it's not like this was his first fight...

Royce is a bad example. Although he won in the past, he hasn't beaten top competition since the MMA world really had an idea what top competition was...

Randy stepped up (not just figurativley but literally) and did something that no one thought that he could, he dominated a much bigger man in all aspect of the game...

Isn't that what p4p is all about? We're talking about a 40lbs wieght difference... That's like Hermes Franca fighting Rich Franklin...

What more do you want from the guy?
hippysmacker
3/5/07 5:17:29PM
I put him 9th on the list for now.
Buddharox
3/5/07 7:03:12PM

Posted by Mayo


Posted by loller90278

one fight from him is not gonna make me put him in the p4p list.. if he gets thru crocop then i definatly will...



Randy has been champion 5 times at two different weight classes!!! To me that's a pound for pound stat. What has BJ Penn done to deserve #7



Well, BJ fought at LW for a while, and then moved up to fight at 170 and won the belt there. He's a smaller guy than almost all the WW guys, and kicks ass. He also fought Machida at MW (I think), and looked like a marshmellow.

When a smaller guy moves up in weight and kicks ass, they usually make p4p lists. Kid is a natural 140lb guy but dominates at 155, and he of course tops lots of p4p lists.
madmarck
3/5/07 7:09:19PM
If Randy gets into p4p and pushes out BJ or Kid Yamamoto........... im gonna punch the first random person i see. Preferably stupid looking. Maybe ill throw a flying knee in honour of Norifumi .
migo
3/5/07 9:27:29PM
He doesn't deserve to be on it. There are 10 fighters in their respective weight classes that are better.

With 5 weight classes, the top 10 pound for pound guys will be the top 2 in each weight class.

At heavyweight Mirko and Fedor are both definitely better. Nogueira and Barnett are also arguably better. If you look at the records, despite Randy's accomplishment of beating Tim, with a 15-8 record it doesn't rank him above guys who have records twice as good as his and much more consistently beat top competition.

At light heavyweight he was large, lost to Liddell and beat Belfort who Overeem beat twice, once in a much more impressive fashion and Henderson also beat (who is a middleweight naturally) and guys like Shogun have been far more accomplished.

BJ Penn deserves to be on any P4P list because he's a natural LW who is the best at that category and is one of the top 3 at WW and has done better than a top 3 MW did at HW.

There are easily 10 guys who deserve to be on that list before Couture.
hippysmacker
3/5/07 10:06:11PM
Moving this to MMA lounge. All these pound for pound dicussions should be kept there.
thanks
ADMIN
Stickan
3/6/07 2:43:56AM

Posted by madmarck

If Randy gets into p4p and pushes out BJ or Kid Yamamoto........... im gonna punch the first random person i see. Preferably stupid looking. Maybe ill throw a flying knee in honour of Norifumi .



Please do. Randy pushed out Kid from my 10th spot. Who has Kid ever beaten? As I mentioned in another thread, he hasn't beaten a single top 10 fighter.
migo
3/6/07 3:18:01AM
Who has Randy lost to? He got beaten by Inoue and Overeem, both have very unimpressive records and wouldn't be on anyone's top 20 list.
Stickan
3/6/07 4:34:08AM
inoue 9 years ago and valetijn 6. That's like saying Wanderlei Silva sucks because he lost to a nobody in Artur Mariano 10 years ago.

To get back on topic. List of at the time top 10s Couture has beaten:
Vitor Belfort
Mo Smith
Kevin Randleman
Pedro Rizzo
Chuck Liddell
Tito Ortiz
Tim Sylvia

List of at the time top 10s KID has beaten:
Genki Sudo (for those who actually considered him top10 at the time)
Caol Uno
migo
3/6/07 6:07:00AM
Genki Sudo and Caol Uno both have more skill than Sylvia, and had a size advantage.

Sylvia had a size advantage but no skill advantage and Couture still only decisioned him.

The last guy Couture beat who was larger than him was back in UFC 13.

Couture beat MVA who hates being hit so isn't well suited to MMA. He beat Vitor Belfort who also lost to Alistair Overeem (2x), Dan Henderson (lower weight class). He beat Chuck when Chuck was training with Dana White instead of Hackleman and Chuck avenged that loss. He beat Tito, again by decision, barely grinding it out. All of those guys were his size, not bigger than him. Yamamoto's a guy who could easily fight in the 135lbs divison (right now only populated by women) and owns top guys at 155lbs who cut down.

Couture fought 2 unskilled larger fighters, 1 semi-skilled larger fighter and 2 skilled larger fighters. The 2 skilled larger fighters he faced beat him. The 2 skilled larger fighters Yamamoto faced lost to him. If you pair Yamamoto up in his weight class he'd be beating the top-10 Women in more impressive fashion than Couture finished any of his opponents.
JimiMak
3/6/07 5:18:34PM
I've got him at 6. He's proven he can fight at a championship level in different weight classes. That's more than a lot of ppl on that list. He may just be a natural heavywieght to the point, if he fought chuck at hvy (especially considering his better mindset) we might see a replay of the first time. He's got a better chance against CroCop than a lot of ppl are saying, and if he wins everyone will want to see him and Fedor for greatest ever.
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