Will Brock join the list of "Next big things in MMA that didn

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POLL: Is Brock goint to go the next level,or will he join the "hype" list?
Brock will go to the next level and be a champion. 60% (34)
Brock will be like Sapp.Win fights but lose his potential. 12% (7)
He's all hype.We won't be talking about him in 2 years. 16% (9)
undecided. 12% (7)
mrsmiley
11/6/08 11:47:31AM
Just curious to get a general consensus.
Their's been a lot of Brock talk,but I figured I would take on the task of making a comparision between him and all others who have been down the same path.
What path is that?
Basicly a fighter that has an uncalcuable amount of potential,but hasyet to live up to it,or fell short somewhere down the line.
While I would say Brock has a better shot than any of these guys did (or does),I'm just really interested to see what fellow Playgrounders think about this.

Lets start with this guy.Homer Moore.I remember back in the day (and some of you probably will remember too),their was a lot of hype behind Moore.He was at one time one of the biggest 205'ers around and he won his first 10 or 11 fights in a row.I remember hearing talk that this was the dude that was going to come to the UFC and give Tito the beating he deserved.It was just a matter of time.
What happened?
Well he finaly got his chance to prove his worth in the UFC,and though he definently proved he was a tough guy,Evan Tanner showed everyone how to derail a hype train when he slapped Moore in an armbar in under the first minute of the second round.Afterwards he came back in smaller promotions and won his next six bouts.Slowly though the hype he had seemed to dimish more and more.Currently Moore has lost his last 4 bouts.3 by TKO.



Bob Sapp

Bob Sapp, actualy on paper has a good record.9-3.
Not too bad.However,their was a mega amount of hype following Sapp when he made his splash into MMA . Fans speculated that the only reason he subcame to big Nogs' submission skills was a lack of experince.A lot of fans and critics alike had a general agreeing that within 2-3 years Sapp would be unstopable.
So what happened?
Well it became apparent that while Sapp could win fights,he wasn't Championship material.He took on some decent competition,but never anyone that could elevate him to that next level.
Bob Sapp lost his last bout at Strikeforce,in the first round by TKO.
<

We can name a few more,but I'm not going to go into detail.
Kimbo Slice: Okay,okay.We know Kimbo's not on the level of Sapp or Moore,and "us" hardcore fans knew he didn't live up to hype.Bad example,but he's got to be mentioned.
I'm also going to mention Kimo.
I mean he was the first guy to give Royce a tough fight in the UFC,and a lot of people expected big things for him back in the day.

So what do you guys think?
Is Brock going to go to the next level,or will he join the "hype" list?
Homer Moore pic
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seanfu
11/6/08 12:02:27PM
No way Lesnar becomes a washout. Sapp had something mentally missing in the last few fights I saw him in. Kimbo was kind of a never been.

Even if Brock lost the title fight he would probably stand as a top 5 guy for as long as he fights in the UFC (assuming Affliction keeps dibs on the HW division)

You could argue that at the rate he's improving and the level he's at not to get this oppertunity that a loss wouldn't blemish him at all. He could beat everyone but Big Nog. And I think a rematch with Mir would be bad for Mir.

Lesnar's a baby either way. An NCAA champ in a UFC division where that's all you need to be a contender. Give him another year to learn sub defense, maybe some chokes, and a little striking to top hig G&P and you're looking at a scarry guy. No nuthugging, just appreciaton for potential.
grappler0000
11/6/08 1:15:18PM
It's hard to compare a national champion wrestler to a group of guys that aren't even close to be the nations best at...well anything. They are all examples of large and intimidating human beings, but don't offer much else. Most of their memorable moments have been fighting either undersized or underqualified opponents. I won't go into details about all of them, but let's take a look at Sapp. Without his size and power, he would have never been introduced to the sport...he has little to offer otherwise. He has made some interesting fights with some top fighters, but it's always a matter if he can land that big punch before he gasses out. While Brock has size and power, he also has speed, cardio, and discipline. On top of that, Brock seems to take his advancement in the sport to heart, while I swear Sapp actually does windmill punching exercises for training. It's hard to say at this point how far Lesnar will go in the sport, but it's difficult to ignore his potential and aside from some top level submission experts, I don't see too many people that could derail his momentum. I would be quick to question his mental game if he were to lose a couple of fights in a row, but I have a feeling that competing at the national level in college has made him more mentally tough than the average fighter. Will he be the next big thing that didn't pan out? I doubt it. I'm confident that he will succeed in the sport, but as with anyone else, he'll probably have some high and low points in his career.
Aaronno9
11/6/08 1:35:30PM
Brocks just like any other wrestler transitioning into mma to me. He may of left it to late to become i huge force though, i just cant see how hes going to ever beable to beat big nog. Hes on a whole differant level to kimbo though.
higdon10
11/6/08 6:04:01PM

Posted by grappler0000

It's hard to compare a national champion wrestler to a group of guys that aren't even close to be the nations best at...well anything. They are all examples of large and intimidating human beings, but don't offer much else. Most of their memorable moments have been fighting either undersized or underqualified opponents. I won't go into details about all of them, but let's take a look at Sapp. Without his size and power, he would have never been introduced to the sport...he has little to offer otherwise. He has made some interesting fights with some top fighters, but it's always a matter if he can land that big punch before he gasses out. While Brock has size and power, he also has speed, cardio, and discipline. On top of that, Brock seems to take his advancement in the sport to heart, while I swear Sapp actually does windmill punching exercises for training. It's hard to say at this point how far Lesnar will go in the sport, but it's difficult to ignore his potential and aside from some top level submission experts, I don't see too many people that could derail his momentum. I would be quick to question his mental game if he were to lose a couple of fights in a row, but I have a feeling that competing at the national level in college has made him more mentally tough than the average fighter. Will he be the next big thing that didn't pan out? I doubt it. I'm confident that he will succeed in the sport, but as with anyone else, he'll probably have some high and low points in his career.



Perfectly said.
Faze
11/6/08 6:51:18PM
Sylvia knocked big nog silly. Sorry to say Lesnar could easily KO/TKO nog chin or not...Who else has ever broke someones face with one punch?? Herrings orbital bone was next to shattered after that one punch. On the chin that punch would have KO'd and broke every single person it landed on's jaw.
Wolfenstein
11/6/08 9:43:29PM

Posted by Faze

Sylvia knocked big nog silly. Sorry to say Lesnar could easily KO/TKO nog chin or not...Who else has ever broke someones face with one punch?? Herrings orbital bone was next to shattered after that one punch. On the chin that punch would have KO'd and broke every single person it landed on's jaw.



Chris Leben hit Benji Radach so hard his jaw was broken so severely that he was out of MMA for two years.

It's possible Brock could knock out Nog but I would doubt it as Nog's boxing is a few levels above Brock at this point in his career.

Brock will be a top guy for a long time to come. I think the championship though is going to elude him for a while, because his sub defense is going to take a while to build up. I think anyone with a decent chin and good jiujitsu are going to give him trouble.
cmill21
11/7/08 2:27:22AM

Posted by Faze

Sylvia knocked big nog silly. Sorry to say Lesnar could easily KO/TKO nog chin or not...Who else has ever broke someones face with one punch?? Herrings orbital bone was next to shattered after that one punch. On the chin that punch would have KO'd and broke every single person it landed on's jaw.



Cro Cop broke both Sapp and Sakuraba's orbital bones, one of which he was wearing 10oz gloves. Nog Has been hit by people like Sapp(say what you want dude can hit), Fedor(one of the hardest hitters in mma IMO), Cro Cop(K-1 and nothing hits harder then the left foot), as well as Tim(when did he knock him silly though?). To say Brock would easily T/KO him is rediculous, since the one thing Nog has proven over and over is that no one on earth can KO him easily, you have to hit him with a bat, a truck and a tank before that man will quit.
haggiswashere
11/7/08 2:35:03AM
only time will tell. part of me is angry he got into the ufc so easily when there are a ton of guys who deserved to be on the roster way more (same with a title shot) but if they would have made him do it the hard way like everyone else he might have been too old by the time he got to the ufc. i hated him at the start of this whole thing but he is growing on me. i need to see more.
fullerene
11/7/08 9:02:17AM
I expect him to be gone and forgotten in two years. He hasn't shown a lot of committment to his previous endeavors (amateur wrestling, pro wrestling, pro football) despite having talent.

I think Mark Kerr will end up being a more comparable comparison than Bob Sapp, but I don't expect Lesnar to have as long a career as either of them.
mentalcase
11/7/08 9:55:33AM
Anyone got a link to homer moore Vs evan tanner i want to see this fight?!
mkiv9secsupra
11/7/08 11:51:21AM
Im still undecided. His performance against Couture will be the fight that will decide for me.
Jackelope
11/7/08 12:49:55PM

Posted by fullerene

I expect him to be gone and forgotten in two years. He hasn't shown a lot of committment to his previous endeavors (amateur wrestling, pro wrestling, pro football) despite having talent.

I think Mark Kerr will end up being a more comparable comparison than Bob Sapp, but I don't expect Lesnar to have as long a career as either of them.



I think he'll make a splash and then cash out, too. Not sure if it'll only be 2 years, but I expect at some point he's going to hang them up "before his time"

When I say "before his time" I think it's when he's figured out and sprawl and brawlers/jiu jitsu wizards take the fight right out of him. The guy won't develop a refined stand up game, and he won't develop a good jiu jitsu game IMO.
Kracker_Jap
11/7/08 2:13:20PM

Posted by Wolfenstein


Posted by Faze

Sylvia knocked big nog silly. Sorry to say Lesnar could easily KO/TKO nog chin or not...Who else has ever broke someones face with one punch?? Herrings orbital bone was next to shattered after that one punch. On the chin that punch would have KO'd and broke every single person it landed on's jaw.



Chris Leben hit Benji Radach so hard his jaw was broken so severely that he was out of MMA for two years.

It's possible Brock could knock out Nog but I would doubt it as Nog's boxing is a few levels above Brock at this point in his career.

Brock will be a top guy for a long time to come. I think the championship though is going to elude him for a while, because his sub defense is going to take a while to build up. I think anyone with a decent chin and good jiujitsu are going to give him trouble.



I remember when that happened it was a big hurt here in the 360........

I give it to you that any with a decent chin aand good JJ would give hime trouble (kind of sounds like Herring)

But doesn't Brocks speed and athleticism pose more of a threat????

To beat Brock you are going to need the worlds best chin and the best JJ
Jackelope
11/7/08 2:47:38PM
I don't believe you'll need the world's best chin at all. Nor the world's best JJ. Just some damn good JJ (good enough to overcome a huge strength disadvantage)

A guy like Brock who is tense on the feet (just watch his footwork and lack of relaxation) only needs to be evaded and worn on for so long before his punching power is gone. Of course he's freakishly strong, but he lacks the technique to score a second or third round one punch KO against a good chin IMO. If somebody can keep it standing and wear him out (that will be the hard part) I think it would be easy to pick him apart on the feet. They've just got to sprawl and brawl their ass off with some fancy footwork.

His cardio was impressive last time out, but I'm telling you when someone makes him work long enough and hard enough those muscles will turn on him. It's been proven time and again that big muscles require big oxygen, and I think it's only a matter of time until someone figures that out and applies enough technique to take advantage of it. Is Randy the one? I don't know, but I know some people I could see doing it to him - Cain Velasquez and Big Nog come to mind.
Kracker_Jap
11/7/08 3:55:43PM
One thing I don't think people give Brock enough credit for is he has a fighters heart and great willingness to learn... Look at Kos, for example a great wrestler that we have all seen grow leaps and bounds from his days on tuff....

The Difference Between Kos and Brock is that Brock is at the top of his weight classes food chain when it comes to natural gifts from GOD, he has the size strength and SPEED, and so far he has shown no weakness in his cardio....

His weakness is experience, but he does have the experience to know what it takes to become the best in something..... He will in the end, win or lose next fight not leave us with a boring fight

copcopps
11/7/08 4:14:14PM
He's gonna win fights but will lose potential. He's good but from the Herring fight he showed no JJ skills
mrsmiley
11/7/08 6:21:28PM

Posted by grappler0000

It's hard to compare a national champion wrestler to a group of guys that aren't even close to be the nations best at...well anything. They are all examples of large and intimidating human beings, but don't offer much else. Most of their memorable moments have been fighting either undersized or underqualified opponents. I won't go into details about all of them, but let's take a look at Sapp. Without his size and power, he would have never been introduced to the sport...he has little to offer otherwise. He has made some interesting fights with some top fighters, but it's always a matter if he can land that big punch before he gasses out. While Brock has size and power, he also has speed, cardio, and discipline. On top of that, Brock seems to take his advancement in the sport to heart, while I swear Sapp actually does windmill punching exercises for training. It's hard to say at this point how far Lesnar will go in the sport, but it's difficult to ignore his potential and aside from some top level submission experts, I don't see too many people that could derail his momentum. I would be quick to question his mental game if he were to lose a couple of fights in a row, but I have a feeling that competing at the national level in college has made him more mentally tough than the average fighter. Will he be the next big thing that didn't pan out? I doubt it. I'm confident that he will succeed in the sport, but as with anyone else, he'll probably have some high and low points in his career.



Nicely put.
Though I will play devils advocate and bring up someone who sounded just like that when they first got in the sport.A guy,for who his time was about physicaly one of the fittest,and biggest guys to ever step into the cage or ring.
In wrestling he was a High School State Champion.
He was also a Division one champion,who beat out mister Randy Couture for the honer.
This guy was also the Senior Freestyle wrestling champion.
Even more accomplished than Brock Lesnar as a wreslter.
Who is he?

Mark Kerr.

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shiz-nitzel
11/7/08 6:33:32PM

Posted by Faze

Who else has ever broke someones face with one punch??



Cro-cop broke sapp's orbital bone with a jab.
Jackelope
11/7/08 6:46:06PM

Posted by mrsmiley


Posted by grappler0000

It's hard to compare a national champion wrestler to a group of guys that aren't even close to be the nations best at...well anything. They are all examples of large and intimidating human beings, but don't offer much else. Most of their memorable moments have been fighting either undersized or underqualified opponents. I won't go into details about all of them, but let's take a look at Sapp. Without his size and power, he would have never been introduced to the sport...he has little to offer otherwise. He has made some interesting fights with some top fighters, but it's always a matter if he can land that big punch before he gasses out. While Brock has size and power, he also has speed, cardio, and discipline. On top of that, Brock seems to take his advancement in the sport to heart, while I swear Sapp actually does windmill punching exercises for training. It's hard to say at this point how far Lesnar will go in the sport, but it's difficult to ignore his potential and aside from some top level submission experts, I don't see too many people that could derail his momentum. I would be quick to question his mental game if he were to lose a couple of fights in a row, but I have a feeling that competing at the national level in college has made him more mentally tough than the average fighter. Will he be the next big thing that didn't pan out? I doubt it. I'm confident that he will succeed in the sport, but as with anyone else, he'll probably have some high and low points in his career.



Nicely put.
Though I will play devils advocate and bring up someone who sounded just like that when they first got in the sport.A guy,for who his time was about physicaly one of the fittest,and biggest guys to ever step into the cage or ring.
In wrestling he was a High School State Champion.
He was also a Division one champion,who beat out mister Randy Couture for the honer.
This guy was also the Senior Freestyle wrestling champion.
Even more accomplished than Brock Lesnar as a wreslter.
Who is he?

Mark Kerr.




Drugs and partying is what stopped Mark Kerr, though. Not sure if Brock is too young to fall into that trap or not. (He's definitely already had fame, so you know that probably won't lead him into it)

But yeah, Mark Kerr is immediately who comes to mind when I think of Brock Lesnar and "potential"
bls1919
11/7/08 7:30:26PM
It's a big waiting game. Brock IMO is going to be out boxed by Randy, and lose. After that we'll get a good look at how he rebounds.
mrsmiley
11/7/08 9:04:24PM
Yeah I think for a lot of people the Couture fight will really prove were Brock is,and were he could potentialy be in the upcoming years.I know on Inside MMA Randy said he's been training with Shane Carwin and working off his back,so I think he'll come pretty well prepared.And he should,because Brock isn't going to be a cakewalk.
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