Would Bruce even stand a chance?
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Would Bruce even stand a chance?
nubby
7/3/07 1:14:13PM
Posted by pv3Hpv3p
Posted by grappler0000
Can anyone here actually name 5 people that had their asses handed to them by Lee...without the help of the internet?
Can you name 5 people that had their asses handed to them by Helio Gracie or Masahiko Kimura??? With out the help of the internet?
Exactly, just because you can't name them doesn't mean it didn't happen. And according to Chuck Norris, who was a close personal friend of Lee's, he did in fact witness real fights. Now, his opponents would most likely have been single discipline fighters but the question remains, Lee was known to have studied kick boxing, boxing, judo, kung fu; would it have been enough to allow him to win in the MMA?
AchillesHeel
7/3/07 3:07:58PM
Ah, that age-old Bruce Lee debate...
*stretches neck, flexes shoulders*
From Wikipedia:
"There is no mystery about my style. My movements are simple, direct and non-classical. The extraordinary part of it lies in its simplicity. Every movement in Jeet Kune-Do is being so of itself. There is nothing artificial about it. I always believe that the easy way is the right way. Jeet Kune-Do is simply the direct expression of one's feelings with the minimum of movements and energy."
The "Principles of Jeet Kun Do" (from Wikipedia) map almost perfectly onto contemporary MMA:
1. Be Like Water. Flexibility and adaptability, physically and mentally, in training and in execution.
2. Economy of Motion. Meet an attack with an attack. Simultaneous avoidance and counter-striking. No high kicks.
3. The Four Ranges of Combat: Kicking, Punching, Trapping, and Grappling (yes, grappling).
4. Five Methods of Attack. This is where Bruce starts to lose a flabby gwailo like myself. Essentially, I think he's talking about various broad strategies. For example, using one attack to set up a second ("low then high"); attacking with combinations ("punches in bunches"); maneuver, positioning, and angles. Sound familiar?
5. Three Properties (of effective martial arts): Efficiency, Directness, Simplicity.
6. Centerline. Controlling your own balance while disrupting your opponent's. Also control of the fighting space.
Bear in mind that Lee wasn't a big guy. IMDb lists him at 5'7" (Wikipedia doesn't show his height). On film, he appeared to be a medium-to-tall Asian, although his movies were probably intended to make him look heroic, either surrounded by shorter guys or fighting someone who was clearly larger than he was. Anyway, if Bruce were brought forward through time and put into the Octagon today, he would likely fight as a Lightweight.
His weaknesses, in MMA: Pretty obvious, really. His sprawl and submission defense would probably be sub-par, at least at the beginning. Good wrestlers would be a big challenge, as they are for many people, and he might or might not recognize an arm-bar or triangle choke before it's too late.
That said, I think he would handle ground-and-pound from his back alright. He would fight very defensively from his back, much like Wanderlei Silva does, trying to avoid taking any big shots and looking to sweep and stand up. Lee would bring the fight back to a standing position as soon as he could, so a jiu-jitsu fighter would have to get (and keep) top position in order to secure a submission hold. I could see him getting caught in a quick submission, or losing a Decision to a good GnP wrestler, like Sean Sherk.
His strengths, in MMA: His hands and feet would be extremely fast, and he would use them both extremely well. He would have Takanori Gomi's power, Melvin Guillard's speed, and Anderson Silva's precision. Look back at GSP's win over Matt Hughes and you'll see the effectiveness of a four-point, up-and-down striking game against a good grappler. Lee's counter-punching would be legendary, and anyone engaging him in a stand-up battle would essentially be committing suicide.
His cardio would be good, possibly excellent, and since there's no way to know about his chin, we have to assume it would be average.
Lee's takedown defense in the clinch would actually be okay. His first martial art was Wing Chun - more from Wikipedia...
"Chi Sao [is the] Term for the principle[...] of automatic reflexes upon contact and the idea of 'sticking' to the opponent. In Wing Chun this is practiced through two practitioners[...] training each other to sense changes in body mechanics, pressure, momentum and 'feel.' This increased sensitivity gained from this drill helps a practitioner attack and counter an opponent's movements precisely, quickly and with the appropriate technique.
"[...]Chi Sao is also taught in the Jeet Kune Do traditions, and uses modified versions of some of the component techniques such as the bong sao and jut sao.
"[...]MMA in the clinch is a fine example of where Chi Sao can be expressed as well as used in other arts."
On the ground, Lee might not recognize a submission attempt as quickly as an experienced BJJ guy, but his ability to twist, roll and slip out would be good, possibly great.
He was also very bright, and would learn MMA techniques very quickly. If you let him watch a couple of UFC events before throwing him in the cage, I bet he'd already have a better sprawl and Thai clinch than most guys in an average MMA gym. Give him the same 3 months to train that you'd give anyone, and I think Bruce would be a handful for any Lightweight or Welterweight alive today.
*stretches neck, flexes shoulders*
From Wikipedia:
"There is no mystery about my style. My movements are simple, direct and non-classical. The extraordinary part of it lies in its simplicity. Every movement in Jeet Kune-Do is being so of itself. There is nothing artificial about it. I always believe that the easy way is the right way. Jeet Kune-Do is simply the direct expression of one's feelings with the minimum of movements and energy."
The "Principles of Jeet Kun Do" (from Wikipedia) map almost perfectly onto contemporary MMA:
1. Be Like Water. Flexibility and adaptability, physically and mentally, in training and in execution.
2. Economy of Motion. Meet an attack with an attack. Simultaneous avoidance and counter-striking. No high kicks.
3. The Four Ranges of Combat: Kicking, Punching, Trapping, and Grappling (yes, grappling).
4. Five Methods of Attack. This is where Bruce starts to lose a flabby gwailo like myself. Essentially, I think he's talking about various broad strategies. For example, using one attack to set up a second ("low then high"); attacking with combinations ("punches in bunches"); maneuver, positioning, and angles. Sound familiar?
5. Three Properties (of effective martial arts): Efficiency, Directness, Simplicity.
6. Centerline. Controlling your own balance while disrupting your opponent's. Also control of the fighting space.
Bear in mind that Lee wasn't a big guy. IMDb lists him at 5'7" (Wikipedia doesn't show his height). On film, he appeared to be a medium-to-tall Asian, although his movies were probably intended to make him look heroic, either surrounded by shorter guys or fighting someone who was clearly larger than he was. Anyway, if Bruce were brought forward through time and put into the Octagon today, he would likely fight as a Lightweight.
His weaknesses, in MMA: Pretty obvious, really. His sprawl and submission defense would probably be sub-par, at least at the beginning. Good wrestlers would be a big challenge, as they are for many people, and he might or might not recognize an arm-bar or triangle choke before it's too late.
That said, I think he would handle ground-and-pound from his back alright. He would fight very defensively from his back, much like Wanderlei Silva does, trying to avoid taking any big shots and looking to sweep and stand up. Lee would bring the fight back to a standing position as soon as he could, so a jiu-jitsu fighter would have to get (and keep) top position in order to secure a submission hold. I could see him getting caught in a quick submission, or losing a Decision to a good GnP wrestler, like Sean Sherk.
His strengths, in MMA: His hands and feet would be extremely fast, and he would use them both extremely well. He would have Takanori Gomi's power, Melvin Guillard's speed, and Anderson Silva's precision. Look back at GSP's win over Matt Hughes and you'll see the effectiveness of a four-point, up-and-down striking game against a good grappler. Lee's counter-punching would be legendary, and anyone engaging him in a stand-up battle would essentially be committing suicide.
His cardio would be good, possibly excellent, and since there's no way to know about his chin, we have to assume it would be average.
Lee's takedown defense in the clinch would actually be okay. His first martial art was Wing Chun - more from Wikipedia...
"Chi Sao [is the] Term for the principle[...] of automatic reflexes upon contact and the idea of 'sticking' to the opponent. In Wing Chun this is practiced through two practitioners[...] training each other to sense changes in body mechanics, pressure, momentum and 'feel.' This increased sensitivity gained from this drill helps a practitioner attack and counter an opponent's movements precisely, quickly and with the appropriate technique.
"[...]Chi Sao is also taught in the Jeet Kune Do traditions, and uses modified versions of some of the component techniques such as the bong sao and jut sao.
"[...]MMA in the clinch is a fine example of where Chi Sao can be expressed as well as used in other arts."
On the ground, Lee might not recognize a submission attempt as quickly as an experienced BJJ guy, but his ability to twist, roll and slip out would be good, possibly great.
He was also very bright, and would learn MMA techniques very quickly. If you let him watch a couple of UFC events before throwing him in the cage, I bet he'd already have a better sprawl and Thai clinch than most guys in an average MMA gym. Give him the same 3 months to train that you'd give anyone, and I think Bruce would be a handful for any Lightweight or Welterweight alive today.
grappler0000
7/3/07 11:29:51PM
Posted by pv3Hpv3p
Posted by grappler0000
Can anyone here actually name 5 people that had their asses handed to them by Lee...without the help of the internet?
Can you name 5 people that had their asses handed to them by Helio Gracie or Masahiko Kimura??? With out the help of the internet?
What you are forgetting is that Gracie JJ is alive and well in MMA today and plays a very important part of the sport. There are a long list of accomplished fighters in MMA that have trained under him, or one of his students, or one of his students' students. I don't see any students of Lee in MMA or any practitioners of JKD at all for that matter...JKD went the way of the dinosaur in the early UFC days, along with Joe Son Do.
grappler0000
7/3/07 11:40:12PM
Posted by nubby
Posted by pv3Hpv3p
Posted by grappler0000
Can anyone here actually name 5 people that had their asses handed to them by Lee...without the help of the internet?
Can you name 5 people that had their asses handed to them by Helio Gracie or Masahiko Kimura??? With out the help of the internet?
Exactly, just because you can't name them doesn't mean it didn't happen. And according to Chuck Norris, who was a close personal friend of Lee's, he did in fact witness real fights. Now, his opponents would most likely have been single discipline fighters but the question remains, Lee was known to have studied kick boxing, boxing, judo, kung fu; would it have been enough to allow him to win in the MMA?
My point was that the Legend of Bruce Lee is much more dynamic than Lee as a fighter actually was. People speak of him as if he were Superman. Yes, he is a legeng in MA...and he is a pioneer of MMA. I guess my comparison is that Wilt Chamberlain was a dominant basketball player in his time, but you'd be a fool to think he was a better player than someone like Jordan or LeBron, just because he dominated a bunch of nobody's in his time. The MMA of today is much more refined than JKD is.
ko-kbo130
7/3/07 11:44:08PM
Posted by grappler0000
Posted by nubby
Posted by pv3Hpv3p
Posted by grappler0000
Can anyone here actually name 5 people that had their asses handed to them by Lee...without the help of the internet?
Can you name 5 people that had their asses handed to them by Helio Gracie or Masahiko Kimura??? With out the help of the internet?
Exactly, just because you can't name them doesn't mean it didn't happen. And according to Chuck Norris, who was a close personal friend of Lee's, he did in fact witness real fights. Now, his opponents would most likely have been single discipline fighters but the question remains, Lee was known to have studied kick boxing, boxing, judo, kung fu; would it have been enough to allow him to win in the MMA?
My point was that the Legend of Bruce Lee is much more dynamic than Lee as a fighter actually was. People speak of him as if he were Superman. Yes, he is a legeng in MA...and he is a pioneer of MMA. I guess my comparison is that Wilt Chamberlain was a dominant basketball player in his time, but you'd be a fool to think he was a better player than someone like Jordan or LeBron, just because he dominated a bunch of nobody's in his time. The MMA of today is much more refined than JKD is.
wilt would still be a dominat force in the nba today. as would lee in mma. a legend can play in any era. are you gunna tell me the babe couldnt hang with todays ball players? lee is a a legend amd pioneer. his speed, strength and acruracy has never been matched by anyone. this arguement is pointless because it will never be proven.
Fanboy 1988
7/4/07 1:32:51AM
Did Bruce ever fight a top guy for his time? If so, is there any videos of it?
Not trying to bash Bruce, but how can we determine how he would do in the UFC if there's no actual data of him fighting... There's no question that Bruce was in good shape, fast and strong. But what we don't know is if Bruce could take a punch, or even how he would act in that kinda situation..
He wanted to show his style throw movies instead of fights, which is what makes alot of people question him if he could really hold his own against a skilled fighter...
Not trying to bash Bruce, but how can we determine how he would do in the UFC if there's no actual data of him fighting... There's no question that Bruce was in good shape, fast and strong. But what we don't know is if Bruce could take a punch, or even how he would act in that kinda situation..
He wanted to show his style throw movies instead of fights, which is what makes alot of people question him if he could really hold his own against a skilled fighter...
richieb19
7/4/07 1:47:12AM
This has to be one of the stupidest threads I've ever read...
First of all, Bruce Lee died in 1973, long before fighters where blending grappling techniques with striking techniques (which is basically the overall evolution of MMA in a nutshell). The man had incredible skills, and most importantly should be admired by any MMA fan, as his style of martial art was no style at all, Jeet Kune Do is nothing more than a philosophy in which a person should not limit himself, and to use any and every technique that works. Would Lee have been a good grappler? The answer is obviously yes, as he was naturally gifted and devoted his life to training and improving his self. I just wish some of you would drop your BJJ/MT stereotypes, unlatch yourselves from the idea's that certain fighters are invincible and others are cans, and truly see what the sport is, and what people like Bruce Lee have indirectly done to it.
First of all, Bruce Lee died in 1973, long before fighters where blending grappling techniques with striking techniques (which is basically the overall evolution of MMA in a nutshell). The man had incredible skills, and most importantly should be admired by any MMA fan, as his style of martial art was no style at all, Jeet Kune Do is nothing more than a philosophy in which a person should not limit himself, and to use any and every technique that works. Would Lee have been a good grappler? The answer is obviously yes, as he was naturally gifted and devoted his life to training and improving his self. I just wish some of you would drop your BJJ/MT stereotypes, unlatch yourselves from the idea's that certain fighters are invincible and others are cans, and truly see what the sport is, and what people like Bruce Lee have indirectly done to it.
danny81
7/4/07 2:29:10AM
Brucce would get beat by most in MMA because they would just take him down. now most people are saying that he would just hop around and strike and would KO everyone. now these are the same people thay say that a boxer cant beat and MMA practitionar because all they have to do is take him down. now an elite boxer like mohammad Ali has better footwork than bruce. so are you saying that boxers to could do well in MMA or that lee would be beat?
grappler0000
7/4/07 6:36:43AM
Posted by ko-kbo130
wilt would still be a dominat force in the nba today. as would lee in mma. a legend can play in any era. are you gunna tell me the babe couldnt hang with todays ball players? lee is a a legend amd pioneer. his speed, strength and acruracy has never been matched by anyone. this arguement is pointless because it will never be proven.
First of all, Wilt would not still be a force in the NBA. You are only as good as your best competition...and that's my point. Yes, Wilt stood alone as the master of his craft amongst a bunch of nobody's. You can say the same for Lee...not trying to discredit him, because he was in fact ahead of his time, but he is not up to contemporary standards. Had Lee been alive today, he would obviously be evolving JKD beyond anything he had done at that time...but that's not the question.
If nobody can list some worthy opponents that Bruce beat...or tell me someone who has been successful while utilizing his style, it's obvious that everyone is fixated on his legendary status, rather than his actual fighting ability. What is the basis for the opposing argument. Please, someone show me that JKD is a superior refinement than what we know as MMA today. The mere fact that he is a legend or a pioneer is a moot point for this argument. If you try to argue that JKD > MMA, then you would also must believe in reverse evolution.
AchillesHeel
7/4/07 10:51:57AM
Posted by Fanboy 1988
Not trying to bash Bruce, but how can we determine how he would do in the UFC if there's no actual data of him fighting...
We can look at his fighting style(s) and speculate.
Posted by Fanboy 1988
There's no question that Bruce was in good shape, fast and strong. But what we don't know is if Bruce could take a punch, or even how he would act in that kinda situation...
Right. So what does that tell us? More than "nothing."
Posted by danny81
Brucce would get beat by most in MMA because they would just take him down. now most people are saying that he would just hop around and strike and would KO everyone.
Yes, Lee's takedown defense would be a weakness, but we can only speculate how much of one. And by "speculate" I don't mean "guess wildly" - we can make educated guesses. Anyway, does a single obvious weakness mean that a fighter isn't competitive? Is there such a thing as a perfect fighter? Besides Fedor, I mean. Bruce Lee would have better takedown defense from the jump than Mark Hunt, for example.
Posted by danny81
now these are the same people thay say that a boxer cant beat and MMA practitionar because all they have to do is take him down. now an elite boxer like mohammad Ali has better footwork than bruce. so are you saying that boxers to could do well in MMA or that lee would be beat?
If you want to talk about boxers generally, Muhammad Ali isn't a good example.
Posted by grappler0000
[...]it's obvious that everyone is fixated on his legendary status, rather than his actual fighting ability.
You mean "everyone except AchillesHeel", right?
Posted by grappler0000
Please, someone show me that JKD is a superior refinement than what we know as MMA today. The mere fact that he is a legend or a pioneer is a moot point for this argument. If you try to argue that JKD > MMA, then you would also must believe in reverse evolution.
Right, Jeet Kun Do isn't superior to contemporary MMA training for MMA fighting. It can be looked at as "proto-MMA", imho. It's other things too, such as weapons training, and just as MMA fighters don't practice JKD, JKD practitioners don't compete in MMA (rather, none that I'm aware of). It's entirely possible that Bruce Lee today would say "Why would I compete in MMA?", and look at us like we all had two heads.
Would JKD expertise mean excellence in MMA without any MMA training? No, probably not. Still, I think it's clear that JKD would translate fairly well to MMA. A non-MMA-trained JKD practitioner would probably fare better than a non-MMA-trained boxer or judoka, much better than a tae kwon do or karate practitioner, and maybe about as well as a wrester, muay thai fighter or jiu-jitsu fighter (again, all without any MMA training).
I still believe that Bruce Lee really was that good at JKD, and if he was awesome at "proto-MMA" then he would probably be okay-to-good at MMA. My guess is that he'd obliterate guys at small shows and could step right into a Pride ring or UFC Octagon without embarrassing himself terribly.
So my answer to the question in the thread title is "Yes, absolutely."
nWo
7/4/07 7:00:05PM
BRUCE LEE NEVER FOUGHT ANYONE
HE WAS AN ACTOR
BORN IN CALI
HE WAS IN MOVIES
HE HAD 1 Junior College boxing match
HE WEIGHED A WHOPPING 135
STANDING A GIGANTIC 5'5
HE MADE MOVIES THAT IS ALL!
HE WAS AN ACTOR
BORN IN CALI
HE WAS IN MOVIES
HE HAD 1 Junior College boxing match
HE WEIGHED A WHOPPING 135
STANDING A GIGANTIC 5'5
HE MADE MOVIES THAT IS ALL!
ko-kbo130
7/4/07 11:49:10PM
Posted by nWo
BRUCE LEE NEVER FOUGHT ANYONE
HE WAS AN ACTOR
BORN IN CALI
HE WAS IN MOVIES
HE HAD 1 Junior College boxing match
HE WEIGHED A WHOPPING 135
STANDING A GIGANTIC 5'5
HE MADE MOVIES THAT IS ALL!
you are a true moron. he may of weighed 135 but he was one of the most powerfull and quickest people ever. he was stronger than most 200+lb men. the amount of speed and power he could generate was insane. im sorry but you have know idea what you are talking about.
cmill21
7/5/07 12:14:55AM
I can't believe some of the "opinions" in this thread. First of all you all think BJ's naturally talented? Look at a man who was more telented the BJ, and any other mma practitioner that's naturally gifted. Download the movie of the 1 inch punch. In 2004, UFC president Dana White credited Bruce Lee as the "father of mixed martial arts". You consider Chuck Norris "nobody"? Oh and for the record Lee weighed in at 165lbs and thats accroding to Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Lee
phvcx_1337
7/5/07 1:14:33AM
Bruce did have ground game just because he didn't do bjj doesn't mean he didn't have a ground game he actually was very well versed standing and on ground because his whole style was to act like water and flow with whatever your opponent wants then put them in a favorable position for you.
Ultimate_fighter
7/5/07 1:32:27AM
Posted by pv3Hpv3p
I guess Bruce Lee as he was, wouldn't stand a chance agaisnt most MMA fighters... But I'd think that if Lee was to compete in MMA, then he would've developed a more well rounded game... I imagine him kinda like a smaller version of Cung Le, if that's a fair comparison
yes, for sure... he would stand a chance if he learned other martial arts..
nWo
7/5/07 2:13:52AM
Posted by nWo
BRUCE LEE NEVER FOUGHT ANYONE
HE WAS AN ACTOR
BORN IN CALI
HE WAS IN MOVIES
HE HAD 1 Junior College boxing match
HE WEIGHED A WHOPPING 135
STANDING A GIGANTIC 5'5
HE MADE MOVIES THAT IS ALL!
HE WAS JUST AN ACTOR
DO YOU THINK JETY LI WOULD DO ANY GOOD OR HOW ABOUT UMA THURMAN?
SHE IS TRAINED RIGHT?
wrong
SHE IS AN ACTOR
THATS ALL
MAKE MOVIES NOT FIGHT
YOU ARE THE FOOL
ko-kbo130
7/5/07 1:14:25PM
Posted by nWo
Posted by nWo
BRUCE LEE NEVER FOUGHT ANYONE
HE WAS AN ACTOR
BORN IN CALI
HE WAS IN MOVIES
HE HAD 1 Junior College boxing match
HE WEIGHED A WHOPPING 135
STANDING A GIGANTIC 5'5
HE MADE MOVIES THAT IS ALL!
HE WAS JUST AN ACTOR
DO YOU THINK JETY LI WOULD DO ANY GOOD OR HOW ABOUT UMA THURMAN?
SHE IS TRAINED RIGHT?
wrong
SHE IS AN ACTOR
THATS ALL
MAKE MOVIES NOT FIGHT
YOU ARE THE FOOL
Joe Lewis - "Bruce was incredibly strong for his size. He could take a 75lb barbell and from a standing position with the barbell held flush against his chest, he could slowly stick his arms out, lock them and hold the barbell there for 20 seconds, that's pretty damn tough for a guy who at the time only weighed 138lbs. I know 200lb weight lifters who can't do that."
Danny Inosanto - "Bruce had tremendous strength in holding a weight out horizontally in a standing position. I know because I've seen it. He'd take a 125lb barbell and hold it straight out".
well there goes your theory that he was to small
"1958 is also notable as the year when Bruce defeated reigning three year champion, Gary Elms, in the Hong Kong Boxing Championships."
well he wasnt just an actor he did fight too.
for all of you who think he would be takin down easily:
Jesse Glover - "The power that Lee was capable of instantly generating was absolutely frightening to his fellow martial artists, especially his sparring partners, and his speed was equally intimidating. We timed him with an electric timer once, and Bruce's quickest movements were around five hundredths of a second, his slowest were around eight hundredths. This was punching from a relaxed position with his hands down at his sides from a distance between 18-24 inches. Not only was he amazingly quick, but he could read you too. He could pick up on small subtle things that you were getting ready to do and then he'd just shut you down".J
Manfred
7/5/07 1:55:52PM
Bruce Lee was such a student of the martial arts, that if he was alive today, he would be training in MMA and with he reach (6 footer arms) and athleticism, he'd probably do well
nWo
7/5/07 5:19:12PM
Posted by ko-kbo130
Posted by nWo
Posted by nWo
BRUCE LEE NEVER FOUGHT ANYONE
HE WAS AN ACTOR
BORN IN CALI
HE WAS IN MOVIES
HE HAD 1 Junior College boxing match
HE WEIGHED A WHOPPING 135
STANDING A GIGANTIC 5'5
HE MADE MOVIES THAT IS ALL!
HE WAS JUST AN ACTOR
DO YOU THINK JETY LI WOULD DO ANY GOOD OR HOW ABOUT UMA THURMAN?
SHE IS TRAINED RIGHT?
wrong
SHE IS AN ACTOR
THATS ALL
MAKE MOVIES NOT FIGHT
YOU ARE THE FOOL
Joe Lewis - "Bruce was incredibly strong for his size. He could take a 75lb barbell and from a standing position with the barbell held flush against his chest, he could slowly stick his arms out, lock them and hold the barbell there for 20 seconds, that's pretty damn tough for a guy who at the time only weighed 138lbs. I know 200lb weight lifters who can't do that."
Danny Inosanto - "Bruce had tremendous strength in holding a weight out horizontally in a standing position. I know because I've seen it. He'd take a 125lb barbell and hold it straight out".
well there goes your theory that he was to small
"1958 is also notable as the year when Bruce defeated reigning three year champion, Gary Elms, in the Hong Kong Boxing Championships."
well he wasnt just an actor he did fight too.
for all of you who think he would be takin down easily:
Jesse Glover - "The power that Lee was capable of instantly generating was absolutely frightening to his fellow martial artists, especially his sparring partners, and his speed was equally intimidating. We timed him with an electric timer once, and Bruce's quickest movements were around five hundredths of a second, his slowest were around eight hundredths. This was punching from a relaxed position with his hands down at his sides from a distance between 18-24 inches. Not only was he amazingly quick, but he could read you too. He could pick up on small subtle things that you were getting ready to do and then he'd just shut you down".J
1958 (Age 18): Bruce enters the 1958 Boxing Championships and defeats the reigning three year champion Gary Elms. 1959 (Age 19):
that would the junior college BOXING MATCH(not mma/ or even karate)
we all know how well boxers do in MMA
nubby
7/5/07 5:39:32PM
Posted by nWo
Posted by ko-kbo130
Posted by nWo
Posted by nWo
BRUCE LEE NEVER FOUGHT ANYONE
HE WAS AN ACTOR
BORN IN CALI
HE WAS IN MOVIES
HE HAD 1 Junior College boxing match
HE WEIGHED A WHOPPING 135
STANDING A GIGANTIC 5'5
HE MADE MOVIES THAT IS ALL!
HE WAS JUST AN ACTOR
DO YOU THINK JETY LI WOULD DO ANY GOOD OR HOW ABOUT UMA THURMAN?
SHE IS TRAINED RIGHT?
wrong
SHE IS AN ACTOR
THATS ALL
MAKE MOVIES NOT FIGHT
YOU ARE THE FOOL
Joe Lewis - "Bruce was incredibly strong for his size. He could take a 75lb barbell and from a standing position with the barbell held flush against his chest, he could slowly stick his arms out, lock them and hold the barbell there for 20 seconds, that's pretty damn tough for a guy who at the time only weighed 138lbs. I know 200lb weight lifters who can't do that."
Danny Inosanto - "Bruce had tremendous strength in holding a weight out horizontally in a standing position. I know because I've seen it. He'd take a 125lb barbell and hold it straight out".
well there goes your theory that he was to small
"1958 is also notable as the year when Bruce defeated reigning three year champion, Gary Elms, in the Hong Kong Boxing Championships."
well he wasnt just an actor he did fight too.
for all of you who think he would be takin down easily:
Jesse Glover - "The power that Lee was capable of instantly generating was absolutely frightening to his fellow martial artists, especially his sparring partners, and his speed was equally intimidating. We timed him with an electric timer once, and Bruce's quickest movements were around five hundredths of a second, his slowest were around eight hundredths. This was punching from a relaxed position with his hands down at his sides from a distance between 18-24 inches. Not only was he amazingly quick, but he could read you too. He could pick up on small subtle things that you were getting ready to do and then he'd just shut you down".J
1958 (Age 18): Bruce enters the 1958 Boxing Championships and defeats the reigning three year champion Gary Elms. 1959 (Age 19):
that would the junior college BOXING MATCH(not mma/ or even karate)
we all know how well boxers do in MMA
You are adding nothing to this conversation please exit stage left.
StorminYourman
7/5/07 5:48:04PM
Bruce Lee if alive today and young might have dominated the Featherwieght and under classes.He was only 5'7" and never wieghed more than150 lbs.Leightwieght and above MMAists might just be too powerful for a guy that size since they were cutting down and he would be somewhere high for his build.That being said he would have been awsome in MMA with the amount of talent he had and proper training, who knows?
nWo
7/5/07 6:35:14PM
Bruce Lee never fought(ONE BOXING MATCH WHEN HE WAS 18)
dont you understand HE WAS AN ACTOR NOT A FIGHTER,
to convince you to go watch his movie
many people would say he was a badass(SPIN)
ITS CALLED PROPAGANDA
TANK ABBOTT WOULD KILL BRUCE LEE AS WOULD ANY REAL MIXED MARTIAL ARTIST
"We timed him with an electric timer once"
wow an electric timer huh?
dont you understand HE WAS AN ACTOR NOT A FIGHTER,
to convince you to go watch his movie
many people would say he was a badass(SPIN)
ITS CALLED PROPAGANDA
TANK ABBOTT WOULD KILL BRUCE LEE AS WOULD ANY REAL MIXED MARTIAL ARTIST
"We timed him with an electric timer once"
wow an electric timer huh?
nubby
7/5/07 6:51:54PM
Posted by nWo
Bruce Lee never fought(ONE BOXING MATCH WHEN HE WAS 18)
dont you understand HE WAS AN ACTOR NOT A FIGHTER,
to convince you to go watch his movie
many people would say he was a badass(SPIN)
ITS CALLED PROPAGANDA
TANK ABBOTT WOULD KILL BRUCE LEE AS WOULD ANY REAL MIXED MARTIAL ARTIST
"We timed him with an electric timer once"
wow an electric timer huh?
Find a record of all of Tank Abbots fight's before he entered the UFC. Before the UFC he wasn't a fighter right? Come on man, you sound like a 13 year old.
snydes
7/5/07 7:02:56PM
I have to agree with nWo on this one......
You guys are all Crazy!!!
The guy was a MOVIE STAR!!
You know Van Damme would do that well either even tho he won that Tourny in Blood Sport...
Bruce Lee was nothing more then a Jackie Chan of yester year......They make more MOVIES about the guy after he died..TELLING YOU WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE about how great of a fighter he was(causeing this myth we have today) and you boneheads buy into it!!!
Anyways....
Give me Tank over Lee anyday of the week!
You guys are all Crazy!!!
The guy was a MOVIE STAR!!
You know Van Damme would do that well either even tho he won that Tourny in Blood Sport...
Bruce Lee was nothing more then a Jackie Chan of yester year......They make more MOVIES about the guy after he died..TELLING YOU WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE about how great of a fighter he was(causeing this myth we have today) and you boneheads buy into it!!!
Anyways....
Give me Tank over Lee anyday of the week!
AchillesHeel
7/5/07 8:30:58PM
Posted by snydes
You know Van Damme would do that well either even tho he won that Tourny in Blood Sport...
No, I know Van Damme (in his prime) might do well because of his full-contact kickboxing experience, and because of his knowledge of Muay Thai.
The martial arts actors are often excellent martial artists (and mediocre actors). Jet Li was a Wu Shu forms champion in China. I believe Chuck Norris is the only non-Korean to have been awarded a 4th degree black belt in Tang Soo Do. Steven Seagal is a "Shichi-Dan" (7th-degree black belt) in Aikido. Heck, Dolph Lundgren is a former European heavyweight full-contact karate champion - he actually would break Sylvester Stallone if he wanted to.
Debating whether any of this would translate into MMA is the whole point of this thread, but writing these guys off as "just actors" only shows that you don't know what you're talking about.
Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts for you.
TheLIP
7/5/07 11:04:57PM
I am agreeing with nWo on this one. It's ridiculous to say a Martial Arts Movie Star could do anymore than some flashy strikes before getting taken down and pounded out.
Van Damme, Segal, Lee, Li, etc. They are all great in what they do, and that is perform martial art moves on a silver screen ... Couture, Fedor, Penn, Shogun, etc. They are all great in what they do, and that is fight in a cage or ring.
Van Damme, Segal, Lee, Li, etc. They are all great in what they do, and that is perform martial art moves on a silver screen ... Couture, Fedor, Penn, Shogun, etc. They are all great in what they do, and that is fight in a cage or ring.
nWo
7/5/07 11:29:28PM
So would Mickey Rourke do well?
I mean he kicked a lot of ass as Marv in Sin City, and had a helluva chin!
I mean he kicked a lot of ass as Marv in Sin City, and had a helluva chin!
cmill21
7/5/07 11:34:36PM
One question, was the UFC around when Lee was alive? No. Was there any mma orgs back then? Nope. Why do you think he was in movies? He was an actual MA fighter. Get real here, Lee wasn't "just a movie star". Do your research. He thought up ways to maximis power...his size means nothing. All I have to say to you guys who say he's "just a movie star" do you research, try some of the things he was able to get his body to do(one inch punch, 2 fingerd push ups, unstoppable punch, ect.). See when you guys say he was just an actor it just makes everyone who knows something about Lee ignore any good info you might be putting out there, don't spout out purly ignorant things if you want people to view your points as valid. Does Micky Rourke have any training? your just being ignorant.
ko-kbo130
7/5/07 11:38:00PM
Posted by StorminYourman
Bruce Lee if alive today and young might have dominated the Featherwieght and under classes.He was only 5'7" and never wieghed more than150 lbs.Leightwieght and above MMAists might just be too powerful for a guy that size since they were cutting down and he would be somewhere high for his build.That being said he would have been awsome in MMA with the amount of talent he had and proper training, who knows?
well what do you think football players are timed with when they run theyre 40s?? electric timers because it gives perfect times. and id love to see someone try and get in on a takedown in .05 seconds its just not physicaly possibble.
nWo
7/5/07 11:50:25PM
Posted by cmill21
One question, was the UFC around when Lee was alive? No. Was there any mma orgs back then? Nope. Why do you think he was in movies? He was an actual MA fighter. Get real here, Lee wasn't "just a movie star". Do your research. He thought up ways to maximis power...his size means nothing. All I have to say to you guys who say he's "just a movie star" do you research, try some of the things he was able to get his body to do(one inch punch, 2 fingerd push ups, unstoppable punch, ect.). See when you guys say he was just an actor it just makes everyone who knows something about Lee ignore any good info you might be putting out there, don't spout out purly ignorant things if you want people to view your points as valid. Does Micky Rourke have any training? your just being ignorant.
actually i have several of Mickey's Kickboxing fights
Mickey Rourke (born September 16, 1953 [disputed, 1950 also cited]), is an American actor who has primarily appeared in drama, action, and thriller films. Trained as a boxer in his early years, he had a short stint as a professional boxer in the 1990s.
At the age of 12, Rourke won his first boxing match as a 118 pound bantamweight. Some of his early matches were fought as Andre Rourke. He continued his boxing training at the famed 5th Street Gym in Miami Beach, Florida; joining the Police Athletic League boxing program. In 1969, Rourke, now weighing 140lbs., sparred with former World Welterweight Champion Luis Rodriguez. Rodriguez was the number one rated middleweight boxer in the world, and was training for his match with world champion Nino Benvenuti. Rourke claims to have received a concussion in this sparring match. In 1971, at the Florida Golden Gloves, he received another concussion from a boxing match. He was told by doctors to take a year off and rest, but Rourke decided to retire from the ring. From 1968 to 1972, Mickey Rourke compiled an amateur boxing record of 20-6, with 17 knockouts. He was disqualified 4 times, and lost 2 decisions. At one point, he reportedly scored 12 consecutive first round knockouts. As an amateur, Rourke had been friendly with pro-boxer Tommy Torino. When Rourke decided to return to boxing as a professional, Torino promoted some of Rourke's fights. Rourke was trained by former pro-boxer Freddie Roach at Miami Beach's 5th Street Gym and the Outlaw Boxing Club Gym in Los Angeles. Rourke made $250 for his pro debut, but by the end of his 2nd year of boxing, he earned a million dollars. Rourke appeared on the cover of World Boxing Magazine in June 1994. He sparred with world champions James Toney, John David Jackson, and Tommy Morrision. Rourke wanted to have 16 professional fights and then fight for a world title. However, he retired after 7 bouts and never got his desired title fight. His boxing career resulted in severe facial injuries which required a number of operations to repair his damaged face.
So IMO MICKEY>BRUCE
i got that from a google search
failry easy
bruce is much harder to find any fights(due to lack of any)
can you produce any fights other than A BOXING MATCH WHEN HE WAS 18 for Bruce?
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