3 Breaks in 1 round?

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loonytnt
1/15/12 12:21:56AM
Johnson did not make weight but did they really have to stand it up 2 times and break off the cage once? This is mma not boxing let them fight. Not saying he was going to do anything or win but...We all knew he would gas, he worked hard to get it to the mat and then 10sec later "stand it up" didnt like the ref's tonight.
tn_rebel
1/15/12 12:37:26AM
i agree... this looked bad
FastKnockout
1/15/12 12:38:41AM
Agreed. Doesn't look good, but it happens.
tmas
1/15/12 12:45:31AM
yea was total bs
Kpro
1/15/12 12:45:42AM
Yeah, only the fighter should be able to be horrible at doing whats clearly stated in their contracts, not the refs.




Karma.
Twenty20Dollars
1/15/12 12:49:46AM
who was the ref?
State_Champ
1/15/12 12:51:02AM
Rumble did little once on the ground. And he didn't seem to be trying to do much.
Yes, he got two or three good punches off the initial takedown. However, the following takedowns/grapples did not result in much action and neither did it appear that Johnson was about to force much action.

I'm not going to say that the stand ups were bad, or that they were good. I don't know. I only saw the fight once so I haven't really looked at it too closely. But those stand-ups were not entirely unwarranted, in my opinion.

I think Johnson's strategy was begging for the ref to stand it up; whether or not it should have been stood up, I still think Johnson made the opportunity for the ref to implement the dreaded stand-up from ground.

Edit: Thinking about it more, the fighters were stood up a bit quickly. Still, I think Anthony Johnson shares some blame for that.
Budgellism
1/15/12 12:52:52AM

Posted by Twenty20Dollars

who was the ref?



Dan Miragliotta
Jesse_Canadian_MMA
1/15/12 12:54:34AM
The stand ups we're way too fast. I mean Johnson isnt known for submissions or even really doing much to improve a position but the ref shouldve let it ride out a bit more. The stand ups we're too fast...There was a few annoying things about this event but whatever.
DancingDoll
1/15/12 1:05:03AM
Ok... I'll admit... I think the stand-ups were surprisingly fast... but I watched every single one with a huge smile on my face. Vitor all the way, baby!

The ref calls were pretty sketchy all night (ie. E. Silva getting royally screwed) so I was more than happy to enjoy some 'karmic calls' on this fight.
Twenty20Dollars
1/15/12 1:09:46AM
I think Dan is always quick to pull the trigger or at least that's what I thought in the past sometimes.

I was going to say if it was Leon and I think he's from the UK and they are stand up guys there, but nvm.
trevail
1/15/12 2:01:35AM
Here's my theory.....

Yesterday Dan poisons Johnson causing him to fall ill and need to rehydrate therefore he does not make weight and forfeits 20% of his purse to Belfort, who then hands it over to Mirgliota if he does what he can to keep the fight standing.

CONSPIRACY!

Total joke btw so dont bitch at me in the thread
40ouncetpkid
1/15/12 4:03:04AM
You could tell that shit was bias as hell.
Kpro
1/15/12 4:12:12AM
Maybe a fighter should do his job properly if he expects a ref to do his job properly.





Karma.
40ouncetpkid
1/15/12 4:54:08AM
Because that's fair? I picked aj originally I am a big fan, but I won't argue that the fight would have been any different. He was clearly fatigued as I expected from not having a day off from weight cutting. He had no energy left after the first two takedowns.

All I'm saying though is the man's jobs on the line he atleast has to be exciting in a win anyway to keep his job atleast give the man a damn chance.
kopower
1/15/12 5:18:46AM
I thought the stand ups were pretty quick also. Maybe Dana had some words with Dan before the fight
Kpro
1/15/12 6:33:04AM

Posted by Kpro

Maybe a fighter should do his job properly if he expects a ref to do his job properly.




Posted by 40ouncetpkid

Because that's fair?



It was a tongue-in-cheek comment so I'm not even implying the ref `didn't` do his job properly. But yeah, that does sound fair to me. You reap what you sow.

1) If a fighter on the bottom doesn't allow his opponent to mount an offense from full guard (a neutral position), while outstriking him from the bottom, while top opponent makes no attempt to improve position or outwork the fighter on the bottom. The ref calls for the break after the bottom fighter has just attempted the last half dozen strikes. is that not a fair standup?

2) When a fighter stuffs a takedown against the cage and the one who attempted the takedown almost completely stops his workrate against the cage and is unable to, or doesn't attempt to, even grasp his hands around a single leg, let alone the body. Thus leaving a fighter who successfully defended a takedown, also not having to defend any offense from the fighter who failed on the takedown attempt. Is that not a fair break?

3) Obvious early stand-up. Even though he wasn't in a dominant position or attempting to get to one, Anthony was active enough that it should not have been stood up. It'd be hard for anybody who has watched enough MMA to not disagree with this stand-up.

Those are the three breaks, and it all depends on the person. I personally don't like stand-ups as I like to see the fighter work if he can get it there, however when a fighter fails to work, or uses top position as a breather, who am I to armchair quarterback the refs call. If you're staying in full guard (again a `neutral` position), you better be dropping some ground and pound or attempting a pass, not getting outstruck from the bottom and/or using it as a breather.

Some will agree with none, some with all 3, some with 1 or 2. It's all personal opinion and interpretation of the unified rules or bias towards certain styles.

Fact is there were no breaks in this fight where Johnson had a positional advantage or was attempting to get to one when the fight was restarted. Two of the three breaks involved Belfort outworking Anthony leading up to the break, and then the third one that was obviously early. Who am I to criticize a refs judgment when all breaks were in a neutral position, and 2 of the 3 while Belfort was outworking Johnson and at no positional disadvantage?

Long story short, one definitely shouldn't have been a break if we are going by the wording in the unified rules, or at least my interpretation of them. Maybe if that stand-up didn't happen Rumble would've won, unfortunately we'll never know. As a fight fan I wish that last stand-up hadn't happened, it was completely uncalled for. But I don't see it as unfair that Anthony misses weight for the 3rd time by 11 pounds (most in the UFC ever?) after being forced to move up in weight so it wouldn't happen again and he gets a single bad stand-up. Not saying I find the last stand-up right, I'd prefer it hadn't happened. But in the context of Anthony Johnson's inability to do his job description, yes I find it fair. That's karma.

Source for my analysis of the 3 breaks: With the 24 hour free replay on Xbox 360, I've watched the fight a half dozen times.

for not showing bias as a big fan.
prozacnation1978
1/15/12 10:50:29AM
That fast breaks were bullshit
I would love to hear Dan excuse for it
Franklinfan47
1/15/12 1:14:00PM
Quick stand up? Maybe.

Sympathy from me? Not in the least.

War Belfort
tn_rebel
1/15/12 1:59:31PM

Posted by Kpro

Maybe a fighter should do his job properly if he expects a ref to do his job properly.





Karma.



So your saying if a fighter fails to make weight all rules go out the window? If i wanted to see wins and losses decided by the refs i would have been watching the NBA. I have seen GSP lay on people for days without being stood up. It was pretty obvious to me that Dan had specific instructions to keep this one standing.
loonytnt
1/15/12 2:03:49PM
This is just imo, but mma is mma, if a fighter wants to get it to the ground they should be able to work from there.
Kpro
1/15/12 3:22:54PM

Posted by tn_rebel

So your saying if a fighter fails to make weight all rules go out the window? If i wanted to see wins and losses decided by the refs i would have been watching the NBA. I have seen GSP lay on people for days without being stood up. It was pretty obvious to me that Dan had specific instructions to keep this one standing.



There's a much longer post above for you to read that would've made this post you made unnecessary! Always good to read all posts, especially in short thread like this. Not just the ones that are one sentence long. Any question you could possibly have is answered there.

And saying that Dan had specific instructions to keep it standing is a line that I would tip-toe very carefully on if I were you. It's ok to think it, and that's fine, quite a few do, but I wouldn't be saying it's obvious that there was fight-fixing going on in the UFC, unless you're excited to find out what a ban is. Tread carefully. Just some advice for you buddy
prophecy033
1/15/12 4:23:03PM

Posted by DancingDoll
Vitor all the way, baby!

I think I love you
prophecy033
1/15/12 4:27:03PM

Posted by Franklinfan47

Quick stand up? Maybe.

Sympathy from me? Not in the least.

War Belfort

prophecy033
1/15/12 4:31:48PM

He was clearly fatigued as I expected from not having a day off from weight cutting
posted by 40ouncetpkid

When did this happen? He wasn't cutting weight for most of those 2 days
tn_rebel
1/15/12 4:41:28PM

Posted by Kpro


Posted by tn_rebel

So your saying if a fighter fails to make weight all rules go out the window? If i wanted to see wins and losses decided by the refs i would have been watching the NBA. I have seen GSP lay on people for days without being stood up. It was pretty obvious to me that Dan had specific instructions to keep this one standing.



There's a much longer post above for you to read that would've made this post you made unnecessary! Always good to read all posts, especially in short thread like this. Not just the ones that are one sentence long. Any question you could possibly have is answered there.

And saying that Dan had specific instructions to keep it standing is a line that I would tip-toe very carefully on if I were you. It's ok to think it, and that's fine, quite a few do, but I wouldn't be saying it's obvious that there was fight-fixing going on in the UFC, unless you're excited to find out what a ban is. Tread carefully. Just some advice for you buddy



Maybe you should re-read my post because obvious "to me" might be different than obvious "to you". And not once did i mention someone fixing the winner of the fight. I simply stated that it appeared as if someone wanted to see fireworks instead of a wrestling match. This is not the first time i have seen you threaten someone with a ban for having a different opinion than you. So my advice to you is to lighten up, Buddy.
Kpro
1/15/12 4:49:44PM

Posted by tn_rebel


Posted by tn_rebel

It was pretty obvious to me that Dan had specific instructions to keep this one standing.



I simply stated that it appeared as if someone wanted to see fireworks instead of a wrestling match.



What exactly do you think fight-fixing entails?
tn_rebel
1/15/12 4:56:28PM

Posted by Kpro


Posted by tn_rebel


Posted by tn_rebel

It was pretty obvious to me that Dan had specific instructions to keep this one standing.



I simply stated that it appeared as if someone wanted to see fireworks instead of a wrestling match.



What exactly do you think fight-fixing entails?



sports fixing occurs as a match is played to a completely or partially pre-determined result
Kpro
1/15/12 5:04:12PM
Any illegal activities by those involved that may sway the result. Dan was a ref in the ring, and to suggest he was obviously told to stand them up quickly every time, would be an illegal request and activity.

Also, I've never threatened to ban someone ever. I'm not a mod so you're probably confused, judging by your posts, very confused.

In fact I occasionally let people know when they are approaching the line on matters like fixed fights and bashing fighters so that they `don't` get banned, just as I am doing with you. Right now. Sounds like the opposite of a threat, no?
tn_rebel
1/15/12 5:17:24PM

Posted by Kpro

Any illegal activities by those involved that may sway the result. Dan was a ref in the ring, and to suggest he was obviously told to stand them up quickly every time, would be an illegal request and activity.

Also, I've never threatened to ban someone ever. I'm not a mod so you're probably confused, judging by your posts, very confused.

In fact I occasionally let people know when they are approaching the line on matters like fixed fights and bashing fighters so that they `don't` get banned, just as I am doing with you. Right now. Sounds like the opposite of a threat, no?



Well i appreciate the concern but i don't think the result was swayed whatsoever. Rumble was gonna gas no matter where the fight took place. You posted "Maybe a fighter should do his job properly if he expects a ref to do his job properly." That to me suggest fixing the outcome of the fight more than anything i said. Maybe Dan wanted to see fireworks or maybe he wanted to show the fans fireworks. All i know is that I have watched fights where i have begged for a stand up and all 3 stand ups in this fight seemed extremely premature to me.
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