Brock Lesnar vs Shane Carwin

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POLL: Who will win ??
Brock Lesnar 33% (13)
Shane Carwin 68% (27)
hammerhead1
6/3/10 2:02:35PM
This will be a dream fight in the heavyweight division !!!! SHANE CARWIN ALL THE WAY!!!! Shane Carwin KO/TKO 1st Round within the first minute of the fight
emfleek
6/3/10 2:03:24PM
Moved to the Lounge.
sbulldavid
6/3/10 2:07:46PM
I'm sticking with Lesner, I hate to pick against Carwin but as long as Brock keeps his hands high, I think he'll dominate a wrestling match and wear Carwin down.
Boston617808
6/3/10 2:24:15PM
This is Carwin's all the way! Carwin's wrestling is no joke either so don't bank on Lesnar getting the takedown at will. Plus we will finally get to see Lesnar's chin get tested! I have Shane by TKO/KO in round 1 for this one....WAR CARWIN!
cowcatcher
6/3/10 2:36:47PM
im leaning towards carwin too. the long layoff for brock is the main factor for me, im not sure at all where hes going to be at physically. it probably is a coin flip for who gets on top or lands the first big shot though. its just a great matchup that cant get here fast enough.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/3/10 3:31:57PM
I learned not to bet on someone with ring rust. Carwin will be my pick regardless of who I think would win this fight had they both been active.
postman
6/3/10 4:16:46PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

I learned not to bet on someone with ring rust. Carwin will be my pick regardless of who I think would win this fight had they both been active.



I agree Rampage has really made me belive in Ring rust which I think we should call cage rust since well if let untreated a cage will rust.
Taylor8766
6/3/10 4:46:02PM
Carwin wins via KO first round, enough said.
marcoDGK
6/3/10 6:30:21PM
Carwin is my favorite on this one.

When I break it down/think about it too much, which I have, I see it going to Lesnar.

I think... Lesnar is going to just try to take this to the ground the whole time. Carwin is just going to be defending take down after take down. I don't see Lesnar wanting any of his stand up. Carwin is going to just land something to his dome and defend the take down.

I am hoping Carwin can land a big punch or when Lesnar has him against the cage, reverse it and repeat the Mir fight.

If Lesnar wins, I will give him all the respect. IMO, I this is Lesnars first true test.

can't wait for this one! WAR CARWIN!
Chael_Sonnen
6/3/10 7:00:11PM
Couple of gorillas going at it

Carwin late first rd. tko.
cowcatcher
6/3/10 7:03:46PM

Posted by Chael_Sonnen

Couple of gorillas going at it



cant disagree there, man i miss animal fight threads.
SpiderSilva
6/3/10 7:18:12PM
how many months was it between carwins last two fights? 1 year how long between lesnars fights with courure and mir 8 months both guys didn't show any ring rust here is 2 ways i see this fight going 1 lesnar can and will take carwin down and pound him if gg can take carwin down lesnar will blow though him 2 carwin knocks brocks block off imo this is more likely to happen

1 thing brocks a killer dude will not lose that edge ever i don't expect him to come out with ring rust expect him to come out grab carwin take him down get position and GnP his way to another title defense
BlueSkiesBurn
6/3/10 7:41:52PM
Brock also had major health issues and required surgeries. Carwin was only on the shelf because Lesnar pulled out. Carwin has been training this whole time. Lesnar was hemmed up in hospitals and flying back and forth between specialists. There's a VAST difference between Carwin's layoff and Lesnar's. Carwin was ready to fight immediately that whole year. They just had to wait to see what was gonna happen with Lesnar before they could book a fight for the interim title because they'd already given him a shot. Mir was the major factor there. Mir had fought Congo during that time so Carwin had to wait. JDS and Velasquez weren't yet back then. I wouldn't compared Carwin's layoff to Lesnar's at all.
SpiderSilva
6/3/10 9:23:35PM
i still don't think ring rust will play a factor lesnar will still bully carwin to the ground he isn't a boxer/ standup fighter like rampageplus the weight he lost he put back on and has prob been in the gym for months dude doesn't keep a body like that sitting on his ass and plus i thought he didn't have surgery he was heeled be a miracle in the end carwin is gonna have less chances than ever before I'm looking at it like this whenever a really good wrestler is fighting a stand up fighter I'm gonna take the wrestler 7 out of 10 times carwins gonna have his chances that's for sure base it off of ring rust if you want I'm thinking lesnar right now

edit: didn't lesnar have that illness while he was dominating the HWs I'm thinking he might come back stronger
casketcoin
6/3/10 10:03:36PM
this guy has an idea what is gonna happen
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BlueSkiesBurn
6/3/10 11:25:33PM

Posted by SpiderSilva

I'm looking at it like this whenever a really good wrestler is fighting a stand up fighter I'm gonna take the wrestler 7 out of 10 times carwins gonna have his chances that's for sure base it off of ring rust if you want I'm thinking lesnar right now




Uh, Carwin is a wrestler. With the same accomplishments as Lesnar at that. He just wrestled at Division 2 as opposed to D1. Actually, Carwin was technically more accomplished since he was the Division 2 runner up twice compared to Lesnar D1 runner up one time. Both have a national title, however. On top of that, they wrestled for college at the same time.

They are basically the same person. Lesnar played football, so did Carwin. I don't see how you're picking the "wrestler" by picking Lesnar. Unless you mean Lesnar's time in the WWE and then, yes, Carwin didn't do that.
SpiderSilva
6/4/10 2:57:45PM
really? you mean you haven noticed lesnar use his wrestling ability to takedown and control his opponents? wwe really? dude that's a comment right there its pretty clear lesnar uses his wrestling way more than carwin its also pretty clear carwin prefers to stand and trade punches
BlueSkiesBurn
6/4/10 3:11:01PM
I'm pretty sure that it's not a troll comment. Really, Carwin doesn't use his wrestling? How do you think he reversed Frank Mir up against the cage before he delivered endless hammers of thor to his face? Carwin has boxing ability which is why he uses it. If I could knock someone out less than 4 minutes into a fight I'd use my boxing ability too. Additionally, how do you think that Carwin was able to escape top control from Gonzaga before knocking him out? Just because Carwin isn't taking people down left and right doesn't mean he isn't a wrestler.

All of the ability in the world is there for Carwin to stuff Lesnar's take-downs. Lesnar got dominated in wrestling by a much smaller Randy Couture before he got knocked out. Out wrestling Herring and Mir, who's had problems with larger wrestlers isn't going to sell me on the fact that he can out wrestle someone who's as accomplished a wrestler as he is. Not only was Randy out wrestling Brock he was out striking him as well. Brock does not have solid striking and if Carwin can keep him standing he, OBVIOUSLY, has the ability to finish Lesnar on his feet.
zxandu
6/4/10 3:14:55PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by SpiderSilva

I'm looking at it like this whenever a really good wrestler is fighting a stand up fighter I'm gonna take the wrestler 7 out of 10 times carwins gonna have his chances that's for sure base it off of ring rust if you want I'm thinking lesnar right now




Uh, Carwin is a wrestler. With the same accomplishments as Lesnar at that. He just wrestled at Division 2 as opposed to D1. Actually, Carwin was technically more accomplished since he was the Division 2 runner up twice compared to Lesnar D1 runner up one time. Both have a national title, however. On top of that, they wrestled for college at the same time.

They are basically the same person. Lesnar played football, so did Carwin. I don't see how you're picking the "wrestler" by picking Lesnar. Unless you mean Lesnar's time in the WWE and then, yes, Carwin didn't do that.



Saying that your "picking the wrestler" is like watching watching Rampage vs. Evans and picking the black guy.
emfleek
6/4/10 3:18:39PM

Posted by zxandu

Saying that your "picking the wrestler" is like watching watching Rampage vs. Evans and picking the black guy.



marcoDGK
6/4/10 3:25:57PM
if you guys watch Carwins older fights you can see that he uses his wrestling a lot.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/4/10 3:34:59PM
I was going to say that as well, Marco. I figured I shoot for recent memory, though. Carwin has evolved as a striker with knockout power, something I am not sold that Lesnar has. GnP, although it's a TKO, and knocking out someone like Couture who's suffered some devastating KO's isn't gonna sell me on his KO ability. He hit Mir flush that first fight and also clocked Hearing and was unable to finish either of them. One of those punches from Carwin has finished 8 out of 12 opponents via KO. Much like people are saying that JDS has more than enough ability to work his way out of Nelson's submission attempts and get that fight back to the feet so, too, does Carwin have the ability to either prevent being taken down or work his way out from under Lesnar to get back to his feet. The clear edge on the feet has to go to Carwin in this fight. The wrestling, based of ability and accomplishments by both men, has to be considered a wash.
cowcatcher
6/4/10 3:41:43PM
the stand up advantage is clear, but i think so is the wrestling advantage and it falls lesnars way. lesnar has shown more of his wrestling, and more commitment to using it in the octagon. the advantage may not be as clear cut as the stand up, but to me its a measurable difference that i can see when i watch them in the cage. lets not forget randy was an olympic caliber wrestler, thats the pinnacle, so theres no shame in not being able to take him down.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/4/10 3:47:17PM
I know that Randy is a different beast but I'm looking at what both of these guys have done as wrestlers. On the flip side, Cowcatcher, would you disagree with me if I said that the reason Brock has show such a commitment to his wrestling is because that's the only weapon thus far he's shown that he can use with great effectiveness and technique?

If you watch the fights with Herring and Mir, Lesnar's stand up leaves a tremendous amount to be desired. He fully extends himself when throwing his best punches which, for the record, still haven't knocked anybody out. By doing so, he leaves himself massively exposed for an overhand right or an uppercut if the punch is slipped.

I'm not bashing Lesnar in fact, had he not had those massive health issues and such a long layoff, I would be inclined to pick him in this fight. I am just saying that, PERSONALLY, I haven't seen as much evolution in the MMA game of Lesnar as I have in Carwin.
marcoDGK
6/4/10 3:51:24PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

I was going to say that as well, Marco. I figured I shoot for recent memory, though. Carwin has evolved as a striker with knockout power, something I am not sold that Lesnar has. GnP, although it's a TKO, and knocking out someone like Couture who's suffered some devastating KO's isn't gonna sell me on his KO ability. He hit Mir flush that first fight and also clocked Hearing and was unable to finish either of them. One of those punches from Carwin has finished 11 out of 11 opponents via KO. Much like people are saying that JDS has more than enough ability to work his way out of Nelson's submission attempts and get that fight back to the feet so, too, does Carwin have the ability to either prevent being taken down or work his way out from under Lesnar to get back to his feet. The clear edge on the feet has to go to Carwin in this fight. The wrestling, based of ability and accomplishments by both men, has to be considered a wash.



That's exactly how I feel about it.

Carwin will just be defending and recovering from take down attempts. I had to check this on sherdog but he has 5 out of his 12 wins via Submission. (I know he has had some submissions but I had to double check)

I have said this before and I will say it again. Carwin is a better version of Lesnar. All of the Lesnar nut huggers gave me crap about this a while back but I am standing by it. IF Lesnar wins... I will give him all the respect but for now, I still think Lesnar is all hype.
cowcatcher
6/4/10 3:54:14PM
i cant disagree that wrestling is a much bigger crutch for lesnar or that carwin is much further along as a well rounded mixed martial artist. what i do see in lesnars wrestling is more than what i see in carwins, although granted he doesnt use it as much.what i see lesnar doing in there, after spending the better part of 2 decades in wrestling whether it be as a coach or competitor, is awe inspiring for a guy his size, and considering he hadnt competed in YEARS in wrestling unless it was for the WWE. if there is one guy in mma right now that i wouldnt want to get doubled by its brock because he could down a redwood.

EDIT: carwin is still my pick at this point, but i see an edge for each guy in the 2 departments.

also, ther is no way i would say lesnar is all hype marko, all hes done is go in there and beat established mixed martial artists while being a baby in the sport, he is for real.
jiujitsufreak74
6/4/10 4:03:35PM

Posted by cowcatcher

im leaning towards carwin too. the long layoff for brock is the main factor for me, im not sure at all where hes going to be at physically. it probably is a coin flip for who gets on top or lands the first big shot though. its just a great matchup that cant get here fast enough.



this pretty much sums up how i feel. we don't know how Brock will look after his long lay-off/recovering from his life threatening illness. Carwin proved to me that he is in fact as big and strong as Lesnar (before the Mir fight i thought Lesnar was a bit bigger and stronger)and i thik this fight is going to come down to who has the better technical striking and who is better in the clinch. with the layoff weighing over Brock's head, i'm leaning toward Carwin in this.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/4/10 4:03:37PM
I'm just concerned how effective or gassed he will be because of the health issues he's had.
cowcatcher
6/4/10 4:05:52PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

I'm just concerned how effective or gassed he will be because of the health issues he's had.



as well you should be, and anyone thinking about tossing money on him for that matter. he is a gym rat though so hopefully he comes in at 100%.

sorry i spelled your name wrong in the last post marco, im croatian and we spell it with a k, lol.
emfleek
6/4/10 4:08:28PM

Posted by cowcatcher

also, ther is no way i would say lesnar is all hype marko, all hes done is go in there and beat established mixed martial artists while being a baby in the sport, he is for real.



Agreed. "All Hype" (or over-hyped) means you're expected to win championships/dominate and you fall flat on your face. Lesnar came in, was expected to contend and not only did that, but he won the title. The hype that surrounded him was definitely justified.

Ryan Leaf was all hype.

JaMarcus Russell was all hype.

Brian Bosworth was all hype.

Darko Milicic was all hype.

Need I go on?
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