Brock Lesnar vs Shane Carwin

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POLL: Who will win ??
Brock Lesnar 33% (13)
Shane Carwin 68% (27)
BlueSkiesBurn
6/4/10 4:09:20PM
So, why isn't your name KowKatcher
cowcatcher
6/4/10 4:10:15PM
LMAO then id be kroatian i guess.
emfleek
6/4/10 4:11:32PM

Posted by cowcatcher

LMAO then id be kroatian i guess.



Or kockmuncher.

cowcatcher
6/4/10 4:12:13PM
5 drops came out there, that was nearly a stream.

by the way heres your lesson in a foreign language today fleek: pusi kurac.

just so you cant say it right to your buddies its pronounced pooshie koorits
BlueSkiesBurn
6/4/10 4:15:36PM

Posted by emfleek

Agreed. "All Hype" (or over-hyped) means you're expected to win championships/dominate and you fall flat on your face. Lesnar came in, was expected to contend and not only did that, but he won the title. The hype that surrounded him was definitely justified.

Ryan Leaf was all hype.

JaMarcus Russell was all hype.

Brian Bosworth was all hype.

Darko Milicic was all hype.

Need I go on?



Ryan Leaf was an epic fail

JaMarcus Russell took the bar Ryan Leaf set and raised it several notches

Darko wasn't as much all hype as he was a victim of Larry Brown's system which wasn't suited for him. I mean, the kid was only 18 I hate that they hyped 18 year olds for the NBA. I'll excuse him.

Also, Cowcatcher, I was flipping through old threads in the wee hours of the morning last night and came across the "change your user name thread" had this rule been instituted, I would insist you change your name to Mousecatcher.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/4/10 4:19:40PM
You can change your MOD sig to MODriah Carey, though.
cowcatcher
6/4/10 4:21:06PM
maybe i will...
emfleek
6/4/10 4:36:35PM

Posted by cowcatcher

pusi kurac.



koji se puši odi u kurac

cowcatcher
6/4/10 4:42:49PM
i didnt think about the fact that you would have a translator online that could fire them back at me, lol.
emfleek
6/4/10 4:43:31PM

Posted by cowcatcher

i didnt think about the fact that you would have a translator online that could fire them back at me, lol.



marcoDGK
6/4/10 6:15:21PM

Posted by cowcatcher
also, ther is no way i would say lesnar is all hype marko, all hes done is go in there and beat established mixed martial artists while being a baby in the sport, he is for real.



I may be exaggerating when I say all hype but I think he is more "hype" than "real". He got beat real quick by Mir the first time. Heath Hearring is far from top competition. That guy is almost like 2 for 1 with his record. There was a big size advantage against Randy Couture. He [rand] then dropped weight class because of the disadvantage in his size in that weight class. The second Mir fight was just a dumb game plan by Mir. He was way over confident and just bombed that fight... same thing he did in the Carwin fight. His game plan was terrible! regardless... I just think that this is going to be the first real test for Lesnar and that's why I think he is over hyped. He is on the cover of the game. He is the poster boy for the HW division. Yeah, he is the champ but I don't think he has fought the top of the HW's and for that I think he is over hyped. Maybe I am just a hater but it's my point of view.

If he beats man handles Carwin, I will stop talking ish on Lesnar.
FireballKid
6/20/10 11:04:55PM
I really think this is a very close matchup but a possible way that Brock MIGHT win is using his wrestling skills. If he stands up with Carwin, he is guaranteed going to be KTFO. Brock has been out for too long and I think the "ring rust"(or cage rust?) is starting to set in. I'm sorry Brock, I'm going Shane Carwin by KO/TKO in the 2nd round.



You had a good run man! :P
BlueSkiesBurn
6/21/10 3:39:26AM
Wrestling might not be Lesnar's ticket to victory either. Remember, they are both accomplished wrestlers. Lesnar a D-1 champ and Carwin a D-2 champ. They wrestled the same years. As Carwin even said in an interview, D-1, D-2, D-3 does not make a difference in college. At the time when they were supposed to fight, Tervel Dlagnev was the number 1 ranked freestyle wrestler and he was a D-2 wrestler. I believe presently it's Les Sigman with Dlagnev just behind him.
Pookie
6/21/10 4:11:38AM
I think brock might be the only person in the division that has the strength to keep carwin on his back. Carwin on the other hand, doesn't have a chance if he chooses to try and outwrestle Lesnar.

On the feet, both hit hard enough to knock out the other. Going to be a fun fight, im favoring lesnar.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/21/10 4:13:43AM
How does Carwin "not have a chance" if he tries to wrestle with Lesnar? What has Lesnar done with wrestling that Carwin hasn't? Aside from winning a WWE championship.
lohmann
6/21/10 4:46:28AM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

How does Carwin "not have a chance" if he tries to wrestle with Lesnar? What has Lesnar done with wrestling that Carwin hasn't? Aside from winning a WWE championship.



Brock Lesnar won an NCAA DIV I championship in 2000 and was a runner-up in 1999. His overall NCAA record was 106-5.

Shane Carwin won an NCAA DIV II championship in 1999 and was a runner-up in 1996 and 1997.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/21/10 4:51:01AM
You're wasting your key-strokes, lohmann. I must have typed that exact same thing over 15 times. Always after the same post by someone "Lesnar will completely out-wrestle Carwin."
Pookie
6/21/10 4:54:18AM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

You're wasting your key-strokes, lohmann. I must have typed that exact same thing over 15 times. Always after the same post by someone "Lesnar will completely out-wrestle Carwin."



Im not saying Lesnar will completely outwrestle Carwin.
Im saying Carwin has absolutely no chance at wrestling down Lesnar.

Lesnar could very well not be able to hold Carwin down himself, but he has a chance at it when virtually no one else does. Thats what im saying.
lohmann
6/21/10 5:02:13AM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

You're wasting your key-strokes, lohmann. I must have typed that exact same thing over 15 times. Always after the same post by someone "Lesnar will completely out-wrestle Carwin."



Your question was what Lesnar has accomplished that Carwin hasn't.

I was posting their credentials, because that's what both have done.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/21/10 5:18:20AM
No, that was my question to Pookie. Lesnar and Carwin are both National Champs but Carwin was 2 time runner up. I already knew the stats you posted, I wanted to see what Pookie would say.

EDIT: I don't see how Lesnar can wrestle down Carwin but Carwin can't do the same. They both wrestled people their size and were both successful at it. They both have the titles to prove it. Randy Couture outwrestled Lesnar. I know he's got an amazing pedigree but the point is that it can be done.

Carwin also doesn't need to wrestle Lesnar down. He just needs to stuff his attempts and land one of those bombs on him. Lesnar has power in his shots but he's not as good of a boxer and doesn't have as much power.
Pookie
6/21/10 5:50:57AM


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
Carwin also doesn't need to wrestle Lesnar down. He just needs to stuff his attempts and land one of those bombs on him. Lesnar has power in his shots but he's not as good of a boxer and doesn't have as much power.




Carwin doesnt need to wrestle Lesnar down at all. I agree. His greatest asset is his power and on the feet he has a better shot at using that power.
Id agree that Lesnar doesnt have as much power, but i also have a nagging suspicion that Carwin wont need to be hit as hard to get finished. This is unsubstantiated, just a hunch. Lesnar has better hand speed.


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

I don't see how Lesnar can wrestle down Carwin but Carwin can't do the same. They both wrestled people their size and were both successful at it. They both have the titles to prove it. Randy Couture outwrestled Lesnar. I know he's got an amazing pedigree but the point is that it can be done.



Couture didnt outwrestle lesnar, and though he proved his technique was far superior, he was still getting ragdolled around for quite a bit.

I dont feel Carwin can wrestle Lesnar down because of how they are both built.

Carwin is explosive as Zangief is Big Hairy and Russian. But explosive muscles tire quicker that athletic bulky muscle does. And thats what carwin is facing, Athletic Bulky muscle. In a wrestling contest Lesnar can provide much more resistance via the size differential than Carwin can, and over extended periods of time, this could play a bigger role on Carwin's already suspect cardio than expected.

Also, the quickness of lesnar's hips tells me something about his ability to prop up and scramble out if he needs to, doing to carwin what carwin did to gonzaga.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/21/10 6:05:05AM
Carwin did get popped in the face pretty hard by Gonzaga and managed to win that fight. Lesnar may have better hand speed but he's a very poor boxer when it comes down to basic fundamentals. I can't count the number of times that Lesnar fully extends himself when he throws one of his wild punches.

Also, Lesnar's cardio doesn't appear to be the best, either. Couture outboxed him, split him open, and Lesnar visibly slowed down. I haven't seen anything out of Carwin that indicates suspect cardio. I don't think that 3:47 into a fight would allow ANYONE to determine how poor or great his cardio actually is. These are just my thoughts.
Pookie
6/21/10 6:09:12AM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

Carwin did get popped in the face pretty hard by Gonzaga and managed to win that fight. Lesnar may have better hand speed but he's a very poor boxer when it comes down to basic fundamentals. I can't count the number of times that Lesnar fully extends himself when he throws one of his wild punches.

Also, Lesnar's cardio doesn't appear to be the best, either. Couture outboxed him, split him open, and Lesnar visibly slowed down. I haven't seen anything out of Carwin that indicates suspect cardio. I don't think that 3:47 into a fight would allow ANYONE to determine how poor or great his cardio actually is. These are just my thoughts.



Very true, but its that explosive muscle man. Even if their cardio is for all arguemental purposes, even, Carwin uses up more energy with his style of fighting and is likely to build up lactic acids in his limbs quicker.

The dudes never been past 3:47(?) seconds into a fight, that does actually tell you a few things about how he'll fight in the championship rounds, 10 to 15 minutes later.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/21/10 6:12:57AM
Oh, I'd completely agree, it could be indicative of how he'll fight in the later rounds. But Carwin is also a finely tuned athletic machine. He's been doing this his whole life and appears to have great success with his form. Aside from being a national champ in college for wrestling he was also an all-american football player. He obviously had the endurance. Since he's graduated he consistently trains with his alma mater's team, assisting in coaching. He's been doing this for a while. Also, I don't think it's that he NEEDS to finish fights that early, I just think that it happens because the dude hits like a brick shithouse.


Also, I don't think this fight is going to the championship rounds no matter WHO wins.
marcoDGK
6/21/10 2:28:07PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
Also, I don't think it's that he NEEDS to finish fights that early, I just think that it happens because the dude hits like a brick shithouse.

Also, I don't think this fight is going to the championship rounds no matter WHO wins.



Seriously, I don't see this going into the championship round either but every time I say that the fight ends up being a boring decision win.
CwB
6/21/10 6:35:33PM
When this fight was originally scheduled (before Brock's health issue) I said this fight was 50-50.

Since that time the only things that have changed are:

-Brock is returning from a long layoff

-Brock is returning from a life threating illness

which tips the scale, for me at least, to 60-40 in favor of Carwin...

I will go out on a limb and say Carwin by 2nd round TKO.
-I believe much of the first round will be fought in the clinch with more focus on positioning then damage, with Brock securing a takedown in the last minute or so but is unable to mount any serious offense. Second round will consist of Carwin keeping his distance until he rocks Brock, clinches and drops him from the clinch.

Ha, this is the most in depth prediction I have ever made = I cant wait to see how completely wrong I am...


marcoDGK
6/21/10 7:57:43PM
IS brocks lay off that big of a deal since he isn't a seasoned fighter? I can see how coming off a life threatning illness as being a problem. How emotionally draining and the process but other than that. Should that be a big deal?
BlueSkiesBurn
6/21/10 8:09:41PM
I think it would be a BIGGER disadvantage since he isn't a seasoned fighter. You have to remember that Brock is, first and foremost, a wrestler. That's where all of his accomplishments lie. If he were more well rounded, I'd be less worried. But, he's a wrestler going into the octagon against a wrestler with striking capabilities. Not to say that Brock doesn't but he's not as well rounded as Carwin. I'm not sure what level, if any, Brock has attained in BJJ but Carwin is a purple belt. It might not be much but Chuck had a pretty impressive run with only a purple belt.
marcoDGK
6/21/10 8:51:28PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

I think it would be a BIGGER disadvantage since he isn't a seasoned fighter. You have to remember that Brock is, first and foremost, a wrestler. That's where all of his accomplishments lie. If he were more well rounded, I'd be less worried. But, he's a wrestler going into the octagon against a wrestler with striking capabilities. Not to say that Brock doesn't but he's not as well rounded as Carwin. I'm not sure what level, if any, Brock has attained in BJJ but Carwin is a purple belt. It might not be much but Chuck had a pretty impressive run with only a purple belt.



I can see how Carwin has an advantage because he has more time to train but at the same time I am sure Brock was training as soon as he was cleared and before he was sick. I'm sure this guy has been training the whole time.
Jackelope
6/21/10 9:03:01PM
Let's not forget the X-factor that is Greg Jackson's planning. I wouldn't be surprised to see something totally unexpected out of Carwin going into this fight. Maybe some leg kicks or maybe Carwin himself going for the takedowns. Who knows? I have given up trying to figure out what game plan Greg Jackson is going to implement for his fighters but almost every time I'm left thinking "duhh... I should have known that all along!"

Lesnar has a million holes in his game or at least questionable regions of his game to choose from. I have no doubt Carwin is going to go in with a plan to exploit one of them. My guess is that since Lesnar's biggest strength is his explosive power Greg Jackson will try to do something to take that away. Whether that means taking out his legs or putting him on his back or maybe even something else I don't know. I'm banking on that being a huge part of the gameplan, though.
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